Just before I relocated down to the coast back in 2004, a couple of my good friends John and Matt made one of those rare Barn Finds, and managed to uncover a wreck of what was once a Beach Buggy, and as I was to be moving a mere few hundred yards from the beach, I was told over the phone that I ought to take it with me. This all sounded really good untill they showed me the pile of rust and chunks of fibreglass that had been sitting around and decaying for many, many years, and after some lengthy research towards obtaining those all important registration documents, it got me thinking: This could probably be one of the most ambitious projects that I could undertake - to build an entire car from scratch. As this was to be a pure plaything, timescale was not important, so what you see here is an ongoing project that I have spent a few hours on here and there as time has allowed.
Hustler GT
The Hustler GT is one of the few Beach Buggies that was produced in the UK between 1970 and 1972 by a company called Essex Proto Conversions. Only around 50 of them were ever built and there are only a handfull that have survived, making this quite a rare vehicle in the Beach Buggy world. One of its admirers was Diana, Princess of Wales, who owned a 1971 registered version.
The Chassis
This particular car started its life as a 1966 Volkswagen Beetle, and back in the early 70`s, somebody decided to unbolt the VW bodyshell to reveal a chassis similar to this. I say similar, because what is not so obvious to those outside of the Buggy fraternity, is that the chassis has then been cut in half, shortened by 12 inches, and then welded back together.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy1.jpg)
2 Cars Welded Together !
But instead of using the 1966 rear half of the chassis, it was decided to junk this and weld on the rear chassis section of a much later car instead. Unlike the earlier versions, some of the later Beetles had a preferred independant rear suspension setup that would give much better off road capability.
A true cut and shut job !!
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy2.jpg)
Rolling Chassis
And it will not have escaped your attention, that every single nut and bolt has been removed, cleaned and restored to make this rolling chassis in a far better condition now than it ever was when it left the factory all those years ago.
Thankfully Beetle spares are still plentifull and relatively inexpensive to obtain.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy3.jpg)
Taking Shape
Amongst the parts I had, was a very heavy (and very bent) roll cage, but I decided to initially fit it along with the steering column so that I could at least start to see where things were going to line up.
I also managed to salvage a pair of seats from a Porsche 944 that was being broken.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy4.jpg)
10 Years in a field
I was told about a 1300 engine that had been sitting in a field for 10 years, and although most would have run away from something as rusty as this, what you need to bear in mind was that it was the third engine I had tried, and this initially looked in far better condition than the other two !!
It just about turned over by hand, looked to be complete, and more importantly, it was full of oil and not orange rusty water
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy5.jpg)
And get it going I did!
I can`t say it was the easiest engine I have ever coaxed into life, but there were enough rusty spares from the other two engines to be able to roughly cobble something together to see if it would run. But I had not envisaged just how noisy those exhausts were going to be.
With the engine in place, my tubular framed vehicle was now starting to take on a whole new look.
MAD MAX - Eat Your Heart Out !!
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy6.jpg)
So this is an update into how it used to be, the first time you restored it. This could be a long one, because isn't it now going through it's second restoration?
Yep, (bursting into song)
Lets start from the very beginning, as its a very good place to start
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/hammered.gif)
Smashed to pieces
The bodyshell, shown here upside down, was in a terrible state, and had been broken and split in just about every direction. The shell was virtually rebuilt using many layers of fiberglass matting and lots of resin
The side pods are from a different vehicle, but I decided to attatch them to give the bodyshell back some of its missing strength down the sides.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy7.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy8.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy9.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy10.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy11.jpg)
Gel Coat
Once the fibreglass had cured, a couple of layers of Gel Coat were liberally applied. This is very similar to a mixture of coloured bodyfiller and resin, and although it went on very lumpy with the brush, it can be sanded back and polished to give a very smooth and durable finish. If you are considering doing it this way though, please don`t underestimate how tough that gel coat is and how much sanding is involved.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy12.jpg)
Mounting The Bodyshell
After carefully lining it up, the bodyshell was then bolted on to the chassis.
Whilst everything else is being trial fitted, much of the time will now be spent leaning on the panels, so it has been decided that the remaining Gel Coat will not be applied until I am sure that everything is in its correct place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy13.jpg)
Electrickery
One thing I did not want was old fashioned 1966 electrics. I wanted a state of the art keyless ignition system, full digital dash and electrics from the 21st century.
So I simply designed and drew out an entire vehicle electrical system on a bit of paper and then built it.
The petrol pipe filler that you can see from the corner of the tank was going to prove to be a major problem later on.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy14.jpg)
Unmistakeably a Hustler GT
The rest of the Gel Coat was applied and the front section was fitted. Some Beach Buggies are quite difficult to identify, but this one, with its trademark headlights from an old Mini is unmistakeable for anything else.
The moulded in windscreen was originally amongst the debris that I had initially purchased, and although heavily scratched and marked, had remained in one piece.
And that was going to be major problem No. 2
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy15.jpg)
Ready for a Road Test
The Buggy was now virtually complete and ready for a road test. As I was not sure if anything was going to fall off, or problems that may arise, I decided to leave it in the rough Gel Coat finish until I was satisfied that all was Ok.
Off it went for its first MOT
And it PASSED first time !!! (http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy16.jpg)
Now that I had a valid MOT certificate, I could take full advantage of both the Historic Vehicle Tax Exemption due to its age, and the cheap classic car insurance, making it a very cheap car to use on the road. Now that I could road test it, I could make some much needed improvements and sort out some of the teething problems that were starting to arise that was inevitable with a project of this scale. But untill it has proven itself, it will remain in the Gel Coat finish, and I`m so glad that it did, because if I had finished the bodywork and painted it now, it would have been a disaster.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy17.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy18.jpg)
Don`t ask THAT question !
Generally speaking, Beach Buggy owners are amongst the friendliest and most chilled out group of people that you could ever meet, but they do get really annoyed when they are asked the same old question:
"Can you use it on the Beach?"
No, Stupid ! Its a car ! And apart from Messrs Clarkson, Hammond and May, when did you last see a car dodging the sandcastles on the Beach?
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy19.jpg)
I must admit, re-creating this build thread has prompted me to go through loads of old photographs and articles from over the years, and trying to get this build thread in sequential order is proving to be quite a challenge, (but good fun as well !)
Found a picture of the Buggy on its first proper event outing, Dubs at the Beach, 2007 - to be fair it wasn`t much of an outing as I could have pushed it the 400 yards down the road to the seafront !!
::)
Amazed how different it was back then
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/DATB07/DATB071.jpg)
buggy history and evolution is interesting Dave and others can use it for reference
Its 2008, and the Buggy has beeen on the road for nearly 18 months now. Yes, there have been a few niggles along the way. Yes, its a bit rough, but bear in mind that what you see here has been done on the cheap - so far I have not yet spent over £750 from purchase to road legal, and I am pretty well chuffed to have achieved that.
I managed to pick up a set of 8x15 chrome wheels from a guy up the road, and although they don`t match the Wellers on the front, at least all four corners are now shiney.
The mirrors were a big mistake though, cannot see a damn thing out of them. But that wasn`t my only big mistake this year - the other was that bloomin bimini style roof. If you haven`t yet got around to weather protection, then you may well have considered doing what I did here - attatched at the front, and then used a couple of bungees at the back - (kept the rain off though)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/bimini.jpg)
Problem is that when driving along, the roof panel "bounces" in the wind, and if travelling at speed, can snap back down so hard that it cracks the top of your head every few seconds. I had to pull over on the motorway and remove it, as I was starting to suffer from concussion !!
My list of "niggles" are increasing, and although I managed to get a car on the road for next to nothing, I think I now need to spend some money in order to get a bit more enjoyment from it, but at least I now have a sound "basis" for a project vehicle. Time for a change in direction.
Houston . . We have a problem . . (Actually we have a few - Time to sort out the Niggles!)
One of the other reasons that I put off finishing the bodywork, is that I fully understood the concept of trial and error, and no matter how well you think you have planned things and looked at them, when it comes to trying them out for real, things may not work the way you had planned them to.
Take for instance my initial trip to the MOT station in 2006 - I had spent many weeks pouring petrol into the Buggy and moving it around the yard, and had not envisaged that when I pulled up at a petrol station that the pump nozzle would not fit the right angled filler neck and would take 10 minutes to fill.
Remedy: Remove the bonnet, cut and weld a new flange onto the fuel tank (yes, I did say weld a fuel tank) then find that the inside of the tank is rusty, buy a new tank and relocate the fuel filler to the centre of the bonnet.
The next problem wasn`t spotted until that fatefull MOT drive either. Now, I have climbed in and out of that car more times than I care to mention, but its not until I finally settled myself down into a nice comfortable position for driving until the really obvious was spotted: The height of the roll bar at the front was so low that it obscured my forward vision, and I couldn`t actually see out of the window unless I slouched down into the seat. Not such an easy fix that one, and despite having some really comfortable Porsche 944 seats, I was getting a real pain in my neck when driving.
But the main problem I faced was that windscreen. It was very scratched and marked from day one, and although the MOT guy raised a few eyebrows, he reluctantly let it go, but it was obvious that I really should replace the glass at some point. Problem being, that the donor windscreen is documented in a book as having come from a Fiat 500/600 from the late fifties, and they are not exactly common these days. In fact the Fiat owners club are buying them up to keep their own cars alive, and god help anybody who did what I did, and ask them to part with one for a kit car. I`m not scared of many things, but ran for my life on that occasion. But the measurements I took from a Museum car didn`t look right either, and as it was curved in two directions, having a one off made was prohibitively expensive. The only option left was to chop it all off, and use the standard Manx style windscreen as found on the modern Buggies. As I had nothing to bolt it to, I decided to go all out and have a new (taller) roll cage constructed from stainless steel and then I could bolt the screen directly to that.
The Cost of the car has just doubled !
Having a cage made from Stainless, and a brand new screen was not cheap. In fact these two items alone cost me as much again as the entire car had so far - but that said, money very well spent I think.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20091.jpg)
A big gap
With the roll cage expertly built and the windscreen now mounted, you can see there is a bit of a gap along the top of the bonnet and I am concerned that it may cause a bit of a draft. You can also see where the fuel filler has been relocated as well. The really eagle eyed amongst you may notice that the headlights have also been changed for ones with LED Halo lights fitted - but more about those later.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20092.jpg)
Screen Mounting
I got around the problem of screen width by making up a couple of spacers. This then allowed me to bolt a standard Manx style screen to the plated welded to the front of the roll cage.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20093.jpg)
Bodywork
I also started to sand back some of the gelcoat to a smooth finish, and applied a coat of paint from a rattle can, just to give it a bit of a facelift.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20094.jpg)
Central Bar
A bar was also welded across from one side to another which gives me a point to attatch the steering column. The plates for attatching the dash can also be seen. The wiring was tidied up whilst all this was exposed, and quick release connectors were added to allow the dash and any extra bits to be unplugged with ease.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20095.jpg)
Fusebox
Because I have uprated the electrics, and didn`t want to use the "Continental" style fuses, I opted for a modular fusebox. Each "module" consists of a relay socket and three fuses beneath it, and these can simply be clipped together to form a long bank as can be seen here.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/fusebox.jpg)
Filling the gap
Now I don`t really posses the fibreglass skills that many seem to have, and I know that I have gone about this in the wrong way, but all said and done - it worked.
I started off by laying a few strips of fibreglass inside an old square plastic gutter that I had, and this gave me some straight sections with right angles that I could cut and join together as needed. I made a strip that went underneath the windscreen and held it in place with masking tape.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/200911.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/200910.jpg)
With a straight edge as a reference point, all I had to do now was to fill the gap with layers of fibreglass. I laid a few layers of fibreglass onto a sheet of glass, so that I ended up with some very thin and pliable flat bits that I could then use as formers for the shape of the bonnet, and then lay a few sheets of fibreglass over the top. Sounds easy when you say it like that, but getting that shape was hard, and I`m not quite sure I succeeded.
::) :-X
So there are still a few ripples, and the shape is not as great as it good be, but all things considered, I don`t think that it came out too badly in the end. The two domes for the wiper arms were moulded from an aerosol deodorant lid and then cut into the bonnet. A little rough around the edges, but it can always be smoothed out at a later date, as the priority is to get it back on the road so that I can enjoy it whilst the sun is shining.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20102.jpg)
I am really pleased with the more modern look that this has given me, but also saddened that by cutting off the original screen that I have lost a bit of the cars history.
But I am still going to hold fire on too much more bodywork until I am sure that this system works.
I had a rear cage built for me by Powercraft in Torquay - I wanted something that was a little closer to the engine than some of the "off the shelf" cages were, and I an very pleased with the results.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/projects/Buggy/Buggy24.jpg)
The top rails attatch to a flat plate that is also attatched to my roll cage, and the bottom mounts are attatched to the frame horns in the usual way.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/cage.jpg)
Next stage was to get some form of decent instrumentation in there. Originally, I had fitted an electronic speedo out of a Lorry that I had kicking around - worked brilliantly, but by god, that was an ugly dash. I liked the look of the combined instrument clusters by Acewell, and as I never do things by halves, I got in touch with them and became an Authorised Dealer.
I quickly knocked up a very sophisticated dashboard from 2"x1" and fitted the tax disc, mirror and an Acewell ACE3973 cluster.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20106.jpg)
Just to quickly mention, that there are several ways to get a speed pulse to an electronic speedo, some will use a magnet attatched to a rotating part that passes by a sensor fitted to a bracket, whilst I opted for a slight modifiaction to the existing cable drive from the front wheel. Instead of the cable going into the back of a VW speedo, mine screws into one of these instead.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/sender.jpg)
I had decided that I wanted to mount a stereo into the dash, along with the kill switch, start button and lighter sockets. So I fabricated a stainless panel and welded it to the crossbar with the intention of the dash itself being removeable, but leaving behind the essentials. I have used a Clarion Marine stereo here, because I wanted everything inside the car to be not only jetwashable when it gets dirty, but also to use a stereo of a non-standard shape and size that would not be of much interest to anyone else bearing in mind its an open top car.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20107.jpg)
It was then about how to fabricate a dash panel to go around it. By this stage, I was getting quite good at laying up bits of fibreglass, but knew nothing of making moulds etc, so this was really a bit of trial and error. In looking for something "straight" that I could use, I spotted that the gutter of my garage had quite a good profile, so I layed up a few strips, prised them out and even managed to get the gutter back in place before Liz found out. I then glassed a couple of them together, one inside the other and set about with a cutter to trim and get them to fit in place. This would then make the basis of my dash.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201010.jpg)
good to see progress there Dave as summers coming.
Not that much progress I`m afraid, I`m still trying to wade through bits of the original build thread to bring it back up to present day in the right order. Hadn`t realised just how much we had lost !
The next stage of dash building was to now fill in the gaps with various shapes and bits that I had made, lay a few layers of glassfibre over them and then smother the lot in Gel coat, as I didn`t really want to use filler anywhere. It takes time to sand it back to a smooth shape, but at least the Buggy can be used in the interim. The speakers in the dash are Fusion Marine ones, and are actually easier to hear, (being forward facing) than the Clarion Marine ones down in the sidepods. The gauge in the dash is for Oil Pressure.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20108.jpg)
look real sweet maty ;-)up :)
I like that dash! ;-)up
Do you find that when you turn right you loose whatever was on it tho? ;D
Its now the spring of 2010. After a few visits from Sawmill Jim via some ebay purchases, he told me about the Buggy Club, and all the help and advice that is on there - so I joined instantly, (and wish I had known about the place whilst building the car in the first place). There was a thread about the upcoming Swanage Carnival, and it seemed a great chance to go and make some friends. However, it did pose a bit of a problem for me, as I had no roof whatsoever - so a quick call to Guy down at West Country Trimmers in Bovey Tracey, Devon, saw my car booked in with him - and a week later I collected my Buggy with a nice new roof. Tucks in at the front lip of the screen, and has some pop fasteners along the rear edge.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201012.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201014.jpg)
I must admit that I am very pleased with the overall shape, and the roof can be put on and taken off again in a matter of seconds - Liz and I have even done this at traffic lights between red and green its that quick.
Good work on the dash Dave looks ace
Driving down to Swanage in 2010, the roof proved itself to be excellent and a worthy addition to the car. However, when camping in the rain for VeeDubbin 2010 I`m glad that I went back for some side panels.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/DATB10/DATB20101.JPG)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/DATB10/DATB20102.JPG)
They are really watertight, even at speed - but it feels like driving in a goldfish bowl, so I may keep them for useage when the Buggy is parked up.
:-\
But what certainly has not been watertight, are those back lights. I even drilled some drain holes in the back of them - but the plastic is such a bad fit that they do tend to fill up. Problem is that when they do, and the car is laid up in the garage for a while, the bulb holders corrode and nead cleaning every time I want to take it out.
I decided to therefore change over to LED lighting at the rear and made up some panels to fit inside the existing lenses.
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Buggypedia/LED/201018.jpg)
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Buggypedia/LED/201019.jpg)
and they seem to work very well.
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Buggypedia/LED/201020.jpg)
Good idea ;-)up
With the Summer of 2010 drawing to a close, I thought I would finish off the dash.
Held in with four bolts and three plugs for the wiring, it can pop out in a matter of minutes.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201022.jpg)
A quick blast over with some rattle cans and - et Viola !!
I`m not too worried about any paint imperfections, which is just as well, as there are millions - I just wanted it one colour, until such day as I decide what colour I actually want to paint it, and I`ll worry about it then
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201023.jpg)
Acewell ACE-3974 sits in there pretty well, don`t you think?
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/Acewell.jpg)
Lucky you found an Acewell to fit the hole in your dash. Almost looks made to measure. ::) ;D ;D ;-)up
After the trophy we received from Swanage 2010 for the size of our tent, I decided that maybe we should actually go for something a little bigger. I quite fancied a trailer tent, but of course, that would involve the fitting of a towbar - so thats exactly what I did.
Looking around on the net for VW towbars, there are a few diferent styles and types, and they also appear to attatch to the car in different ways. I managed to track down one from a Karmann Ghia that had two big U-Clamps that go around the rear torsion bars, and then bolted to the rear of the car just underneath the bumper. I knew I would have to fabricate something and this seemed a good place to start. What I hadn`t envisaged though was the sheer length of the bar - I know the backend of a Buggy is shorter than a Beetle / Ghia, but that really did stick out a long way.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/tow1.jpg)
With the U-Bolts clamped around the rear torsion bars, I wanted to find a way of bolting the bar to the frame horns, but also wanted to make it easily removeable should I ever want to take out the engine. An angled plate was welded to the gearbox bracket and a bar welded across the towbar frame so that it could slot into place and then be bolted up. To remove the towbar, the bolts are removed and the whole thing slides back an inch before it drops.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/tow2.jpg)
Next up was to chop off nearly 15 inches of overhanging bar, and reduce the length to something more aesthetically pleasing.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/tow3.jpg)
Here we can see my good mate Bill, from Powercraft Engineering cleaning up the towball before re welding it back on to the frame.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/tow4.jpg)
One refitted, we jumped up and down on the bar a bit, and I was a little concerned that the bar felt like it was flexing a little under my weight. Probably would never have been an issue for towing, but I soon saw the reason for it. The distance between the new rear gearbox mount and the towball was far greater than the original distance between the original towball and rear bumper mount, and put very simply, a long unsupported bar is going to flex. There was a very easy remedy to this, and it was to weld another mounting plate between the rear cage bars. This isn`t going anywhere now !!
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/tow5.jpg)
And here it is, cleaned up, painted, electrics fitted and the obligatory tennis ball put there to drive peoples dogs into going "nuts" when they see it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/tow6.jpg)
After a quick trawl on the bay of E, I found a guy down the road in Plymouth who was selling a Combi-Camp trailer tent for £200, so I took a quick trip down there to pick it up, and it made its debut here at Hazels Bash NEWS 2011, Malvern. I was surprised how nice and easy it was to tow, and although I only have drum brakes, I had no issues whatsoever.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/Combicamp1.jpg)
The top flips open giving a two berth area over the top of the trailer, a large living area in the middle, and another two berths in the front - and this can be erected in literally just a few minutes.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/Combicamp2.jpg)
There is also a framework section for the side to give an even larger area, but you don`t have to fit this bit if you don`t want to. This bit can take a while, as with any frame tent.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/Combicamp3.jpg)
I cannot recommend these tents highly enough - they are brilliant !!
I put quite a few miles on the Buggy in 2011, and certainly made use of our trailer tent - but it was after we travelled down to Swanage Carnival that things started to go wrong.
The journey down there was fine, as were the cruise and the carnival itself - and it was so hot that Liz and I decided to stop at one of the campsites on the way home and stay for an extra week. The car started to misbehave a little, just the odd pop and bang here and there from the engine and a quick clean of the (very sooty) plugs seemed to cure that one.
The steering was starting to get heavy, and felt "notchy" and I soon discovered that the weight of a full tank of fuel was starting to cause the front of the car to droop a little. The bottom of the tank was hitting the steering dougnut. A few swift belts with a hammer allowed me to drive around with a half tank of fuel, and I knew that I could deal with it when I got home. I didn`t have any front supports for the body, but knew it wouldn`t be too difficult to knock something up.
And so the problems of that week away just kept coming - I started to notice that as the car was now baking in the sun, that I could smell fuel - and what was worse, if I tried to remove the fuel cap, it would fly off in my hand. For some reason the tank appeared to be pressurising. A couple of tmes, I tried removing the cap slowly, just to allieviate the pressure, and in doing so could produce quite a fountain of fuel from the cap. I initially put this down to the exceptionally hot sun and a half empty tank, but it was niggling away at me, as this really wasn`t a good thing to be happenning.
I`d like to say that it ended there, but it didn`t. At the end of our holiday, we hitched up the trailer and set for home. But the Buggy decided it wanted to stay, and started to leave bits behind, namely the baffles. Usually, I would have driven home with no baffles, but there comes a point with so many things failing at once, that you just have to rely on the AA to get you home.
:'(
The car sat in shame in the garage over the colder months, having let me down, but during the spring of 2012 we had a few sunny days, and I decided to drag it out of the garage and start to put some things right. The exhaust baffles were now bolted in using locknuts, as anything else seemed to vibrate loose after time (pop rivets included). I set to work on the front end body support.
Because I had not been involved with many Buggies, I was unawares of the front body support that is often used between the top of the torsion bar and the bodyshell. I certainly didn`t have anything similar on mine, which is why my front end had now drooped under the weight of the tank bouncing around for the last few thousand miles. With the bonnet off, I couldn`t see an easy way to fabricate a bracket without taking the body off completely, which I really didn`t fancy, so I instead made up two supports that bolted to the bracket where my front bumper was.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/supportlh.jpg)
Maybe not the prettiest of brackets, but they were functional - and lets face it, my car is never going to be a show winner anyway. I bolted them on and did the obligatory jumping up and down on them, and they held just fine. I put the car back together, and went to reverse out of the garage.
Now you know how it is when you get that sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach that something has gone wrong - well I got it within six feet of reversing the car. I had no steering. No, I mean it, I had NO STEERING, the wheel was firmly locked in place and would not turn at all. After inspecting my handywork, I didn`t know whether to laugh or cry - but there was a definate air of "Oh Bugger".
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/supportrh.jpg)
The little arm on the bottom of the steering box was firmly wedged against my new bracket, so it was a case of out with the grinder and cut a small slot for it to travel in. It worked, and steering was now a possibility again.
Whilst everything was apart, everything was given a good going over, engine serviced - plugs, leads, rotor arm, all the usual bits changed, and I took the Buggy for a drive round the block. All seemed well, and I assumed that it now had a clean bill of health.
;-)up
Purely by chance, in 2012, a friend of mine who breaks E-Types and Aston Martins, told me of an E-Type he had just taken in that had ridiculous wheels on it - and couldn`t fathom why anyone in their right mind would do such a thing to a classic car. Turns out they were Wolfrace slot mags on a Jaguar stud pattern.
I know my 13" front wheels are way too small, they came with the shell - but a set of Slot mags? Obviously I couldn`t resist, and I think I was salivating as beer tokens were exchanged.
The rear tyres were around 335 on a 10x15 rim and despite all my attempts to get them under the arches, it just wasn`t happening. They were sold to a guy on here who was as pleased as anything to get hold of them. The fronts were 265x50x15 on 8x15 rim and fitted on the back of the Buggy just perfectly. The tyres were sold on and replaced with some brand new 275x60x15 BFG rubber. I was quite pleased, but still had to find something to match the front.
There are various types and styles of slot mags, and differing shape holes, and whilst trawling through the internet on a friday night looking for a matching pair for the front, I was amazed how many wierd and odd sets people had - three of one type and two of another, and none of them were fetching much money due to them either being mismatched or in poor condition. With a beer in one hand I placed a few silly and cheeky cheap bids on some of them that I came across, not thinking for a minute that I would get any of them. After logging in to the computer on Monday morning, I realised that I had won a few pairs of wheels - and let this be a lesson to anyone who goes online after having a few beers - I had 32 wheels turn up - I had won the lot, every single set I had bid on !!
;D
Split them up, matched them up as correct pairs and stuck them back online - luckily I made a killing on them, as I wasn`t sure who was going to kill me first, Lisa or the Parcelforce driver !!
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/BuggyWheels.jpg)
But as a result, I achieved my goal, and ended up with a set of 7x15 Wolfrace Slots for the front and a matching pair of Cooper Cobra 235x60 tyres. Whilst not to everybodies taste, I think you will agree that they are a dramatic improvement over the tiny Wellers that were on there.
Still one of my favorite classic buggy wheels ;)
In March 2012, we had a very rare and sunny weekend, and the local VW club were going off for a cruise down to Exmouth. Despite the chilly cold weather, we decided that even at six degrees, the impending 100 mile cruise accompanied by some VW enthusiasts would be a great way to determine if all was running well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/exmouth2012.jpg)
We made it to Exmouth seafront, absoulutely frozen, but the car did not miss a beat ;-)up
I recognise that photo Dave! :)
Quote from: BuggySteve on May 26, 2013, 12:36:05 PM
I recognise that photo Dave! :)
You certainly should - that great T-Shirt you made from this picture is a constant reminder of a really happy day out.
;-)up
All in all, things seemed to be going very well, the Buggy was looking good, and even starting to lose some of its "knackered" appearance. And this was a good thing, because coming up was NEWS2012, and if the last one was anything to go by, Hazels bash in Malvern was certainly up there with my favourite events.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20121.jpg)
What is it that they say about the calm before the storm?
:'(
Made me laugh when I read about your E-Bay wheels but what a result they look great on the buggy makes a huge difference buggy really looking cool ;-)up
Thanks -
Yep, those wheels were certainly a talking point amongst a few people ::)
;D
Cheers Steve, nice to know someones enjoying it :)
We headed off for NEWS 2012, and whist it felt like the end of the world as far as the weather went, the Buggy lapped up the miles throughout the torrential rain. During the cruise through Malvern, I lost all engine power, albeit breifly, and then it burst back into life with a thunderous BANG! and it was fine. A few miles down the road, it did it again - it was though someone had switched off the ignition switch, blew a raspberry and then turned it back on again. The weather was so atrocious at this stage, I dismissed this as nothing more than some water in the electrics.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/HustlerGT.jpg)
But it was the drive home that was a killer. With around 100 miles left to go, I was on the motorway hard shoulder. The car would start, and as soon as I got up to about 50mph to join the main carriageway the engine died again. It would start almost immediately on the button, but as soon as I got up to speed it died again. This happened for the next 70 miles or so, and I soon worked out that the slower I went, the longer I could travel between breakdowns - almost managing 5 miles at a time !! But each time I stopped, my achieveable top speed was slower than before. By the time I hit Torbay (not known for being flat!) I was trying to go up hills, towing a trailer on nothing more than tickover. The minute I increased the revs, the engine cut out. But I did manage to make it home under my own steam.
Sadly, the Buggy had died.
:'(
you cant leave the story hanging there ;D
Quote from: Dave DND on May 31, 2013, 08:13:59 AM
Sadly, the Buggy had died.
:'(
AND :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
A few days later, when tempers had calmed down, it was time to find out what was wrong. Trying to start the car it was obvious from the graunching noises coming from the starter motor that it had suffered a little from the previous trip home, but what was soon apparent was that I had no spark whatsoever.
It just so happened that within sight of where I was sitting on the floor of tha garage, that I could see another distributor, albeit with points fitted - and this seemed a good place to start, especially as substitution would take but a few moments with the spanner.
Replacement dizzy fitted and the engine burst immediately into life. Looks like I may have found the culprit and my EMPI ignition module may have died after many years of good service. A quick trawl of the net and a brand new Accuspark electronic ignition module soon arrived and was fitted to the original distributor. Result - No spark. Points dizzy refitted, engine fired up and a replacement Accuspark obtained. This one had one of the wires loose, and was promptly sent back. Not impressed by the lack of quality here, and my own fault for looking at the cheaper options. A Pertronix Ignition module was therefore ordered and fitted and the engine burst into life once more. Started on the button every time, although the noises from the starter were beginning to concern me, definately no lubrication left on any of the bearings.
I took it for a good spin around the block, got up to some speed, and BANG! the engine cut out, coasted to the side of the road and then it would fire up again. Now my electrics are more than a little sophisticated, what with immobilisers and relays etc, and whilst everything looked fine, I thought that I would run a new live feed over the car to the coil, so that everything was bypassed and back to basics. At this point, I noticed that the coil was quite warm - which isn`t a great sign. In fact, if the coil was deteriorating after each spark, it would explain the loss of speed and power - well, theoretically anyway. No matter - coil was suspect, so a new Pertronix flame thrower coil was ordered and fitted.
Engine fired up into life, but was still somewhat "lumpy"but at least this time felt more like fuel problems than electrical. The plugs were sooty again, like they were from previous times, so I thought I may as well whip the carb off and have a look inside. The forum came into its own at this stage, as lots of helpfull advice was forthcoming, and a mahoosive thanks goes to Peter for his perseverance in assisting me in stripping down and analyzing the carbs over the net. The float chamber was fairly dirty, in fact surprisingly so, and the carb was taken apart, cleaned, jet sizes checked and put back together.
Did it make a difference?
Did it hell.
:'(
Putting a car you have built into a garage is admitting defeat, and I`m sad to say, thats where I was at.
Down the road from me is a very good father and son VW garage, Len, the Dad looks after the watercooled stuff and his son Adam, is an absolute Aircooled fanatic. So I asked if he would take a look at the car and see what he thought. He reckoned that as so much had been apart recently that most of the settings would have been way out. Probably needed a good setting up, to which I agreed.
The day was a glorious hot sunny day, and the buggy stood outside in the sunshine waiting for its turn in the garage, and when it did - I got the first of many calls from Adam.
"Dave, your carb is soaking wet with fuel - Think you may have a fuel issue?"
I explained the issues I had last year with the pressurised fuel tank, and they had not shown their head in the last 6 months or so. I hadn`t figured that it had also been too cold for the fuel to warm up, and now it was getting warmer, the fuel was expanding at an alarming rate. Adam phoned back in quite a humerous mood:
"Dave, I think you had better come and see this"
When I turned up, he was there grinning like a cheshire cat and said that the pressure in my fuel lines was too much, and was overpowering the float valve in the carb. He disconnected the fuel lines at the carb and we watched in amazement as the jet of fuel shot nearly 10 feet across the workshop. We agreed that it probably wasn`t supposed to do that. However, we were at a loss as to why it was happening, as I did have a breather valve on the tank, and the facet fuel pump was supposed to be regulated to around 4psi - then we remembered that it wasn`t actually running - this was natural pressure, not from a fuel pump. We came up with a quick fix though, and that was to put a fuel regulator in line on a temporary basis, until I could take the bonnet off and locate the problem. I left him to finish off setting it up, and then had another phone call, and this time, he was in hysterics:
"Dave, its about the oil change I am doing . . . . "
" . . . . Oil Change ?" I replied
"Yes, I have an oil question for you . . . ." He laughed
" . . . Uh? . . . What about? . . . Which oil I use? . . ." I replied, unsure why he was playing with the oil.
"No, I was just wondering if you wanted me to discard the oil, or to put it straight back into the fuel tank? - It`ll probably run on it quite well, about 99 RON I reckon"
Turns out, the pressure in my fuel lines had been pushing the carb float valve open for so long, that the petrol had run down the sides of the venturi`s and had filled the engine up with oil. I have never seen oil with so much petrol in it in my life. Overfuelling like this would certainly account for some of the rough running.
Adam promptly set up the carb, the timing, changed the oil, and handed me back the car. I went for a few belts around the block and all felt good. I was however, still quite hesitant about its current state of reliability though, as the trip to Swanage 2012 was tomorrow - I was cutting it quite fine to say the least.
So that evening, it was a beautifull summers evening, and Lisa and I thought we would drive down the coast to Brixham, for an evening wander around the harbour and an ice cream, and put a few miles on the Buggy.
Off we drove, the Buggy was burbling away like it used to, no problems with accelerating, I could get up to speed, and Lisa and I parked up in the car park looking forward to driving to Swanage tomorrow for the carnival. We sat on the harbour in the evening sun and ate ice cream. Things were good.
Can you guess what happened when we got back in the car?
:'(
I jumped in the car and pressed the starter button, to be met with the most horriffic graunching of metal against metal noises, echoing off every building in the bay of Brixham, that was the final death throws of the starter motor. And then it siezed solid. Not even a click.
Luckily for us, the Buggy bump started failrly easily, and we drove home gingerly, hoping that we would not have to stop anywhere or stall the engine. Lisa didn`t say a word to me all the way home as I think she could tell from the steam coming out of my ears that I wasn`t in a particularly talkative mood. We packed the Subaru for Swanage in silence. There was no way on this planet that we were going to miss Swanage.
We knew from previous years, that Swanage Carnival weekend is pretty much the ultimate Beach Buggy event, we would be with like minded people, and knew that for anyone turning up without a Buggy, that there would always be some spare seats available for the cruise (Thanks Dom & Gary).
I`m actually quite glad I didn`t take the Buggy in the end. You see, I built my Buggy "Pre-Forum" and before I had seen most of the others on here, and because of that, I had built into it a thousand and one little niggles and mistakes. Some of the things I had done, could have been done better, and I spent that weekend making mental notes and bending peoples ears about who, where, why and how they had done the things they had done to their cars and decided that it was time to take mine off the road, dismantle it to sort out the fuel tank problems, maybe change the engine over for the 1600 I had now inherited and generally give it a bit of a rebuild.
I had a plan. :)
First up on the list was that troublesome starter motor.
I tried searching for a genuine Bosch one, and the piece of junk that GSF were trying to palm off onto me as a genuine part beggars belief. I must admit, I am getting very weary of the crap and lies that seem to be coming from that chain, to the point that I am no longer going to use them at all.
Although I couldn`t find a genuine one, Heritage came up trumps with a USA starter, (I suspect shipped from China) but although slightly smaller in the body, seemed to have loads of grunt and turns the engine over at a significantly faster speed. Worked out to be much cheaper too.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/starter.jpg)
and I knew that if changing the starter motor, then the small bush that goes on the end should also be changed at the same time, as it had adopted the obligatory oval shape - I am always surprised that this bush doesnt come with the starter and has to be ordered seperately.
Top tip - or should that be Top tap?
That little bush can be a tight fit in the bellhousing, but comes out in a matter of seconds if you run a tap through it and wind it out
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/tap.jpg)
;-)up
With the bonnet off and tank out, it was time to take a good look at everything under there and see what I could do better. I gave everything a quick coat of blue hammerite, but to be honest, it had actually weathered quite well under there.
One of the things I wanted to do was to relocate the brake master cylinder reservoir. I had a remote bottle mounted on the inside bulkhead with the two long pipes going down to the master cylinder, just like the standard Beetle one. For some strange reason, I had it in my head that this would be a complex thing to convert and move, but the solution I found could really not have been more simple.
The fluid pipes were pulled, and temporarily joined together so that I didn`t get any dust or particle ingress whilst working, and I set about ordering up a replacement dual circuit reservoir from Heritage (about £20)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/190812.jpg)
There are a couple of different sizes, and whilst not terribly well described by the guy on the phone, it turns out that it relates to the size of the plastic pipe coming out of the master cylinder. If you pull off the hoses, there are two white, angled plastic mouldings with either a 7mm or 12mm diameter to them - order accordingly. Fitting the repacement reservoir is nothing more than pulling out the two plastic adaptors from their rubber mountings on the cylinder and press fitting the replacement reservoir back into place. As a bonus, because this is on the reservoir side, air has not entered the system, and you should be able to get away without the need to bleed the system afterwards.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/mastercylinder.jpg)
I had to grind away a little bit of the body just behind the reservoir, but I think thats because my body is a little more out of shape and probably overhangs in all the wrong places. The old holes were all re-glassed and tidied up.
A good tip I got from the guys on the muddy side, was to wrap a tie wrap around the outside of the cylinder and reservoir, as although nobody reckoned it ever would part company, it seemed a sensible idea just in case.
One of the niggles I wanted to be rid of was my dash mounted horn push. As you can see, my switchgear is from a Ford Escort XR4i that has been welded onto a VW steering column. I fabricated a bracket and mounted the front plate from the VW indicator gear that has the brass strip that contacts with the ring at the base of the steering wheel, and that way I could now wire up the horn to the steering wheel centre.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/cowling.jpg)
The gap between the diameter of the base of the larger Ford wheel, and the smaller Mountney one I was using was taken up by bending and attatching a draught excluder in a circle.
Next I tarted up the steering wheel. The black housing was polished up a bit, and I replaced the tacky plastic horn push with a billet aluminium one I bought on the net.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/mountney.jpg)
Big improvement I think. ;-)up
I currently had a pair of Porsche 944 seats fitted, that needed a bit of tlc. They are quite a wide seat, and do not fit many Buggies. The problem I had though was not the width of the seat base, but the width of the top section when it folded forwards - It kept catching on the sides of the shell.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/seat1.jpg)
Still, Porsche seats are very sought after because they are so comfy, so I thought I would sell them on and find something more suitable. Sitting in Hunters Buggy was a very quick way of choosing a new seat, the Suzuki Cappuccino seats he had were really comfortable, trouble was though, that they are quite rare and can command a high price for good condition ones.
However, a bit of thinking outside of the box, and I managed to pick up a pair of ripped ones for 99p each and £12 courier collection. A bargain indeed, and I was ecstatic.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/seat2.jpg)
Now you may think that what I ended up with for under £15 is somewhat rough, but after a quick session at Westcountry trimmers, and another £120 later, I am now the proud owner of these refurbished seats.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/seat3.jpg)
And as you can see, they are considerably narrower than the old Porsche seats that they have replaced.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/seat4.jpg)
Loving this read.
Really must scan and post up my Doon story, right from the begining ;)
Chad
There are as many arguments for and against electric fuel pumps, as there are pumps themselves. But once the mechanical pump brigade finally conceed that you cannot immobilise the original fuel pump, then a meaningfull discussion can then be had about electric pumps. Generally speaking, the ones that will interest us will fall into two main types, the Facet "knocker" pump or the Rotary pump.
Due to the fuel problems I had previously encountered, I decided to start again. The knocker pump that had been bolted to the side of my fan housing was discarded in favour of a front mounted rotary pump. Most of the pipework and fittings I had were for 8mm fuel lines, which is great, except that the little elbow coming out of the bottom of the fuel tank is half that size. An adaptor was called for, and came in the guise of a plastic filter with a stepped shoulder on it. Perfect, and would double up as a pre-filter for the pump. A short length of 4mm pipe from the tank to the filter and then 8mm braided hose was run throughout the length of the car to the back, where I would deal with that end another day.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/pump.jpg)
I used Aero fittings throughout, and having never used them before, the jury is still out until I see how many leaks evolve. Seemed simple enough to put together, although the anodising does mark very easily with metal spanners. Lots of advice was forthcoming about heatshrink or tape over the spanner jaws to protect the finish, but I`d done most of it by then.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/260812.jpg)
The whole assembly was bolted together using rubber coated "Mikalor" P-Clips and then mounted to the floorpan on a rubber anti vibration bobbin.
My washer bottle was located in the footwell, and although Lisa has short legs and had never actually kicked it, every time I looked over, it did seem a really crap place to have put it. There was plenty of space on the other side of the bulkhead for it to go, so all I needed to do was relocate the bottle.
After seeing a thread by Ben_W about some stainless work that had been done for him by a really nice guy called John Cole, I had a look on his ebay page and came across an oil tank he had made for a motorbike. After some scribbles and dimensions were exchanged along with a few sheckles, this arrived in the post.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/washerbottle.jpg)
With it now mounted against the bulkhead, I can now refill the bottle from the wheel arch, and the sight glass is easy to see. The feed pipe from the bottom connects to a universal pump that I have under the dash area.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/washerbottle2.jpg)
Of course, the minute I posted my new bottle pictures, the replies started to flood in, that washer fluid was also available in green. What is it with you guys and green? The only way to shut everybody up was to therefore empty the bottle, open every cannister in Halfords until I found the colour of screenwash I was looking for (much to the bemusement of the staff) and refill the bottle with green.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/washerbottle3.jpg)
Honestly . . . The things I have to do to keep you lot happy ::) :P
It could do with being a shade or two darker, or you couls re-spray the buggy to a ligher shade of green :D
Quote from: Buggybaggy on June 06, 2013, 07:18:36 AM
It could do with being a shade or two darker,:D
Ah . . . No . . . You see . . .
When I purchased this stuff and commented on the lighter colour, the salesman asked me what sort of Buggy I had, so I described yours and gave him your name. The salesman said, "thats ok sir, by the time the Buggy gets on the road, this will have bio-degraded and gone a few shades darker by then, and should match"
:P :P :P
::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D
It'll be me that's biodegraded by the time I get on the road :o
Now it was time to investigate the source of my problematic fuel supply - the petrol tank - and I made a couple of very alarming and disturbing discoveries
The first discovery I made was the expensive little Demon Tweeks breather valve I had fitted when I put a new tank in there a couple of years ago, as suspected, had indeed failed, but only in one direction. For those that don`t know, you need to put a valve on the tank somewhere so that air is replaced as fuel is used up, else you get a vaccuum in the system and poor fuel delivery. However, if you only use a one way valve, then as the fuel vapours heat up, the tank can start to store pressure. Apart from not doing the car much good, it can be a little dangerous in the event of an accident, as petrol would squirt everywhere. Hence you need a breather valve, one that works in both directions.
As it was an exceptionally hot and sunny day, and me being somewhat inquisitive, I rigged up a spare mechnical oil pressure gauge I had to the fuel line pipe at the bottom of the tank, and left it to bake in the sun whilst out of the car (reckon it was about half full ) After three hours, the tank was obviously very hot, but I was alittle alarmed to see nearly 20psi on the gauge. Now I know this is no way an accurate test, but thats still a considerable pressure that has built up. A breather valve would have vented this to the atmosphere long before any pressure had built.
The second discovery I made was when draining out the tank, and this one I was really not happy about. I bought a new tank from Flatlands a few years ago, great tank, and they suggested to go for some of their tank sealant inside. Seemed resonable, and the two part mix was very easy to apply by swirling it around the insides of the brand new tank, and left to harden. Looking through the fller hole over the years has made me think everything was ok. However, having removed the float sender to have a really good look inside the tank, I was annoyed to find that this protective layer is now coming away from the metal in big sections. Its breaking up into lumps, both large and small, and for want of a better description, I would say it has bio-degraded, or reacted with the petrol. Trouble is, I now have a thousand and one small bits trying to escape through my fuel lines. How many of you have ever looked closely at this sealant stuff a few years later and now wish you hadn`t bothered with it?
I`m glad I fitted a fuel pump pre-filter now, and it has made me think that I ought to go for a much larger and better fuel filter at the back as well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/tank.jpg)
Whilst investigating various breather valves, I was instantly struck by the sheer simplicity of the washer jet valve that Peter and Sally use on their cars - it was so simple. However, I did not want the "Scaramanga" or "Third Nipple" look, but my search led me towards off road motorcycle valves that go on top of the fuel cap. These were very simple end caps that allowed air to breath in both directions, but also had a small ball bearing inside that would shut off the fuel in the event of the bike going over, or in my case, should the Buggy overturn.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/valve.jpg)
A length of Petrol resistant hose, long enough and high enough to make sure that the fuel didn`t slosh about under heavy cornering or braking, was run up the side of the A-post, and held in place with a Mikalor clip, just inside the dash area. Whilst running the pipe, I also thought it an idea to have a small "U-Bend" that would eventually fill with fuel and prevent continuous and open venting.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/valve2.jpg)
Whilst playing around with the wiring for the new fuel pump, I thought I may as well run some cables for a CB Radio. I know they have pretty much died a death around here, but I have noticed that a lot of the Buggies seem to have them fitted and they are used when cruising, so it seemed a good idea.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/wiring1.jpg)
I have opted for a Polmar Venus, certainly not the cheapest of rigs, and the reviews are only marginally better than average - but what caught my attention was not just the physical size of the thing, but the fact that the controls are on the Microphone meaning that the box with the gubbins inside can be hidden away somewhere. Mine is going to be mounted on the top of the bulkhead where the bracket is shown.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/venus.jpg)
My original flat Porsche seat runners were bolted to a couple of bits of box section to give the desired height in the Buggy, and these were replaced by the Suzuki runners as seen here. This was a right PITA to do, as I cannot weld, and had to mark these up, run down the road to my mate, get him to tack them, run back, check them, run back for proper welding . . . . . AAAARRRRGGGGGHHH !!
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/runners.jpg)
There was no alternative - I really must learn to weld, and trying to get this bracket sorted was the clincher. A few of you have asked me if I would repeat my "learning to weld" thread from the old forum, which I certainly will do, but I am going to wait until I have dug my new welder out of storage and need help in setting it up.
;-)up
For those that don`t know me, I have been known to dabble a bit in car audio. From building several manufacturer demo vehicles for the likes of Kenwood and Sony, TV appearances, Custom Builds, and countless trophies after helping to set up the UK competition scene . . . It is somewhat embarrassing whenever a simple question is asked of me:
"Can I hear my stereo over the noise of my exhausts?"
You all know full bloody well I can`t, no one can - but this time, I`m going to have a crack at a different answer next time I`m asked. As my car is pretty much Jet-Washable, inside and out, anything electronic I put in there has to be the same. So after a quick call to my mates at Clarion, I now have some high end Marine equipment to play with, (currently not all available in the UK). These amplifiers and speakers are all water resistant, hermetically sealed and coated, and happy to play in the wet.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/marine.jpg)
8)
When I had my roll cage constructed, I had a few extra bolts and studs welded on in the corners, that would act as electrical earth points. Luckily for me, I had a spare one for the amplifier terminal.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/earth.jpg)
The wiring and cables for the amplifier and speakers were then run to under the drivers seat, where the amplifier is intended to be fitted.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/wiring2.jpg)
And then the unthinkable happened . . . . .
DISASTER !!
Whilst in the garage, I noticed a crack in the wall that wasn`t there the day before - the garage was moving, and I needed to get out fast - very fast.
Garage was in such a poor state, it even has its own build thread !!
http://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php/topic,407.0.html
And thats pretty much my Buggy Build thread up to its current status. The Buggy was thrown into the temporary garage in such a rush that I have no idea where all the bits are, where my tools are, and due to the chaos in the yard, access isn`t exactly great either, but that said, I`m determined to get back working on it as soon as I can.
Thanks for reading and hope you haven`t been too bored by it.
:'(
thoroughly enjoyed reading it, well written and detailed.
you just need to carry on to the garage build and the moat fortification :D
Cheer mate - glad you enjoyed it.
I must admit, writing this over the past few days has really kindled my enthusiasm for dragging it out of the garage and doing some more. Its a sunny day here today - so do I spend time building the garage, or dig the Buggy out and have a play? Decisions, decisions . . . .
:-\
BUGGY ;D garage can wait a day or two ;-)up
Great write up by the way mate, both of them :D :D
Thanks mate -
Yep, sun is shining and too hot to play cement - Buggy is being dragged out as we speak.
They say bad things always happen in three`s, well, I`ve had my three for now.
Tried and failed to pull Buggy out last weekend, and discovered that it had been sat in the garage all winter on a flat tyre, and try as I may, it did not want to come out of the garage. That was problem number one.
Problem number two was that the flat tyre was not just a puncture, and where it had been sitting was now a nice crack in the sidewall of my Cooper Cobra`s - and we all know just how easy they are to obtain nowadays. That was problem number two.
And the third problem is that the only size tyre I could find with white letters that I liked (BFG) meant I would have to order a pair to keep the fronts with the same tread pattern. Bugger.
Still, as luck would have it, when I phoned Northants tyres for a pair, and a good price was given, I did ask if that was a trade price, and gave my company details - result = another £50 knocked off
Just swapped the flat one over, and will tackle the other one at a later date.
Buy one and get one free is that Dave :D
You can probably sell the spare cobra and get most of your money back ;D ;D
Now that I know my tank is degrading and full of crap, and fully aware that I cannot clean out all of that tank sealant, I decided to go for the Grand-Daddy of fuel filters, the Filter King. The added bonus of the model I have gone for is that is also boasts an adjustable built in fuel regulator, so I shouldn`t have any problems there either.
This has been mounted on the rear bulkhead just behind the engine, and plumbed in using braided hoses and aero connectors throughout.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/filterking.jpg)
Wow, its so nice to be working on the Buggy again :)
See that....buggy therapy....works every time ;-)up
Yes good therapy indeed but even better when it's all done and you're out in it ;-)up :D :D ;D
This might appear a very random styled build thread from now on, as the order of reassembly is going to be dependant on which hidden parts come to light in the garage.
I found some lengths of RG58 CB cable, so that was next on the cards. I already have two aerials mounted on the rear cage, the left one is for my stereo, and the right one was always intended to be for a CB, I just never got around to it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/dv271.jpg)
However, when I put the brackets there, I also made sure that holes were drilled in the underside of the rear cage so that I could run some hidden cables through them. You can see here where I have now mounted the angled DV27 connector and cable, and the cable now exits under the wheelarch.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/dv272.jpg)
There is a cable that has been run down the body from the transceiver at the front, and eventually there will be a plug and socket joint at the back so that the cage can be unplugged before removal.
Because I am using an Acewell digital dash, the resistance of the original VW fuel tank sender unit is incompatable and would give me a false fuel level reading. You can buy little electronic impedance matching units, but I wanted to do it properly, and that meant using an Acewell sender unit.
The Acewell unit looks similar, but has a different shape flange at the top. It has a square one with four holes instead of the round five hole one we are all used to.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/fuelsender1.jpg)
I suppose I could have cut a new hole in the tank to mount this, but instead I chopped off the mounting flange, did the same with the VW sender, and got my mate to weld the two together (again - note to self, must learn to bloody weld) and this then fitted in the original hole.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/fuelsender2.jpg)
It needed to be adjusted, calibrated and to check that it didn`t foul on anything as it moved, so I tied a bit of nylon fishing line to the end of the float arm, passed it through one of the screw holes, and I could then pull on the fishing line and operate the float up and down. By holding a ruler against the line, I could bend and adjust the float arm accordingly to give me an approximation of where full and empty were, as I could check the height of the movement.
After I was satisfied that I had got it about where I wanted, I connected it all up, switched the power on, and filled up the tank, one gallon at a time, making note of how the gauge moved as I added fuel.
Result = Not bad . . . Not bad at all . . . ;-)up
Quite pleased with that one :)
Quote from: Dave DND on June 09, 2013, 07:25:54 PM
so I tied a bit of nylon fishing line to the end of the float arm, passed it through one of the screw holes,
Damn, wish I had thought of that when I was doing mine ;D
QuoteQuite pleased with that one
And I should hope so too, that's a neat idea and the setup using the
fishing line is brilliant.
Am watching all this unfold, its going well Dave ;-)up
Peter
Nifty ;-)up
I think that's one for the helps and tips section.
Great idea.. ;-)up
As previously mentioned, I am using a Filter King, and it has a built in fuel regulator to control the pressure to the carbs. This is done by undoing the locknut on the top and turning the nut underneath until the correct pressure is reached, and then locking them up again.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/filterking2.jpg)
This is actually very easy to do with the help of an external fuel pressure gauge. Plumb it into the end of my fuel lines, switch the pump on and adjust the regulator until the desired pressure is achieved. I set mine to 4psi.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/fuelpressure.jpg)
The fuel lines were connected back to the carb and then everything checked for leaks. Seems that my hesitation about aero style connectors may have been unfounded, as so far, every one of them appears to be leak free.
I know I am mid-build, and the current engine is also due to come out, but the temptation to hit the starter button was just too much.
And it lives (http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
The engine burst into life almost instantly, which is good to know, as the entire fuel system has now been changed and all seems to be ok.
Now to rummage the garage for some more bits to bolt back on.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/sherlock.gif)
Just replaced my little motorbike indicators on the front for LED ones. As I have the Angel Eye conversion on my headlights, I thought these little Vortex rings would look a little better.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/indicator1.jpg)
I`ve used 6 ohm resistors to ensure correct flash rate, and 50W versions so they don`t burn the fibreglass like the 25W ones do - (still get quite hot though)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/indicator2.jpg)
some neat upgrades there Dave.
I will have to do your sender mod after the new beetle sender failed just need some octopus arms to get access with the bonnet on.
Changed the other front tyre over today, so I now have brand new BFG`s all round
8)
Hi Dave,
looks cool ;-)up
Couple of questions for ya,
1. where did you get the resistors for the LED indicators - I have seen special LED flasher relays but not resistors to use with the standard relay?
2. I notice to cable tie everything (very neatly ;D), any reason why you do this and not use spiral wrap or split conduit?
Cheers,
Paul.
Paul,
The cheapest place to get the resistors is definately ebay - type in "led resistors 50w" as a search and it should bring a few up - don`t go for the cheaper 25W ones though as they get too hot.
As far as the cable ties go, I guess because I deal with a lot of auto electrics as part of my job, I like to see things neat and tidy. I`m not personally a fan of the split conduit, as I find that they can fill up with water and crap a little too easily, and the spiral wrap always looks a little messy to me when different length bits are added and joined. I suppose nothing really wrong with either, just personal preference, and a cable tie can be chopped out and replaced very easily.
Besides, I have to use green cable ties now, just to keep some of this lot amused (mentioning no names, AndyR, BaggyBuggy etc etc ) :P
Thanks Dave, I was going to mention about the colour but thought best not - leave that to others ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers,
Paul.
I know that putting a carpet in your Buggy is a little O.T.T. but I`m fed up with mine looking so knackered and sparse inside, and thought that this would be a great way to smarten it up a bit. Because I know full well that my Buggy is going to get soaked and full of water, I opted for some rott-proof and water resistant gel backed carpet that I picked up a while back at a Kit Car show for around £12 a roll.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20131.jpg)
I didn`t want to follow the conventional 11 piece VW Beetle carpet set design, and saw no reason why I could not make this out of a single sheet, a bit like the moulded carpet in a modern car. Using a profile gauge, I marked and cut out the gearshift and handbrake holes from the middle. This would be my starting point.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20132.jpg)
The theory is that you apply heat and shape the carpet accordingly, but if you try with a hot air gun like I did at first, you may just end up with a very singed and burnt carpet as a result. The second attempt involved a small steam cleaner, which had an assortment of different shaped heads and brush attatchments. The welding gloves proved very effective against burnt fingers.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20133.jpg)
It didn`t take long to start shaping the carpet over the tunnel, but as I was heating and stretching, I was very aware that the whole lot kept moving about.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20134.jpg)
So I anchored the carpet down using the seat belt stalks.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20135.jpg)
Working with a big sheet of carpet is quite daunting, and it does not always fold the way you want it too, so a little bit was cut off here and there as I went along, taking care not to cut too much at once.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20136.jpg)
Shaping the edges is actually quite easy, and 10 seconds or so with the steamer was enough to make the material quite pliable, and it could then be held or stretched into place for a few minutes whilst it cooled and retained its shape - gloves were essential for this bit. This is actually moulded around the fuel line that runs down the side of the tunnel.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20137.jpg)
After a while I got quite good and could get some very neat edges, trimming with a knife as I went along.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20138.jpg)
Probably took me a good half day to do this, and there are still a few creases and mishapen bits that I need to come back and address, but that should be fairly easy to do.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20139.jpg)
Yes, I know that I have covered over a few access panels for the pedals and the rear gear linkage, but remember that this carpet is not glued down, all I need to do is remove the seats and seat belt stalks and the whole thing lifts out in one piece.
8)
Looking good ;-)up
Can't wai to see the matching curtains and cushions :D
Joking aside, it does look good. ;-)up ;-)up
Quote from: Buggybaggy on July 02, 2013, 07:39:20 AM
Can't wai to see the matching curtains and cushions :D
I thoughts cushions were supposed to contrast and not match . . . . :P
Curtains however? Hmm . . . Side curtains . . . .
Watch this space ;)
The next phase of the interior was to cover up the unsightly bulkhead. I cut two slots for the CB bracket to poke through the carpet, and this then ensured that everything would be hidden behind the carpet, including all the cables and any metalwork.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201310.jpg)
The easiest way to go around the shaped area at the top of the tunnel was to make a series of cuts, which would allow the material to flex more easily, and make it a much easier job for me to get the steamer in there.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201311.jpg)
The top edges of the carpet were glued in place with spray glue and the CB held the panel in the middle. I only glued the edges to make it easier to remove the carpet should I ever need to do so in the future, and its important to stress that when doing something like this to use proper high temperature "trim" spray and not ordinary carpet adhesive, as that can melt under the heat of the sunshine.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201312.jpg)
The lower edge also has a thin band of glue, just to keep it neat and tidy.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201313.jpg)
No point in stopping here though, I thought I might as well go for it and do the sides as well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201314.jpg)
And I think you will agree that it looks absolutely transformed, and far too good for my Buggy
8)
Brilliant...panel to panel carpeting ;-)up
looks good all in one piece dave ;-)up
Next up, was one of those little jobs that took a lot more effort than it should have done.
I wanted to do something with the handbrake, and there are various bolt on goodies about, but none of them ever seem to fit properly, so I thought I would see what I could do. There is no denying that the original rubber hedgehog is very good at what it does, and also prevents the metalwork from coming through it, so I wanted to retain that if I could.
The two side bolts that hold the heater controls were chopped off, meaning that I could get a nice stainless ring over the top and bolted down to the floorpan. A bit of fettling meant the Hedgehog is fitted too, although took a crowbar to get it into place.
The Handbrake aluminium end peice is simply slid into place and held by three grub screws, but rather than messing about screwing it on to the original shaft, I simply have the new ally button pressing against the old plastic button, meaning that the time taken to fit was shorter than writing about it - dead easy.
Finally, I got an old Richbrooke elasticated gaitor from eBay but had to shorten it by an inch or so, as was too long. Whilst doing this, I sewed in a cable tie to the front so that it would attatch firmly to the ally end piece. The elasticated part slips perfectly under the rim of the hedgehog at the back and is held in place very well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/handbrake.jpg)
Quite pleased with that one 8)
With the universal handbrake trim ring, also came a round ring and gaitor for the gearstick, but was designed for a very tall and thin shaft, so needed a bit of work.
I had to cut open the end of the material to get it over the reverse loop, but sewed in another cable tie to hold it all in place. The stainless ring was then bent to fit the tunnel and the whole lot screwed in place making sure that there was enough "give" in the material to allow the stick to move in all directions.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/gearstick.jpg)
As you know, I am intent on putting in a small sound system, and I`m using Marine equipment because I know how wet its going to get in there. My amplifier of choice for this project is the Clarion XC6410 because the internal circuitry is also water resistant.
The amplifier is positioned between the seat runners, making sure it doesn`t sit too proud and catch any of the mechanisms before it is bolted down into place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201315.jpg)
And then wired up with the correct sizes of cable. Its always worth asking about the right sizes of cables when wiring up an amp, as they can pull a lot more current that you think. This one can happily pull up to 50A from the battery, meaning an alternator conversion is also essential.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201316.jpg)
Not sure how well this idea is going to pan out, and I guess its a pretty questionable one as I am not following the norm here.
Wing beading: Its time to put the bonnet on, and I have been looking at what to do. Because I have altered my bonnet a lot, the shape is far from ideal, but it does mean that when it rains, it leaks like a sieve through the join to the body. I tried fitting the conventional wing beading, but it never sat right and left me with big gaps everywhere.
But I found some of this neoprene rubber section, and thought it might be worth a try, as it is soft enough to compress where it touches and will hopefully bulk out a bit where I have gaps.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201317.jpg)
To hold it in place, I used a strip of double sided tape, which I know won`t last forever, but as long as it stays there long enough for me to bolt the bonnet down, I don`t mind.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201318.jpg)
Time will tell on this one I guess. :-\
Quote from: Dave DND on July 07, 2013, 09:45:44 AM
The amplifier is positioned between the seat runners, making sure it doesn`t sit too proud and catch any of the mechanisms before it is bolted down into place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201315.jpg)
Makes me wonder if anyone has thought about installing under seat subs (apart from Miller ::) )
Quote from: Hazel on July 07, 2013, 11:13:48 AM
Quote from: Dave DND on July 07, 2013, 09:45:44 AM
The amplifier is positioned between the seat runners, making sure it doesn`t sit too proud and catch any of the mechanisms before it is bolted down into place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201315.jpg)
Makes me wonder if anyone has thought about installing under seat subs (apart from Miller ::) )
Its a amp not a sub ???
I know that ::) but you can get subs that fit under your seat (maybe not in a buggy if you want the seat to be low?) but if you wanted some sort of sound system in a buggy with a sub/subs? Like I've seen. And keep some space on the 'back seat' for luggage, sticking a sub under the seat could be a solution?
Those under seat subs you refer to are usually around 165mm drive cones and are pretty useless in anything except a very quiet and airtight car - around 20 years ago, we used to fit a "thumper" unit that was essentially a drive mechanism without a speaker cone, bonded to the floor, and it vibrated the chassis with a heavy "thud". It gave the illusion of extra bass, as the car would vibrate with the music, but haven`t seen them for a long time now.
:-)Geek
Quote from: Dave DND on July 02, 2013, 01:40:02 PM
.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201312.jpg)
Dave,
great build thread, can i ask a question. i notice you have an aero fuel filler, i want to do the same but i'm struggling to understand how you can fix it and get the bonnet off and also get your hands in to fix it all with the bonnet on. if that makes sense
how did you do yours?
can you explain in idiots speak please ;)
cheers
The picture here is a little deceiving, as the aero cap is in place purely to prevent fuel evapouration at the moment. However, I shall try to explain how it all goes together.
The aero cap funnel is bolted through the bonnet from the top and comes off with the bonnet. There is a small rubber pipe, same diameter as the filler neck with 2 jubilee clips on it. Bottom jubilee clip attatches to the tank and top jubilee clip attatches to the filler neck. If laying upside down in the footwells, I can easily reach the jubillee clip with a screwdriver to loosen or tighten accordingly.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/slope.jpg)
Does that help?
Quote from: Dave DND on July 07, 2013, 01:45:49 PM
The picture here is a little deceiving, as the aero cap is in place purely to prevent fuel evapouration at the moment. However, I shall try to explain how it all goes together.
The aero cap funnel is bolted through the bonnet from the top and comes off with the bonnet. There is a small rubber pipe, same diameter as the filler neck with 2 jubilee clips on it. Bottom jubilee clip attatches to the tank and top jubilee clip attatches to the filler neck. If laying upside down in the footwells, I can easily reach the jubillee clip with a screwdriver to loosen or tighten accordingly.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/slope.jpg)
Does that help?
yes, massively thank you
so if i'm right, the aero cap and pipe is permanently fixed to bonnet and the its a case of doing up the lower jubilee clip to the tank?
i didn't realise you could reach that lower clip to do up, thats the bit that was confusing me.
Cheers
dav
Quoteso if i'm right, the aero cap and pipe is permanently fixed to bonnet and the its a case of doing up the lower jubilee clip to the tank?
Exactly that !!
My filler neck is towards the rear of the tank, and fairly easy to get at - but really depends on how "flexible" you are
;)
Quote from: Dave DND on July 07, 2013, 02:19:38 PM
Exactly that !!
My filler neck is towards the rear of the tank, and fairly easy to get at - but really depends on how "flexible" you are
;)
So is mine, so hopefully i can reach round the back of the dash...although i have the flexibility of a lump of wood ;)
cheers
thats a clever setup there with the fuel fuller.
My old wiper mech often made some funny noises, and it was clear that it needed a major refurb - but what I hadn`t envisaged were the price of the spindles and bearings - it soon mounted up. :o
Unbelieveably, cheaper to buy a new rack from Heritage than repair mine.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201319.jpg)
Motor swapped over and bolted up into place
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201320.jpg)
And I achieved another major milestone today, and managed to finally bolt in the seats that I have been tripping over for the last twelve months.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201321.jpg)
Looks like you're ready to go!? 8)
Quote from: Hazel on July 07, 2013, 10:58:57 PM
Looks like you're ready to go!? 8)
Its so damn close, 99% of the little niggles are nearly fixed - and just when I think its potentially possible, I remember why it came off the road this time last year, and remember that I haven`t changed the engine yet.
::)
Still waiting on a few bits to arrive before I can start it up properly though - even on the old engine.
Some of you have asked how I attatch my screen to the roll cage, so I thought this might answer some of the questions and maybe inspire a different way of doing it.
I use a pair of these rubbers, which I think are possibly brake pads from a push bike - not entirely certain, but I had some kicking around the garage for some reason.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201322.jpg)
And these are pressed into a couple of holes at the top of my roll bar to give the screen something to rest against. I know it probably doesn`t need the exra support, but I figured that the screen is nothing more than a bent shower curtain rail, and could do with all the help it gets.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201323.jpg)
My roll cage has a couple of big plates welded to it, the top/front ones are for the screen and the lower/rear ones are for my dash.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201324.jpg)
Either side of my bonnet are the holes for the spacers
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201325.jpg)
And this is the clever bit - note the position of the nut.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201326.jpg)
The bolts (with nut wound to the end) pass through the metal mounting plate on the roll cage, through the spacer, and screw into the steel bar, but making sure the bolt remains slightly recessed on the end.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201327.jpg)
The frame is then slid over the metal bar, and once in place, the bolt is held in place whilst the nut is wound downwards, clamping the window frame against the sides of the spacer. I did it this way, because if you use bolts that are too long, you can very easily damage the frame if they are wound out too far, as the bolts will try to go through the frame and mark it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201328.jpg)
Remember that little rubber block at the start? Here you can see the top of the window resting against it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201329.jpg)
And from a sideways view, you can see how I made sure that the uppermost part of the window frame was higher than the roll bar. This was important to ensure that the roof looks good when pulled tight, and that the outline of the roll cage is not visable when the roof is on.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201330.jpg)
Screen on, wipers installed and I even found the box with the headlights in.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201331.jpg)
Really enjoying this Dave.
Looks very good indeed. Love the Cappo seats.
Ruth actually had one of the 1100 UK spec none import cappo's in red.
Was an absolute scream to drive . turbo'ed 647cc rear wheel drive.
Point was the seats were comfy even on long runs.
Lets hope that engine works for you.
Chad
I thought I would make the most of a warm summer evening and managed to get the dash back in and wired up. The Fusion Marine speakers are no longer being used for the audio, but have instead been wired up in series to give an 8 Ohm impedance for use an external speakers for the CB. I`m not sure about the colour of them at the moment, marine stuff is traditionally white, but it kind of clashes too much. Need to find a better bracket for holding the mic to the dash though, as I don`t like those metal ones.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201332.jpg)
Also played around with the SWR readings on the CB, and managed 1.2:1 on Ch1 and 1.3:1 on Ch40. I`m pretty chuffed with those readings, and that isn`t bad considering my aerial is bolted to the rear cage. Shame there is nobody on the air around here for me to check out if it works or not though.
:(
starting to look like a car now Dave !
thats lucky, as NEWS is coming up !!
A quick update on the CB Radio.
The NEWS weekend showed a problem with the CB radio that I had not envisaged - the default settings of my rig were "Euro" and not "UK" which meant I had to do a bit of reprogramming before I had anyone else to talk to - easy fix though.
Another easy fix was the Mic bracket I spoke of previously - I said I didn`t like the metal one, and in just 3 months it has started to go rusty, so I have searched about for something different. I came across some black plastic ones that are used for PMR and Taxi radios, and I think you will agree that they look much better.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201345.jpg)
Holds the Mic nicely too.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201346.jpg)
over the last few years ( I kid you not) I have been racking my brain what I could use for this as the top of my screen matches the height of my cage exactly ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201322.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201323.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201330.jpg)
Nice to be back in the garage and working on the Buggy at last.
First up is to amend something that I got very wrong in my recent rebuild. I fitted a fuel breather valve from a bike and positioned it at the bottom of the A-Post, just behind the screen - and it is functioning exactly as intended. It has removed all the tank pressurising issues I had, and judging by the amount of fuel vapour coming out, it is not only doing its job, its working overtime.
And thats the problem I now have, as the vapour is now coming straight into the cabin, and driving with the roof on is somewhat overpowering with the smell of fuel. I have looked at a few different locations to mount the valve, but cannot find anything that is really suitable, so I thought I would pinch a bit of inspiration from Peter and use a windscreen washer jet as my fuel valve instead. The hole in the jet is small enough to allow air pressure to escape when at temperature, enough to prevent tank vaccuum as fuel empties, and the holes are too small to allow any water ingress. I quickly drilled a new jet into the bonnet and will try it out for a while, and if it works, then I`ll tidy it up a bit when the bonnet comes off a bit later to be reshaped and a better job made of it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20143.jpg)
Quote from: Dave DND on April 16, 2014, 10:58:55 PM
Nice to be back in the garage and working on the Buggy at last.
First up is to amend something that I got very wrong in my recent rebuild. I fitted a fuel breather valve from a bike and positioned it at the bottom of the A-Post, just behind the screen - and it is functioning exactly as intended. It has removed all the tank pressurising issues I had, and judging by the amount of fuel vapour coming out, it is not only doing its job, its working overtime.
And thats the problem I now have, as the vapour is now coming straight into the cabin, and driving with the roof on is somewhat overpowering with the smell of fuel. I have looked at a few different locations to mount the valve, but cannot find anything that is really suitable, so I thought I would pinch a bit of inspiration from Peter and use a windscreen washer jet as my fuel valve instead. The hole in the jet is small enough to allow air pressure to escape when at temperature, enough to prevent tank vaccuum as fuel empties, and the holes are too small to allow any water ingress. I quickly drilled a new jet into the bonnet and will try it out for a while, and if it works, then I`ll tidy it up a bit when the bonnet comes off a bit later to be reshaped and a better job made of it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20143.jpg)
I have the same problem at the moment with the smell of fuel in the cab....not a good thing when you have passengers :-[ :-[
You`ve only fitted this recently but have you managed to test it as I may tag on to the pinching of inspiration :)
Its a tried and tested method that I pinched from Peter -
Not done that many miles yet, but so far the difference it has made is very encouraging
No more smelly fuel in the cabin ;-)up
Quote from: Dave DND on April 27, 2014, 03:59:49 PM
Its a tried and tested method that I pinched from Peter -
Not done that many miles yet, but so far the difference it has made is very encouraging
No more smelly fuel in the cabin ;-)up
If It gets rid of the smelly fuel in the cab that`s a good thing, will give it a go, cheers ;-)up
Only one smelly thing left to sort... ;D
I know that there are many arguments over Discs Vs Drums and which is best, and if I am totally honest, even when towing the trailer, I have never really had any issues with my standard drums on the front except one - they constantly need adjusting, so it was time to investigate a disc conversion.
Something I hadn`t considered was that most 14" wheels are said to foul the calipers, so a quick mock up to see how much clearance I had with my 7x14 Wolfrace Slots was called for.
(http://beachbuggy.info/Buggypedia/Brakes/brakes001.jpg)
There was enough room to get a fag packet where the caliper goes, so as far as I was concerned, the conversion was GO!
(http://beachbuggy.info/Buggypedia/Brakes/brakes002.jpg)
The conversion kit (With Beach Buggy Discount) came in at just under £220 from GSF and included everything - Discs, Carriers, Bearings, Hoses, Pads, and looked to be fairly straightforward to do.
This was to be my starting point:
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20144.jpg)
I cannot praise this little balljoint separator tool highly enough - simply loosen the balljoint nut, pop this in place, and wind the nut in until the joint separates. Only had trouble with the main lower balljoint nut, as it had seized on the shaft which was now turning, but after cutting a slot in the top to hold it steady with a screwdriver, all went well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20145.jpg)
And it really is that simple, once you have disconnected the track rod end joint, upper and lower balljoints, the old drum assembly can be removed in one unit - remember its heavy, and you may need to apply a bit of upwards pressure to the torsion arms to get it free. The new carrier then simply bolts back in its place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20146.jpg)
My kit even came with drilled discs (Bonus!) but if you are fitting these yourself, remember that drilled discs are handed and must be fitted to the correct side as shown. Press in and pack the wheel bearings, connect the hoses, adjust the tracking and then time to bleed the brakes.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20147.jpg)
I used one of those "single person" brake bleed kits that operate by applying a vacuum to the bleed nipple and essentially suck the bubbles out of the system in one go. What a pile of poo ! It doesn`t work very well, gets through fluid as fast as you can top up the reservoir, and due to ill fitting of its parts, seems to supply a constant stream of bubbles for as long as you like. Ended up doing it the old fashioned way, with someone pumping the pedal for me.
So . . . . . How did it drive?
Answer . . . . Bloody Awfull !!
The brakes were working, but the trouble was that there was so much pedal travel that it really didn`t inspire confidence. Don`t get me wrong here, the brakes locked up just fine, slowed the car down a treat, no spongy feel to them at all, its just that when you pressed the pedal it traveled the full distance all the way down to the floor.
I was made aware of a device called a Residual Pressure Valve, and told that this was what I needed. What it did was to maintain 2 psi of pressure in the brake lines to the front calipers so that when you pressed the pedal, you already had a starting pressure rather than starting from scratch. They are supposed to be fitted as close to the master cylinder as possible in order to maintain pressure through the whole hose, and in the case of my twin circuit brakes, I needed to fit one to each caliper.
Dave Fisher of Kingfisher Kustoms came up trumps with a pair of these for me, and I decided to fit them just before the flexible hose as shown here.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20148.jpg)
A quick bleed of the brakes again, and time to try it out.
Oh my! What a transformation ! The pedal was not only good and firm, but was biting back at the top of its travel again and felt good.
So . . . . I know the question you are going to ask me now . . . .
Was it worth doing the Conversion? Are the discs any better ?
Well, Apart from the obvious one that they no longer need adjusting, I don`t honestly think that they stop any better than a well adjusted set of drums, even when towing the trailer. However, what is very noticeable is the smoothness of the braking, whereas the drums always felt a bit "Wooden" the discs feel very smooth and "progressive" and for that alone, I would say that the discs most certainly win as the car is much nicer to drive and stop as a result.
Good write up. Do gsf do a kit for king and linkers? Convinced me to do mines in the future.
I`m sure someone will do a kit for K&L suspension ;-)up
Its well worth investing in though, the difference in applying the brakes is quite something - ;-)up
Very interesting as I have thought my brake pedal had a lot of travel since doing my disc conversion earlier in the year, like yours they do stop ok but you have to push the pedal a lot further down I thought it was just me ::)
Looks like I will be investing in some residual pressure valves! ;-)up
Quote from: kenny h on October 02, 2014, 10:28:44 AM
Very interesting as I have thought my brake pedal had a lot of travel since doing my disc conversion earlier in the year, like yours they do stop ok but you have to push the pedal a lot further down I thought it was just me ::)
Looks like I will be investing in some residual pressure valves! ;-)up
A quick tip on that one - Don`t bother with the cheapie ones from eBay as they do not seal very well on the brake lines - The ones from Kingfisher are absolutely spot on, and if you also obtain a male>male brake pipe thread adaptor it makes fitting them where I did an absolute doddle.
;-)up
Looking on Kingfisher site now as reading your other post I wouldn't bother with eBay, did you get the male>male adaptor from them too?
No, I had a couple of Male>Male adaptors left over from a previous project - Worth asking Dave though, he may well have some, but just watch the thread sizes if searching the net, as most listed are USA ones which are different. The valves I used for the front are also 2psi ones
I think (someone will tell me if I am wrong) that the reason you get too much travel after a conversion is all down to the diameter of the cylinder in the disc along with the fact that the disc pads come off the disc and can push right back.
What I mean is that for a small movement on drum brakes you push a relatively small amount of fluid into the wheel cylinders as they are quite small bore, take your foot off and the shoes come back to the adjusters and only push a small amount of fluid back.
With discs on the other hand the cylinder is much larger diameter and when the pads come off the discs they are free to drift right back forcing a lot of fluid out that you have to put back in before they bite again, a small amount of pressure in the system solves this.
The real danger comes when the pads are worn down and you could reach the point where it needs a pump to refill the cylinders after a long run without braking. This is usually after a long run at high speed so can be a bit buttock clenching.
When I put discs on my Anglia 105e in 1970 pressure valves werent available so I fitted a larger bore master cylinder to solve the problem but it really exercised my right leg when I needed to brake hard ;D
Hope you dont mind me waffling on your thread but I always like to know why something happens and even more why a gadget fixes it
All t he best
Dave
Quote from: Doon L001 on October 02, 2014, 12:26:27 PM
Hope you dont mind me waffling on your thread but I always like to know why something happens and even more why a gadget fixes it
The problem arises because unlike the 1303 Disc brake master cylinder that doesn`t fit Buggies very easily (but often had RPV`s attatched), the master cylinders we have all ended up with were never meant to be used with Disc brakes, and do indeed suffer with varying pressure issues because of the differing sizes of pistons and bores as you have correctly described. I too, have heard of so many stories of people swapping master cylinders and brake cylinders around the car from front to back in order to achieve a useable system, and I was dreading having to go down this experimental route myself. Using the RPV to keep the lines pressurised means that the first press of the pedal overcomes the varying bore sizes by minimising the need to initially bring the hoses up to pressure and means that the pad to disc contact happens far sooner as a result. I have now driven this in anger too, and can report that the braking effect is really positive as a result.
;-)up
Good write up Dave the biggest bonus is disc dry out faster and more evenly in the flood conditions you get down there during winter..
??? Never thought of disc drying times in the wet ;-)up ;-)up
Quote from: Dave DND on October 02, 2014, 12:43:25 PM
Quote from: Doon L001 on October 02, 2014, 12:26:27 PM
Hope you dont mind me waffling on your thread but I always like to know why something happens and even more why a gadget fixes it
The problem arises because unlike the 1303 Disc brake master cylinder that doesn`t fit Buggies very easily (but often had RPV`s attatched), the master cylinders we have all ended up with were never meant to be used with Disc brakes, and do indeed suffer with varying pressure issues because of the differing sizes of pistons and bores as you have correctly described. I too, have heard of so many stories of people swapping master cylinders and brake cylinders around the car from front to back in order to achieve a useable system, and I was dreading having to go down this experimental route myself. Using the RPV to keep the lines pressurised means that the first press of the pedal overcomes the varying bore sizes by minimising the need to initially bring the hoses up to pressure and means that the pad to disc contact happens far sooner as a result. I have now driven this in anger too, and can report that the braking effect is really positive as a result.
;-)up
Funny you should say that as my pan is a 1302S I thought mine might have such a master cylinder but alas obviously not ::)
Looks good dude, bet your pleased with the outcome ;-)up
Certainly am mate ;-)up
Now I`ve got it stopping properly, next on the agenda is the long awaited engine upgrade
I`ve been saying to myself that I need to change the engine for a good few years now, and finally it has taken a major leap forwards. Because I`m removing this on my own and cannot rely on Lisa to catch it if it goes horribly wrong, I decided to strip down as much heavy stuff as I could from the old engine to make it a bit lighter to manhandle. I left the inlet manifold on though, as it made a good grab handle
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20149.jpg)
Once the engine was out, a little voice in the back of my head said to try a crowbar between the gearbox and the cradle, and I`m damn glad I did, as it showed that one of the mounts had completely come away from the rubber block. Better I found this out now that later, and after a quick trip to GSF, two new engine mounts were fitted.
Glad to see that you have a tray under the engine to keep that nice new floor clean Dave it must be great working in the new garage ;-)up
Are you fitting the electronic ignition to your new engine as well?
Hope it's going together easily enough for you.
Yep ;-)up
Electronic ignition and pertronix coil are being transferred over, and at the moment I`m attacking the tinware with an angle grinder to make my oil pressure sender fit, as I use a combined pressure and warning one that is a lot bigger than the hole is currently. Pics to follow shortly.
green body on a blue chassis now that's the way very cool you will have the engine in no time pal a bit at a time......
Around 3 years ago, I went through the motions of putting a Subaru lump in the back, and by chance, even ended up with an engine and convertor plate, only to find out that the engine was once the property of Sawmill Jim, who really regretted selling it. Only fair then that a three way deal was struck, and I ended up with a fully rebuilt 1600cc engine from John Gurney, (a highly respected fabricator) as a result. That sat buried in the depths of my garage, and out of reach for a few years whilst my new garage was being rebuilt. After the 2014 IBW trip to Holland, I had the opportunity of driving Chad`s Buggy for a good few miles, and came to the conclusion that I really wanted an even bigger engine. Farmer Rob is well known on here for his engine building skills and expertise, so when his own 2.0 litre (1970cc) Type 25 CU engine came up for grabs recently, knowing its pedigree, I just had to have it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201412.jpg)
Like the engine that came out, I stripped down as much as I could to save some weight for lifting it in on my own, but with those heat exchangers on, its still a REALLY heavy lump - I could have removed them, but as you can see, they make a nice stable platform to sit on and start with. The rear fan was also left on, as was far easier than using the traditional spanner on the crankshaft to give that last obligatory turn to line up the gearbox splines. A top tip that I have learned over the years, is to place a flat piece of wood under the trolly jack, as it makes for a really smooth action when moving the jack forwards and aligning everything up.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201415.jpg)
And The block went straight in, with little or no fuss. To me it looks more like a jet turbine than an old van engine here, but will start to resemble a VW engine again once all the tinware comes back from the powder coaters.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201416.jpg)
I must confess that I had not realised just how much spare space would be left over on top of this engine - that old doghouse took up a lot more room than you might think.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201418.jpg)
For those that are contemplating this conversion, please note that the CU engine requires some modifications and machining to the flywheel to allow the gearbox shaft to fit into it, and a blanking plate for the fuel pump. But thats about the only bit of converting that needs doing, the rest is just pipes and cables (or so I hope)
Welcome Dave to the type 4 buggy club.
Its seems to be getting popular to fit a type 4 engine you might want to start a type 4 conversion in the tips and tricks section.
Lots of space there now for a hidden luggage compartment! Wire in a fridge to work off the engine.. You know it makes sense! :D :D :D :D
Fridge ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Keep the drinks cool for the beach ;) or the beers cool for after the cruise!
Quote from: apmaman on October 08, 2014, 11:31:04 AM
Keep the drinks cool for the beach ;) or the beers cool for after the cruise!
I like your thinking :D
What adaptors did you use for your pressure valves?
These are the valves on the left that I got from Kingfisher Customs - they are rated at 2psi which is what is required for front discs.
The adaptors shown on the right are simply male to male adaptors that you can probably find on ebay or similar, and makes fitting an absolute doddle. Where my brake lines from the master cylinder screw into the flexible hose, these were undone, and the RPV with the adaptor was screwed in place. The beauty of this is that there is minimal faffing about with brake pipes and you can easily get access to them.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201411.jpg)
Check your thread size, but this may be a start
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAKE-PIPE-UNION-IN-LINE-CONNECTOR-DOUBLE-MALE-METRIC-X5-/251121002593?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3a77fa6861
I assume with the adapters the RPVs can be screwed in to the master cylinder also. For instance on the single rear brake line if fitting rear discs too
Quote from: Shaggy on October 15, 2014, 09:13:43 AM
I assume with the adapters the RPVs can be screwed in to the master cylinder also. For instance on the single rear brake line if fitting rear discs too
They can . . . . However, if I screwed the front ones directly in to my cylinder there is not actually that much space around them and the overall length meant that they fouled on bodywork / reservoir etc. The place I fitted them is near as dammit as close to master cylinder as I could get, and the pipes move / bend a lot easier here than they do when they are closer in.
If fitting for a rear though, I think you need to use a 4psi RPV instead - check first ;)
Dave my 2psi is fine for my rears.
I think you'll find it's going to be holding 2psi throughout the whole pipe so no need to double up.
Quote from: Roadrunner on October 15, 2014, 09:35:13 AM
I think you'll find it's going to be holding 2psi throughout the whole pipe so no need to double up.
You are quite correct, however I`m using one on each side at the front rather than one for the pair ;)
Quote from: Dave DND on October 15, 2014, 07:44:42 AM
These are the valves on the left that I got from Kingfisher Customs - they are rated at 2psi which is what is required for front discs.
The adaptors shown on the right are simply male to male adaptors that you can probably find on ebay or similar, and makes fitting an absolute doddle. Where my brake lines from the master cylinder screw into the flexible hose, these were undone, and the RPV with the adaptor was screwed in place. The beauty of this is that there is minimal faffing about with brake pipes and you can easily get access to them.
Check your thread size, but this may be a start
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAKE-PIPE-UNION-IN-LINE-CONNECTOR-DOUBLE-MALE-METRIC-X5-/251121002593?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3a77fa6861
Great thanks for the link I need to get some of these, got my in-line valves from McGill's in the end where Gordon recommended just need the male to male adapters ;-)up
Cheers Dave!
I got RPV's from kingfisher too, they were EMPI' ones and do look slightly different to yours. Im sure the thread on them is different too, not the metric one the beetles use... Will send it off somewhere so I get the correct fitment..
As dress up bits for my new engine are virtually non-existant, I decided to send some bits away to be powder coated. The quality of the metal to start with was not that great, and there are lots of creases and holes associated with the poor quality material that the Type4 tinware is made from, but that said and done, I`m pretty pleased with the chrome effect job that has transpired.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201420.jpg)
The rear fan housing is really badly pitted, and although Muzzy is trying desperately to polish his one, I decided that there just weren`t enough hours in the day to go down this route, and neither did I think the poor quality with all its holes and roughness would look any good if finished in a shiney colour either, so I had them powder coated also in a matte black to match the block itself and figured that it would be a good base to show off the shiney bits bolted to it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201421.jpg)
Before the tinware was sent away, I had to modify a couple of the bits so that my oversized oil sender unit could be fitted. This dual output sender comes from an Audi 100, and runs both the oil pressure warning light and my oil pressure gauge together. Good to see that it pokes through the hole I made quite nicely.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201423.jpg)
The powder coat does not have the same "Bling factor" as chrome does, thats for certain, and the finish looks more like a cross between polished aluminium and dull stainless, but I think you will agree that it does bring a new lease of life to an old engine by transforming it in this way.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201424.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201425.jpg)
Powder Coating was done by Wings & Sons, just outside Totnes, Devon
http://www.wingspowdercoating.co.uk/
8)
That looks good Dave much better than my front & rear cages that were supposedly powder coated in chrome ;-)up
I'm sure he just did them in normal silver or it might just be because they are fairly small diameter tubes you don't get the full effect like your tinwear, I must say they weren't done be my normal fella at Willow Powder Coaters so always use him now & he won't do chrome
Cheers mate ;-)up
I can see why most powder coaters dislike the chrome effect, as it shows up every single pit, scratch and blemish against a mirrored finish, so can look a little "rough" when compared with other coloured finishes. I always reckon that if people are looking that hard at small imperfections, then they are missing the bigger picture. Won`t notice it anyway once it gets dirty.
;)
He said he doesn't do it as often people aren't very happy with it for that reason you can't beat chrome for finish I guess but not always possible plus expensive, not sure how true but he also told me the way they have to do the chrome finish powder coating it's not as resilient as normal finishes :-\
You are correct about not being as resilient as other finishes, which is why mine also has a clear cote laquer over the top - which does "dull" it down a bit. If you want a blingy Chrome finish, then there isn`t really a substitute for chrome, but oh my, thats prohibitively expensive
I got quoted near on £300 each for those top panels alone, and when you think I only paid £85 for 14 bits done in two colours, it does put things into perspective.
Not sure I could have done this with a rattle can for the same price, let alone time it would have taken ???
Quote from: kenny h on October 17, 2014, 11:36:15 AM
He said he doesn't do it as often people aren't very happy with it for that reason you can't beat chrome for finish I guess but not always possible plus expensive, not sure how true but he also told me the way they have to do the chrome finish powder coating it's not as resilient as normal finishes :-\
Ken
I have just had my wheels done in high chrome by willows and he said that they have change the clear lacquer and its much better so he will start using it again.
(http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a436/mickb22/Buggy/2014-10-18110830_zps76fc6692.jpg)
Dave I'm very impressed with the finish that is very shiny and more of a chrome effect than my wheels maybe they are using a newer powder.
mick
Been busy in the garage these past few days and pretty much run out of bits to bolt back on to the engine.
I have not yet decided whether to run a catch tank for the breather / oil system as yet, purely because the engine is in such good condition (thanks Rob) that I don`t think I`ll need one, so rather than messing about with braided pipe, I thought I would try a different look, and raided my spares box of silicone hosing instead. Only thing left to sort out is the alternator, and you can see where I want to hang / locate it, and how much room that there isn`t between the fan and the cylinder head (140mm)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201426.jpg)
Electronic Ignition has been fitted, courtesy of one of my other engines, and the obligatory green cable ties used in abundance - even found some blue ones to keep the HT leads tidy.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201427.jpg)
Hopefully we will have a dry weekend, and I can then pull it out into the open and fire it up
:D
The engine fired up a treat - no problems whatsoever.
I needed to get the rear cage modified to fit around the new engine, and it just so happened that my mate in Torquay had a few hours spare and no cars in his workshop, so a quick belt down the road was called for. This had to be quick though, as the alternator problem had not been solved at this point (more on that later) so I had to get there and back on battery charge alone.
My rear cage looks like this, and after a quick measure up, it transpired that everything was perfectly in line, and just needed to be extended by 100mm to cope with the extra length of engine hanging out the back. The easiest way to do this was to cut and sleeve the bars as can be seen by the uppermost one, and once the length was right, they could be welded up.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201429.jpg)
It was offered up to the Buggy, and everything seemed to look good
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201430.jpg)
I wanted the cage to be a fairly close fit to the engine, and from what we could see, we had no problems. The oil filler pipe will be relocated at a later date, so we were not too worried by that one just yet.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201431.jpg)
And the join is only just visible if you get down on your hands and knees to peer under the rear arches.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201432.jpg)
Out with the welder to make it secure, and then we can tackle the towbar brackets. Only once we have finished with the metalwork under the engine will I then know how much space I have left to play around with for an exhaust system.
The Alternator (or lack of) has given me a lot of head scratching over the last few weeks. The original location was stuck out, up high on the right hand side, which limited my options for putting a set of Cannons there, and I really wanted to tuck the alternator close in to the engine like they do on the type 4. My engine is in fact a late model type 25, and unlike the type four, does not use a fan duct cooled 35 amp dynamo or 40A alternator, but more troublesome was that I didn`t have the bottom bracket on my fan housing to mount it on either. I often thought that the Type 4 and Type 25 were very similar, but have since found out that they are indeed worlds apart. Ok, so fabricating a bracket is not a problem, we can do that, and luckily there were a few holes that I managed to cut a thread into. All I needed to do is find an alternator that fits. And this was a major headache, as just about every alternator that I managed to beg scrounge and borrow was just too long in length, and either the rear casing or in many cases, the battery terminal would foul the cylinder head tinware.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201434.jpg)
Someone suggested to look at the John Deere lawnmowers, and it was whilst checking out a local farm specialist that I took a peek inside one of their Toyota Forklift trucks and spotted this little beauty - it had a flat belt pulley on the front, but that was an easy swap. After a bit of research, it transpired that it also shared its origins with a 2006 Toyota Hiace V-Box 2.5 D-4D 4x4 vehicles and had a 65A output, which meant I could now obtain one through a local parts factor.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201435.jpg)
After looking round the workshop, I came across a hefty piece of angled stainless plate, and I think Heath Robinson would be very proud of the top bracket that was knocked up.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201436.jpg)
Now that the Alternator was hanging and swinging on the top bracket, a lower bracket was made with an adjuster on it, and looked so awful that we sprayed it black
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201437.jpg)
Not the prettiest of solutions, granted, but the Alternator seems to be lined up, the belt has stayed on and its now charging the battery
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201438.jpg)
Well done Dave coming along nicely I like the rear cage tucked in close to the engine that looks really cool ;-)up
That looks like it was meant to be there, VW are maasters of subtle changes that you do not notice until you try to fit something
Wow! ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201430.jpg)
Apologies one and all, but I`m going to have to put you all through some of my ramblings on here for a second time, as due to a recent moderator error this thread recently got deleted by mistake, and some of it is now going to have to be rewritten.
So . . . . Where was I . . . .
. . . Ah, yes . . . I remember now . . . .
Sit back and here we go again (http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/coke%20and%20popcorn.gif)
Volkswagen Owners worst nightmare - and it happened to me.
You know that little bubble you see in the paintwork that you put your finger on, to find out that you go through it, to then find that the paint flakes off, so you grab a screwdriver to chip away the loose rust, and before you know it, you are left with something like this.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20151.jpg)
Luckily for me , I have an Adam at the end of the road, and although I could already see daylight through my beam, he decided to make the hole even bigger with a deft bit of grinding. Panic was really starting to set in by this stage.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20153.jpg)
But I didn`t fret for long, as by the time I had remembered why I had gone to see Adam he had fabricated this little panel and welded it in place. Luckily for me, the welding that had been done on the other side many years ago was still good and strong.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20154.jpg)
A quick undercoat of black hammerrite (run out of blue) and I could then drive back home in the rain.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20155.jpg)
Once I got home, I tidied it up a bit, filled it full of grease and gave it a nice liberal coat of blue hammerrite.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20156.jpg)
Job done, and very relieved that this did not result in a replacement beam. ;-)up
With the minor irritation of the beam sorted, I could now refocus my attention to what has become a monumental task of getting this alternator right.
The belts and pulleys are perfectly in line, tension is good, but every time I start the car there is a very brief squeal coming from the back as the engine first turns over. The noise disappears as fast as it is heard, and does not come back if the engine is revved. Worryingly though, was a minor layer of black dust that was starting to form across the face of the alternator.
I soon discovered that there was a slight imperfection on the face of the alternator pulley, but the trouble was that I had no idea what the pulley was off, making sourcing a replacement nigh on impossible. However, from trawling the local parts factors, I managed to obtain a slightly larger diameter pulley which was also a lot thicker too. After a quick session on the lathe, it was reduced to the same thickness as the old one.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20157.jpg)
Rather than copy the exact size of the old pulley, this one was left slightly larger, as it would then mean that I could now utilise a standard off the shelf sized belt for my engine.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20158.jpg)
All fitted, and squeak has gone away. ;-)up
The alternator appears to be working just fine now, but I am very aware that it is somewhat exposed and could do with some sort of guard on it. Eventually, I will look at doing something fancy, possibly even in stainless, but I have many other things to deal with at the moment, so the priority is really about working with what I have here as a temporary measure.
Using the original mesh style fan guard, I chopped it about a bit, sliced a few bits off and made a rough pattern ready for it to have some bits welded on to it, and that meant heading back over to Bills workshop, which does appear to be my second home at the moment.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/bill.jpg)
I`m sure I left yesterday with Bill in exactly the same position - not sure if he is working or has simply fallen asleep. Still, big respect to him, he worked his nuts off yesterday with non stop welding and I`m fairly certain I can hear snoring. Seems a shame to wake him, but there is still a hell of a lot more to be done yet.
Didn`t take long before this emerged. I know its only supposed to be temporary, but I must admit that I quite like it
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20159.jpg)
It fits a treat around the oil filler pipe too, and I am a bit stumped at the moment as to how to tackle that particular one, but with so many other bits to finish on the car, designing a new oil filler is way down on the list of priorities.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201510.jpg)
But what is fast approaching the top of the priority list is that exhaust system. Apart from being the ugliest exhaust system on the planet, its actually not mine, and has been graciously lent to me by Farmer Rob, so that the Buggy can at least drive about under its own steam.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201511.jpg)
Dave
know the oil filler isnt a priority but it does show a bit :D
Have you considered a bit of stainless tube that just fits over it? Wouldnt be perfect but even with the existing black screw top much better.
With your new found stainless welding skills (or mate who does it) could even get a top made to cover the black filler
My welding skills are still somewhat limited as you know and Bill is still concentrating on the exhaust at the moment - last I saw he was chopping the ends off the silencers and told me to bugger off and leave him to it - more on that later.
;D
However, I agree that oil pipe does look somewhat out of place - It actually looks a lot worse in the photos looking up at it than it does when looking down. I would ultimately like to relocate it somewhere different, but that really depends on how the exhaust pans out and how much space is left. It would be good to make something shiney out of stainless though, and I still have a few of the aftermarket oil filler necks from the old setup that it would be good if they could be utilised. Because the plastic tube is tapered with a big flange at one end, a makeshift sleeve is not as easy to attach as you suggest.
Priority at the moment though is just to get it back on the road for Stoneleigh and IBW.
Mid February 2015, I got offered one of those opportunities that you just cannot say no to, and it involved the Buggy returning to a former home. Many years ago, my mate Bill was kicked out of a large Main Dealership workshop in Torquay due to the site being purchased and redeveloped by a supermarket chain. Several years later, despite the emergence of a large retail unit next door, one of the less accessible workshops had been stripped out and simply abandoned. Not much in the way of electrics, although the single plug socket still fed the kettle and the ramps were easily commissioned. No water, no toilet, no tools and a very rickety wooden door that was about to fall off. But there was one good thing about it, Bill was once more in possession of a lease (and the keys) and over the next few months, he plans to rebuild it and open it up once more as Powercraft Engineering. But in the meantime, I was more than welcome to park the Buggy on the ramps for the duration and leave it on them to work on. Brilliant !
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201513.jpg)
And first up was one of those messy jobs that is so awkward if your car is not in the air. The underside had not received much attention since I painted it all those years ago, and with any luck, the liberal coating of blue hammerrite should mean it can go untouched for another few years to go yet.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201514.jpg)
There is however a minor inconvenience to this current arrangement, and that is that I have to remember exactly what tools to take with me to cover every eventuality, else its a return trip back to Paignton for something as simple as say a screwdriver for opening the tin of paint.
:-X
Something that has become very apparent during this engine swap, is the extra weight of the new 2 litre block. A lot of weight is also carried within those heat exchangers which are to be ditched obviously, but even without them fitted, the rear end of the Buggy is noticeably lower than it should be and although I have not yet driven this thing in anger (or even above 30mph) the uneven road surfaces around here are clearly highlighting that I also have a fair degree of bounce going on.
I could have gone down the simple route of raising the back end on the splines, but I figured that while I was playing with that many bits, I may as well go the whole hog and fit adjustable spring plates while i was at it. For those that are unawares, the idea behind these is that they have a large grub screw that can be screwed in and out, with the rear suspension being raised or lowered as a result. I figured that this would also be a sensible option to take considering I have also been known to tow my trailer tent.
With a total lack of emergency tools here, and a gut feeling that this could go spectacularly wrong, I decided to drive back to Paignton to visit a mate of mine, and boy am I glad I did, because yes, it did go horribly wrong and my friend came to the rescue.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201515.jpg)
A word of caution to anyone contemplating this popular conversion. You see, despite several calls to Heritage to confirm that I was ordering the correct one for my car, and that all I needed to change were these actual spring plates and nothing else, it turned out mid way through the conversion that they were talking utter rubbish. The torsion tubes on the IRS back end are much longer than the ones used for the swing axle, which is why I have the small tube sticking out just in front of the rear wheels, and the muppet at Heritage (who has obviously never done this) assured me that these tubes were correct for this conversion. My mate took one look at them and informed me that I needed the shorter torsion bars, which then meant new spring plate covers and bushes. I didn`t mind the bushes so much, as I had banked on replacing those anyway, but replacement torsion bars were not something I had factored into this conversion.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/rant.gif)
Anyway, he had all the bits I needed squirreled away in his Aladdins Cave, and promptly fitted it all and then adjusted it all up for me. ;-)up
Right then, car is now on autopilot back to the other workshop. (http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/voiture.gif)
Dave as you found out the longer irs torsion bars are more progressive and softer to start with than swing axle ones, i must admit I have considered swapping the kango back to stiffer swing axle bars as it is soft and wallows like a 2cv but it does smooth the bumps out.
You could have got some standard used beetle bars instead of new ones also looks like the summer chrome end plates of which there are 2 sets here you could have had but guess time was against you.
The other problem with buggies is year of registration generally does not coincide with chassis year but even then things get welded on and modified to add to vw's build changes over the years
At least it is nearer completion.
Snoopy,
I hadn`t actually realised that there was a difference between the longer and shorter bars in their performance, but thinking about it, the extra length does kind of make sense. The ride quality pre-engine swap was really nice, and I do hope that this will not have spoilt it too much.
The bars Adam found me were indeed used, (those things new are quite pricey) and yes, I can hear those summer end plates fizzing as we speak - I will pick up a set of the stainless ones that I saw someone on here with ( Shaggy? ) in due course.
Thats a good point about year of registration, and chassis, especially as those of us with IRS conversions fitted may actually have these from a different vehicle completely. Not for the first time have I been told that my engine cradle and mounts look like they may originate from a Karmann Ghia, where I was always under the impression that they may have come from a Type 3.
:-\
Oh, the irony.
Many moons ago now, I picked up a Karmann Ghia tow bar for my Buggy, and it was quite an extensive job to shorten it to fit the Buggy. Who knew that a few years later we would be extending it again by four inches. This was done a while back over the Christmas months, but I have been unable to fit it until now because the length of it fouls the rear silencer.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201516.jpg)
The tow bar has been extended in front of the gearbox lower mounting, meaning that all the other bolts and fittings remain as they were.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201517.jpg)
Its good to see the bar back on there again, and I`m so relieved that it is still centralised
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201518.jpg)
Due to the extension in length, a new cable had to also be run for the electrics, and this time I have put a waterproof socket in place so that the bar can be quickly unplugged and removed if needed again in the future.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201519.jpg)
I keep looking up at that oil filter there, so think that could be a quick and easy job to get out of the way too ;-)up
When the rear suspension was being upgraded a few weeks ago, I also researched into putting some new shocks on there too. There is much debate over whether the rear mounts are strong enough to take coil over shocks although when you hear that people like Snoopy have fitted them to the back of his Kango which has a heavy Fiat lump in, you do tend to question what the fuss is all about. Anyway, rather than raising the back end using coil overs with adjustable ride height, as you know, I instead went down the route of adjustable spring plates. What was called for now, was a nice set of shocks, preferably gas assisted with adjustable damping, so that I could fine tune it if necessary.
Researching the net, I quickly came across the GAZ website http://www.gazshocks.com and after a quick phone to them was pleasantly surprised to find that they would custom make me a set for around £55 + vat each - thats cheaper than many of the standard off the shelf ones.
All they needed from me was the mounting sizes of the bolts and rings, the distance of travel from extended to closed, and of course, payment. Three weeks later, these arrived and took but a few moments to fit.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201520.jpg)
Something I had not considered though was that when fitted, the adjusters are located within the lower box section of the arms making it a little tricky, but not impossible to alter. Whilst the adjusters are still free to turn and set, I can just about get my fingers in there, but if they ever sieze up, then it may be another matter.
Thats pretty good value Dave. Re getting at the adjusters I would have thought once you have got it right then you wont need to get at them or are you thinking adjust when trailer on and off? Get the nose weight right and you should be OK on your normal setting (I think).
Looking forward to seeing this at Stoneleigh, then the bright ideas for that oil filler will pour out - bring a note book ;-)up
Quote from: Doon L001 on April 10, 2015, 11:52:35 AM
Re getting at the adjusters I would have thought once you have got it right then you wont need to get at them or are you thinking adjust when trailer on and off? Get the nose weight right and you should be OK on your normal setting (I think).
Agreed - once nose weight is correct, the settings should be fine, and any difference in height / loading can also be adjusted by the sway aways.
Quote from: Doon L001 on April 10, 2015, 11:52:35 AM
Looking forward to seeing this at Stoneleigh, then the bright ideas for that oil filler will pour out - bring a note book ;-)up
Note book ? Surely you mean hacksaw, pipebender and tools ;D
Would be very interested to hear your design thoughts though - get your thinking cap on, and I`ll bring a beer 8)
Dont forget a very long lead for the welder
Quote from: Doon L001 on April 10, 2015, 12:00:38 PM
Dont forget a very long lead for the welder
It will have to be a really long lead, as I remember what Stoneleigh wanted to charge me for electricity last year :o :o :o :o :o
Gaz adjustment is easy with a pair of long nose pliers from underneath when the adjusters are towards the rear of the buggy, I considered holes in the shock mount and a screwdriver slot in the adjustment knob but it is not worth the effort.
Its amazing how many other jobs need doing once you start something else. :-X
When we did the cruise across Dartmoor, I recall Flags telling me that my indicators at the rear were pretty much invisible. As this was an LED conversion that I carried out a while back, replacing the LED`s that I had to something better would not really be much of a drama, provided I could find something suitable to use instead.
You have undoubtedly seen the flashing amber marker lights that are fitted to the front grilles of the utility vehicles, but you may not be aware of the kit that they come in. A control box to give the different types of flashes, sequential, all at once, alternating, etc etc, and a number of LED Pods that contain the lights themselves. If you have carried out an LED indicator conversion using dedicated relays, or the large 50W resistor packs, then you will be pleased to know that you can actually use the majority of these pods without affecting the flash rate of your lights.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201521.jpg)
The pod shown top right was a little too large for me to hide within my light cluster, so I dismantled it and sliced it in half to reduce the thickness.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201522.jpg)
Fitted and working just nicely
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201523.jpg)
And once the rear lens is back on, you would never know that it has been converted
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201524.jpg)
Thankfully, there is an electrician here today wiring up a few extra sockets in the workshop, because at the moment my soldering iron is sharing a plug socket with the kettle, and every time the iron gets up to temperature, its time to unplug it to put a brew on.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/brick%20wall.gif)
Right. Thats pretty much all of the silly little jobs done now, and time to tackle the one that I have been dreading. I cannot put it off any longer, I need the car on the road, which means I need to sort out an exhaust system.
Major Problem Number 1)
There are just no tools here to fabricate anything and Bill is still up to his neck in bricks and mortar trying to make the building sound. This workshop is a long way off from being watertight, let alone functional, and the old workshop no longer has Bill. Need to consider other options.
Major Problem Number 2)
Before anyone says to go to Beelzedub - sadly for me, each round trip is over 550 miles, so even allowing 4 visits for design, delivery, collection and fine tweeking, this exhaust could potentially rack up around 2K miles. Besides, its winter, its cold and I`m just too busy with work.
Major Problem Number 3)
Although my welding is coming on leaps and bounds now, it still isn`t that terriffic, and making an exhaust is probably beyond my skills.
Solution:
Buy an exhaust ;-)up
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Who was I kidding? Buy an Exhaust . . . . . . . . :-X No, Seriously, You can`t :'(
My recent problems with sourcing an Alternator highlighted a problem with this style of what is actually a very desireable engine.
And by this style, I mean the Type4 / Type25 / CU / CT / CJ / Stationary / Porsche 914 call it what you will - there are lost of variants, all with their subtle differences, incompatible and non interchangeable yet almost identical looking parts, but virtually nothing listed anywhere for any of them with regards to an aftermarket exhaust system. The best I could come up with was a set of J-Tubes to replace those god-awful heat exchangers, but still meant hanging a set of pipes out the back, pretty much as I have now - just better looking.
But that was not all - most of the exhaust manifold ports on those engines are oval in shape, meaning that there is an exceptionally limited range of exhausts and bits available.
If however, like me, you have the square shaped ports, then your range of exhausts is simply "zero" - they just don`t exist.
Looks like buying an exhaust is not on the cards then - this means fabricating something, and that puts me back to square one.
:'(
Ok then - what criteria do I have for my exhaust? I guess that its comes down to aesthetics (how it looks) and performance.
Everybody has their own ideas, and that is what makes this brilliant. There is no wrong answer. For me, however, the first bit is easy - It has to be Dual Cannons - I love Cannons, I really liked the look of my old, long, ceramic Cannons, and as an added bonus, they didn`t look like a pair of bike cans. For me they look the best. However, even adding a pair of simple Cannons is not as easy as you may think. Huge apologies to most of you reading this, but many of you have lots of pipework hanging out at the back, and its really not my thing. Yes, I fully understand why its there, but it just doesn`t float my particular boat. I like the simple cannons that come out either side.
Starting at the very beginning, I needed some exhaust flanges, and good old Mike was on hand to source me a set - in fact, I ordered two sets as I knew from that start that I was going to balls this up - (I still have a spare set unblemished if anyone is interested). I gave Mike a call to pick his brains and ask for some advice, and all I could hear was coughing, spluttering, and what sounded like the need for medical intervention, but as this was intermixed with hysterical and uncontrollable laughter, I knew that he was ok. I must have caught him at a bad time, and he obviously had something else going on to make with that sort of reaction.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201525.jpg)
To make a round pipe fit a square hole, some adapters were required, like these. CSP sell a set of these ready assembled for around 300 Euros, which was somewhat expensive, especially as the rest of the system was going to have to be fabricated by hand anyway - might as well spend the 300 Euros on fire extinguishers, because when my welder gets going, they will be needed.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201526.jpg)
In my head, I recalled a picture that Farmer rob posted of Muzzy`s engine with a pair of scruffy cannons on it - and I reckoned that I would try and build something similar. I mean, a Demon Tweeks catalogue would sort the silencers, I had access to a pipe bender, I have a big welder . . . . . . .
How hard can this be? :-\
Do something temporary and simple live a small silencer on each cylinder no need for welding up 2 or 4 into one joints. Down out of tne head a u bend back up by the rockers and a 90 bend to exit rear with a silencer. Joints can be clamped apart from the down pipe to u.
It will give you time to get something sorted that does not hang out the rear.
When i did mine years ago i used the standard heat exchanger inlets cut off to weld the system to beneath the engine.
;D
Snoopy, after all that I have been through these last few months of tearing my hair out with this exhaust, what you have just suggested is so simple, so easy, and four separate pipes coming out the back would have been a brilliant solution.
I only wish you had said that to me 3 months ago :-X
Well, in fairness, its actually very hard indeed - Exhaust fabrication is a real black art and best left to the professionals.
I came to this conclusion very quickly, as I had a real nagging doubt running through my mind - nothing to do with my capabilities, but more because Cannon exhausts are generally despised by the majority as they simply do not perform that well. More research was needed, especially as I was going to have to make such a significant effort on this, and it would be a shame if I was simply wasting my time.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/read.gif)
Exhaust Witchcraft is an exhausting and often baffling subject, but there are a few golden rules. The length of the pipes coming out of the manifold (called primaries) is dependent on the performance characteristics of not only the engine setup, but required performance too, but it is very important that they are all of equal length. I could see from my old ceramic cannons in the garage, that these have just failed by at least 6 inches, and there are only two pipes. Even the preferred design of 4 pipes going into one big pipe had to be arranged in a certain shape to ensure that the air vortexes actually speed up the air flow rather than causing turbulence that can slow down the air flow. And the order the pipes are arranged (proper term is collected) is dependent on the firing order of the engine. My engine fires 1-4-3-2 which means you collect the gasses in that order. OK, I get that too. But, those cylinder numbers are diagonally opposite each other on a flat four engine which means that each side is fighting with each of its cylinders rather than working together. This is why a 4 into one exhaust performs significantly better on a VW engine. There is nothing to stop that 4 into one pipe splitting into two Cannons afterwards, and now looking at pictures of Buggies on here with Mikes exhausts, I can now appreciate all the pipework even more. There just is not anywhere else to put it. Actually, not strictly true, because Farmer Rob has his collector above his engine, and the stunning exhaust that Mike created for Allan`s Buggy is pure exhaust porn.
I`m beaten - I just cannot make this on my own knowing how bad it is going to be. :'(
But . . . . . . I can hear Bill laughing at me . . . .
Ya daft Bugger, Wait until we are set up, Lets design and build you a Powercraft Exhaust, it`ll be worth the wait, and it will be the b*ll*cks of a system
This was Bills plan all along :)
There is always my man in cullompton Dave. ;-)up
Thanks Manxrod, but all sorted - pictures to follow very shortly ;-)up
Dave, I have been thinking, yes I know it is dangerous ;D But then your exhaust posts got deleted. Am I right in thinking that you are linking 1 and 4 exhaust and 2 and 3? If you are I think I might, I stress might, have some bad news.
Rob
Blimey Rob, you sent me in a panic there :-X
No worries though, Yes, they are connected 1&4 and 3&2 and I am assured by my exhaust guru that all is good ;)
So Bill and I sat down over a mug or three of tea, and had a chat about exactly which direction this was heading. When I said I wanted big Cannons, I was a little baffled when the reply was that we would use Cherry Bombs. I remember them well from the pictures of 1970`s custom cars that adorned my bedroom walls when I was a child, they were fitted on all cars that didn`t have a set of Lake side pipes. Bill then handed me a 4.5" Stainless Cherry Bomb which was certainly unlike any I had ever seen before, and there was no denying its build quality compared with other silencers I had encountered.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201527.jpg)
I was given a quick lecture on how this particular style had a series of flutes running down the center that gave it a very distinct sound . . . .
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201528.jpg)
And before I could but in and say that it looked a bit like an exhaust system center box and not a big cannon, he then produced a 5" tail pipe, and said that he would stick one of these on the end.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201530.jpg)
Once a few bits were wedged together, I could start to see the exhaust design that he had running through his head. However, he wanted to use slightly bigger 5" silencers and said that the rest of the pipe location and routing would really depend on how much room we had once these were in position.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201539.jpg)
Fabrication is what Bill does best, so I trusted him to start ordering in a load of bits so that we could make a start. :D
And sure enough, the parts started to arrive, thick and fast - we were going to have fun trying to work out how to put this lot together
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201529.jpg)
And now I see why Bill wanted to use larger silencers, because once the ends had been welded on, they would indeed look like a big mahoosive cannon.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201534.jpg)
Bill attatched the ends in place, and although you can see the joint at the moment, I know that witchcraft will eventually take place, and that crusty welded joint will soon disappear.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201535.jpg)
Something that I had not considered until now though, was the weight - these are very, very heavy :-\
The manifolds were fabricated, and then chopped up and refabricated the right way round, because no matter how many times you look at these, getting the plates upside down is exceptionally easy to do, and thats exactly what Bill did.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201536.jpg)
These were fitted in place, and as you can see, there is precious little room between the pushrods and very little wriggle room.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201537.jpg)
Also worth pointing out to anyone else following this, that care must be taken when attaching any bends to this, that you do not foul the access to the exhaust stud nuts, else you will not be able to remove it again.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201538.jpg)
We had these one and off so many times, that Bill fabricated some new long sleeved nuts to make access with a socket much easier ;-)up
The silencers were then hung in place using tie wraps so that we could then take stock of how it looked and formulate a game plan.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201543.jpg)
I have to say, that from my point of view, it looks awesome - and I can hear Bills mind whirring away from where I am sitting with the next bit.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201544.jpg)
Because the workshop is still being built, I invested in a car cover, just to keep the building dust from it. It was an el-cheapo water resistant car cover from the local parts factors, size medium and cost me £20. And I must say, that it almost looks tailor made for a SWB Buggy and god only knows what type of car it is meant for.
Now that the silencers were located roughly where they were supposed to be, and we had the start of the exit from the heads, it was time to decide how an earth we were going to connect them all together.
Bill knows that I don`t want too much pipework showing at the back, and is also fully aware that despite it being one of the best options, there just isn`t any room to go underneath with a four into one collector because the roll cage and tow bar have taken up every bit of ground clearance that I have. Time to put the kettle on for a brew and a think.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201545.jpg)
Moments later, the car goes up in the air and its time to put the kettle on for a brew and a think.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201546.jpg)
And the car goes back down on to the floor, where Bill stands silent, before uttering "time to put the kettle on for a brew and a think"
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/bill2.jpg)
Eventually, after another brew and a drink, Bill has made his decision, that we will collect the exhaust gasses correctly by joining cylinders 1 and 4 together and 3 and 2 together, by running two pipes under the engine. But before he could show me, you guessed it, it was time to put the kettle on for a brew and a think.
And I will tell you more stories about the Tea later ;D
At the front of the engine, just behind the air intake housing, was a really good run from one side to the other, although a small notch may have to be put in place where the base of the oil filler neck goes. Because it is not in front of, nor near the air intake itself, it shouldn`t really affect the cooling system, and if anything, the air that was exiting the oil cooler would be blowing directly on it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201547.jpg)
At the back of the engine, Bill reckoned that he could get a pipe between the engine mounts if the cage mountings were ground down a little.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201548.jpg)
And after the consumption of several liters of tea, he emerged with this little pipe
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201550.jpg)
Which seemed to fit just perfectly ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201552.jpg)
Time to put the kettle on for a brew ::)
So we now have two silencers in place with their downpipes, all four manifolds showing some stubs
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201553.jpg)
And a pair of pipes traversing from one side of the engine to the other.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201554.jpg)
So you can guess what we did next, can`t you - we put that bloody kettle on again :-X
Ok then. Those that know my good mate Bill will be laughing their socks off here in agreement, but for those that don`t, I have made a few references to tea here, because I have never before encountered a man who could drink so much of the stuff. He must have shares in Tetley. At first, I just thought he was a connoisseur of the brew, but after being given a rollicking for bringing in the wrong shape of teabag, I have fast realised that its probably a form of liquid OCD.
The rules in his workshop are very simple. The kettle must be switched on before the current mug is finished. ;-)up ;D
Now, if you recall a while back, I told you that the workshop itself is still under construction and there is still no running water, which is not a problem for filling the kettle, because there are racks of bottled water that have been filled from home to see us through the hour. No, where we have a problem is what to do with that last mouthful of tea in the cup, the dregs, the last bit that went cold, that last mouthful that probably has a few "bits" in it (and if you do not know what I mean by that, then you are no mechanic, and have never drunk tea in a garage) well they are not simply discarded into the air with gay abandon or over the floor like many places I have been, but instead thrown into a bucket. No, its not the pee bucket, but I`ll be the first to admit that it looks the same.
Many moons ago, when I did my engineering qualifications at college, during our metallurgy course, I was taught about quenching of metals, and the effect that it had. We were taught about quenching to reduce the heat in water, we were taught about the benefits and dangers of quenching in oils, but at no point anywhere was I ever taught about quenching in a bucket of tea. I kid you not, this is the quenching bucket.
;D ;D ;D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/bucket.jpg)
But it gets worse. ;D ;D ;D
We currently have builders in, putting up a brick wall for my tea obsessed friend, and to hold the bricks together they use a material widely known as mortar. You will be familiar with this name. In all my life, I have never heard builders wet themselves with laughter so much when mixing the mortar. You see, mortar is mixed from 3 main ingredients, sand, cement and (wait for it, as we have no running water) yes, tea !!
;D ;D ;D
And of course, when the walls were ultimately rendered and the plasterer came to visit, you can probably guess the colour of the walls. To be fair on that one though, its only because Dulux do not have Tetley on their colour charts.
;D ;D ;D
So the mission is to join it all together, whilst keeping the individual pipe lengths as equal as we can.
I`ll simply let the pictures do the talking here . . . . .
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201555.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201557.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201558.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201559.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201560.jpg)
8)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201562.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201563.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201564.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201565.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201566.jpg)
8)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201567.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201568.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201569.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201570.jpg)
And finally, the picture that I am really pleased with, because it ticks the boxes that I started out with - It has two big mahoosive cannons, not too much pipework on show, and has been said to me already, it sits well and looks really tidy.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201571.jpg)
A huge and massive thanks as always to my good mate Bill from Powercraft Engineering, but I am fully aware that this exhaust is far from being finished as yet. There are still a few bits that need polishing and sorting, but it really needs a few miles put on it for a decent shakedown so that any problems can be identified and then tweaked.
And now, the moment of truth - time to start it up
But I`ll tell you about that one another time ;)
Looks a very nice job Bill has done you proud bet he will steer clear of any more buggy jobs
Very nice looking exhaust Dave, perhaps while your at it you should also make a stainless steel tennis ball :)
That tennis ball is there purely for those walking by with dogs, a stainless one just wouldn`t be as much fun to watch :D
Looking cool Dave, nearly as pornographic as mine ;D
All I can say id poor Bill
Great job he/you have done
Great job done by Bill and yourself - very tidy indeed!
Cheers guys - really pleased with it 8)
Well done that looks really good ;-)up ;-)up
That looks great Dave, Your mate has done you proud. What does it sound like? will you be deff by the time you get to Stoneleigh!
Rob
It sounded very nice from my house when he started it up ;D ;D ;D
We thought that was thunder at Elemental
;D
How does it sound? You should ask the the staff at the Co-op who use the store room located underneath the workshop, in fact I think the layout down there may actually mean the Buggy may have been located directly above the toilets. Judging by the comments from the Manager, who I fear may have been sat on said seat at the time, I don`t think he was very happy that we didn`t give him fair warning who, instead of spending a penny may just have dropped a couple of quid, if you know what I mean.
;D ;D
A few weeks ago, I changed my rear LED indicators for something I thought would be a little brighter than the ones I was using, and today, in glorious blue skies and much sunshine, I made a startling discovery, that they still could not be seen. It seems that most of the aftermarket LED clusters we are all using suffer with this, and I thought it about time I tried to find out why.
So I thought I would play with an OEM rear light unit from a BMW E46 and see how they managed to get it right, when we all seem to be getting it wrong. Now, I must start by saying that what I did here is certainly not for the feint hearted, as these BMW clusters are fast approaching several hundred pounds each.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201572.jpg)
But because they are so expensive, and have big circuit boards in them instead of replaceable bulbs, it does mean that when they go wrong, people often send them to me to be repaired, and ultimately I have ended up with a few spare ones kicking about to cannibalise.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201573.jpg)
With the circuit boards removed, you can see that apart from a few electronic components, the boards are nothing more than a layout of LED bulbs, slightly different in shape to the round ones most of us are familiar with, but not really any different. They are just high power output LED bulbs. For reference, the large panel is the stop and tail lights, and the 3 thin boards make up the indicator circuit.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201574.jpg)
And these LEDs simply shine though the holes in the plastic panel. Seems simple enough, and very similar to what we have ourselves. Yet these ones work well enough for a production car, yet ours cannot be seen in daylight. Time to look a little closer at the problem.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201575.jpg)
This next picture of the circuit board laying against my lights actually illustrates most of the problems. First of all, it is important to remember that LED lights are very directional, and you may have noticed that if you position yourself directly in line with them, that they actually look much brighter from a certain angle.
That is all well and good, but if you look at the silver/white set that I have just installed on the right of the picture, you will notice that everything is pointing skywards at a steep angle, and coincidentally it is about the same angle as when we are standing upright behind them thinking that they look good, when actually if you squatted down behind them, at about the same height as if you were driving, you may notice a significant reduction in their intensity.
Now look at the BMW circuit board, and you will notice that all of the LEDs are mounted at an angle, (they appear vertical in the photo) so that they are pointing horizontally at the eye height of the driver behind. That is one of the problems for us that often needs solving - the lights must first point in the right direction. But hang on a minute, my existing stop and tail lights work brilliantly, and they also point skywards - what is different there?
Looking again at my silver/white cluster, (and the BMW lights), you may notice that the ends of the bulbs are a nice rounded concave shape which actually magnifies and focuses the light beam even more in a given direction, whereas my brake lights have a convex dimple on the end which results in a larger amount of light coming out of the sides instead of the end, which is why they work best at an angle. If you looked head on to my brake lights they are not as bright as they are when viewed from an angle and this is also an important fact to consider.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201576.jpg)
And this got me thinking. I now know that the LEDs need to point at the vehicle behind, but a small rounded lens pointing directly at me was significantly smaller than the larger surface area of the recessed reflector that wasn`t really being used. So if I were to replace the Concave LEDS with Convex ones, then instead of seeing the directional 3mm round dot of an LED, in theory I should see a larger amount of light as a result of using the reflector instead. Well, that was the theory.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201577.jpg)
Well I guess that there is only one way to disprove a theory, so its out with the grinder
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201578.jpg)
But even with all the excess fat trimmed off them, they are still exceptionally large lights, and currently far too big to use behind my lenses
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201579.jpg)
As its just the indicators I am playing around with at the moment, I carefully chopped the unit in half and will revisit the tail light section another day. The indicator unit was trimmed down as far as I could, and I also had to reduce its depth by grinding off some of the high peaks on the front. Care was taken not to damage the reflective surfaces with the generated heat. You can probably tell by the mess how much fun I am having with this.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201580.jpg)
The LEDs were all replaced with slightly larger 4mm Convex ones, and the circuit board rewired to allow for independent operation from the main board. Because my Buggy had already been fitted with big resistors to control the flash rate, no further wiring alterations were necessary.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201581.jpg)
And here we have the resultant LED indicator module ready to go. Granted, its not that pretty, but do not forget that I am trying to prove a theory here rather than produce a finished bit of shiny bling.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201582.jpg)
Now if my theory is correct, by changing the shape of the LED to convex ones, then instead of seeing 16 round dots of the individual bulbs, I should instead see 16 full sections illuminated due to maximising the effect of the reflectors.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201583.jpg)
And I think that was fairly conclusive. I still have a long way to go with this, and will continue to experiment, but there is no doubting that even when your lights are pointing in different directions, just by changing the shape of the ends of the LEDs them selves can have dramatic increases in the amount of light being shown.
Interesting . . . . . . . :-)Geek
I`m not a great fan of the racing harness that many use on here, and I like the freedom of movement from the old style inertia style seat belts as found on normal cars. However, over the last few trips, I have been having more and more problems with my seat belts getting stuck. The belt retractor (technical term for the mechanism) hasn`t wanted to recoil the belts when taken off for a while now without a bit of help, and now they are significantly jamming when trying to put them on. When you pull them, they lock, but once locked they do not want to free up to give any more length, which can be a real pain when you are my size and having to struggle.
There is an old trick of the trade to free up classic car belts when this happens, and that involves dipping the retractor into a bucket of a warm soapy solution for a while, and this has the effect of degreasing the internal plastic cams, allowing them to freely function once more. Usually takes ages to dry them out, but it works really well. But not something I am going to bother with this time as my belts are starting to fray around the edges, and if the truth be told, they are looking very tired and could really do with replacing.
And herein lies the problem. Most (front) inertia seat belts are designed to work in a totally upright position, and if the retractor is at any sort of angle, then it thinks the car is on its side and it will lock. Not helpful when your roll bar starts off by sloping back at an angle, and hence one of the reasons I originally used a knackered set of belts, as the internal wear meant that I could install it at a very slight angle without locking. Many of the rear inertia belts now have a built in adjuster so that you can actually dial in the angle it is being fitted, and it will then work perfectly. Sounds good, until you realise that the rear belt configurations do not include the shoulder loop that attaches on the top of the B-Post, nor the long stalks that they are clipped into, and are actually a fair bit shorter in length. The solution looked fairly simple. Buy a set of fronts and a set of rears and cannibalise them to make what I wanted. So, with my contacts that I have within the industry, I asked one of the belt manufacturers (Securon) if they would custom make me a set by swapping over the retractors from one set to another, especially as they had a multitude of different sets and products on their website.
And their answer was . . . . Bugger Off :'(
Actually, to be fair, there technical department were very helpful, and because of type approval, legislation prevented them from making custom stuff, but they did suggest that I had a word with a company called F.D.T.S. Ltd and ask for Sue, as she was known for making custom belts.
Sue was brilliant, and after a quick chat, she suggested that rather than cannibalising two sets of belts, that I make myself familiar with their website, especially the item names and terms, various mounting options, do some measuring on my car, and then give her a call back, where she quizzed me on just about every aspect of seat belt requirements from length down to the various types of nuts and bolts used to fix them. She then suggested that I should use a different (and much smaller) multi angle retractor that could just be "fitted" without the need to dial in any angles.
I then asked her what colour she could make these in, and if green was an option? To which she replied, "Sure, what shade?".
To my amazement, they have around 70 different colours available, and she not only sent me over a quick picture, but offered to post out some samples if needed. Nothing seemed to be a problem at all, and she said that it would only take a couple of weeks to make them. This all sounded too good to be true, and it was time to ask the one question that I had been dreading. The elephant in the room. The price. How much of a hit was my credit card going to have to take for this one? And I nearly fell over when she gave her reply.
I needed them, I now wanted them, so I ordered them. :-X
And as good as her word, two weeks later I had a parcel arrive containing two sets of belts and an extra bag of mounting brackets that she had thrown in, as she thought that they may come in useful
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201588.jpg)
And there was no doubt whatsoever as to what vehicle they had been built for :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201589.jpg)
I certainly hadn`t initially set out to get green belts, but when you are confronted with an option list in front of you that ticks every single box, its seemed silly not to go for it, and I am really pleased with the colour that came back to me.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201590.jpg)
You can see from the picture here what I meant by the mounting angle. 99.9% of inertia seat belts will not function if installed like this, and I am pleased to report that these ones are silky smooth and work perfectly.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201591.jpg)
Whilst coloured belts are not to everybodies taste, I think that they really suit my Buggy and I am exceptionally pleased with the work that Sue and her team have put in to provide me with such an awesome set of seat belts. The quality of workmanship is second to none.
So, back to that elephant in the room then. A fully tailored and custom set of belts, made to my exact spec and colour. How much do you reckon that they cost me in the end? Have a guess? But before I tell you, let me just give a quick plug for Sue, and if you do contact her, mention the Beach Buggy Club and I`m sure she will go out of her way to assist you.
F.D.T.S. Ltd.
Highfield Works,
Rear of 1-3 Parvis Road,
West Byfleet Corner,
West Byfleet,
Surrey
KT14 6LP. UK
Telephone: +44 (0) 1932 342043
http://www.fdts-seatbelts.co.uk/
And I bet your guess was a lot more than the £59 + vat (per belt) that I was charged !
£153.60 inclusive of delivery for a pair of custom made belts !!
Not only that, but I was given 30 days to pay it - Proper Old Skool Invoicing 8)
You jammy so and so, they look great
The Dangers of letting "Professionals" near your wheels: >:(
Due to pressures at home, and having to look after Lisa, I put my Buggy into a local tyre centre run by a supposed mate of mine for a bit of work and I am absolutely appalled by the state in which it has been returned. Like so many garage mechanics these days, he too has become very "Lazy" and does everything now with a ratchet gun, often at full tilt, as this saves time and effort.
Now, you will hear many tales in the VW Community of wheel nuts coming loose, and wheels falling off. This is very common, and the cause of which is often for the same reason. Wrong wheel bolts for your wheels. Wheel nuts and bolts come in many shapes and sizes, and the most common have either a rounded ball on them, a chamfered angles, or a flat washer. These correspond to the same shapes on the wheels where the nut goes. What V-Dubbers tend to do, is remove the bolts, change the wheels to a different style and then simply refit the bolts again, without checking if they are suitable. If your wheel has a chamfered edge where the nut touches it, then a wheel nut with a rounded edge will simply become loose and the wheel will fall off. Its a simple thing to check, and one I would advise everybody to do.
However, I digress, because not only did I know this, but I had actually custom made my wheel washers on a lathe as they were unobtainable, and as they were a perfect fit, I knew that they would never come loose. But, I drove home and set about checking them for tightness. When one of the nuts pulled (not unscrewed) off in my hand, I knew I had a bigger problem here.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201592.jpg)
I use 4x130 to Chevy 5 stud adaptor plates for my rear wheels, and as you can see, the studs are nowhere near acceptable :o
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201593.jpg)
The thread has been stripped from nearly every stud, all because a ratchet gun was used and any problem tightness could not be felt :o
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201594.jpg)
ManxDavid introduced me to a new word for this stud, of unobtanium - wheras I just knew it as FUBAR :'(
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201595.jpg)
The reason the nuts were tight, is because winding them up so much with the gun had caused them to compress slightly, allowing the side walls to bulge, meaning they would no longer slide through the holes of the wheel with ease. So what did this garage do? Cut the nuts in half and removed the bulge from the end.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201596.jpg)
Thankfully BuggySteve came to the rescue with a new adaptor plate for me, and from my ebay wheel fiasco a few years back, I still have a supply of 7/16 chevy nuts to use. A quick session with the bench tools, and a new set was produced for use.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/mates.gif)
I`m not going to name and shame the local tyre centre that who did this, they know who they are, but the impending black eye will take some explaining to his customers as to how it came about. Thankfully I`m just glad that I drove it from there round the corner to another garage, run by my mate Adam who spotted this before I hit the road and pointed out that he had a problem getting the wheels back on.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/mates5.gif)
Hope he realises his stupidity could have killed you and others
name and shame - he should be reported to trading standards, not so much for the stupid thing he did in the first place but because after buggering it up but he then tried to hide the evidence by cutting bits off the nuts. Then he let you, his "mate", drive off in an unsafe vehicle.
He needs putting out of business before he does kill someone (IMHO of course)
Glad you found it
You two dont need any more hospital visits
Sobering. Whilst I totally condemn what's been done to your lovely nuts and bolts and the potential for an accident, at least the guy told you they might need checking...... probably knowing you'd do so soon. If he hadn't you could so easily have had a terrible crash and from the wreckage of separated wheels the first guess would have been that you hadn't tightened your wheels properly and they had destroyed the threads as they worked off. Wouldn't have explained the cut off ends but you might not have survived to say it wasn't you who'd done that.......
I'm aghast that such a thing can happen to you who take such care and pains on doing things properly.
Must admit when I got my Sidewinder over a year ago I knew nearside rear wheels were more predisposed to work lose so took the bolts out of the passenger rear to then retighten them, only to find they were way to short i.e. they perhaps only screwed in a couple of turns before becoming fully tight. I found all 4 wheels had the same too short bolts so after a feeling a bit pale at having driven about for 50/60 miles oblivious of how tenuously the wheels were actually held on I invested in some much longer ones.
Jeez! It sometimes makes wonder where everything will all end up...
It's just mad out there >:(
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201593.jpg)
A sad case he obviously knew that it was dangerous but I am surprised he let you drive it home instead of saying sorry but I fooked it up and you cannot have it back.
I Will admit I always take my wheels off and drop them in for tyre work these days because of the impact wrench use then just clicking the torque wrench at whatever it is set too below the impact wrech silly tight setting you cannot undo and stretching the bolts.
Quote from: snoopy on July 05, 2015, 10:17:56 PM
I am surprised he let you drive it home instead of saying sorry but I fooked it up and you cannot have it back.
Not owning up to it initially is what has really annoyed me about it
Yes, I would have been annoyed, but it could have been easily rectified whilst still at the garage >:(
Not sure I would let another Non-Buggy owner near my wheels again :-X
Yes Snoopy my preference would be to take my wheels in seperately rather than the whole buggy. I've had a quick attempt to search for wheel nut/bolt torque settings on this site but would love to know Snoopy what you recemmend for front and back or near and off side ?
Quote from: Hugh on July 06, 2015, 07:41:13 AMI've had a quick attempt to search for wheel nut/bolt torque settings on this site but would love to know Snoopy what you recemmend for front and back or near and off side ?
I tighten by hand to the same torque as everything else on a VW, ie just tight enough, not too loose, not too tight.
I never use a torque wrench. I've sent good makes (Britool, Facom etc.) of torque wrenches for annual testing and calibration in the past and even if they've had little use they've still been way out. How many amateur mechanics ever bother getting their wrenches tested? None I'd guess. I simply don't trust them these days.
Yes fair comment and moderate experience tells me roughly how tight to do the wheel nuts and then check them after a few miles.
It's just a shame that we amateurs aren't saved from ourselves by all having accurate torque wrenches and appropriate settings for the wheel nuts which are so critical. Plenty of well travelled buggy owners seem to have slipped up at some time through loose wheel nuts and Dave's tale shows 'proper' mechanics are capable of crass damage.
Wheel nut torques will vary depending on whether they are steel or ally for a start, so I would follow ManxDavid, tighten by hand and "nip" them but ALWAYS make sure threads are clean or you may get a false feel for tightness
Also if you've had wheels or drums painted or powder coated clean the coating off the wheel/drum mating surfaces and the nut/bolt seat faces. It'll soften with the heat of the brakes and can leave wheels loose.
ps If you're chucking the old ones out chuck them my way Dave, I've got a mate with a '56 BelAir who could do with a pair of wheel spacers. ;-)up
nip mine up by hand with the ratchet or with the gun after they have started and are running free then torque them to 70 lbs ft so all bolts are under the same stress a few lbs out on the poundage does not matter but if I use a short breaker bar I can over tighten them with very little effort.
The Alternator saga continues, but thankfully appears to be nearing an end. After its near 1500 mile maiden voyage, the belt was well and truly slack, and my squeal on start up has returned once more. The trouble is, as you can see here, the small bracket I installed for adjustment has reached the end of its travel, and if I am totally honest, trying to adjust the belt by levering the alternator to one side whilst doing up the bolts was not the easiest thing to do. There had to be another solution.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201597.jpg)
In my head, I wanted some sort of easy adjuster that was similar to that used when tracking a car. Rose joints at either end, and a tube in the middle that when turned would increase or decrease the length. I knew that in order to do this, I needed both left hand and right hand threaded joints, and whilst searching the internet shop in the bay of E for the bits, I came across exactly what I was after, albeit of a much longer length (Ford Escort) of 95mm to 134mm
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201598.jpg)
After a careful bit of measuring and cutting, remembering to remove equal amounts from either end, and removing one of the locknuts, as one will do, I ended up with this slightly shorter version that now has a range of 50mm closed to 80mm open
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201599.jpg)
And it fits just perfectly. Here it is fully compressed and a belt can just about(!) be fitted - although removal of one of the nuts does make it significantly easier.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015100.jpg)
A few turns of the hex bar in the middle, and the belt can be adjusted in seconds, all that`s needed then is to tighten the locking nut.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015101.jpg)
Really pleased with how this one has turned out, as belt adjustment can be done very easily.
That was £20 well spent ;-)up
That is a neat and makes adjustment easier ;-)up
I like that idea a lot. I might Nick that or something similar at least :D
Whilst waiting for my never ending list of bits to arrive so I can get the Buggy engine running again, I thought I would turn to some of the bits that I do have here and not yet fitted.
Like many of you nowadays, I too have resorted to playing MP3`s through my stereo instead of CD`s, and again, like many, I have found the best way to do this is through an iPod. I picked up an old version (very cheap because it was an out of date and therefore uncool model in the eyes of the chavs) on eBay that can hold more tracks that I can possibly listen to, and the problem I had was where to stick it. Luckily, my stereo can control the iPod via the buttons on the front, and as the connecting cables come out of the rear, it does mean that I can hide the device somewhere out of sight.
I noticed that many of the cyclists around here had mobile phone holders mounted to their handlebars, and with a bit of fettling, I have managed to mount it to the cross bar under my dash.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015104.jpg)
Works brilliantly ;-)up
As you may be aware from other threads on the forum, my gearbox decided to fail on me and its demise meant that my recently installed engine had to come out once more. This presented itself with a bit of a problem.
When previously fitting standard Type 1 engines, I have often done this by precariously balancing the engine on the top of a trolley jack and always had a spare pair of hands just in case things went wrong - much the same as everyone else. When I fitted the type 25 engine, which was considerably heavier, Lisa had both arms in plaster and could only stand and watch, so I ended up striping the engine back to bare basics to remove as much weight as I could, and then rebuild it all once the block had been bolted in place. This time though, I was determined to remove the engine as a whole, and on my own - and a quick trip to Machine Mart provided a potential solution.
What I spotted was a nice wide trolley jack used for Motorcycles and ATV`s, and I reckoned that the platform was large enough to comfortably sit an engine on without fear of it toppling over. Not cheap at £120, but then if it saved dropping the engine or crushing my fingers in the process, it would be money well spent.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015105.jpg)
Most of my Buggy electrics are now on quick release connectors, so that the engine can be removed easily, so once tow bar, RH cannon and rear cage were removed, I was ready to see if my new jack would work. I had a spare block of very dense builders insulation foam, and I thought it would be an idea to put this under the engine, as the T25 block has lots of fins under there and this would protect them.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015106.jpg)
Undo the four engine bolts and gently pull the jack backwards, and that is without doubt the easiest VW engine removal I have ever done
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015107.jpg)
As a real added bonus, the jack is so stable that it provides quite a nice platform for the engine to sit on and even be worked on without fear of it falling off. I only hope that putting the engine back in is as trouble free as removal was.
;-)up
ive had one o them 2 years dave ive put my engine in on me own with it peeeeeeeeefect
Does feel a bit like Deja-Vu in the garage at the moment, as I know Ive done most of this before, but that said, with any project the best thing to do is rip everything out and start of with a blank canvass, or in my case a great big hole where all the noisy bits went.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015108.jpg)
I have been debating which box to go in there for a while now, and whilst everyone was screaming at me to go for the 3.89 ratio box, something kept niggling at me that I shouldn`t. It wasn`t until after I threw together the gearbox charts and graphs so that I could see what gear I would be in pottering about town and when I would be changing up or down, that it became very clear that with my tyre sizes the better gearbox for me to go for was the 4.125 ratio box (generally known as the 1500/1600 box). After a quick chat with VW Heritage, it turned out that they had a reconditioned 4.125 Rancho box down there, and they offered such a good deal that I had to go and get it immediately before they changed their mind.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015109.jpg)
I know that these Rancho boxes are supposed to be much "Beefier" than the standard ones, but I had not imagined for one moment that you would be able to see the difference from the outside. Compare the size of the side plates, the physical diameter of the differential box at this point, and also the size of the actual gearbox casing at the rear.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015110.jpg)
As you can see, the Rancho box is quite a bit bigger than the 1300 box that came out, and also considerably heavier too.
I'll throw a pound in the kitty if manage to break that bad boy, hope it all comes together well for you ;-)up
Heavens, that's clean.... :)
Am watching this with interest, just in case I need to do something similar.
Its looking good so far though and hopefully all will be fine ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015108.jpg)
Quote from: Peter on August 30, 2015, 07:00:59 PM
Heavens, that's clean....:)
Another one with closet OCD or is it CDO ;D :D ;-)up
Quote from: HUDGE BUGGY on August 30, 2015, 07:30:36 PM
Quote from: Peter on August 30, 2015, 07:00:59 PM
Heavens, that's clean....:)
Another one with closet OCD or is it CDO ;D :D ;-)up
Nope, the recent wet drive back from N.E.W.S. that waterlogged and near killed my engine had the advantage of thoroughly washing every bit of the underside of my Buggy
:D
The next thing I had to consider, was how to physically mount the gearbox to the chassis. The original rubber mounts made the engine rock so much that it was causing problems. I seriously considered going down the route of solid mounting everything, but that didn`t allow for any "give" anywhere, so if anything were to move or break, then it would ultimately be gearbox casings that would fracture as a result. I didn`t fancy that. After reading and researching some of the stories out there, neither did I fancy the Red Urethane mounts either. So that ultimately led me to the CSP Rhino mounts, which are also some form of solid resin / plastic style mount that will at least offer some limited protection if something ended up moving that shouldn`t have.
Here we can see the front Rhino mount compared with the original one, and the first thing you will notice is that Rhino have now ditched that god awful tacky yellow plastic colour. Don`t get me wrong, I love yellow - but those bits looked like the plastic from naff childrens toys.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015111.jpg)
Anyone who researches the Rhino mounts will probably come up with the same conclusion that I did. They are very good at what they do. They are virtually unbreakable. And they are a really crappy fit, with much fettling needed with a Dremel to get them to fit correctly into place. I`m happy to report that mine were no exception, but at least I had the foresight to trial fit everything first off the vehicle. First problem was that although my new front gearbox mount was pre-drilled for both old and new style fittings, the holes did not line up properly for Rhino mounts, and had to be opened up a little as the threads were catching on the sides. A few minutes with a round file and all was well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015112.jpg)
One of the other common Rhino complaints is that you cannot easily attach this mount to the vehicle as the gap down the side of the nut is too narrow to get a socket on, and the frame horns prevent you from swinging a spanner in there. Common solutions are to either remove some of the side metal with a Dremel to allow a socket to fit, or to use the smaller diameter cylinder head nuts that apparently fit rather well. I have some very unusual shaped spanners, so didn`t have a problem. Although I must say, that I`m surprised that this design flaw has never been addressed by the manufacturers.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015113.jpg)
You will also notice hanging off the front mount is my gearbox earth strap. Just above and to the right, you will also see another heavy duty bit of black 4AWG cable that is another earth strap that I made from a car Amplifier fitting kit, and this is connected directly to the battery negative terminal. This ensures that my starter motor has a really good earth, and can turn over as fast as it can.
The Rhino mounts are pretty good at what they have to do, but have one flaw, which
was bad enough for me to drive straight back into the workshop and take it off...
My engine didnt really need one anyway and the standard rubber type is fine for me.
The flaw..... Engine and transmission noise is transmitted into the floor pan which in my case
became one huge 'speaker... It was unbelievable :( and I just didn't want all the droning and
amplified sounds that were being generated, thats all.
Other than that it worked really well for the 600 yards it was on ;-)up
Peter :)
Quote from: Peter on August 30, 2015, 09:25:19 PM
The Rhino mounts are pretty good at what they have to do, but have one flaw, which
was bad enough for me to drive straight back into the workshop and take it off...
The flaw..... Engine and transmission noise is transmitted into the floor pan which in my case
became one huge 'speaker... It was unbelievable :( and I just didn't want all the droning and
amplified sounds that were being generated, thats all.
I fully understand where you are coming from with that one, and as you use yours as a daily driver, often with the roof on, then I appreciate that engine vibration and noise could indeed be a major influencing factor. On the flip side, I spent well over a thousand miles in Chads last year, and vibration was fairly un-noticable, and his box is solid mounted.
I guess its horses for courses really, and I will find out for myself soon enough :-\
Yes :)
I think I may get a little more noise than others because my floors are one piece and
using 1.5mm Zintec sheet, so they are unbelievably stiff.
I could stand on the front sides and jump up and down, nothing moves, the channel
running along each side is 2.5 folded Zintec too so its all pretty rigid.
Am sure you wont have the same problem as i did, you are right about having the roof and doors though
as it keeps a lot of noise in...
Peter ;-)up
(http://www.manxmaniac.co.uk/albums/stellsBuild/slides/4.jpg)
Time to start playing about with the rear mounts. Hopefully this picture should explain the conversion that needs to be done from the ultra soft rubber IRS mounts and plate on the bottom, to the Rhino mounts and unbelievably heavy gauge plate shown above.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015114.jpg)
You will notice that on my old mount, I had a great big plate welded in the middle. This was actually the bracket for holding on the center section of my tow bar. Rather than chop it off and weld it to the new plate, I cut the bottom lip off the new plate (bolts to a skid tray) and used the existing frame horn bolt holes to ensure it all lines up again.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015115.jpg)
The tow bar mount can be seen better from the other side, and is really nothing more than a big thick bit of angled plate
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015116.jpg)
With all that now done, time to give it a liberal coat of "Hairy Hammerrite". Affectionately named after the amount of bristles left behind by the cheap disposable brushes I use as I am too tight to buy thinners. You can buy an awful lot of 2 inch brushes at six pence each compared with the price of a tin of brush cleaner !!
Quote from: Dave DND on August 30, 2015, 07:35:01 PM
Quote from: HUDGE BUGGY on August 30, 2015, 07:30:36 PM
Quote from: Peter on August 30, 2015, 07:00:59 PM
Heavens, that's clean....:)
Another one with closet OCD or is it CDO ;D :D ;-)up
Nope, the recent wet drive back from N.E.W.S. that waterlogged and near killed my engine had the advantage of thoroughly washing every bit of the underside of my Buggy
:D
Dave, have a lok at the "What did I do today thread" my engine sucked water and I think I have solved how to stop it
I looked on that with great interest Dave, no doubt it will work though.
I may relocate the air filters in due course with some pipework, but need to get it back on the road first ;-)up
Quote from: Dave DND on September 03, 2015, 08:26:14 AM
I looked on that with great interest Dave, no doubt it will work though.
I may relocate the air filters in due course with some pipework, but need to get it back on the road first ;-)up
Am i being thick here, or pehaps someone can explain this situation, when there is a deluge, the carbs you are running get waterlogged, how ??? surely the air filters installed do not allow ingress of water whether they are foam/paper/cotton types and possibly being treated with a filtercharge oil ( stops dust apparently) http://www.knfilters.co.uk/cleaning.aspx
Where does it get in ????
Quote from: HUDGE BUGGY on September 03, 2015, 12:32:55 PM
Quote from: Dave DND on September 03, 2015, 08:26:14 AM
I looked on that with great interest Dave, no doubt it will work though.
I may relocate the air filters in due course with some pipework, but need to get it back on the road first ;-)up
Am i being thick here, or pehaps someone can explain this situation, when there is a deluge, the carbs you are running get waterlogged, how ??? surely the air filters installed do not allow ingress of water whether they are foam/paper/cotton types and possibly being treated with a filtercharge oil ( stops dust apparently) http://www.knfilters.co.uk/cleaning.aspx
Where does it get in ????
The close proximity of the air filters (Twin Carb) next to our wheels appears to be the issue here
Although the construction of the air filter material will prevent 99% of waterbourne particles from going down the venturi`s, the deluges of rain and monsoon`s we have driven through of late has meant that the prolonged spray from the wheels is landing on the air filters, and if you throw that much water at something porous, eventually some of it is going to go in.
Completely sludged up the oilways in my engine with creamy goo, (completely knocking out my oil pressure), and took several attempts to clear it, the last being a total hot engine flush with Wynns.
Cheers for that Dave, that means I'll stick with the re-jetted single solex that Mr Porsche installed and have no problems.
Obviously twins work on a sedan or camper cos there all tucked up out of the elements. :)
As Dave said. Remember on Colchester bypass, I had to pull over because the engine had no power at any speed but OK when going slowly. After that trip carbs had to be cleaned before I could use it again.
Single carb has some distance from the rear wheels
My filters are oiled wire type, they let wet air through, but a bit too wet in that instance
My filters are pancake ones, and I was going to simply block off around a quarter of it with a curved plate, so that there was not an open side towards the wheels if that makes sense?
Before anyone starts to panic with twin carbs fearing a similar scenario, it must be remembered that the trips we made recently were biblically wet !!
Quote from: Dave DND on September 03, 2015, 03:56:19 PM
Before anyone starts to panic with twin carbs fearing a similar scenario, it must be remembered that the trips we made recently were biblically wet !!
I have fitted outriggers to mine as well, I had to put the plugs in the floor to stop it sinking
Water injection was around in the late 70's for more power and cooling, but on the filter front i had pancakes let water in stationary and that resulted in a bent conrod.
The cone filters on the buggy have been fine in the monsoons so far as were the Washable K&N elements fitted before it could depend on tyre type and how the spray comes off them as knobblie tyre tend to put more of a rooster tail out behind as road tyres push water out side ways more from my observations following buggies in the rain.
Any baffle/ protection to stop the direct flow has got to help even on the electrical front where my daily has the dizzy wrapped in a rubber sleeve to reduce the impact water has.
Found some time today to bolt the gearbox back in. I`m so glad that I test fitted the front mounts first and opened up the holes a little, as the gearbox slid into place with ease. The same cannot be said though for the two nuts that hold it in place. Like the sides of the Rhino Mount, that central vane on the gearbox mounting is so close to the sidewall of the nuts that you cannot get a socket on them at all. I used a slimmed down ring spanner and slightly smaller nuts, and even then I only just did it. As you can see, there is still good access for the reverse switch and wires on the right.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015117.jpg)
The rear cradle has now been bolted on, and Rhino Mounts fitted using new M8x25 high tensile bolts. I know that everyone says that the Rhino Mounts should not be machined or shaved to make them fit, but now that this in all in place I do feel that a little fettling is required before I go any further. For instance, I feel that the bolt heads protrude a little too far into the gearbox housing and I do not want them to foul the flywheel, so these will be attacked with the grinder making sure they do not get too hot in the process as that would be disastrous for a plastic mount. Also, I am going to shave off around 1mm from the front face here, as despite me pushing them as far back as I can, they still protrude past the front of the bell housing, and I do not want any clearance issues when the engine is offered up. There is an optional strap to go over the top of the box, but I am undecided on this one as yet, so may wait until the engine is in.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015118.jpg)
As well as the normal braided earth strap that goes from the Engine mount to the box, this is where my secondary one is fitted and goes back directly to the battery negative terminal. You would be amazed as to how much difference this can make, and a secondary engine earth is something I do to all of my vehicles.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015119.jpg)
Universal Joints bolted on and time to fill the box with 2.5L of EP90 gear oil while I still have good access to the filler hole
There is often much talk on the forum about clutch cable shortening, or having the correct amount of bend in the Bowden tube - So I thought that whilst I am playing here with a camera in my hand, it might be an idea to show you my own setup, in the hope it may help others.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015120.jpg)
Ignore the cable going off down the bottom left of the picture - its my throttle cable and I haven`t connected it yet
I do wonder sometimes if my Buggy has ADHD and is craving attention this year, because the failures seem to be coming thick and fast at the moment, and this afternoons observations are no exception.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/brick%20wall.gif)
For a while now, my starter motor has been playing up. It can spin the engine over far quicker than many others I have ever had, but every so often a graunching noise can be heard upon pressing the starter button, where it is obvious that the gear wheel has not engaged properly. 2nd press on the button usually has the engine bursting into life, so I have generally ignored it. I was just about to put my engine back in when I noticed that the teeth on my flywheel were not quite the shape I was expecting them to be.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015121.jpg)
Its quite clear what has been happening though. The starter motor is rotating quickly, as it should. The solenoid is pulling the gear wheel out nice and strongly, as it should. The problem is one of timing, as the motor is turning at high speed a few milliseconds before it has had a chance to engage with the flywheel, so instead of meshing with the teeth, its now acting as a grinder and removing them.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015122.jpg)
Well let this be a lesson learned on how those nasty noises should never be ignored, as my flywheel is now toast. I have lost the front edges for around two thirds of the teeth on the flywheel ring gear, with some of them losing near on 3mm as can be seen.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015123.jpg)
A replacement flywheel is required, but I am also going to replace the starter motor as well for obvious reasons - but this isn`t as easy a decision as it should be because I am not sure which one to go for.
Looking at what is on offer from the usual suspects, the Genuine Bosch ones are actually remanufactured ones, which I wouldn`t normally have a problem with except that whilst they are in Bosch casings, they are often not refurbished by Bosch themselves, and can contain internals of dubious quality and yet still command a top OEM price tag. Or the alternative is the hi-torque starters that supposedly come from the USA. Thats what this one was, and yes, it may well have come from the USA, but I suspect it was a detour from China.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/rant.gif)
In the good old days, we all used to use Lucas motors, and even they came with a sticker that said "hit here with a hammer to make it work". :-X
Looking at the pics it seems as if the bendix is hitting the bottom of the teeth before engaging.
When the new bits are in you may just need a tweek of the engine to centre it when it is in before fully tightening the engine bolts so it is all lined up.
I have had flywheels kissing the bottom of the bellhousing before now, a fubard starter bush can do the opposit.
Best way as you say is a high torque or vw auto starter which are self supporting.
Yyou are not having much luck.
I was looking at those self supporting starter motors, and I must admit was somewhat doubtful over the descriptions that followed.
The mounting holes are different sizes and the "D-Bolt" no longer locks against the side of the motor and the spade terminal is now an M4 bolt
Really comes across as a very ill fitting bodge :-\
Where have you been looking at starters the semi auto beetle one is spot on, same fitting and connections if genuine just as vw fitted them.
I got mine from machine7 very happy with it on the big fiat motor turns over well and noise free.
This was the one I saw on the VW Heritage website
(https://d2m4kcr6k6fa8s.cloudfront.net/_img/products/148819/CEDF4861-E16F-4ADA-A15A-C3B4B7909857.jpg)
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/311911023GEN/starter-motor-12v-gen-vw-or-bosch-vwb-a-c-w-c-8-67-1-13/?crumbStartPage=1&crumbStartRow=1
I`ll have a gander at Machine7 though ;-)up
That does not look like a proper bosch one, I will try and get a photo but it is dark and dirty under mine.
Just looked at the Machine7 one, and looks a bit "beefier" to me - more in line as to how I expected a Bosch one to be.
http://www.machine7.com/product.php?xProd=2959&xSec=172
(http://www.machine7.com/shopimages/products444/large/500-dscfA472.jpg)
Also looks to be a direct swap without the faffing about that the Heritage one is advising. That Heritage one just smacks to me of a "this`ll do" rather than a correct replacement.
Bloomin thing is out of stock too - just my luck ::)
Unable to get a photo as it is but mine has the 2 large flat head screws holding the solenoid on just like an old beetle one.
The photo is different to mine but looks better than the heritage one at least number 2 is made in brasil not china buy the look of it.
You can use golf diesel ones but not sure which year or model that is perhaps what number 2 is as it has the vw audi symbol on.
This is the one I got - not 'genuine' but fits without any bodging and works fine!
(https://d2m4kcr6k6fa8s.cloudfront.net/_img/products/61735/39A16769-6FA9-4403-A3EC-F2E854497E8E.jpg)(https://d2m4kcr6k6fa8s.cloudfront.net/_img/products/61735/3E1C3E89-09F7-45B2-9EAC-B228ABE4A91F.jpg)
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/beetle/311911023DX/starter-motor-8-67-type-2-75-no-exch-req-d/?crumbStartPage=1&crumbStartRow=1 (https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/beetle/311911023DX/starter-motor-8-67-type-2-75-no-exch-req-d/?crumbStartPage=1&crumbStartRow=1)
Thanks for that one - but this time around I think I would like to find a genuine "branded" starter instead of the generic ones that I seem to get through each year. To be fair, the last ChineUSA one supplied by Heritage was actually pretty good. But technology has moved on, so where a front bearing was required 40 years ago, that doesn`t necessarily mean its needed now. Having a read through on the interweb, it seems the old style starters like the one you pictured are being phased out, with the self supporting variants replacing them. Lots of positive comments on the new styles too, with the only real negatives being my same concerns that the Heritage one needs a few modifications to use it, unlike the Machine7 one that looks plug and play.
I guess I`ll know for sure when its back in stock and I can order one ;)
Today I had a play with a four piece EMPI front Gearbox strap. Like anything VW, there are a lot of comments on the web about these, and people certainly have a love hate relationship with them. The idea is that they add extra rigidity to the gearbox, and prevent it "twisting" under hard acceleration, or "launching". Some also say that they reduce the amount of vibration when Rhino mounts are used. But from what I have read, the love hate relationship generally comes down to those that have had them fitted and absolutely love them, and those that don`t like them have found them so awkward to fit that they just gave up. After having played around with this, I think I understand where the problems are, and hope this helps.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015124.jpg)
Obviously, there are no instructions with this bit of kit, and very few pictures on the web either, so after painting it blue, I set about fitting it up. The lower strap was fairly obvious how it fitted. It would go around the frame horns at either side, and like any good strap, would clamp around the gearbox at its thickest point, which is where the webbing and bolts are. This bit wasn`t really rocket science to work out.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015125.jpg)
Now this next bit, I think is where the confusion kicks in. The top two "U" shape clamps have a slight angle on the bottom of them, so they do not sit completely vertically if stood on end. So let me explain then, the error that I also made.
If you offer those "U" clamps up to the bottom bracket, the angle of the join in the seam of the frame horn allows them to sit perfectly upright, and perfectly in line with the thickest part of the gearbox at the top, where the webbing and bolts go. If you then offer up the top strap, it just does not fit, but its tantalisingly close to think that it should. At first, you would be forgiven for thinking that this is just another piece of EMPI junk that is malformed, and shortly afterwards I guarantee that you will be thinking about bending something to try and make it fit.
However, if the "U" clamps are turned through 180 degrees so that they tilt back towards the engine, things become somewhat clearer. Providing that you didn`t try bending the top bar to make it fit, you will notice that there is an extra bend on the right hand side - very slight, and it could easily be missed. But on the gearbox, just in front of where the thick webbing is, is a slight bulge that fits this bar perfectly. Assemble it like this, and everything seems to fit properly and bolt up nice and tight.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015126.jpg)
It does feel somewhat strange to assemble this with the top and bottom brackets out of alignment, but doing it this way does seems to work.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015127.jpg)
So, no idea if I have assembled this as EMPI intended, but everything seems to line up without having to force anything. It must be remembered that this is an "additional" support to the main gearbox mounts, and not strictly required, so if I have got it wrong, I guess I will never know.
Was it worth fitting ? Jury is still out on that one until engine back in and on the road once more.
Starter motor wise i have fitted an auto one from coolair vw. Was a straight replacement and does the job v well. Cost about £120.00
Quote from: Mikeohope on September 13, 2015, 10:54:13 AM
Starter motor wise i have fitted an auto one from coolair vw. Was a straight replacement and does the job v well. Cost about £120.00
I`m waiting for one of the genuine Bosch Self supporting starters to arrive from Machine7, as they do not seem to have the same issues of fitment that the Heritage and Coolair ones do. Going for this style over the standard and more conventional ones means that I may not have to change my damaged flywheel.
;)
Any luck with the tyre valves?
Quote from: Manxdavid on September 13, 2015, 11:06:03 AM
Any luck with the tyre valves?
Think so - found some oversized ones in India - just waiting for them to arrive
QuoteGoing for this style over the standard and more conventional ones means that I may not have to change my damaged flywheel
Hmmm... :o
Don't forget that though the starter ring gear is shagged, and believe me it is! It can have a knock on effect
by accelerating wear on the starter bendix as it fly's in and meshes (or try's to mesh), as damage on this scale will
accelerate wear like you wouldn't believe ???
The forces happening locally on the teeth of both components are high and in the scheme of things
a new flywheel would be the obvious choice.
It's just a shame VW decided to hob the ring gear directly onto the flywheel, as it would have been easier for us all
later in time to just shrink a new ring on the flywheel when required...
Hey Ho! :)
Peter, when it comes to the meshing of gears, I cannot think of a more qualified expert to converse with than yourself.
So here is my train of thought.
The original VW starter has obviously turned before engaging, whether down to the internal timing contact turning before engagement, or down to a sluggish solenoid, the after effects are the same, and that is that it has chewed off between 1.5 to 2.8mm of the front face of the flywheel teeth for around 2 thirds of the flywheel. Interestingly, the teeth on the starter motor are unscathed and look brand new.
The teeth on the flywheel are relatively uniform in shape and have no slanting or distorted edges, they are simply shorter teeth. It has to be said that they are still in far better condition that many flywheels I have seen since, and on those being used without issue.
My concern was not so much the initial meshing of the teeth, but of how much of the tooth was missing, and whether there was enough for the short OEM starter gear to engage with. The new style self supporting starters seem to have a longer gear and a slightly longer throw, which would mean unlike the standard VW starter with its little bush at the end, the new starter would actually use more of the flywheel tooth as a result. This would theoretically mean that my missing front edge may not be too much of an issue.
Granted, the front edge of my teeth is not ideal, but it must also be noted that the starter gear is a much harder material and has a slanted leading edge on the tooth to ensure correct engagement, mine will just engage a few mm later than it should, but still no reason why it should not engage correctly given what I have just said. I can dress any bad shaped teeth to make sure they are all uniform.
If I am right, it "may" work, and if I am wrong, then I will have to drop the engine again and replace the flywheel and probably starter, but its a gamble I think I am willing to take at the moment given the alternatives. I am also not completely convinced that the T25 flywheel I have here has an integrated ring, and I have not dismissed the possibilities of removing the ring and turning it around. Need to see a man about a dog for that one.
I do however seriously value your opinion to my ramblings here ???
Anyway,
Replacing the flywheel requires firstly obtaining one. Most secondhand ones I have seen are just as worn and offer no real advantage over mine, so lets look at the new option. Going for a new one (£190) means a 12 week wait for them to come into stock, and then I have to get it machined (£20) and a bearing fitted (£5) for the T25 conversion to my gearbox. It will then have to be shimmed to my engine (£3 per shim) I will then have to source a new clutch (£130), as my current 210mm one will not fit the new 215mm flywheels, (as the 210mm is now discontinued). All in all, its a 3 month £350+ wait, so you can also appreciate that there isn`t much alternatives around at the moment.
:'(
QuoteThe teeth on the flywheel are relatively uniform in shape and have no slanting or distorted edges, they are simply shorter teeth. It has to be said that they are still in far better condition that many flywheels I have seen since, and on those being used without issue
Heaven's, it's in better condition than others you have seen... Phew!
I had forgotten the nature of this build and I guess the cost's are high, well, they are! It's mad :)
Most starter's I have seen, all in fact, have quite a slack approach when they engage and this allows
the gear/bendix to align itself and engage as it it fly's in. I think the aligning of it will be quite severe
and over time will wear the flywheel even more, as once the hardening of teeth is compromised
things will get out of shape quite fast.
The starter will probably be quite a lot harder as the process they go through when being made will be
far more controlled due to them being quite a small part.
The ring gear/fly wheel however is a different story, it's far larger and uniform hardness especially on the teeth
of the ring gear will be more difficult to achieve due to the mass of the flywheel itself 'soaking up the heat and
control being lost at the teeth round the outside....
That's why the old ring gear we used to just shrink on would have been better, I think anyway, as being a smaller
profile and an individual part, the hardening process would be more predictable.
Anyway, that's not happening and I hope a good compromise can be reached in that all goes well with no issues as time goes by.
This is an amazing thread that's got so much detail in it, the gearbox cradle I thought was interesting, as when you bury the
throttle the engine twists 'upwards' at the gearbox end, so its a good idea to concentrate on restraining that movement
rather than bolting it all down solid... Maybe!
I have thought a rear mount that was strengthened on its top would be a good idea. I made one but didn't realise this upwards movement at the time, so I took it off as it wasn't really doing anything, but the idea is good, in that a rubber mount's life would be far longer ;D
It will be interesting to hear how the transmission noise is, to be honest it would do my head in! ;D But I guess I just like a lil quite after all these years :)
Peter,
Just a random thought - If my flywheel ring is integral to the wheel, can it be machined off so that a new ring can be shrunk on?
If so, any clues where I could obtain such a ring?
It would be quite easy to machine the ring gear off, wouldn't be cheap though unfortunately
as the attrition rate using CBN tooling (which really doesn't like interrupted cuts) would be quite high,
that said, it's possible to sacrifice older worn tip's to get the main ring off...
It's an interesting point, as there maybe a ring gear available that would be able to accommodate
the VW starter gear and more importantly, be of a diameter that would restore the original....
I haven't a clue what type/make that :) would be though...
Worth looking into I guess, just for future reference as most things are 'doable...
Maybe!.... :)
Not sure if this is any help bu have to try.
http://www.geneberg.com/article.php?ArticleID=178
Ttfn Glenn
Quote from: 93fxdl on September 13, 2015, 05:22:30 PM
Not sure if this is any help bu have to try.
http://www.geneberg.com/article.php?ArticleID=178
Ttfn Glenn
Nice one ;-)up
You know how it is when you are bored waiting for bits to turn up, your mind starts running away with itself, and before you know it you have rummaged through the garage for that box of LED`s with another little challenge to be sorted out. Today was no exception. With the engine out, and a great big void where it should be, I thought about changing the number plate light over to an LED one. I always meant to do it whilst converting the rear lights but just never got around to it.
LEDs have gone through a bit of a transformation over the last couple of years, from a small warning light on the dashboard, to high intensity ones that a lot of us seem to be playing with at the moment. The most recent generation, which for some unknown reason, are called "COB" lights, and these seem to be the brightest of all. The new LED COB lights have a very yellow appearance when off, and are being used as floodlights and worklights due to their intensity. Karl has a bank of these on the roof of his Buggy, and the light output equals any conventional spotlights I have seen. It was after studying Karls lights, that I got interested in these, and have a big box of them for messing about with.
The claimed output rating of these particular little COBs is an unbelievable 9 Watts each. Its not that they are not incredibly bright, I just don`t trust the unbelievable Chinese ratings, so for arguments sake, I`ll call them 6 Watts instead. Ideal for replacing the 5 Watt candle dimmly lurking behind that grubby lens. I also wanted to fit 2 of them, purely as a failsafe, because if one does go, these are not exactly something you can pick up at Halfords and replace by the side of the road.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015130.jpg)
The recess on the inside of the number plate light holder looked as though it was deep enough to accommodate the two lights, provided I was careful where they were positioned.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015131.jpg)
I roughly cut out a bit of metal from a Stainless sheet I had kicking around to see if my idea would work.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015133.jpg)
A couple of holes were drilled and the lights fitted in place - this certainly looked like it was going to work
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015132.jpg)
At this point, I ought to be saying that they are now fitted and working. But I started this post by saying I was bored waiting for my engine bits to arrive. Well, I now had my big box of LEDs out, there is still a large piece of stainless sheet in view, and the workshop is now littered with tools.
Yep . . . . You guessed . . . . I got a little bit sidetracked once again ::)
Whilst rummaging through my box of LEDs, I came across some of the German slimline ones we had left over from lighting up the underside of a customers car. These are not your normal Chinese LEDs, and were quite expensive. Seems a shame to put them back in the garage though.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015134.jpg)
Back in the 70s, there was a trend amongst Hot Rodders to light up the rear end of your car with a discreetly placed fog light pointing down at the road. In the 90`s, I was a dealer for Koolglow Neons and when the Fast 7 Furious film hit the silver screen around 2000, just about every other customer walking into my shop, left with a giant pair of neon lights to fit underneath their car (often very badly). As the technology progressed towards LED light bars, the light output was severely impaired and as a result, underbody lighting pretty much died overnight.
It was in this queue of traffic earlier this year, that I noticed a blue light on Dave C`s engine, and it did rekindle an old flame for me, as it had been a long time since I had seen this. With my recent find of my box of LEDs, I think you probably know where this thread is now heading.
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/IBW2015/ibw20150706.JPG)
I quickly lashed together a stainless steel box and pop riveted a few of the lights in place. I wanted the lights to to be inside a box that had edges all the way round, so that it was legal. Let me explain. We all know the law about showing white lights to the front and red lights to the rear, and that with the exception of marker lights, you are not allowed to show any other colours at all. Its a grey area that one, anyway, as although the MOT guy may fail you for it, and constructions and useage do not permit it, it you follow the letter of the law in the highway code, it is not always illegal. Still not something to try though. There is actually a very simple way around it, and that is to make sure that the light itself cannot be seen. Walk around the car and make sure that you cannot see the actual light bulb itself. Peer under the wheel arches and as long as you are looking horizontally or downwards, and the light cannot be seen, then there is no way that anyone following you can see the light either. If you are flat on your back looking upwards, then that is fine, because if you have just knocked someone over, then you have bigger problems to deal with. If all you can see is the area that is being lit up by the light, then you are technically within the law, hence the reason to keep them in a recessed holder.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015135.jpg)
Oh come on! You knew it was going to be green! Yes, that box is a right old lash up, but in my defense, this is being knocked together as a quick trial on an afternoon tinged with boredom. If this works, then I`ll probably remake it and make it look presentable. I had an idea about that green waterproof switch, and more will be revealed a little later.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015136.jpg)
Hmmm . . . . . . At near 120 Watts of gorgeous green lighting, I fear that I may have overdone it a little
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015137.jpg)
I drilled a hole in the back of the Buggy, and you can now see where that green switch resides. This gives me a nice hidden switch underneath the number plate light holder. They they take their supply feed from the number plate light which means that I can switch them on and off whenever I want to, or leave them to come on and off as my main lights are activated.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015138.jpg)
Even when looking up inside the arches, you would struggle to see the actual bulbs themselves, which is the prime objective here
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015139.jpg)
This was an end of an era moment. Since I built the Buggy, it has always had an orange bum. It was never intentional, its just that when I finished off spraying the Buggy with a rattle can, I found myself in the middle of a flying ant attack and never got back to finishing it off. Knowing how some of you guys with OCD used to grit your teeth over it made me leave it that way too. However, with the sun shining and a tin of Austin Allegro green to hand, the days of orange are but a distant memory.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015140.jpg)
It has been quite a weekend. What started out as frustration over a lack of spares, and general boredom in the garage, have left me with some cool upgrades to my car and a bit of spray painting to boot. Now, at this point, I really ought to be saying that everything is now fitted and working, but I got sidetracked once more.
In fact sidetracked just doesn`t cover this next bit - because reaching for that paint can has just led me on a whole voyage of discovery to the point that I am going to start a completely new thread just for that bit, even though I know it is going to end in tears!
8)
Hi Dave, how's it going you seem to have been very busy by the looks of things, did you check out the roth rattle bomb metalflake cans, prob not viable in the uk it would be hard to get, I got rid of that terrible 009 pectronix dizzy and stuck the old one back on for now and am waiting delivery of an original solex 34 pict carb from machine 7 so hopefully all will be good for the winter. I've been busy metalflakeing a guitar in hollographic orange, check it out at www.facebook.com/thefunkyflakeshed and gigging a lot, nice under car lights mate :)
I checked out that Roth stuff, and got kind caught up with Ibbotson Flake instead :D
i havent come across them before,i just had a look and they have some interesting stuff like star flakes and a range of yellows,so i assume you got green then,are you gonna brush it on ? i wonder what the stars look like.
As some of you know, I decided to try and paint the number plate light holder with Metalflake by using a paintbrush - but before you all start laughing, take a look at the thread here for the full story of how it went - and then feel free to giggle to your hearts content
http://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php/topic,7580.msg78069.html#msg78069
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015146.jpg)
Anyway, I`m going to fit this bit to the Buggy as it looks far better than the orange one that came off, whilst remaining a different enough colour to keep those of you with OCD in check.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015145.jpg)
I have to say Dave that looks pretty good ;-)up
Cheers mate ;-)up
Does leave me with a bit of a dilemma though, and I bet you can guess what that is too :-X
That look like a good result but am thinking a whole tub may be a job and a half.
Go for it Dave you have all winter to get it done and a nice garage to do it in ;-)up
As I am still waiting for this elusive starter motor to turn up, I thought I would pay some attention to the growing hoard of wheels that arrived a while back (Yes, I did it again) and felt it about time to see what could be done with them. At the moment, I have some 8.5x15 American Racing Slots on mine on 5 stud Chevy adapter plates. After the recent problems a few posts back with stripped threads, I decided that I wanted to get rid if the adapters and revert back to 4 stud. Half a dozen 8.5x15 American Racing 4x130 wheels may have arrived here in one delivery, but believe me, they are still as rare as rocking horse poo and it took some searching to get these.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015148.jpg)
I took a couple of them down to my mate at Wheelpower in Torquay for him to wave his magic wand as I waved all of my credit cards back at him(!). They were first bead blasted and because old alloys are generally porous, they were powder coated instead of painted. Finally the front face was diamond cut to give this nice shiney new appearance. I need to find some Poorboys Wax now, just to finish them off and seal them.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015150.jpg)
Its a shame that most of that red will be covered up when the tyres and wheel nuts go back on though, but does go to show what you can do with some old knackered wheels.
8)
Wow 8)
That, looks amazing ;-)up
Brilliant job :)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015150.jpg)
Things are never quite as straightforward as you hope are they?
I needed to put some valves in my wheels, and unlike the rubber ones we all use on our daily drivers that are ripped out at every tyre change, these old skool alloys use what is known as a bolt in valve, and once fitted, they remain in place when tyres are changed. Trouble is, most alloys these days use an 8mm hole for the valve, and the trend amongst the boy racers is to use hidden valves with removable bits so that you don`t see them. The standard hole size for normal wheels is 11.5mm, and you can imagine what was going through my mind when I measured my own hole at 13mm. Searching around on the net I found a pair of stainless valves from India, and thinking that the tolerances and sizes were probably not that accurate, I took a punt on a set, and this was what arrived a few days later.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015151.jpg)
My suspicions were correct, and the rubber base had a nice fat shoulder that fills the hole nicely, except that when I went to tighten them up, I realised that I had made a monumental schoolboy error and had not taken into account the thickness of the alloy wheel. If you look at the main body of the above valve, and then compare with the second set I had to obtain elsewhere, you will spot the difference in length of the threaded part of the body.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015152.jpg)
With enough thread for them to bolt up nice and tight, the rubber seal has been firmly squashed enough to fill the hole and if I have got this right, then they will hold air. the second set actually felt a better quality of valve, and also came with a metal washer instead of a plastic one.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015153.jpg)
I also managed to find a tub of Poorboys Wax, which is brilliant for sealing the surfaces of the alloys, making them easier to keep clean. The advantage of this over lacquering them is that they do not go yellow or flake when the clear top coat comes off. This stuff is really easy to apply, just smear it on like ordinary wax, let it dry and then buff it off.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015154.jpg)
I`m not quite ready to fit these yet, as have a few other mods that need doing before I think about swapping the tyres over, so shall stick these in the corner of the garage and get on with the next job.
;-)up
They look the dogs Dave but you may be best off taking the powder coat off the bolt holes.
Quote from: Flags on September 30, 2015, 10:26:36 PM
They look the dogs Dave but you may be best off taking the powder coat off the bolt holes.
Absolutely - ;-)up
I`m fully aware that leaving the powder coat there can lead to the bolts working themselves loose, but appreciate the heads up ;-)up
After fitting some longer bits of M5 threaded bar into the mounting holes, I finally fitted the number plate holder back in place and wired it all back up. Colour really is a good match, but I`m not going to contemplate doing any more until I have properly seen what it looks like outside in the daylight. For that I need the car to be running again.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015155.jpg)
Time to concentrate on the engine again
Loks like you may need to topcoat the tub with 2 pack laquer to get a shine like the number plate light. But the experiment results so far look good.
The state of flywheel ring gear on my flywheel certainly seemed to spark much debate. Despite some saying that it could still be used, I decided that it was not something I would ever be happy with, so the flywheel was removed whilst a solution was investigated. Like the rest of the Flat Four VW engines, the T25 lump also relies on having its endfloat set up correctly, and this is where the shims go, around the crankshaft.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015157.jpg)
After much searching on the internet, and various phone calls, it became very obvious that replacing the ring gear was not going to be a viable option. Trying to find someone in the UK that was willing to machine off and refit the gear was about as easy as getting Gene Berg in the states to confirm that they still stocked the ones shown on their website. Because I had a 210mm clutch, I wanted to try and retain that size of flywheel, which is proving to be the Holy Grail, and a size that no one stocks any more. Going larger or smaller, would mean another £150 or so on a new clutch kit. As luck would have it, Mega-Bug stepped in, and sent over one that they had found covered in cobwebs, and it looked in fabulous condition. I sent it down to the local Machine Shop to have the centre bearing put in, which is a modification needed for the 2 litre conversion, and Farmer Rob kindly let me have a few shims at the ready, just in case they were needed when fitting this in place. New Oil Seal arrived from VW Heritage, and I was finally good to go.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015158.jpg)
Flywheel fitted, and endfloat is absolutely spot on. Thankfully, I took a reading before I removed the flywheel for comparison, and fitting this new one in place has made virtually no difference whatsoever - the readings are about the same. Flywheel bolts all torqued up, with copious amounts of threadlock applied. Happy days indeed !
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015159.jpg)
I`ve no idea how you would measure the endfloat the old fashioned way with feeler gauges though, there just isn`t any access. I picked up one of these Dti tools with a magnetic base on ebay for £15, and it makes the job so easy. A worthwhile addition to the tool box.
;-)up
That is exactly how I measure mine with a DTI clock. ;-)up
You can use feeler gauges on a total rebuild engine! You put the new thrust bearing on the bare crank, tighten the flywheel to it and measure the clearance in-between the flywheel and thrust bearing with the feeler gauges ;-)up
Rob
Clutch reassembled today
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015160.jpg)
;-)up
Finally, after many weeks of waiting, my new starter motor has arrived. Technology has obviously moved on in leaps and bounds, as this Bosch one on the right is a fair bit smaller than the Chinese one its replacing, and I seem to recall saying how much smaller that one was many moons ago when I fitted it over the original one. Fitted into the hole with no issues, and all the electrical terminals are the same.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015162.jpg)
Same cannot be said for the "D Bolt" that usually rests against the side of the starter body, that now just spins merrily, but a screwdriver wedged down the side is enough to get it tightened up, and the torque settings on these is pretty low anyway. Now I have the final bolt ready, I can think about putting the engine back in, as didn`t want to hang it on three bolts whilst waiting for this starter to arrive.
;-)up
Easy enough to fit a hex headed bolt or weld a bit onto the original bolt to stop it turning. In years rocome the jammed scewdriver tightening may not work in reverse it the threads start seizing when you want the motor out or starter off.
Never had an engine in there long enough for bolts to sieze ::)
Good call though - I`ll replace it ;-)up
Back when I was playing with the gearbox mounts and straps, amongst the parts that turned up was a rear gearbox strap, and again, its one that many have given up trying to fit, or use very long bolts to pull it into shape. To be honest, I have been unsure about using it, but whilst everything was out, it seemed a good time to offer it up to the gearbox and see what all the fuss was about.
Again, like the front strap, there is a right way and a wrong way to fit this, and the bend in the top that goes around the starter motor is quite subtle. I also put a few other slight bends in place, about 3" from the bolt holes, to bend them inwards a bit, and it made lining up the holes much easier. I stuck it to one side, and decided to think about fitting it once the engine was in.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015163.jpg)
After what has seemed like ages, the engine is finally back in place. I`m glad I had the Hydraulic Bike Jack to do this one, as it was a little more difficult to get things lined up this time - partly because the clutch centralisation was slightly out, and also because there was no "give" in the gearbox mountings, so not a lot to jiggle about to make things line up. Hadn`t thought about that one.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015167.jpg)
As far as the decision on the gearbox strap went, I figured that as I now had one, I may as well fit it in place, but really not sure that my style of driving will do it any justice whatsoever.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015168.jpg)
Really glad I did a mock fitting of this strap a while back though, as without those extra bends, this would have been an absolute nightmare to fit.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015169.jpg)
I think thats most of the "new" stuff fitted, and I can now get on with the reassembly of the other bits I took off
8)
I`m fully aware that things have gone a bit quiet on my build thread of late, and I was hoping to have been on here shouting at how well things were going now, and that everything is back together. Thing is, I hit a bit of a snag when fitting the exhaust pipes back on.
My careful measuring and approximations of where everything would sit with the new engine mounts proved to be as near as damn it, spot on, and apart from a bit of judicious banging and bending of the exhaust centre bracket (yes, I know its split) the pipes appear to sit rather well where I hoped they would sit. The centre pipe bracket fits to the engine casing bolt, and it should have been as simple as putting on a nut and tightening it up. Pah! If only it were that simple.
I offered up the old nut, gave it a couple of turns with my fingers to locate it properly on the thread and commenced tightening it up with a spanner. All seemed well, it was turning nice and smoothly until I got to the last bit to nip it up, and all of a sudden, the nut and the spanner hit the deck. At first my heart sunk, as I feared I had sheared the bolt, but it turns out what I had actually done was to wind the bolt through the crankcase and out the other side, and when I ran out of thread, the nut fell off.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015173.jpg)
The problems then manifested and got significatly worse, as there was precious little on the other side to get hold of to wind the stud back through, and it had appeared to have got itself quite tight in the hole. It does turn, but only just. Solution: Out with the Mole grips then, and just wind it all the way out. The problem here is that by using the mole grips, I have destroyed the threads and it has no option but to come out this way now. Any hardened metal has long since gone, which means the shaft is getting nice and smooth and very difficult to grip. My hands are so sore from clamping the grips on it, that I am now only managing about a quarter turn of an evening. Need to think of a Plan B.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015174.jpg)
What I would like to do is weld a nut on to the shaft, and attack it with a spanner. Because my garage electrics are still unfinished, I need to get this down the road to my mate Bill`s workshop to use his welder, and hopefully it should also be a lot easier to do this on the ramps than lying on my back in the workshop.
Again, if only it were that easy. Bill is currently at deaths door following a brief spell in hospital for Pneumonia (seriously ill actually) and I`m hoping he recovers soon as the workshop is currently locked. That is of course assuming that everything works and the untested gearbox can drive over there under its own steam. My Plan B, now needs a Plan B.
:'(
Would this do the job for you.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-DRIVE-STUD-BOLT-REMOVER-EXTRACTOR-TOOL-REMOVING-DAMAGED-BROKEN-1-4-TO-3-4-/281064415931?hash=item4170bea2bb:m:motIJR-tXOR4Kq0fYsHYjIg
Shaggy,
Not sure if you have ever seen or used one of those extractors, but I also thought the pictures of them look promising.
(http://images.drillspot.com/pimages/2580/258031_300.jpg)
Sadly though, they are HUGE, and need some serious space around them to turn (something I do not have) but the biggest problem I found when working upside down with them was the sheer weight of them. As its a half inch drive they use, its a very heavy chunk of metal. If they did this in a 3/8 or 1/4 drive, then may be of use, but this was almost too heavy to hold in place.
I recently bought a set of these ones that looked hopeful as they are around the same size as as a Spark Plug Socket
(http://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/36T847_AS01?$mdmain$)
But they only come in 2mm increments. Whilst the 8mm one I bought should have fitted the 8mm bolt I had, where I have knackered the surface, the bolt is now nearer 7mm and this just slides over the top - but is still too large to allow the 6mm one to fit (at the moment)
Thats why I thought about welding a nut on this next, and if that goes wrong, I can slim down the shaft to get the 6mm one on.
If all else fails, I`ll drill it out - but really didn`t want to be considering that sort of action if I can help it. There is a thread there, and it does just about turn.
Quote from: Dave DND on October 29, 2015, 08:17:06 AM
(http://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/36T847_AS01?$mdmain$)
But they only come in 2mm increments. Whilst the 8mm one I bought should have fitted the 8mm bolt I had, where I have knackered the surface, the bolt is now nearer 7mm and this just slides over the top - but is still too large to allow the 6mm one to fit (at the moment)
I recently borrowed these off Hunter and I must admit it saved my bacon when trying to remove the broken rocker shaft studs from the cylinder heads in the summer. They were a bit of a pain due to the difference in diameters along the stud length but finally got it out with it.
Rather reminded me of my days as a dental student extracting teeth! :D :D
Quote from: AndyRobinson on October 29, 2015, 08:43:26 AM
Rather reminded me of my days as a dental student extracting teeth! :D :D
:o :o :o
So glad you became a printer :-X
Hi Dave, you know most of the vw studs are threaded from both ends and not one continuous thread! that is why it has gone tight. As you have stripped most of the thread off the one end, it might be best to try and screw it back the other way, Just an idea, you will have to put a nut and bolt in there anyway now.
Rob
I know what you are saying Rob, and rather than a continuous threaded stud, the bolt should have a section that is uncut - (the bit that has gone tight)
However, the bolt has gone so far through, that I`m actually questioning whether it is a continuous stud, as the nut was not the same size as the rest of the engine ones, but more importantly, if it were a correct shape stud, with the uncut shank, then it should never have been able to be wound inwards with such ease in the first place. If you understand what I mean?
:-\
The vw studs often have a smaller diameter section in the middle with no threads rather than just an un-threaded section, if you get my drift :D
Rob
Understood perfectly.
Only one side of the casing has a thread, and the stud originally should have tightened up against the casing when first fitted. This stud has wound through nearly 20mm which is far in excess of what would be expected if that smaller diameter section were indeed present.
Thats whats throwing me a bit. :-\
The small studs are only glued in, the stud has gone in the extra bit because of the smaller centre section and then when it has reached the other end thread, it is not sinked and thus jamming
Rob
That makes sense.
Bugger -- Has to come out the other way then :'(
This evening I thought I would at least try something positive, and that was to connect the battery and see how the starter motor performed.
My last starter gave a grinding noise and then sounded like a sewing machine spinning the engine at warp speed, whereas this one sounds like its starting a huge engine. It sounds "Powerful" if you can understand what I mean, and has a real sound of "heavy duty" quality about it. I guess time will tell, but so far I am really pleased with that starter motor conversion. Engine started really easily too, but then I knew it would.
Gears all seem to engage ok, and clutch appears to function, but cannot take it for a drive just yet as that crankcase bolt is leaking oil quite badly.
:)
Now that the electrics are back on, I thought it time to check out my recent lighting upgrades, and in true Dave DND fashion, i seem to have gone a bit OTT with the number plate light. Those two little Cob LEDS look more like a searchlight than a number plate light, and need to be toned down a bit (Given me a great idea for reversing lights though) as everything is brightly lit in the garage
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015176.jpg)
I still had the original plastic lens, so I ground the back of it smooth and proceeded to cover it in strips of insulating tape until I had a light pattern and brightness that I was happy with. It turned out that there is a raised shape moulded into the plastic, and this seemed to be about right. The tape was removed and replaced with a couple of layers of thick black enamel paint.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015177.jpg)
This was then screwed in place over the top of the panel I previously fabricated with the LED`s in, and as you can see it has dramatically reduced the amount of light coming out.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015178.jpg)
Thats more like it - still far brighter than the 5 Watt bulb its supposed to be replacing, but i`m happy with that now.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015179.jpg)
And I nearly forgot that I also have a new set of lights and a hidden button to play with.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015180.jpg)
Yeah . . . !! Very happy with that one 8)
And it is dark early now for maximum light useage, looks good Dave.
If you need to wind it back the other way. Cut a slot in it for a screwdriver on the side sticking out.
Just catching up after a few days away - you beat me to it Shaggy.
Cut a slot in it and you can drive it in either direction
Sometimes there are just not enough swear words available (http://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/rant.gif)
Good ideas came forward from both Shaggy and Dave about cutting a slot in the end of this stud so that I could turn it with a screwdriver. Access under here is not great, but after removing just about everything I could bolted under and around the engine, I managed to get in there with a small hobby dremel and using at least a million discs, managed to cut a slot in the end for a screwdriver. It would not budge with a screwdriver though, but after several socket attatchments fixed together with a ratchet on one end and a screwdriver socket as I gently turned the handle I got nearly a quarter turn before one of the sides of the shaft snapped where it had been cut. Bugger.
Where the bits sticking out either side of the slot I had cut had bent, they were now of a shape that they were never going to fit through the hole, even if it did turn, so I had no option but to grind it flat and attack it from the other side. Bugger again.
I managed to drill a small pilot hole through the dead center of the bolt, first a 3mm, then a 4mm, and that was as far as I wanted to take it in order to use an "easy out" left handed threaded stud extractor. I have never had much luck with these, and today was no exception. As soon as pressure was put on it to turn it simply sheared in half, leaving the obligatory section inside the hole that I had just drilled. Bugger Bugger Bugger.
Ok then, back to the rear side to what was now a nice flush area to play on. I thought I would try an old trick that I had picked up in using a Torx adapter bit. A pilot hole was drilled through the center of the bolt, 3mm, then 4mm as before. A Torx T20 bit was then hammered into the hole and gave me something I could then get a spanner on. It turned beautifully. I got three complete turns that were nice and smooth right before I sneezed, and you can guess what happened next can`t you. Correct, that bloody thing snapped off in the hole. Need to find another swear word here, as Bugger just doesn`t cut it any more.
Having a look on the other side, there is nearly two threads showing through the hole, but not enough to get any tools on, so I have no option now but to drill out the "easy out" stud and repeat the process. And this is where I am now stuck.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015181.jpg)
The "easy out" is made from super strong material, and because of that most normal drills simply will not go through it. After a chat with Peter, he suggested using a Carbide Drill. After spending nearly an hour with 2 Carbide Drills, I now have an indentation here of around 2mm and do not seem to be making much progress and have now stopped as both drills have snapped.
Any suggestions? :'(
Bugger. Only solution I can think of now is to weld a nut to the exposed end of the stud and undo it that way.
Trouble is Shaggy, the car is not driveable, and my garage electrics are not yet finished for running a welder in here - still running from the house on an extension lead.
Had a quick google, and came up with something from the states called a "Rescue Bit"
https://youtu.be/vvOfUvzgmEA
Anyone ever seen or used these? 3mm bit works out about £45 with shipping and customs, but may just give it a whirl :-\
Call a mobile welder dave, it's not worth the risk on damage to the case.
These things happen and sometimes its hard take after all the work thats gone on.
I think now as Flags says a welder who knows his stuff is going to be needed.
One thing thats working against you here is that the stud is horizontal...
To ensure this is done right first time will really need the engine on its side with the stud
welding face at the top, molten pools of metal will run all over the place if not and the only
way I have seen this successfully done is when using a TIG welding set up...
All sorts of things cross my mind, like do you know anyone with the rolling cage that can literally roll
an entire car on its side....
Otherwise its going to be an engine out job, orienting the engine on a pallet or something to enable welding..
Anyway, best of luck with it, am sure all will be fine in the end ;-)up
Peter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6w2grAV-oc
Good suggestions regarding a mobile welder. ;-)up
However, this would involve someone lying on their back to gain access to it, it would not be an easy job, and in a town where there are very few welders and a multitude of Agricultural and Marine jobs to do, trying to find someone who would tackle this around here just ain`t gonna happen as there are much easier jobs to do. I was hoping to get it onto my mates ramps to weld it, but he has been struck down with a very serious case of Pneumonia (that has included a hospital stay), and since being let out, the idiot just isn`t taking enough care and is going to kill himself the way he is carrying on. (Bill, if you are reading this, stay at home and rest you daft bugger) anyhow, it does mean that welding is not really on the cards at the moment and I need to muddle forwards with a Plan B.
Peter is correct about the problematic bolt being horizontal and any molten metal is just going to act upon gravity, so again, in reality its a bit of a non starter. The idea of rolling the car in one of those cages is also fraught with problems, unless you drain anything containing fluid - because it will go to all the places you do not want it. Batteries, washer fluid, gearbox and engine oils, brake fluids are all going to give you trouble. Those rolling cages are brilliant for restoration when dealing with a bare shell, but for a road going vehicle? Forget it.
I`m going to try that "Rescue Bit" that I found earlier and if that fails, then the engine will come out, will be turned on its side and we can deal with whatever mess I make at a later date. I am however confident enough with a dremel to give it a go though. Because of where it is, should I hit the side of the casing or damage the thread, there is still enough metal there to go up a bolt size and tap a new thread without compromising anything internally.
We shall soon see if that confidence was misplaced :-\
Good luck mate. I had a few frustrations with a new engine and have some idea how you feel
Dave
I know this guy will be no use to you due to location http://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php/topic,5785.0.html but you may recall I had a snapped exhaust stud and it had only a tiny amount sticking up - he had it out in seconds and was worth every penny... if you can find someone similar locally it would save you a world of pain.
If only . . . . .
Nobody around here wants to come and do this mobile. There are a couple of places in Exeter and Plymouth that say they will have a go at it, but they do not want an engine delivered there, they want the offending part only. When I said it was a stud in a crankcase, they reply from them was to split the case and take them the 1/2 casing only.
Bugger that. If I was going to split the case, I could probably unwind this with my fingers given the amount of stud that would be showing.
The guys down here really do not need the work, they have more than enough to keep them busy.
Not given up yet ;-)up
your problem is access if you could get straight on with a small drill from the passenger side the process off drilling down the center of it in increasing drill sizes should make it screw back through if it was loose. have you tried warming the ally as it will expand more than the steel but care is required as cases do burn.
Perhaps a stupid idea, but if you have couple of threads only showing, could you not chemical metal a nut on to what's showing and give that a try until the welding option becomes available ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? (which we know will work) ;-)up
Passenger side is in a lot worse state and also full of hardened bits, but I`m saving that side for if I need to drill the entire bolt out rather than unbolting it - so would rather tackle this from drivers side for now.
@Hudge, that was not a stupid idea at all, and you have got me thinking. Chemical metal is not going to be string enough to attatch in the way you are envisaging, however, if I can hollow out the exposed bolt, I could chemical metal the rest of the broken easy out back in there, and it would prevent the "point loading" on the sides that caused it to break in the first place.
Nice one - thats given me a really good idea ;-)up
Easy-outs are too hard IMHO, if you can get a hole in it use a VG quality tap or spiral fluted screw extractor, the more you mess with it using chemical metal or the like the harder you will make the proper job.
just as an idea,i had a damaged allen bolt(countersunk)today on a sh..ty german print machine.
couldnt get it out with an allen key as it was too far rounded.
now i could of drilled it out but thought id try another way first.
found a 6mm torx bit was too big but i could tap it into the allen bolt and it came out a treet.
so if you can drill the stud a reasonable size hole at least a torx bit isnt tapered and not as brittle so you might have more luck this way.
This sorry saga has been a bit quiet for a while, as I have been waiting for the "Rescue Bit" to arrive from the States. It got held up at customs and I seemed to have been hit by just about every bit of paperwork, import duty, handling charges, you name it, I got it, and all for a sodding drill bit. £60 later I now have this in my hands and I really hope that it was worth it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015182.jpg)
Initial impressions were that it looks like a very fine die grinder attachment, and before tackling the broken stud, I thought I would try it on the remaining half of the easy out that I had sticking out of the vice. Sure enough, using the side of this bit, it cut through the tool steel fairly well. Slow, but a very clean cut. Right then, time to tackle that stud.
The problem with having such a short drill bit was that the chuck of my drill was fouling the engine casing and preventing me from getting a good line of attack, even with the exhaust removed. I tried an air drill, I tried a cordless drill and at one point I even had a right angled drill running off a cordless drill balanced precariously on sky hooks trying to drill a pilot hole through really toughened steel. Yeah, this just wasn`t happening. Then I remembered what the video said about this rescue bit, that you could run it at really high speeds, so I dug out my little Dremel.
Initially, the Dremel made fairly short work of drilling into the stud, but after about 4mm of penetration it was obvious that both ends of this Rescue Bit were now somewhat blunt and I was unable to drill any further. However, the sides of the tool were still fairly good at removing the bulk of the offending lump, and I kept on with that until the batteries went flat. I now had a 4mm deep hole about 4mm wide, and still no way to remove this. So, I decided to cut a slot across the face of the stud to see if I could get a screwdriver on it. After making the perfect size slot for my screwdriver, it wasn`t long before I found that the side walls of the stud were now too thin and they broke away as I applied a little pressure. Bugger. The only positive side to this was that there was now a little less metal in the hole, but I cannot say I took any comfort from this.
Bill turned up at the house the other day after his bout of pneumonia and after a few seconds of scratching his head also, said that we really needed to get it up in the air for a proper look. Great, I thought - I don`t even know if this drives yet after the gearbox transplant, but after throwing the exhausts back on and with a spare can of oil in the back, I left a nice brown trail of oil all the way to the workshop where we stuck it on the ramps to see what we were dealing with. I am proud to report though that all appears fine with the gearbox, save for an annoying squeak from the rear brakes and whilst I had got the clutch adjustment spot on, the gear selection did seem a little "tight" but then that was to be expected with a new box.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015183.jpg)
Bill got the MIG welder out and tried to weld to what was left of the stud in the hope that he could build up enough metal to get a pair of grips onto it. There will be no surprises in saying that the first attempt didn`t remove the stud, but it did remove what was left of the broken easy out tool, leaving behind the original pilot hole that I had drilled. It may have taken me backwards to where I was a month ago, but seeing that hole again felt like real progress.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015184.jpg)
Whilst we were formulating a new plan of attack, another one of my mechanic mates, Steve, made an appearance in the workshop and also had a good head scratch over the mess I had made of this. Everyone agreed that I could not have physically done any more to make this any harder to remove. We were all in agreement though, that drilling the hole bigger in order to insert and weld something in there was probably the next step to take. I got a bit concerned by the amount of swarf that came out over the next few seconds, and feared we had gone through the crankcase, but my fears went away as I realized that the swarf was magnetic, and had come from the steel stud, not the ally casing. The hole was opened up for a suitable 5mm bolt to be inserted. Unbeknown to Steve, Bill gave the area surrounding the stud a liberal spray with some penetrating liquid which had quite an effect when Steve picked up the MIG torch. Not sure which was funnier, the ensuing fireball, the bolt that shot across the workshop like a bullet or part of the stud that shattered in the explosion. It was agreed that there was a lot less metal left in the hole though and we must be at least 50% of the way there. Whilst Steve was searching for his eyebrows, I found the bolt.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015185.jpg)
So now we had nothing left to weld to and a good 10mm of stud still stuck in the hole. Maybe tie to have a closer look at the other side where the Torx bit has broken on me. Although the stud was recessed from this side, there was a bid section of broken bit that would probably have prevented any rotational movement anyway. Bill attacked this side with a die grinder so at least we has a relatively flat surface to work with whilst Steve tried his best to sharpen the Rescue Bit. He was far better at getting a cutting edge on that tool as he was using it, because it wasn`t long before it snapped on him whilst trying to drill through the remains of the Torx bit. A silly suggestion was made, wondering if we could drill through the stud from the other side and then knock out the remains of the Torx bit using a punch. Bugger me, that actually worked too, and left us with a small hole through the stud where daylight could be seen. From here it was plain sailing, 4mm drill bit, 5mm drill bit, 6mm drill bit and after a bit of gentle tapping with the punch, we were eventually left with a hole.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015186.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015187.jpg)
The autopsy on the remains of the stud indicate that the threads all look clean and true, which goes with what happened in the first place, as it was wound through the hole with very little force, and it was my own brute force and ignorance that probably nicked a thread whilst trying to return it to its original position that caused it to jam in the first place. Interestingly, there was no evidence of any shank, so it does appear as if it was a simply threaded bar with no explanation why I could not remove it when it was half hanging out. I do however give myself, Bill and Steve a big pat on the back because was not only that a large part that came out in one piece with at least 50% of the threads intact, but despite everything we threw at it, the hole is shown to be drilled perfectly through the middle of the stud.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015188.jpg)
And by a real stroke of luck, there was even enough thread left for me to wind through a new M8 bolt with washers to hold the two halves of the crankcase together whilst leaving enough thread for me to use to secure the exhaust bracket. I have to take this all apart again when I get home, so I can reassemble the rear cage etc, and I cannot say that I am really looking forward to that, bearing in mind what happened last time.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015189.jpg)
Not sure I would consider myself lucky that I have now got this sorted, as just about anything that could have gone wrong, did go wrong, but I have learned a hell of a lot along the way. If I was faced with this again, then I would have tried to seek professional help a lot earlier, but being stuck down this neck of the woods my options there have been really limited. Biggest mistake I think I made was trying to do this with the car jacked up and working from underneath. What I should have done was drop the engine and turn it upside down for better access. Would I recommend the "Rescue Bit" ? - Yes, actually I would, and it is one of the few tools that will drill through hardened tool steel, however, I completely disagree with the instructions because whilst the sides of the tool cut brilliantly when run at high speed, if you are using the end to drill a hole, then normal speeds and practices should really be observed.
See what I can Bugger up next then . . . . .
Well done Dave, bit of endeavour gets you there every time. 8) 8)
Paul
Nice one DND, proper engineering solutions, looking back, do you think " what was all that fuss about ;D"
Quote from: HUDGE BUGGY on December 11, 2015, 05:33:54 PM
looking back, do you think " what was all that fuss about"
Looking back, I cannot think of anything else that could have gone more wrong ::)
on the bright side you are now our broken stud removal expert, who now has a running buggy.
Well done Dave ;-)up
Quote from: snoopy on December 11, 2015, 06:50:37 PM
on the bright side you are now our broken stud removal expert, who now has a running buggy.
Fixed that for you ;D
Determined to play in the garage for a few hours today, and managed to find a few dribbles in the bottom of a can of black engine paint - not much, but just enough to cover up some of the mess that has been made over the last few months. However, I am pleased to say that I am now back on track to where I was nearly ten weeks ago, with one exception. Progress has been made as the exhaust hanger nut has now been fitted and I can carry on putting my car back together again.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016001.jpg)
With the modifications made to the gearbox cradle, and the design of the new rear mounts, there was an element of preliminary guesswork done with the result being fingers firmly crossed that the exhaust cross pipe at the rear would actually miss them - and luckily it did, but not by much.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016002.jpg)
Thankfully, as the engine is now more rigidly mounted, there will be no more side to side rock, and the smaller gap I now have should hopefully not prove to be a problem.
Where the exhaust cross pipe at the rear has been rotated and moved just a fraction to get around the larger engine mounts and gearbox cradle, it has meant that the exhaust does not sit quite so well as it did before, so the car has been over to my mate Bill for a couple of days for him to do a bit of fetlling and re-welding of a few joints, the result being that the Cannons now sit nicely, just as they did before.
I`d like to give a report on how the gearbox feels now that it has been fitted, but you may have seen the weather reports today, and it is nothing short of Armageddon down here on Paignton Seafront, and my mind was more focused in dodging the waves crashing over the roof, than how the car felt. I was soaked and I just wanted to get home.
That said, there are some noticeable differences in how it feels. Yes, I can feel the vibrations of the engine gently shaking the car. Its not to the level of annoyance, but it certainly doesn`t feel as "silky smooth" as it did before. You can certainly feel the engine tickover and revving when stationary, and when moving along it is pretty negligible, but where it does seem to be fairly noticeable is under hard engine braking. That is going to take some getting used to, and I think if I went everywhere with a roof on, then it may be another matter. Early days yet, and this isn`t really a fair test, but so far, so good.
The car is now back together again, and I thought it about time that I gave it a run. The gear changes are understandably a bit tight as everything needs to settle down, but the car didn`t like being opened up on the dual carriageway. seemed a bit "hesitant" when floored in 4th. Could be because the temperature was just below freezing, could be I was too cold to drive it properly, but something is niggling away at me that it may need a bit of a tune. To be fair though, I haven`t actually balanced the carbs since I have had it, and with so much being dismantled recently, this could be a good place to start.
But at least I made it to the pub for Club Night ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016003.jpg)
Quote from: Dave DND on February 16, 2016, 10:48:11 PM
But at least I made it to the pub for Club Night ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016003.jpg)
Darn it!!! I blooming well missed it!!!! :-[ :)
Got to get me some blue LED's :D
Quote from: Mickyb on February 17, 2016, 04:26:37 PM
Got to get me some blue LED's :D
Mr Plod dont like that
Quote from: Mickyb on February 17, 2016, 04:26:37 PM
Got to get me some blue LED's :D
If searching around - look for "LED 5050 SMD Modules" as they are better than the usual leds that most use ;)
If you look around on the Interweb these days, you will find that there are quite a few kits available for upgrading the carburetor and whilst there are just as many arguments for one type over another, invariably, the choice for the Type 25 / Type 4 usually boils down to Weber Vs Dellorto. Now the problem here is sourcing a good one, because most of the Webers I could find seemed to be poorly made Chinese copies, and the production of decent Dells ceased back in Noah`s day. For that reason, rather than trying to source a serviceable pair through eBay, I opted to go to Eurocarb, and obtain a pair of factory refurbished Dellorto DRLA40`s for an Alfa Romeo, along with a few bits and pieces to adapt them for use with a Volkswagen.
It wasn`t long before lots of shiny bits arrived on my doorstep, but a quick word of caution must be made before ordering a kit like this, as not all bits are as easy to fit as you may think, and if you are not careful, the overall height can easily get out of hand and cause some clearance issues.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016004.jpg)
Before any parts are allowed near my Buggy, I always have a good look at them, get a feel for them and I like to test fit and assemble any parts before going any further. There were no instructions whatsoever, and the number of nuts and bolts supplied had me a baffled for a while as to where they should go. I located a set of very poor instructions for the linkage on the Eurocarb Website, but they were about as bad as bad could be. So, it was down to my own devices to see what mess I could make of this kit. It must be stated that I am a complete Carb novice, and what I know is from reading and talking to people. I am going to write this as I go along, so if any mistakes are made, you will see where/how/why I went wrong, and hopefully you can avoid making the same if following me here.
So, lets start with the business end then, the actual units themselves. They appear at first glance to be "handed" ie: one is for the left and one is for the right hand side, but that is only really down to the way the linkage mechanism is currently fitted on the end, and even that looks as though it could be removed and fitted the other way around. Other than that, the carbs look identical, Yes? Well, actually No, my pair are not, but your pair might be. Let me explain. Not all of the Carbs have a Vacuum advance take off point. Not all of the original Alfa Romeo`s utilized them, (as they had a very different ignition setup), and it is not uncommon to be supplied two identical Carbs. It must also be duly noted, that unlike a pair of single choke carbs, when using a pair of twin chokes, the Vacuum suction is so poor and so weak that it is often dismissed. The pipes are simply blanked off and a non Vacuum distributor is subsequently fitted such as the fabled Bosch 009. This is quite a normal and common practice, however, it is also one that I currently disagree with (more of this much later) but suffice to say, that when I ordered my kit, I specifically asked to make sure that one of them had a Vacuum port, which you can just see to the right of the golden screw on the right hand choke of the carburetor on the left.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016005.jpg)
At the moment, I know that setting up these carbs is going to be a right mix of black magic and witchcraft, so I need to at least learn what the names for the various bits are. Today, I learned that the aluminium inserts down those two big holes are called the Venturi, and like every other interchangeable performance part, that they come in different sizes. Looking down the holes (Oops! - sorry - Venturi) I can see that mine are stamped with a 30 - so I guess thats the size of mine then.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016006.jpg)
Something else that is fast becoming apparent, is just how easy it is to change jet sizes on these carbs. In olden days, you had to remove the carb, strip it down, unscrew the jet and then reassemble it. It was quite labour intensive. Well, those two brass bits sticking out of the top like two fingers are not only easily accessible with the air filter removed, but if unscrewed, carry all of the jets in one place. Eurocarb supplied me with a set of jets that they thought would be a good starting point, but were different to the ones that everyone else in VW Land seemed to have ended up with. But they were as good as gold when I asked them to change them over, and quickly sent me back the ones I had asked for. Again, I`m not sure what they all do just yet, but on the left is the Air Corrector (175), in the middle is the Emulsifier (9164.2), and on the right is the Main Jet (130) and those numbers correspond to the jet sizes I am going to initially start with.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016013.jpg)
Now that we are fairly familiar with the Dellorto DRLA40, its time to start preparing them for use on a VW instead of an Alfa Romeo. Most, if not all of the modifications are as a direct result of fitting a Hex Bar type linkage to them. Originally, these would have just had an air filter bolted to the top of them, but because we are adding nearly 20mm of gaskets, base plates and trumpets, the original studs in the top are going to be far too short. My kit has a new set of extended studs, so it is a simple case of out with the old and in with the new.
Apologies if this picture is teaching your grandmother to suck eggs, but not everyone knows how to remove a stud, and those trying it for the first time may well make the mistake of grabbing a pair of pliers and destroying that thread. All you need to do is add two nuts onto the stud, and gently tighten them against each other. Using a spanner on the lower nut, the stud can then be unwound from its hole, and when putting the new stud in, tightening the top nut will tighten the stud into the hole. Two spanners on the nuts, and they are easily removed once undone from each other.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016007.jpg)
Be careful when changing the studs that you get the rights ones in the right places, as there are two different lengths. The longer studs fit on the side with the pump and the screws. The difference in height can be seen here, with the new ones fitted to the carburetor on the right.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016008.jpg)
Included in the kit were some very thick cork gaskets, and these are used between metal surfaces to ensure that air cannot get in where we do not want it to. These particular ones, supplied by K&N are very thick.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016009.jpg)
This is where having poor instructions proved to be a problem, when it came to fitting the Hex Bar mounting plates. After reading the instructions many times, it clearly stated that the plates were handed and marked L and R, yet the ones in my hand were not only unmarked, but they were absolutely identical. Well that was one of my first mistakes, as I promptly set about messing with the plates to see which way would work best, and then it suddenly dawned on me that due to the layout of the flat four engine, that the carbs would not actually be in line with each other, so if I reversed one of the plates, the hex bar would actually fit in a nice straight line. Yes, I knew that one end was too far away from the linkage to make it work, but knowing the linkages could be fitted at either end of the carburetor, I didn`t think it would be an issue and would be fiddled with later when I looked at the linkages.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016010.jpg)
Make no mistake, these carburetors are going to end up being quite tall, and clearance is going to be a problem if not careful. The main body is around 95mm in height, but as I added the next cork gasket, I soon discovered that the cork and the linkage plate had added another 10mm to the overall height. I must confess that in my initial calculations and measurements that I had not taken this extra thickness into consideration. I was still very confident that they would fit though, but for some of you, that extra 10mm could be a problem.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016011.jpg)
The Air filter base plate is then fitted. Most air filters of his style will either have a single bolt in the middle, or a bolt at each end for holding on the lid, and K&N, for reasons best known unto themselves, decided to fit four bolts which actually make the lid quite cumbersome to fit when lining up all the holes into the top. Now 99.9% of you will stop here and simply add the filters, but I have a little further to go yet.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016012.jpg)
You see, I have decided to fit the "Trumpets" to mine. Now there is an art and a science behind these and it is to do with smoothing out the airflow by eliminating and controlling the air turbulence and vortexes as the air enters the top. There are different lengths available for tuning low down grunt, or high top end. Most people do not bother to fit them, and I can fully understand why, because to be perfectly honest, they are ridiculously expensive and on our engines it is doubtful that they will make a sods worth of difference. But that is not why I am struggling to try and fit them, and the key word here is struggling. You can see that those upright posts are somewhat obstructive, and I am going to need a good session with a file before I can make them fit.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016014.jpg)
My reasoning for fitting these Trumpets is nothing to do with performance and more about the water problems I had during the Monsoon summer of 2015. That summer was so wet, that a few of you even went so far as to design water deflection plates to prevent the air filters filling up with water. My thoughts here are to use 25mm high Trumpets and raise the water line, so even if the internal base plate of the carb becomes saturated, it doesn`t just run straight into the engine. Instead of concerning myself with trumpet heights, the only figure that matters to me is the minimum 25mm clearance between the top of the Trumpet and the top of the filter to allow unrestricted air flow.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016015.jpg)
I am now ready to fit the air filter and top cover, and this illustrates ones of the downsides of using these K&N filters. Trying to get all four studs through the holes of that top plate can be quite fiddly, but a quick wiggle and they will eventually come through. The filters come in various heights, and I opted to use 63mm which (if I have my measurements correct) should ft under the bodywork.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016016.jpg)
I wanted to get the filter on there as soon as possible, so that any crap in the garage is prevented from dropping down one side of the carb at least, and now this is done, its time to strip this down and put the linkage base plate the right way around and then turn my attention to the huge amounts of nuts and bolts that make up the hex bar linkage itself.
At this point, I should have been looking at these and admiring my handywork. But I wasn`t. In fact I was becoming increasingly annoyed with myself with a single word going round and round in my head and that was Bugger. Only after I had fitted the top of the air filter did I suddenly realize which way the linkages would rotate and how flawed my plan was. Bugger. Have to take them all apart again and refit the Hex Bar plate with both the linkage extensions at the same end.
Brilliant ;-)up
I have found the guy's at Eurocarb to be amazing and very helpful, this will be
an interesting article in this thread, and maybe useful to put into the help section
when it's all done too...
Re jetting and learning what happens will be very useful ;-)up
Peter
Thanks Peter, nice to know someone enjoys my ramblings ;-)up
I have to agree with you about Eurocarb, they are indeed very helpful - (not cheap though)
But then its the old thing of getting what you pay for, and that includes good service from a reputable company ;-)up
Its all very interesting, and nice to see a small project being done like this,
the setup and jetting can be tuned quite finely as all engines are slightly different, Chris Jordan
has made inroads into all this too.
In a daft way I find it all quite enlightening :)
If its ok I would like to add some of your pictures to the carb albums I have, with links :)
As always Peter, help yourself to any pictures - no need to ask ;-)up
Time to have a look at the throttle linkage. This is where the real modifications are made to convert from an Alfa Romeo fitting to a Volkswagen fitting, and in theory, should be nothing more than unbolting the Original linkage from the Carburetor and refitting the parts from the kit supplied.
I bought the more expensive CSP linkage kit, mistakenly thinking that it would be of a slightly superior quality. I was a little surprised that the instructions suggest to remove the complete Alfa Romeo mechanism from the Carburetor and also to rely on a big spring on the adjoining Hex Bar for correct operation. I am absolutely appalled by this, as it not only looks really crap, but you can see that it is so poorly made that the throttle stop arm doesn`t even come into contact with the adjuster screw - And this was the upmarket kit?
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016018.jpg)
Time to stop and look at the rest of the bits in the kit I think. From appearances it looks like a fairly basic Hex Bar kit, just like any other, except that it runs in a pair of rose joints instead of the tube with the plastic ends. That bit seems ok, but I am a bit saddened to see that like every other aftermarket kit, they use a return spring that is just thrown on as an afterthought. And these springs are always problematic.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016021.jpg)
Eurocarb are lucky its a Sunday and they are not answering the phone, whilst CSP are just lucky that they are not closer, else they may find me on the doorstep trying to insert a hex bar. No, I am not a happy bunny. These parts are shamefully poor in quality. I have no doubt though that anything that is returned back to me is going to be of equally poor quality these days, so I guess its down to me to solve it with some clever fabrication. With the CSP manual now torn up, a snotty phone call looming on Monday morning, I need to calm myself and take a close look at the parts I have to work with in front of me. Most of it is there, just none of it fits.
At the moment, I have a pair of twin Weber 34 ICT`s with a Hex Bar linkage, and it is very smooth in operation. Both of my carburetors each have a return spring and there is zero lateral play in the linkage. This is a good starting point.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016023.jpg)
Closer inspection of the original Alfa Romeo linkage reveals it to be exactly as expected. Its very nicely built with a vertical screw on the left to adjust when the throttle opens and closes with respect to the other carburetor, the important horizontal screw to adjust the point where the throttle stops for the tick over, and a nice big spring to make sure everything returns back to its starting point when the pedal is lifted. I cannot, however use it as is, because the ball joint for the linkage is on the wrong side and of course the wrong size goes without saying.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016017.jpg)
Time to come up with a Plan B then. With the CSP arm on top of the Alfa linkage, some of the differences can be seen straight away. The instant thought is to simply drill out the Alfa Ball joint and use the hole to connect the linkage to. This has two flaws though. Firstly, the distance from the central pivot point to that outer hole will affect how much travel the throttle pedal has, and if the distance is too great, then there may not be enough floor travel of the pedal to actually achieve full throttle. The other problem is the Alfa lever is made of "Unbendium" and because it is bent inwards, that may also cause the linkage to fowl when operated. I can see straight away where a few modifications can be made. The Alfa Throttle stop arms are important to retain for correct adjustment, which means the extension on the CSP arm is just going to get in the way. The CSP bracket doesn`t actually sit flush, but if it had a hole in it, the Carburetor return spring could also be retained.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016019.jpg)
In fact, whilst I am at it, that vertical screw on the left can probably go, as the hex bar has adjustable arms that will do the same thing. After 20 minutes with the angle grinder, I am now left with a linkage that looks like this and works perfectly.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016020.jpg)
The pattern is then repeated for the other Carburetor. With the linkage arms fitted, I now have full independent control of each carburetor, full throttle stop control and a really smooth return spring action designed by Alfa Romeo that works a damn sight better than the CSP one.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016024.jpg)
Next thing I need to do is get them physically mounted onto the car.
Another fine piece by your good self. Keep going Dave, your solution is a lot better than the rubbish often supplied.
Paul
Cheers mate ;-)up
I really cannot believe just how bad this mechanism actually was >:(
The inlet manifolds I am using are the Short CSP ones. They are almost half the height of the standard ones and cost twice as much. I have seen a lot of comments about inlet manifolds, and there seem to be quite a few that fall well below the standard bore size of 40mm which means that any vapour traveling through them would be heavily restricted. Something work checking for when you order your manifolds.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016025.jpg)
I know I keep going on about the height issue, but when you see a Dellorto DRLA40 next to a Weber ICT34 hopefully you will start to understand why. Do not forget that my inlet manifolds are half the standard height, and my Air Filter is considerably smaller than the standard ones you get with the kits.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016027.jpg)
With the old manifold now off, we need to remove the studs so that the long bolts supplied with our much larger manifold can be fitted. If you recall the spanner and nut trick I explained earlier, the same needs to be done here, just taking a bit of care as these studs can be very tight indeed.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016028.jpg)
With the faces of the cylinder head cleaned, and new gaskets fitted, the manifolds were bolted into place. I know it would have been easier to bolt the carbs to the manifolds first, but I wanted to remove as much weight as possible when bolting to the cylinder head in order to achieve the maximum seal I could before tightening everything up. These manifolds do not have the balance pipe from one side to the other, and whilst it is used for the brake servo when this engine is fitted to a van, opinion is divided when there is no servo fitted. I only fitted the balance pipe to my old manifolds as the holes were there, but as these do not have any, I will not bother. What I will bother with though, are those green gaskets, as they are special thermal gaskets designed to prevent fuel evaporation when the engine is turned off. Not convinced that they will make that much difference, but for the sake of a couple of quid each, I couldn`t think of a reason why not.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016030.jpg)
And the moment of truth . . . . . Phew ! They fit !
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016031.jpg)
With both carbs now bolted down, I thought I should connect the fuel lines next because I did not want the open ends to leak whilst unconnected. When I ordered the Carburetors, there were a few options open to me as to how the fuel lines would connect, and I went for the type known as a Banjo, because I knew it would be easy to change if needed. They supplied me with the Banjo fitting shown at the top for an 8mm fuel pipe, somewhat larger than the 6mm pipe I had already rigged the car with, but all I needed to do was to obtain a M14x6 Banjo to replace it with. M14 is the size of the large hole, whilst 6mm is the pipe size. the picture shows the different size washers that also hold this in place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016032.jpg)
With the fuel lines now connected either side, the list of things needing to be done was rapidly coming to an end. The Vacuum pipe has been connected to the Left Hand Carburetor, but as previously said, I will come back to that one later once I have proven or dis-proven a theory.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016033.jpg)
The arms were slid into place on the Hex Bar, but not tightened up yet as their position was yet to be determined. Very important to make sure that the Carburetor arms are mounted approx 60 degrees from the central throttle one. The Hex Bar was mounted on a rose joint at either end, and I liked this idea, however, I did not like the idea of allowing the bar to effectively "float" between the two rose joints as is the norm with most Hex Bar set ups. So I have bolted one end directly to, and hard up against the right hand Rose Joint, whilst allowing the threaded rod coming out of the left end as shown here, to be adjusted so it clears the rose joint and no more. This gives a really smooth rotation with zero lateral movement. Exactly what I was after. And that return spring? That was left to one side, because I do not think it will be needed - At least not yet.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016035.jpg)
Before attaching those vertical links, its important to make sure that the ends are wound in as far as they will go. One is a left hand thread and one is a right hand thread, and once fitted, adjustment is made purely by rotating the central bar. The small nuts attaching them to the Carburetor and the Hex Arm should have some form of nylock nut, or at least a blob of thread lock on them, as this can be a common area of failure. With those in place, the arms are slid along the Hex Bar to get the linkages as close to upright as you can.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016036.jpg)
When you are satisfied that you have full movement with nothing hitting or fouling anything, the Hex Bar Arms can then be locked into place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016037.jpg)
The process is then repeated for the carburetor on the other side, making sure that nothing fouls. Once this has been done, there is one more check to do. Ideally, the linkages will be fully upright, but in reality, there will be a slight angle on them. There is nothing wrong with this, but it is, however, very important that the angles on each side look the same, else the Carbs will operate at slightly different speeds, which would not be good.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016038.jpg)
After a bit of fiddling with the vertical linkage adjusters, I have got it to a stage when I can hear a clonking noise from both sides when the throttle comes to rest. If both carbs are coming to rest at exactly the same time, its a good starting point for tuning. I have also determined, much to my relief, that the return spring on each side appears to work perfectly, and nicely closes each side with a reassuring snap.
Just the throttle cable to connect. One of the King sized bodges I made when I put the Type 25 lump in was to use the knackered end of a cable guide tube with a roller on it. I always meant to revisit this at some point, but life just got in the way, and if perfectly honest, it worked so well, I forgot about it. With the orientation of this cable now higher, I had to turn my bodged guide tube through 180 degrees, and again, liberally smear it with Chemical Metal to hold it in place. I will get another tube at some point, but its Sunday, the shops are shut, and there is no other means to attach this.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016039.jpg)
The foot pedal feels silky smooth, and the linkage opens fully with the pedal flat to the floor. There is only one more thing left to do, and that is turn the ignition on to see what happens. I give it a good minute or so to let the carbs fill with fuel before cranking it over. There are a few pops and backfires, but after a couple of attempts it has burst into life. It starts, it revs, and it just about ticks over.
Time to stop for the day, retire with a beer, and read up on some witchcraft and black magic
Or as you lot know it as . . . Tuning and balancing.
A good write up there Dave, easy. See why folks get fed up with stuff they are sold these days.
Looking good Dave. You need those thermal gaskets, when I got my carb kit it just had card gaskets and the noise of fizzing fuel when I parked was something else.
How did the Monday morning phone call go?
Everything's looking very good and its interesting hearing in detail some of the issues, like height etc.
This is only a suggestion, but something is glaring at me at the mo, isn't sitting right and in view of the care and investment, needs sorting out... :)
Soft materials like aluminium and similar alloys dont like to be under unessesary forces, specially
when heat stretching and twisting is involved, as they can and do strip easily.
This is one of the prime reasons that all heads have studs fitted to bolt 'anything in place.
The threads the studs are sitting in (motionless) are perfectly capable of withstanding changes
in state (heat and stretching) as the stud is a one time fitting and seats for good, what they do not like
at all, is to have to take the loading lengthwise AND the binding of the bolt thread as they are tightened up.
The thread on the top of a steel stud will be taking this loading of the nuts and I think it is VERY good
practice to do it this way, what can and often does happen when bolts are used is that the threads
in the head will eventually rip out.
It would, in my opinion anyway :-[ be a very good idea to change the bolts for correct length studs as soon as possible.
Very nice job by the way ;-)up
Peter :)
Might need to copyright this thread, just in case Dellorto or EuroCarbs use it in their installation manual ;-)up ;D ;D ;D
Hope they work for you ;)
Was thinking the same about the bolts for the manifold. I recall on my old 1800 someone had used a bolt to replace a missing stud on the manifold. That side always leaked fuel under the gasket. I replaced it with a new stud and helicoil as there were damaged threads. Cured the leak and it ran better.
Thanks for the comments guys - Glad you have enjoyed reading this - (Didn`t get to make the phone call today, but will do shortly)
Its always great to get feedback on what is being done here - both good and bad. Its important for newbies reading that do not know me to understand that I am writing this build as I go along, not to show how things should be done, but to hopefully show how and why I did things the way I did, and if that means a monumental cock up then so be it - (I`m on a learning curve too). We all have different approaches to the same problem, some work and some do not, and these build threads, to me are as invaluable as the comments that follow.
@Peter,
As always I bow to your superior engineering knowledge, and will replace those bolts with studs as soon as I get a chance ;-)up
Quote@Peter,
As always I bow to your superior engineering knowledge, and will replace those bolts with studs as soon as I get a chance
Heavens :-[ don't be daft, this is expensive stuff thats all, but its best I think to stick to somethings, bolts would be fine
if the heads were not Aluminiumy stuff...
;-)up
Dave,
Very interested re: your height issues, it's this which has preventing me from committing to Dellortos. Once you are sorted appreciate some measurements re: overallmheight from cylinder face and distance from centre of inlet port to outside of filter housing.
Another great thread.
Paul
@Paul
Centre of ports is guesswork !!
So . . . . .
With tape measure on the top of the rocker cover and measuring upwards
From Rocker Cover to Carburetor base is 105mm (Using CSP Short Manifold)
From Rocker Cover to Carburetor Top (including linkages) is 220mm
From Rocker Cover to Air Filter Top is 290mm (Using K&N 63mm Filter)
Hope This helps ;-)up
Quote from: Peter on March 14, 2016, 07:12:36 PM
Quote@Peter,
As always I bow to your superior engineering knowledge, and will replace those bolts with studs as soon as I get a chance
Heavens :-[ don't be daft, this is expensive stuff thats all, but its best I think to stick to somethings, bolts would be fine
if the heads were not Aluminiumy stuff...
;-)up
Peter,
Find me a better expert mate, and I`ll listen to them instead
But until then, if you say studs is best, then studs it is gonna be ;-)up ;-)up ;-)up
I must admit, the studs were very tight to unwind from the head, and I was not over happy when doing this, so you have highlighted a concern I had when putting this together
;-)up
Thanks for your efforts. It does. Much appreciated. Looking,forward to see how she runs .
Paul
@Peter,
If looking for a set of studs, what sort of spec should I be searching for? ???
Whats all this '@' stuff.... :) Twit!
I dont actually know other than there will be thread rolled types or cut, either would
be fine for something like this, as its not holding the wheels on!
Thread rolled would be stronger and have the advantage of being a nicer surface finish
and more suited to the ageing process, stripping wise. Mass production prefers thread
rolling sometimes, either by design or simply due to the speed and waste issues making them.
I will have a look at work if you like as we use a lot of these in various lengths.
Would need the length of threaded areas each end and overall length ?
I put longer studs on mine for some reason Burtons comes to mind but could be wrong
Just down the road from me is my mate Adam who runs A-Jays VW Services, and he said that if I could check the tappets whilst it was cold and get it down to him, then he would show me how to set the carbs up. At the moment, I am running solid lifters in there, but it was a very quick and easy job to check and adjust them. After a few turns of the starter, the engine burst into life with a few pops and bangs and after a minute or two to warm up, I gently trundled down the road scaring just about every old lady I went past with a loud BANG! and into Adams workshop. I was quite amazed how well it drove considering the carbs had literally been bolted on with nothing touched.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016040.jpg)
The linkages were disconnected and then each of the mixture screws was adjusted to an equal setting of one and a half turns, the throttle stop screws were backed off completely and the engine started up. Adam had a simple airflow meter that sat in the top of the venturi and showed how much air was going through. By adjusting the mixture screws and the throttle stop screws, it was not long before all four venturis were giving the same reading. The linkage needed a bit of fettling, as one side was a little long, but by the time it was reconnected, the engine really sounded sweet and smooth. The timing was checked, and the Vacuum confirmed as working correctly, which was a bit of a surprise as nobody thought it would.
An hour and a half later, I was driving what felt like a very different car back home. I had not bolted the air filters back on yet, so needed to get it home to complete the assembly before I take it for a very eager spin.
I guess you have your studs now, I have some but thought I would show something we
do that not all seem to.
The small pip of a diameter on one end is useful as it bottoms out when screwed fully home,
which helps a lot to stop the threads binding when tightened down... ;)
Its a mod that can be done quite easily to studs that don't have this feature...
(http://www.manxmaniac.co.uk/uploadsForInternet/studs.jpg)
Thats clever - not seen that one done before ???
No, I have not got my studs yet, only just measured them
In an ideal world, I would have 4 of these:
M8 stud with 10mm threaded to go into the head, 65mm of shank, and 15mm of threaded the other end for the nuts and washers - 90mm overall
Yes, its something that I haven't seen anywhere else and
is certainly worth having, its busy, but I will try to make four during the week
Peter
Quote from: Peter on March 19, 2016, 05:36:54 PM
Yes, its something that I haven't seen anywhere else and
is certainly worth having, its busy, but I will try to make four during the week
Peter
You are an absolute star ;-)up
Thank you :D
Filter tops bolted on, and I have also connected the crankcase breathers as well. I`m not keen on the breather system going into the top of the filter like this, because I don`t want the crankcase fumes to be fired straight into the venturi, but there is precious little space anywhere else to attach these. I have made sure that the breathers are pointing at the space between the venturi and not directly at them. I have also connected a breather to each side, just to make sure everything is kept even.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016041.jpg)
I took the car for a little blast, and it did highlight a bit of a problem with my linkage. My linkage is exceptionally smooth with no play whatsoever, but that does mean that it didn`t actually return as quickly as I would have hoped. The Alfa Romeo throttle return springs are not quite man enough for the linkage as I have it, so you can see that I have also added a third return spring to the Hex Bar itself, which has made all the difference.
I have often wondered about the way many kits have crank case breathers that route
back into the filter.
On my Beetle the crankcase breathes into a separator area just beneath the oil filler cap.
Any oil mist reforms on the walls and drains down a tube to the rear and towards the ground where it exits,
there is another tube that goes upwards to the air filter box, upwards being the key word, no oil ever
gets there though as it drains down the other exit tube.
Isnt there not another slightly better way to do this on twin carb setups, it all looks a bit iffy thats all and not very well thought out.
Would some nice mods to the generator pedestal be something that could be looked at?
Maybe ;-)up
Quote from: Peter on March 19, 2016, 09:23:38 PM
I have often wondered about the way many kits have crank case breathers that route
back into the filter.
Crankcase breathers usually go to the filters as parts of the emissions - granted not something we are that fussed about, but its something to do with burning the unwanted gasses rather than venting to the atmosphere
Quote from: Peter on March 19, 2016, 09:23:38 PM
Would some nice mods to the generator pedestal be something that could be looked at?
Not on a T25 lump - No ::)
Working round the back of the car has reminded me of another little annoyance I have going on. My oil dipstick is not a great fit, and does not seem to want to stay in place. After a good belt down the road, I often find it sticking out a bit. Not far, probably less than 10mm or so, but enough for me to want to push it back in every time. Found a great cure using an old brake shoe spring.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016042.jpg)
A bit of heatshrink on there just as a visual reminder, else when I check the oil I am going to be equally frustrated that the dipstick is now stuck in the hole.
Hi Dave, glad your up and running again ;-)up I never had any trouble with the dip stick staying fully in with that engine but it does blow out with my new engine when I give it plenty of rev's ;D ;D I have put a little spring on mine also ;-)up
Rob
Dave, I can't remember where I got them from, but I bought some springs that hook under each end of the hex linkage and give a massive boost to the return on the arms.
Have a look around and I'll check my old copies of ultra vw - I think they may have been covered in there.
That would be much appreciated - it could still do with a bit more ;-)up
I'm having trouble the details here.
The spring I use is in the 4th post on here
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7851984 (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7851984)
But I cannot find a link to one for sale.
Maybe
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBER-THROTTLE-RETURN-SPRING-/172138242681?hash=item28143d2279:g:ZnkAAOSwMORW6~JE
:'(
I have said this many times before, sometimes there are just not enough swear words available.
:'(
And I find myself in that position once more.
Today has been a nice sunny day, I have been out with the spanners repairing the trailer tent - I have done all of my chores, and I have some free time to play with the Buggy. As you know, I am still tossing a coin as to whether or not to paint my shell, and whilst staring at it awful hard, I noticed a small blister on one of the side pods. Actually, thats not strictly true, the blister has been there for a few years now, but if I`m going to do any painting, then I need to deal with this and see what is going on.
The blister was about an inch long, and had actually cracked the paint around it. No point being delicate here, the blister needs to be removed, and after a few seconds with a stanley knife, I had a disc in my hand about the size of a 10p. It had come off a little too easily for my liking, and I noticed that there was some mud on the bodywork that had got behind the paint. That should not have happened, and a close inspection of the missing paint patch revealed that the remaining edges were actually sitting proud of the bodywork, not by much, a gnats hair if that, but something was niggling away at me. I stuck the stanley blade into the hole, and managed to slide it behind the paint which now started to come off in great big chunks.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016043.jpg)
I have often said that I am not a painter, and usually when playing with a rattle can, if anything is going to go wrong, I usually get a paint reaction within a few minutes of applying any paint, sand it back and start again. Thats my limit of painting. If the primer goes on and stays on, then I kind of assume that it had actually stuck to the bodywork. Clearly not on this occasion. 10 minutes with the stanley blade, and I have now removed virtually all the paint from my sidepod, with no damage to the pod surface whatsoever.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016044.jpg)
I know a bit more about painting now, than I did back then, so I guess I will now remove everything back down to the bare gelcoat and start over.
Bitter sweet moment really - Not happy this happened, but glad I spotted it before playing with the metalflake.
:(
Bummer Dave but I see you have saved all the old paint to use again?
Would an etch primer help?
Thats what I don`t understand Flags, I used an etch primer followed by a high build primer - nothing stuck :-\
Might just have to stick the old bits in a liquidizer so that I can repaint with the same base colour ;D
When ever I have sprayed I have always started with a primer filler on a well prepared body and never had a problem the orange buggy was sprayed ten years ago now and still looks great.
That is actually quite impressive Dave. A real bummer, but impressive :D
May need heavy dutier keying before putting the high build primer on to get adhesion. Hope the rest is ok but as you say better to find it now.
Spoke to a man that knows and etch won't help, rough key and lots of high build before flatting then top coat.
Hi Dave, etch primer is for metal. It wont etch into plastic.
Plastic adhesion promotor would be first coat, after a very thorough prep and degreasing.
Then you could use primer or high build primer depending on your level of prep. :)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/U-POL-PLASTX-2-ADHESION-PROMOTER-400ml-PLASTIC-REPAIR-upol-BEST-price-/221465284972?hash=item33905c116c:g:AHYAAOSwewJTm2Lf
No point messing about, what has to be done, has to be done, and so I start to attack the side pod in order to remove the layers of paint.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016045.jpg)
I`m quite fortunate to have good arsenal of air tools available, and they made really light work of removing the paint. I used the 6" Sander to remove the bulk of the high build primer, and then a 3" sander to polish up the surface to a nice finish.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016046.jpg)
The paint on the front wheel arch had also come away, but the rear seemed fairly good, so I will stop there. A quick wipe down and hoover of the dust, and I am ready for the next bit.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016047.jpg)
A few passes with a rattle can of ordinary primer and hope that this time it sticks.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016049.jpg)
There will undoubtedly be a few runs in the primer when I go back and look at it tomorrow, but hopefully nothing will have reacted where it joins the existing paint layers. I shall leave it alone now and see how it looks in the morning.
Nice bit of painting Dave and I hope this newly painted panel doesn't turn out so well it makes the rest of the older body colour alongside look a mismatch....
But I did notice that when you stanley knifed the green flakes off you seem to have a yellow buggy trying to get out !
Quote from: Hugh on March 27, 2016, 06:05:16 PM
But I did notice that when you stanley knifed the green flakes off you seem to have a yellow buggy trying to get out !
;D ;D
Quote from: HUDGE BUGGY on March 25, 2016, 05:10:24 PM
Maybe
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEBER-THROTTLE-RETURN-SPRING-/172138242681?hash=item28143d2279:g:ZnkAAOSwMORW6~JE
Cheers Hudge, just looking at that one ;-)up
Quote from: Hugh on March 27, 2016, 06:05:16 PM
I hope this newly painted panel doesn't turn out so well it makes the rest of the older body colour alongside look a mismatch....
Actually Hugh, I have a suspicion that this newly painted panel, painted with the same batch code of paint that I did it with all those years ago may just stand out above the rest. And that is because this time it is no longer going to be a top coat - this time around I have decided that its going to be a base coat.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016050.jpg)
Yep - I am going to go for it (I have a feeling most of you knew I was going to). Those that have seen my number plate light attempt have all given such positive comments. Nobody has laughed at me and a fair few have been lost for words in complete disbelief that I managed to apply flake with a paintbrush, that I am now going to try and flake a side pod. I know it won`t be as good as a professional with a spray gun, but then it won`t cost several grand either. I have a target in my head, and if I have my sums correct, I reckon I should be able to flake my entire car for around £250.
At worst, I`ll be the subject of ridicule, £250 poorer, and I`ll get the air sander out again and start over.
I seem to recall you have an ancient local custom of letting wild ponies nuzzel your drying paint to get the right finish !
Well at £250 you could be having the last (smug) laugh. As long as it's a fairly uniform look at worst it will just be yet another distinctive and unique buggy colour. Added to which anyone viewing from a modest distance or when you are moving surely won't see any subtle variations.
If it turns out as good as http://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php/topic,7580.msg78069.html, it will be a good effort, shame about the colour though " Allegro Green" does make it very special needs ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: HUDGE BUGGY on March 28, 2016, 04:39:18 PMshame about the colour though " Allegro Green" does make it very special needs ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
A bit like the driver then ;D ;D
As some of you know, I have been experimenting with metalflake applied with a paintbrush, and my antics can be seen here:
http://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php/topic,7580.0.html
The sun was shining today, and I thought it about time that my Buggy saw daylight after being stuck in the garage for a few weeks. The initial base layer of flake went on fairly well, and initially, the colour didn`t seem to be a million miles away from the original green, and I was quite happy with how it looked.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016061.jpg)
I went to fetch Lisa, to see what she thought of it, and she stood next to me in silence. In fact, I had just gone very silent too. The sun was hiding behind clouds at this point, and every now and then, it would shine on the car, and when it did, the colour was amazing. We just stood in silence as the Buggy was literally changing colour right before our eyes.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016062.jpg)
Anyone will tell you that flake is notoriously hard to photograph, which is a same, because what you cannot see here is the Golden Holographic Rainbow that was now dancing up and down the panel as the sun hid behind the clouds. We were just speechless.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016063.jpg)
And to think I started out by saying that the colour did not look to far from the original - My God, how wrong was I to say that !!
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016064.jpg)
Time to get it back in the garage for a protective layer.
Very cool ;-)up
From the photos I think that looks ace. Tell everyone you went for two tone.
I think that looks really good...
Do not be to hard on yourself over fnish quality it will look great from the pavement cruising past.
Whilst dusting the Buggy down, I have just been reminded of one of those little irritants that really annoys me. Open ended pipes on Carburetors. I`m as guilty as everyone else in having little bits of pipes with bolts fitted in an attempt to blank off an unused outlet, but these ones on my new Dellortos do not actually do anything at all.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016066.jpg)
They are, however, the same diameter as the rubber end caps on the Beesting antennas as found on VW`s and Vauxhalls, so after a quick scavenge around the workshop, I found some, and they do look much tidier.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016067.jpg)
When I get around to it, I will find some proper screws to fit in place of these pipes, but this will do for now.
Dave those pipes are for Synchronizing the carbs.
If you unscrew them a small amount and attach a multi vacuum gauge you can synchronize all four barrels.
I have a 4 gauge motorcycle balancer which I plan to try sometime. If I remember I will bring it to Stoneleigh if you want to try them while you are there if you are going.
Other products are available and I used to have a set with mercury in the tubes but they don't sell them anymore due to health and safety. You can also get a set with dial gauges.
The usual way to is to take off the filters and put a air flow gauge meter on each barrel one at a time. Only thing is I don't have enough room to get one on top of the carb due to the small gap to the tub and I don't think I would be able to read it anyway. The other advantage is you can see all for barrels at the same time so it will be a lot quicker to do. Eurocarbs even sell them
(http://www.carbtune.co.uk/Images/SSL11411LC.jpg)
Product Description
The New Carbtune Pro – essential for balancing multiple carburettors. Superior resolution to dial type gauges Easily read scale Comes complete with 4 x 5mm and 4 x 6mm ultra high temperature glass filled engineering nylon adapters and rubber hoses. Adapters will suit DHLA & DCOE carburettors and many motorcycle carburettors. Stainless steel columns indicate vacuum No calibration or set-up required High impact plastic casing and scale tubes – no glass Dampers supplied to reduce fluctuations Full instructions
MickyB,
Thanks for clearing that up for me - I was a bit puzzled why 4 non working outlets were there - now I know ;-)up
I`ll get myself one of those balancers ordered up I think, as looks a lot easier than doing one venturi at a time like you mentioned. ;-)up
Looks like the blood pressure monitor my doctor uses.
Whilst much fun and experience were had in flaking the side pod, as many of you will know it didn`t work as planned and I am now resorted to Plan B. Plan B being that Plan A didn`t work. Summer is approaching, and the nights are now warmer and lighter.
So . . . . . . .
As previously shown, the Sidepod in question had a major issue causing the paint to fall off, so as a precaution, I am now going to rip the paint off the other side too and repaint it. I have a crack on the bonnet that needs attention, and a lot of the bodywork could really do with making friends with a few palettes of wet and dry. With so much ahead of me, (and effectively repainting the shell), I`m seriously considering of a mild colour change. It will still be green before anyone says anything.
Before, it was Austin Allegro Green, but I keep seeing these Mazda 2`s belting past, and the green metallic looks really cool. I am also considering the VW Scirocco Viper Green, but the colour doesn`t quite seem to pop like the Mazda to me.
Decisions Decisions :-\
What I have decided to do though, is to eventually paint the inner arches and the "hidden" underside of the panels in black, because its as rough as hell under there and I want to hide it. That leads me to a question for you all . . . .
Is there any form of "textured" paint that I can brush on to gelcoat, that is durable, tough, isn`t a dust trap, and can be attacked with a pressure washer?
Not brushed but Mipa bumper textured paint is what my hard top is painted in.
Hi Dave,
You might remember a while ago I was considering going green and looked at the "Mazda Spirited Green Metallic". It is a lovely colour, but I think I should warn you there is a lot of coats required to make it that colour and depth - if I remember right with base coats, top coats and laquers you are looting at around 10 if not more.
Another colour work considering is the Vauxhall Grasshopper Green used on the newer Corsa
Quote from: Flags on April 21, 2016, 02:25:47 PM
Not brushed but Mipa bumper textured paint is what my hard top is painted in.
I`ll have to have a closer look at that then - Thanks ;-)up
Quote from: Roadrunner on April 21, 2016, 02:28:02 PM
Hi Dave,
You might remember a while ago I was considering going green and looked at the "Mazda Spirited Green Metallic". It is a lovely colour, but I think I should warn you there is a lot of coats required to make it that colour and depth - if I remember right with base coats, top coats and laquers you are looting at around 10 if not more.
Another colour work considering is the Vauxhall Grasshopper Green used on the newer Corsa
I think whatever colour I go for is going to be many layers to make it work - but at least its ordinary paint, and considering what I have just been doing, should be relatively easy to do
;-)up
To many layers of paint you will need an even bigger engine!
Re the black under wings I just used Halfords underseal as the sidepods had too much yellow (yes Hugh, I know, sounds impossible) in the underwing area.
Just masked an edge and brushed it on, looks good and seems pretty resilient
Only thing to watch is the can says dry in 24 hours, it takes a bit longer
Quote from: Doon L001 on April 22, 2016, 09:27:17 AM
Re the black under wings I just used Halfords underseal as the sidepods had too much yellow (yes Hugh, I know, sounds impossible) in the underwing area.
Just masked an edge and brushed it on, looks good and seems pretty resilient
Only thing to watch is the can says dry in 24 hours, it takes a bit longer
Another one to look at - Cheers ;-)up
Dave I can accept a little black can actually help make the remaining yellow look pretty good by constrast - just don't spent too long on Dave's post reading about exotic shades of green in case it's contagious !
The new Audi TT has a new Green looked great when i passed one yesterday.
i did contemplate Green for the buggy (Viper) as my old Sirocco was the same colour, but now that viper green is all over the place. I currently have a Bay window Van in the workshop for a re spray. RAL 1023 Yellow, will need shades on to walk past it 8)
As some of you know, I had a few issues at Stoneleigh with my Throttle linkage jamming open and not returning. I had never been happy with the way the springs operated, and after my return journey, I decided to strip it all down for a much closer inspection.
I am currently in dialogue with Eurocarb, and will let you know how that one pans out - but they know I am far from happy. >:(
The linkage as fitted was indeed silky smooth in its operation, but never seemed to react very quickly. I put this down to the use of Rose Joints instead or conventional bearings, but I figured that as Eurocarb had supplied me this kit as the "premium" version, and assumed that they knew best. I had always been led to believe that Rose Joints were for use with axial and lateral movements, and not rotational and I think I have just been proved right.
I have since learned from Rob at Eurocarb that CSP are actually aware that these Rose Joints are stiff, and its this stiffness that is causing them to be dangerous. Here you can see that they are so stiff that they do not return nor move under their own weight of the heavy end, and this is supposed to allow high speed and rapid shut off for the carb?
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016074.jpg)
And that is the same for both rotational and axial movement
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016075.jpg)
The smooth bar at the end is supposed to slide freely inside the Rose Joint, and I guess that this is to allow for any heat expansion as the cylinders move. So the bar should slide in the joint, and the joint should also be free to rotate. I think I can hear Peters head exploding in the background as he views this one. The sheer gravitational weight of the joint should spin it instantly downwards, and not let it hang like this.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016076.jpg)
Closer inspection shows why the sliding bar is oversized, and that is because the thread has not been completely machined off, and the grooves can still be seen. Using a threaded section as a rotational bearing is just a recipe for disaster, as it will allow dirt and debris to eventually creep in.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016077.jpg)
One of the vertical links felt a bit "gritty" and upon closer inspection, the internal coil, that acts as a bearing retainer can be seen to be very pitted and not of a smooth shape as required for correct operation. 2 out of four of these ball joints were of a similar state. Again, this is just bad quality control.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016078.jpg)
Looking at the right hand end of the hex bar, something tells me that fitted like this with the spring under tension, that it should not be possible to allow it to sit flat on the deck for a photograph. The Rose Joint has also seized in place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016079.jpg)
Closer inspection of the internal bearing surface shows the culprit, as it is badly pitted with a poor surface. This is supposed to be a brand new bearing that has now done 150 miles on my car.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016080.jpg)
I think you will agree that these pictures show a very poor quality product, and virtually every single piece has failed in some form or another. I am more than aware of the consequences that could have happened as a direct result of this had I not managed to bring the vehicle under control.
I think CSP and Eurocarb should both be hanging their heads in shame over this, and I will let know the outcome, because you all know me too well to know that I will not be leaving this here.
>:(
Will you be sorted for germany? There is a bell crank center pull linkage off the DCNFs here and a selection of threaded bar and joints to make up rods, you could borrow that with a wednesday or thursday am fit if you have no confidence in the new stuff
I`m frantically playing with grinding pastes and machinery at the moment to see what I can cobble together - not given up yet :-X
How about a rose joint with a bolt throught it with a nut clamping it firm then use a drill to spin the joint around in the housing whilst applying fine valve grinding paste to the mating surfaces
You been spying on me then ;)
Throttle return is so strong now, it nearly took my fingers ;D
Hoping to get it in my mates garage tomorrow to get it balanced properly :-\
My CSP bell crank joints were similar very tight. WD40 and a spin with a drill improved it.
As some of you know, my trip to IBW was cut short due to yet more carb linkage issues. I had spent ages working on the linkage to get everything moving as smoothly as I could, and I was somewhat speechless after covering around 300 miles to find that my throttle was again stuck fully on, and the emergency stop I was trying to make nearly didn`t happen. After removing the linkage at the A14 Services, I soon determined that I now had a new problem, and this time it was the shaft of the left carb that now felt "gritty" and very rough in its operation. Not great for a factory refurbished unit. We decided that it would be foolish to travel across the continent like this, and rather than wait endless hours for an AA truck, we turned off and headed back down a thankfully quiet motorway.
After limping back home, I opened up my emails to find a very apologetic mail from Eurocarb, with an offer of compensation over the issues I had been having with the linkage, and they were somewhat stunned when I reported that one of their carbs had now also seized up on me. I was offered a full refund on the spot, (but I actually wanted them), so they offered to collect them at their cost and take a look at them for me. Whilst I will openly criticise the rubbish CSP products that they sell, I cannot fault the aftersales service from Eurocarb, especially Rob, because in less than 48 hours after collecting these from me, they were returned, rebuilt with new shaft and bearings, and ready for use.
I phoned today to say that I could do with one of their 4 way carb balancers to set them up properly, and no sooner than I had put the phone down did I receive an email showing that one had been dispatched to me free of charge for my troubles.
A shame it happened ibw weekend but at least customer service is good, they obviously want to protect their good name.
There are just some times where I am bloody annoyed at myself, and today was one of them.
With the Bank Holiday shows out of the way, and the 2016 Calendar so screwed up that there are virtually no shows for the next 6 weeks until N.E.W.S. I thought I would take a look at something that is needing doing, and that is my bodywork. So tonight, I set about stripping the car down.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016082.jpg)
When I pieced this together, every single inch of the main body has been fiberglassed top and bottom, which is why it looks so lumpy and bumpy - I did it in a hurry with little or no skills or patience, and I always knew I would sort it out one day. The sidepods and bonnet were actually in pretty good nick at the time, and I just painted over them. You all saw what happened to the paint on the sidepod though, it fell off.
Well, I had a small crack appearing on the corner of the bonnet and although I do not remember hitting anything, a crack has to be dealt with swiftly before it creeps and gets any worse, and low and behold, its not the body thats cracked, its the paint - just like the side pod.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016083.jpg)
And thats why I`m annoyed with myself, because I trusted that because they looked good at the time, I didn`t scrape away at the surface coat for a closer inspection, and now its come to bite me in the bum. Under the paint I put on is a layer of yuk and a botched repair that has not bonded to the layer underneath, and has delaminated. So, time to get the grinder out and attack this properly, as I should have done right from the start.
Bad luck Dave it does look like a dogs dinner under there. My bodge nature would lash some household emulsion onto the area and hope it sort of stuck, but I know you have a sense of pride.
Can't help noticing you have some sparkly flip flops - the silver colour would look great on a buggy !
Quote from: Hugh on June 01, 2016, 08:21:09 AM
Can't help noticing you have some sparkly flip flops - the silver colour would look great on a buggy !
The bling brigade will all have them by this time tomorrow. ;D ;D
Back when I was playing around with the alternator on my Buggy, I was back and forth to a workshop in Torquay that my mate Bill was renting at the time, and it was part of a Bodyshop owned by John. The other day, I was chatting away with John about the various bodywork issues I was having and picking his brains with regards to obtaining some Mazda green for me, when it transpired that he had a space in his schedule (and his Bodyshop) if I was interested in having a little play to show me how it should be done.
I took the bonnet over to him, to show him how bad the shape was, and how many lumps and bumps were in it - but this did not seem to phase him, and in no time at all, the paint layers were removed and he set about plastering it with filler so that we could reshape it properly.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016086.jpg)
I have always mixed filler in little amounts, and never mixed more than I can use at a time - But John was just going for it and wasn`t messing about - He knew how much he needed, and managed to use it all before it started to go off.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016087.jpg)
Watching John ice my bonnet like a giant cake, I could already see the improvements to the shape, and he carefully explained the lines he was trying to introduce and how they would turn out. It was quite mesmerising to watch.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016089.jpg)
Time to let it set, and see what can be done on my next visit.
8)
??? I thought I'd used a lot of filler!
I went over to see how John was getting on with the bonnet today, and was amazed at the results. Apparently it has taken 3 attempts of filler and sanding to get rid of the lumpy bumpy finish I had managed to achieve, and these pictures really do not do any justice to the shape that he has ended up with. Really pleased with how this is looking.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016091.jpg)
This year, I must confess that the Buggy and I have had a fair few disagreements over its reliability and not being able to get me anywhere without breaking down, and after seeing the stunning job that John is doing with the bonnet, I decided that I would let him have a crack at the rest of it. So I have spent the last few days stripping it down. It needs to remain mobile in the workshop and on wheels, which is why I have left the tub on the chassis, so that John can push it about on his own..
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016096.jpg)
I was in the process of hooking up an A-Frame that Hunter had lent me (Don`t fret H, you will still get your sausages), when a mate of mine drove past in what has to be the longest Recovery Truck I have ever seen and asked if I needed a lift. We have a School opposite, and at 8:45 in the morning you can just imagine the carnage as instead of pushing the Buggy into the road, my mate decided to completely block the road, absolutely laughing his tits off whilst the school run commuters were left fuming. I doubt he would have offered if the road had been quiet.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016097.jpg)
And there it now sits in Johns workshop, awaiting to see what he can create from the mess that I have delivered.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016099.jpg)
I guess I ought to spend some time getting the tow vehicle running now ;)
This is exciting stuff Dave, which shade of Orange are you going for??? ;D
Quote from: Manxstu on June 10, 2016, 07:39:53 AM
which shade of Orange are you going for??? ;D
And it isn`t going to be Yellow either ::)
Seen those little Mazda 2`s belting about with a really nice shade of green?
Well . . . . . . ;)
Quote from: Dave DND on June 09, 2016, 11:41:28 PM
I was in the process of hooking up an A-Frame that Hunter had lent me (Don`t fret H, you will still get your sausages), when a mate of mine drove past in what has to be the longest Recovery Truck I have ever seen and asked if I needed a lift.
Sausages,
SAUSAGES did you all hear that, Dave said Sausages.
I'll be sitting on the edge my seat now in anticipation.......
H :D
Be careful what you wish for H,
I remember the Beers . . . . . . :-X
;D
Sausages.....Saw ages.....Saw a ges.....Saw a G.....Saw a Jeep.....
No it was definitely a greenish buggy !
::)
Great commitment to keeping an old shell going! Must say I'd be pretty tempted to put a new one on there!
Quote from: parmaynu on June 10, 2016, 12:05:41 PM
Great commitment to keeping an old shell going! Must say I'd be pretty tempted to put a new one on there!
Financially, it would make far more sense to buy a new shell than to paint an old one - that argument is well documented and proven.
However . . .
Most of the parts I have, have been made to fit this shell, and I didn`t want the car to end up like Triggers Broom - so I want to retain the old shell if I can and that way it will not only remain a Hustler GT, but its the same body that was rescued from a barn all those years ago. To me that is more important than a brand new tub.
Not an argument that will make sense to many out there though
Absolutely!
He couldn't find a shell in the right shade of yellow ;-)(-;
Do us a favour... Get the bloke that's doing your body work to bag over your air filters to stop the dust getting in there. They clog up real quick with filler dust. My mate found that out a long time ago.couldnt understand why his engine wouldn't run right after doing the body work on his cortina. Filter and carb was full of dust it sucked up when it started.
;-)up ;-)up
Its all being masked and sealed as we speak, but appreciate the heads up
Those bloody carbs will be coming off yet again for a good clean before I even think about starting it up though ;-)up
QuoteGreat commitment to keeping an old shell going! Must say I'd be pretty tempted to put a new one on there!
Heavens, I should say so, sometimes just swapping out the shell for a 'new' one is a massive cop out.
The Hustler is a great bug, and certainly worth the effort of sorting out.
Hopefully all will end up looking really good and be well worth the effort in the end.
Peter
John has certainly been busy over the last few days - I had a peek inside the oven to see the bonnet after its first decent coat of primer, and I have to say that I am mighty impressed with the shape of it. All the lumps and bumps have gone, and it probably looks better now than it did when it first came out of the mold 50 years ago.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016101.jpg)
I am kind of glad I wasn`t around for this bit, as John stripped off a few layers from the car. Nothing to do with seeing all my hard work over the years being reduced to dust, but more because he now seemed less than impressed about having to go this far down due to the crappy job I did of it the first time around.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016104.jpg)
Still, it gave him a chance to prove how good he is. With the shell now effectively naked, a decent skim of filler was applied to bring back some of the lost shapes, although I`m not sure than the sides were ever this flat from day one.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016112.jpg)
It does seem like a lot of filler, but I know that most of it will be removed once the sanding equipment comes out to play.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016116.jpg)
Whilst the filler is setting, John turns his hand to the dash panel.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016121.jpg)
Time to leave I think, before he realizes I that made it from an old bit of drainpipe ::)
Quote from: Dave DND on June 15, 2016, 11:41:02 PM
That's looking awesome Dave, cant wait to see it painted!
It has to be said though that he doesn't look best pleased in this photo!
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016121.jpg)
Lookin verry slick Dave 8)
Yes its WOW. A Trailer Queen in the making ?
That is some filler job, has he got shares in plastic padding ltd ;D
Quote from: snoopy on June 16, 2016, 07:40:22 AM
That is some filler job, has he got shares in plastic padding ltd ;D
Not sure if he has shares, but I think I just bought the Company :-X
Dave,
We won't recognise it without the cellulite. ;-)up
Should improve mile per galleon too being that smooth and slick. 8)
Quote from: Chad on June 16, 2016, 01:19:21 PM
We won't recognise it without the cellulite. ;-)up
Bloomin Cheek ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Chad on June 16, 2016, 01:19:21 PM
Should improve mile per galleon too being that smooth and slick. 8)
That may balance out the 2 tonnes of filler then :D
;D
Have you thought of taking a mould after you are done?
Quote from: Roadrunner on June 16, 2016, 03:03:14 PM
Have you thought of taking a mould after you are done?
You are most welcome to all the bits that didn`t stick to the shell if you wanted to piece them back together ;D
Quote from: Dave DND on June 16, 2016, 03:05:48 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner on June 16, 2016, 03:03:14 PM
Have you thought of taking a mould after you are done?
You are most welcome to all the bits that didn`t stick to the shell if you wanted to piece them back together ;D
My Brother in law has just got into jigsaw making - I'll ask him :P
Bling time soon :D
Are you going to paint the shell yourself?
Quote from: apmaman on June 16, 2016, 10:45:44 PM
Are you going to paint the shell yourself?
Not a chance - I`m leaving this one firmly in Johns hands to work his magic ;-)up
Looking good. Well it's actually looking a bit rough, but you cannot make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
I just hope your mate John doesn't pay you back by going rouge when choosing the paint colour!
Get the paint charts out! 50 shades of Green!
Quote from: Buggybaggy on June 17, 2016, 12:20:14 PM
Looking good. Well it's actually looking a bit rough, but you cannot make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
I just hope your mate John doesn't pay you back by going rouge when choosing the paint colour!
Cheers mate ;-)up
Its coming on very nicely, and he has done a stunning job with the shape.
He has just painted a test piece with the Mazda 2 green and it looks awesome
Quote from: apmaman on June 17, 2016, 12:22:50 PM
Get the paint charts out! 50 shades of Green!
Thats why I wanted it painted properly - its already 50 different shades of green ;D
Ha ha my typo. should have been rogue, but probably worked better with rouge!
Quote from: Buggybaggy on June 17, 2016, 12:28:11 PM
Ha ha my typo. should have been rogue, but probably worked better with rouge!
Oh, John has certainly been "Rouge" at times with this one ;D
It's all in the prep Dave it should look awesome when done 8)
Quote from: Manxrod on June 18, 2016, 08:05:44 AM
It's all in the prep Dave it should look awesome when done 8)
Indeed it is, which is also why I know I am in safe hands.
Every time I have gone down to see how John is getting on, I have seen the Buggy in primer, and then discovered that John has found a few more imperfections to sort out. Half them I cannot even see, but John is somewhat of a perfectionist, and only the best will do.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016129.jpg)
And finally, the Buggy is ready for paint. John is happy with the shape. If the truth be told, I was happy with the shape over a week ago, and am absolutely stunned by the transformation he has made here.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016130.jpg)
There are so many subtle changes, that they could easily go un-noticed - but each one has made such a difference.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016131.jpg)
John has shown me a test piece that he sprayed with Mazda Green, and it looks awesome. He also commented that it was a really nice colour to spray with and covered exceptionally well. I was then unceremoniously told to "Bugger Off" and I was not to come back until the car was painted in green, which would be sometime next week if all went well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016132.jpg)
Something tells me that its going to feel like a very, very, very, very long week
Dave are you going to have a colour co-ordinated green fleet of vehicles or is it only the trailer queen that's green ?
Trailer Queen . . . . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Me? . . . . ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
A couple of points....
1. John has a look of Robbie Williams.
2. He might want to attach an air-line to that spray gun, otherwise it might take longer than a week :P
That is a fantastic colour Dave. There's an MX5 near me in that free , best green I've seen
Today, I just happened to be driving past the workshop when I noticed the door was open and I could not help myself from taking a small peek inside. I was amazed to see that John had been very busy decorating, and there was fresh paint everywhere. Just none on the Buggy.
No, John had decided that a job such as this one deserved not only a deep clean of the workshop, some white paint on the walls and a thorough wash down of all the light fittings. I was very impressed to see him taking this so seriously.
The Buggy had been masked up yet again, and was now sitting on axle stands awaiting something to finally happen.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016138.jpg)
By this time, John really wanted me out of there, and as I could see what was about to happen, I figured that it was probably not a great idea to distract him any more. So reluctantly, I left - but not before spotting this on the side.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016139.jpg)
Sooooooooo Exited :D
Quote from: Dave DND on June 22, 2016, 11:20:51 PM
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016139.jpg)
Ooooooh.... Nice
Early this morning, I was rudely awoken with a phone call that I had eagerly been waiting. The Buggy was now green, and I was allowed to come and see it. I jumped on the bike and rushed over there as quickly as I could, because this finally meant that today was D-Day, and it was imperative that I got over there to take a picture before the paint dried, which would not be long in that very warm spray booth.
Standing there, in all its glory, was my Buggy with around 4 layers of Mazda Green (Code 36A) base coat colour.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016143.jpg)
It takes John around 10 minutes to apply each coat, which is then left to oven bake for around 45 minutes before going over with a tack cloth to remove any loose particles before then applying the next layer. Important that the paint does not dry completely between coats, as this affects the adhesion. Probably a lot more technical than that, but thats most of what I learned from John.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016145.jpg)
I absolutely love this colour. When I first saw a Mazda 2 in this colour, I just knew that one day I would have the Buggy done in it. I did look very carefully at the VW Scirocco, and thanks to my Motor Trade contacts, I had the good fortune to be able to park a VW and a Mazda side by side, and was surprised as to how yellow the Scirocco looked when parked next to a Green Mazda. Its definitely one of the best Green`s around at the moment, and I could not think of a better base colour for what was about to happen next.
And that is was why I had to get there quickly for these green pictures before the base colour dried.
Very cool ;-)up
Looking amazing Dave, I really did consider that colour myself.
So that's the 4 base coats, how many top coats is it?
Difficult one to answer Gordon,
I reckon that if you put a couple of decent top coats on, you would be left with an awesome paint job. The colour is truly stunning and I really was tempted to leave it there. In fact, it was a real wrestle at the time of taking those pictures quite what to do next, because the colour really jumps out at you - its gorgeous.
However . . . . . the reason its a difficult question to answer is because this was the "base colour" and not quite what we ended up with.
:D
Guessing acrylic water based with laquer? Looks good and it will be easier to clean can see why you are happy.
I have to say, that looks utterly amazing, green really is a brilliant colour in all it's shades,
sometimes an unexpected re-vamp makes things so worthwhile in the end ;-)up :) ;)
The bonnet's been transformed ;-)up
Peter
Oh Come on !! You should all know what is coming next . . . . . . ::)
Unlike poor old John, whose face was a complete picture when I handed him a big bag of green sprinkles a few weeks ago. :D
Now, my mate John is a very experienced paint sprayer. His bodywork skills are is truly excellent, as you can see from the transformation of the Buggy in these pictures, but he openly admitted to never having ever played with flake, and was quite looking forward to the opportunity of a bit of experimentation.
After all, How hard could it be? :-\
As it turned out - Very hard. :-X
If you look at the test piece I gave to John a while back, it will illustrate the problems and frustrations.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016148.jpg)
The problem is coverage. Unlike paint that leaves its mark wherever you point the gun, the flake is mixed in with clear laquer. There is no such thing as mixing too little, as after the first coat, I promise you will add more, but add too much and the gun will clog up leaving splatters everywhere. You also have to use balls rattling around in the spray gun to keep the mixture from clogging, and I won`t even go into how the pressure can cause the flake to bounce off when it is applied. My problem would have been paint runs, disastrous in this instance, but John was far too experienced for that to have even been an issue. The most he could mix was around 25g of flake in 600ml of laquer, but it still gave a really sparse result. This picture shows the number plate light after seven coats, and you can understand why most give up long before this amount has gone on because you can still clearly see that Mazda Green.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016149.jpg)
However, the sole purpose of a test piece, is experimentation, so John carried on to see what it would take to get a decent coverage. At 22 coats, this was what he had done, and pretty much lost the will to live in doing so. Now you will better understand some of the moody pictures and comments flying about, as John found out very quickly that spraying with flake is not as easy as he thought, it does not conform to the rules and it was proving to be a very steep learning curve for him also.
This is why I was often told to (ahem) "go away" :-X
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016151.jpg)
We were both trawling the interweb, making phone calls and watching various YouTube clips in order to glean some knowledge, and John soon found out that there was a better type of laquer (Candy Base) that would allow him to add thinner layers of flake, because the stuff he was using was ending up very thick indeed.
So what happened on D-Day then?
Well, John went above and beyond - because he was in his booth spraying the shell for 12 hours straight
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016160.jpg)
So, a long winded answer to Gordon`s question, is that we ended up with 30 coats.
4x Base Green + 22x Candy Flake + 2x Laquered Flake + 2x of High Build Laquer over the top for good measure
I cannot print what my reaction was, so I will sum it up as "Oh Gosh !" :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016161.jpg)
John admits to being completely traumatized by this, and even when sleeping can see nothing but green sparkles ;D
Me? I cannot wait, as it should be delivered back home shortly - and then I can see it in the sunlight
8)
Hi Dave the buggy is looking great when I spayed mine I mixed the mini flake with the clear can't remember the exact ratio but I think it was about 22 tea spoons of flake added to the paint pot I had a larger spray nozzle to allow the flake to pass through and reduced the pressure to about half it was easy to get right on a test panel and after two coats the bacecoat was completely covered then three coats of clear and another three coats of clear twelve hours later however it took me forever to flat it back with wet & dry I guess that yours does not have as much orange peel as mine so will be finished a lot sooner it's all very interesting but I don't think that I want to do another one any time soon.
What size flake was that Manxrod?
Sounds like a 200 Micron Mini Flake from your description, which I think I read you can add a lot more as it doesn`t clog so much. We used the larger 400 Micron flake and just about got it through a standard 1.4 nozzle, again, at a reduced pressure. Using the specialist Candy Clear Base instead of mixing with laquer made all the difference though, and something we learned as we went along. Not cheap though at around £50 a litre (trade price) and we used 8 cans of the stuff.
There is some orange peel, although its really not that bad, and something I am going to flat back myself over time as the finish is more than acceptable as it stands. What is really strange is the physical "feel" of it, because the top 2 coats John used were a very high build laquer, put on very heavily, which has resulted in the car having a very solid "plastic" feel to it, almost like touching a resin surface.
I can fully appreciate why you would not want to do another though ;-)up
Come on Dave !! You've got just under 3 weeks to put it all back together. It looks great in the photo's but I want to see it in the flesh with the sunlight bouncing off that metlflake. Great job bet you're well chuffed
Yes Dave it was the mini flake it is a learning curve the sad thing is if I did another it would be a lot better the advantage of adding a lot of flake is that in a way you are spraying it dry if that makes sense and the flake lays on the surface at all angles and will sparkle from all directions .
Arrived back home :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016165.jpg)
Might take a while to put it all back together again though
Shinie shinie!
that looks good, now for reassembly without scratching it.
Looks great I look forward to seeing it in the flesh ;-)up
Looking good ;-)up
Looks amazing!!! ;-)up ;-)up ;-)up
That is looking good Dave, hope you have been just as busy on the pan?
Pan was given a decent layer of Hammerite last year, and is in good condition ;-)up
Chromo ;D ;D 8)
BLING! very shiny 8)
Love it, Dave DND rapidly becoming the bling master ;-)up
Looks great Dave, looking forward to seeing it in the flesh!! 8)
I have spent most of this weekend trying to find all the pieces of the Buggy that were randomly strewn across the garage in an attempt to rebuild it. The carpets all went in perfectly, and luckily, all the holes that had to be redrilled could easily be located due to the indentations for the side window clips and rear luggage straps.
I am adding a few things this time around, so progress is not as fast as I would like it to be - but I really do not want to rush it this time.
I will also be adding the A-Frame mountings and Brake cables for my new Towing frame, and whilst doing that, I also plan to splice a trailer socket into the front of the car, so that the Buggy lights can also double up and act as a trailer when being towed. There are a few other bits and pieces, but I`ll cover those as and when I get around to them.
One thing I did do, once the front had been deep cleaned, was to paint the inner arches in black, and I think it really helps to make the green bodywork stand out. Upon recommendation, I used MIPA Bumper Black 1K paint, that is just wonderful to apply with a brush, and gives a really durable Matt finish as it dries.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016170.jpg)
I am also suffering from a major distraction at the moment, and its my bonnet. I have had to hide it behind a wall in the yard, because everybody passing by our house (and its a very busy road) is stopping and staring at it in complete bewilderment. It has been photographed so many times by neighbours and passers by, that I have lost track. As many of you will know, taking pictures of metal flake is virtually impossible, and this car is now so sparkly, that whilst this picture gives a rough idea of its colour, it doesn`t even come close to showing the holgraphic effect that now runs up and down it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016171.jpg)
And thats also the problem at the moment, because I cannot help myself from standing and staring at it either
8)
Quote from: Dave DND on July 17, 2016, 11:21:06 PM
And thats also the problem at the moment, because I cannot help myself from standing and staring at it either
Hope you've got a bit more used to it before it's back on the road, you probably don't want to be doing that from behind the wheel....
Today you must have caused some temperary blindness being the "hottest day of the year" 8) 8)
looking really lovely...... will it / you be making an appearance at Swanage...?
Liz and I will certainly be at Swanage this year for sure
Don`t know about the Buggy yet, as quite a few new parts have yet to arrive, and then there is its MOT
I`ll let you know next Friday afternoon ;)
Managed to sort out one of those things that has been niggling me for many years now, and that was the front body supports.
Back in the day, when I first built the Buggy, with little or no knowledge, I didn`t realize just how important the front body support was, and for those of you who do not know what I am on about, I am talking about the metal brackets screwed into the tops of the front beam and bolted to hold the front of the fiberglass shell in place just in front of the petrol tank.
Without them, I discovered that in the extreme heat, and with a full tank of petrol, that the front of the bodyshell would droop slightly, just enough for the steering joints to bash against the base of the tank. On several occasions I could be seen trying to put a new clearance dent in the base of the tank in order for me to turn the steering wheel, and got irritated that it would only do it on hot sunny days.
My fix, until now, was two stainless legs bolted to the bumper that went upwards to the front of the tank. It was as effective as it was cosmetically awful, and every time I have had the bonnet off, I have clean forgotten all about them.
Not this time though. A quick natter with my mate Bill, and he quickly produced a pair of heavy duty brackets from bits out of the scrap bin.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016172.jpg)
They fit perfectly, and the front looks so much better now that those awful legs have been removed.
8)
Today saw some work on my fuel tank that just made my blood boil. I have repeatedly said that putting tank sealant in was the worst thing I have ever done, and today it really came round to bite me hard. For those who do not know what I am talking about, then let me explain.
When I purchased my new tank from Flatlands (a good few years back) they advised that because it had been welded that I should use some sealant in there to seal up any small holes that may be as a result of the welding. They sold me an expensive tin of sealant that was supposed to be Ethanol resistant and its application was fairly simple. Mix it up, pour it in the tank, and then roll the tank about in all directions so that every surface was coated. Seemed good at the time, and I fell for this, hook line and sinker.
A few years back I noticed white bits floating in the tank, and it became very apparent that the internal surface had broken down and had now filled my tank with loads of debris, and I have been pulling it out ever since.
Well today, I moved the tank, and heard it go "thud" and it was obvious that there was something inside there moving about. After using a bent piece of wire, I managed to recover a few more large sections of "ethanol resistant" lining, that has the appearance and feel of rubber, but that was not my issue here. If you look down the filler neck, you will see a very large piece of something that should not be there.
When the tank was initially coated and laid to rest (to set) then any excess is going to run to the bottom of the tank where it will set. I had not envisaged that this would then set into a lump nearly half an inch thick that was the entire shape of the internal base of the tank. The ethanol in the fuel had now attacked this causing this large lump to now float about in the tank. It took me hours with a pair of pliers and a hook to break it up and remove it a piece at a time.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016174.jpg)
Seriously - do not use this material to seal the tank. If you suspect your tank is going to leak, then buy another tank.
The only good thing I can take from todays antics is that I can probably now get another half gallon into my tank judging by the amount of crap that came out.
>:(
Dave I wonder if any small pieces of this sealant have periodically got lodged in your fuel line and choked, or at least restricted, the flow causing poor running - or no running ?
The bits could certainly cause the problems you mention, and I try my best not to let it happen.
I change the filters (multiple) fairly frequently, and I never let the tank level get too low either ;-)up
With the amount of work you have had on the shell done and the amount of work your doing on the bibs and bob, I would have just thought sod it and bought a new tank Dave ;-)(-;
I`m coming close to that one Steve, but sods law says that the filler would end up being in a slightly different location, so I`ll keep sloshing this one out for now
Strange stuff your fuel resistance sealer, the stuff I used came in a small tin and looked like silver paint it just about coated the sides and bottom in a thin coat swishing it around.
Quote from: snoopy on July 26, 2016, 04:35:16 PM
Strange stuff your fuel resistance sealer, the stuff I used came in a small tin and looked like silver paint it just about coated the sides and bottom in a thin coat swishing it around.
Same sort of thing, but mine was a 2 part one with a catalyst
Over the years, I have experimented with many different types of Petrol Tank Breather methods with varying degrees of success. As I am about to plumb the tank back in, I have been racking my brains to try and come up with a yet another solution.
For those unawares of why we need a breather system, its actually very simple to explain. When the fuel is pumped out of your petrol tank, the space that it occupied needs to be replaced with air. If not, then the lack of air can cause a vacuum to form inside the tank, this in turn causes the pump to work overtime because it cannot pull the fuel against the negative pressure caused by the vacuum, and the long and short of it is that you can end up with fuel starvation. The idea then, is to replace that fuel with air, allowing the tank to "Breathe" and this is often done by a small one way valve that will allow air in, but not allow fuel to spill out. In practice, many of our fuel systems are put together with so many leaks that this seldom happens - and its only when you do things properly that this problem may rear its ugly head.
A few years ago, when basking in the summer sunshine, I had the opposite problem in that the intense heat of the sunshine had caused my tank to get so hot that the pressure had built up inside to such a point that when I removed the fuel cap, it flew out of my hand followed by what can only be described as a fuel volcano that went absolutely everywhere. Thank god no one was smoking nearby, else I would have lost the Buggy, but I did lose the paintwork on the bonnet that year as the fuel attacked it. One of the other side effects was that the fuel pressure was now so high, that the fuel shut off valves in the carbs were being forced open, with the petrol now running down the venturi and into the crankcase. Far from ideal.
The problem with the conventional breather system then is that it often relies on one way valves to compensate for vacuum and not pressure, so what is the solution then? An open pipe would solve the problem allowing air to move in both directions, but I have a slight concern that you may find your fuel simply evaporating on a hot sunny day instead. Conventionally, most of the breather pipes are mounted high up towards the rear of the tank, to prevent any fuel from sloshing about under heavy braking, but you have to be careful here too, because you could end up losing some fuel under hard acceleration instead - and if you route that pipe in the wrong place, then you could end up with it running out quite fast through a process called siphonage.
I have experimented with so called "Vented" fuel caps, but whilst they address the vacuum issue brilliantly, I have yet to see one with a 2 way valve to combat pressure build up under temperature. I am aware that some of you even went so far as to drill a small hole in the top of the cap to act as a breather, but all this did was to allow water ingress during our monsoon months.
Looking at the world of Rallycross, they had what appeared to be a very clever two way inline valve that would allow free movement of air in either direction, but the moment that any liquid was detected the valve would simply shut and prevent any fuel from spilling out (should the car become upside down). These have to be mounted vertically to work properly, and whilst they may function perfectly on a car that is shaken about and then stripped down at the end of the day, I found that when fitted to a daily driver on smooth roads, the potential for failure was actually quite great. I had one of these from Demon Tweeks. It wasn`t cheap at around £65, and it failed on me, along with my vented fuel cap on Volcano day as described above. What had happened was that the pipe going into the valve had allowed a small amount of fuel to become stuck in the pipe on the entrance to the valve, which had been subsequently been detected by the valve, which had now shut. Because the fuel had nowhere else to go, it just sat there, and the valve remained firmly shut whilst allowing the pressure to build up very nicely. A bit of a design flaw there methinks?
Off Road Motorcycles use a similar 2 way valve for breathing, and have a very simple method of shutting the fuel off when the bike goes over by having a small ball bearing to block the pipe. Very simple, very effective, and only costs a couple of quid to purchase. They have to be fitted above the fuel cap though, which does put it inside the cabin area, and the downside of this is a very strong smell of fuel vapour on a hot summers day.
The best system I have seen to date, and by far the most simplest, is the one that Peter came up with, and that is to use a windscreen washer jet as the valve. The hole is big enough to allow air in and out, and yet small enough not to allow water or fuel to pass in either direction. If you have a look at the bonnet on Peters Buggy, you will see a 3rd nipple fitted, and that is his fuel vent. I have used this system for the past few years myself, and if you look back at pictures of my bonnet, the twin washer jets mounted in the middle, were actually my fuel vents. They worked really well.
So . . . If that system was so good, then why am I looking to change it this time around?
Well, you know by now that I like to experiment with different things on my Buggy (both good and bad), but if the truth be told, this time around, I just don`t want to put any unnecessary holes in my sparkly new bonnet - hence back to the drawing board and this is what I came up with.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016175.jpg)
Yeah, ok, its a bit overkill, but here is my thinking:
I have used two one way valves connected via a T-Piece. The valve on the left will allow air to be drawn in via the pipe that exits under the tank, and this is marginally lower than the T-Piece so that if any escaped fuel should reside in the pipe, then it will be drawn back into the tank under Vacuum conditions.
The valve on the right allows air to escape when the tank is under pressure, and the pipe goes up and over the tank to give it some height, therefore preventing any siphonage and then exits under the floorpan to prevent any bad smells in the cabin.
Because I have used 2 valves in this way, then under ambient pressure, both valves will be in a closed position and that should then eliminate evaporation.
Time will tell :-\
Quote from: Dave DND on July 27, 2016, 11:03:14 PM
I have experimented with so called "Vented" fuel caps, but whilst they address the vacuum issue brilliantly, I have yet to see one with a 2 way valve to combat pressure build up under temperature. I am aware that some of you even went so far as to drill a small hole in the top of the cap to act as a breather, but all this did was to allow water ingress during our monsoon months.
Got to say, the vented cap on mine has worked really well all these years regardless of temperature. Never know an issue whatsoever. ;-)up
I know, Vented caps are usually all that is needed ;-)up
But wasn`t until my tank got really really really hot that I discovered that 99.9% of the vented caps out there only have one way valves in them. To be fair, with the temperatures we usually have in this country the pressure build up would probably go un-noticed. I`m very wary of it myself after having the cap fly out of my hands as it was released.
Wow.... of course mine being a two cap system may help????? will show you more at Swanage. (Oh and my tank might be a little more vented around the neck too... will explain that one there too) ;-)up
Whilst the rear wheels are off and access is better, I thought I would do a quick job that you guys told me to do a while back and that is to convert the very long monkey metal bolts holding the carb manifolds on, to studs instead.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016176.jpg)
There . . . That should keep a few of you happy ;-)up
Quote from: AndyRobinson on July 28, 2016, 10:51:13 AM
Wow.... of course mine being a two cap system may help????? will show you more at Swanage. (Oh and my tank might be a little more vented around the neck too... will explain that one there too) ;-)up
Raspberry suffers badly with over pressure on hot days to the extent that it pushed fuel past the plastic connector on the fuel gauge sender.
Professor Brian Cox explained why anything red gets hotter than anything in other colours also why the sea looks blue but I digress.
My easy solution was to drill 2 small holes in the inner side of the standard Beetle cap and fit 2 1 way valves pointing in each direction. As the Doon bonnet is an opener you don't really want lots of pipe work that looks like a mad women's knitting.
I'll show you at Swanage.
That's better, MUCH better ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016176.jpg)
I`ve been doing a lot to the electrics whilst its all exposed, and have wired in a few extra lighting circuits along with a trailer socket on the front so that I can use the Buggy lights when it is being towed.
The black case you can see contains my iPod and is mounted to the cross bar using a waterproof phone holder for a mountain bike. The iPod inside is actually a smashed up one that I picked up dirt cheap on ebay. It had been dropped, the front casing is smashed, the LCD is smashed and the buttons on the front are missing, however, as it is both charged and controlled by my stereo, I`m not bothered by the broken bits and consider the 80Gb ipod to have been a bargain at £7.50 including postage !!
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016177.jpg)
Nearly ready to put the bonnet back on. :D
Time to get my newly refurbished rear wheels fitted.
Like many of you, I`m using standard rear drums on mine, with a PCD of 4x130mm (4 studs within a 130mm radius). Apologies for mentioning this bit again, but its very important, and I have just learned of yet another local Air Cooled VW that has lost a wheel, so felt it was worth mentioning again. The original VW wheels were held on with bolts with either a Radius or Taper head on them, depending on the style of wheels you had. Many of the period aftermarket Alloy Wheels went even further and used a flat washer instead, or depending on brand, a tapered washer. Now one of the biggest causes of wheel nuts coming loose, or even wheels falling off is because many people still do not appreciate the differences in the Wheel Bolt Head styles, and that you must never mix and match them. If, for instance, you put a Radius Head Bolt onto a Taper Head wheel, it will still appear to tighten up correctly, but a few miles down the road, the wheel bolt will have unwound itself and fallen out, often with disastrous consequences.
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Junk/nuts.jpg)
With the choice of available wide wheels being fairly limited in a 4x130 pattern, I have been using Chevy Adapter plates that attach onto the drums with bolts, and give me a five stud Chevy / Jaguar pattern which opened up my choices of wheels. When using convertors such as these, it is also commonplace for the bolt size to also mimic the converted type too, and in this case the thread size is 7/16" so that along with the wheels, the Chevy nuts are also used.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201596.jpg)
There is nothing wrong with using adapters, and they are perfectly safe. The only reason I am messing about here is because a while back I acquired a very rare set of matching rear wheels in 4x130, and I want to change them over. As M14x1.5 wheel bolts with tapered washers no longer exist (I knew that when I had the fronts custom made) I have decided to do things properly this time around and convert over to rear studs, but even this has quite a few pitfalls if you are not careful. If you thought it was as simple as buying some rear studs and fitting them, then think again.
Wheel bolts come in various lengths, and my own requirement here was that I needed a bolt that protruded from the drum by around 30mm. The thickness of the drum was 10mm, so a 40mm stud was needed with a thread size of M14 x 1.5mm pitch. This size is readily available, but you have to be careful as they are not all the same. The problem stems from the uncut section on the shank itself, which is there to prevent the studs from winding themselves through the drum and out the other side. As you insert the stud, and wind it in, when you reach the smooth section, it starts to tighten up. Most modern 40mm studs are known as "20/20" as they have 20mm of thread either side of the blank bit as can be seen here, and these are what everyone is having problems with.
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Junk/stud2020.jpg)
Modern drums are made from much thicker material around the bolt holes, anywhere from 15~20mm, but if you screw that length into an old Beetle drum, chances are it will stick so far through the other side that it will foul on the brake shoes and cylinders, which is why you always hear of people having to cut them down to the right length. But there is also another major problem, and its the actual width of the uncut section, it is simply too wide. We know it prevents the stud from going through the drum, but it also has the effect of preventing the nuts from tightening up against the wheel too. Often, the wheel nuts will be as tight as they can be, but the wheels are free to rock loosely on the studs, as the nut has tightened against the uncut section instead of clamping hard against the wheel.
The solution is to use a different style stud. In my case, still a 40mm one, but divided into 30/10 with a much narrower uncut band. These ones were readily available from VW Heritage for the Type 2 (Part No:AC601SS26), and because only 10mm goes into the drum, it should not foul anything behind it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015171.jpg)
Although optional, I applied a small amount of Threadlock to these before tightening them up. The only niggle I had here with the Heritage studs is that they used a weird size of Allen drive, and its not one usually found in your socket set. Closest I could find was either 7/32AF or 5.5mm. For those of you converting from bolts to studs, you will also notice how easy it is to refit a wheel and line up the holes.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016178.jpg)
I managed to obtain the correct size wheel nuts from Graystons http://www.grayston.biz/wheelnutmenu.htm although you may have to go through a local trade supplier as they do not like dealing directly with the general public. I needed a set of M14x1.5 nuts with Wolfrace tapered washers with Radius heads to suit. This is what they sent me.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2015172.jpg)
The tyres were swapped over to the new wheels, and balanced using just about every weight available in the County and then fitted along with a new set of 80mm centre caps that I found on eBay. A little tip I have found when fitting the centre caps is to wrap a layer of insulating tape around the edge where it fits against the wheel, as it not only holds it in place rather well, but also prevents them from sticking too much when you want to remove them.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016179.jpg)
Quite a transformation, and doesn`t quite look like my old Ratty Buggy any more.
Must remember to check the wheel nuts in 50 miles or so to make sure that they are still tight.
Looking good there, the journey tithe shiny side is complete😎
Thanks mate ;-)up
Lots more shiny bits to come yet though :D
Dave
They look great and thanks for the explanation ...... you have inspired me to crack on a do something with my ones that are still sat at the back of the garage :'(
And very pleased you have joined the shiny side :D :D :D :D :D
Looks more and more like a show car with every picture
Quote from: Krug on July 29, 2016, 01:57:15 PM
And very pleased you have joined the shiny side :D :D :D :D :D
Judas DaveDND................ in the nicest possible way! The dark side (read scruffy/dirty side) will never forget this traitory!
Quote from: Buggybaggy on July 29, 2016, 10:33:00 PM
Judas DaveDND................ in the nicest possible way! The dark side (read scruffy/dirty side) will never forget this traitory!
Don`t worry guys, the first trip out will be a muddy field, so that it looks like my car again ;D
Besides . . . .
I will need to get it very dirty, so that I can strip it down and restore it again in a few years time ::)
;D
Quote from: manxmad on July 29, 2016, 05:47:26 PM
Looks more and more like a show car with every picture
Don`t worry, I am still me and that will never happen ;)
I hope :o
Dave we do need people like you to show us how to turn a less than perfect assembly of old often neglected and damaged parts into a eye catching, prize worthy and reliable vehicle.
So now you have the looks can you keep off a recovery truck for a year ?!
Quote from: Hugh on August 01, 2016, 08:19:30 AM
So now you have the looks can you keep off a recovery truck for a year ?!
Only if I leave it in the garage ::)
Besides, I think Dave C has already done a block booking of them in his quest to ride each one ;)
They may even show that on TV ::)
;D
Whilst the bonnet is off, my mind has been thinking about washer jets and what to use this time around.
There are many naff plastic jets about, but if you look at anything with a bit of quality to it, or made from metal, you will undoubtedly hit the same problem that we all do - they are all very short because they are designed to go through a metal panel. I remember the struggle I had with the thickness of my fiberglass bonnet, and that was before John doubled that with a skim of filler.
As luck would have it, I found myself under the dash of an E-Type Jaguar a while back, and couldn`t help but notice just how long the washer jets were - they were perfect and at around £15 for a pair from the bay of E - not drastically expensive either, given their pedigree.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016180.jpg)
It has taken me a while to pluck up the courage to fit them though, as for some strange reason, I could not bring myself to drill any holes.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016181.jpg)
Time to drill the rest of the holes in the bonnet now and get the filler cap secured back in place
Over the years, my bonnet has been on and off quite a few times and time is now beginning to take its toll on the short piece of fuel pipe that connects the top of the tank to the filler neck. Until now, I have used the rubberised / material pipe with the heavy metal wire that is spirally wrapped around the outside. It has always been a pain to get a jubilee clip to sit on, and has caused me to run up the national debt with elastoplast as a result.
I have had a look at some of the Race cars, and they seem to use a Reinforced Silicone Hose that has a Flouro liner to prevent it from being attacked by any liquids. The biggest problem I have with this is that the 51mm Internal Diameter pipe I want is sold by the meter, and £88 + vat + delivery is somewhat stupid when all I need is just under 3 inches.
I did find a guy selling a short bend on eBay though, which was still somewhat ridiculous at just over £45, and what you see is what I have left after chopping off the short bit I needed.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016182.jpg)
If anyone is contemplating using this sort of pipe, let me know before you go and purchase any ;)
Finally, the parts seem to be arriving and some progress can be made bolting it all back together again.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016184.jpg)
I`m really glad I decided to paint the inner arches, as it really does give a great contrast to the bodywork.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016186.jpg)
This evening has been quite productive and its certainly starting to look like a Buggy again
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016187.jpg)
It has been a bit strange working on it when the sun is out and it is all sparkly, as it just feels like working on someone elses car - but these shots taken at around 9pm on a nice warm summer evening has changed the colour back to a more familiar one, and it is now starting to feel like "my" Buggy again.
:D
What did you use to paint under the arches ,
Quote from: manxmad on August 04, 2016, 11:30:39 PM
What did you use to paint under the arches ,
I used "MIPA Bumper Paint" and applied it with a paintbrush. Its a fairly thick paint with very good covereage and is is really nice to apply. It has a satin black finish to it that is slightly textured, but best of all, it is as tough as old boots when it dries.
(http://www.mipa-paints.com/fileadmin/product/gb/product/prodinfo/images/Autolacke/bumper_paint.gif)
Found it on eBay ;-)up
Dave that really is the definition of a head turner.
You are going to have such a massive grin every time you get behind the steering wheel and parade/drive about.
Can you spray the tennis ball a closer shade of green or could it be black to merge in ?
Thanks Hugh
I agree though, I do need to replace that tennis ball as it is looking a little tired now. Need to find a nice bright green one to replace it, but it has to be a bright tennis ball as it drives dogs nuts when I am parked at the shows
;D
Well if you really want to attract the dogs I say good luck to you as they are capable of weeing on your wheels !
Quote from: Hugh on August 05, 2016, 09:24:05 AM
Well if you really want to attract the dogs I say good luck to you as they are capable of weeing on your wheels !
Actually, I found the opposite happened - the dogs are so interested in the ball that they tug hard on the lead, thus making the owner more aware of what their dog is doing - unlike those too busy on their phones to notice that the dog is tarnishing the alloys.
;)
It's looking great Dave, Won't be too long before you have it back on the road.
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh561/merscury/s-l1600_zpsujdurysb.jpg) (http://s1252.photobucket.com/user/merscury/media/s-l1600_zpsujdurysb.jpg.html)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252424838333?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=551277497233&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Usually I go with yellow tennis balls, (yeah, I know dogs are colour blind) but I have to say those green ones look rather nice
;-)up
Whilst normally I'd be the first to say 'yellow' for anything on a buggy I do think those balls look like they 'have your name on them'.
Why dont you go for a proper cover from the bay of e or from a trailer shop and spray it.
It would look a bit more of a finish to it all...IMHO ;)
Quote from: Steve on August 05, 2016, 03:18:31 PM
Why dont you go for a proper cover from the bay of e or from a trailer shop and spray it.
It would look a bit more of a finish to it all...IMHO ;)
Tennis ball is there for a reason Steve - have a read a few replies back ^^^
;)
Quote from: Dave DND on August 05, 2016, 03:24:04 PM
Quote from: Steve on August 05, 2016, 03:18:31 PM
Why dont you go for a proper cover from the bay of e or from a trailer shop and spray it.
It would look a bit more of a finish to it all...IMHO ;)
Tennis ball is there for a reason Steve - have a read a few replies back ^^^
;)
Just a few pages back...my arse ;D its on page 15 ;D ;D
Its 8 replies back too ::)
Looking nice !!
This is looking really nice Dave, can't wait to see it a club night!! ;-)up
Now that I have a semi decent paint job, I wanted to try and protect some of the more vulnerable edges from damage, such as where the roof rubs, the zips rattle against the body and general scuff marks from clambering in, I decided to apply a few patches of Clear Detailing film from E-Tech.
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Junk/etech.jpg)
This self adhesive film is very similar to the screen protector stuff you get for phones and tablets, except that if you apply it properly (with soapy water) then you do not get all those bubbles underneath.
is that the same stuff that these guys use?
https://youtu.be/VV7poOAEVKo
If so very impressive stuff!
It seems that every time I look at this Buggy, or take a photo, the colour is completely different. :-\
Anyway, with the Buggy now 99% complete, I took it over for its MOT, where I am proud to say that it passed. I did have a few issues though, and it still runs like an absolute pig - banging, coughing, spluttering, backfiring, you name it, this does it - but at least I can now test drive it on the road and hopefully cure it soon, because at the moment, its pretty much undriveable.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016197.jpg)
The observant amongst you will have noticed that the headlight trims have not been fitted. I usually go to the MOT with these removed so that I can give a quick tweak of the alignment with the machine in place - but this time, I hadn`t bothered fitting them as the Buggy is due a visit from the opticians tomorrow to see what can be done with his eyes.
It looks great and well done on the mot just in time for some good weather, guessing you have carb problems again you have a few days until Chad and George arrive.
Looks very nice shinny and smooth.
How will I recognise you ;D
Looking very nice.
Hope you get running for our trip. ;-)up
Well, the Buggy had a visit with the opticians today, and now has a fresh pair of eyes.
I have been looking for a replacement set of headlights for a while now, as the Angel Eye conversion I did a while back is starting to deteriorate and discolour with age. I have been looking at full LED conversions, and finally found a set on the Landrover Defender websites that seemed to tick the boxes, and had an added bonus of being both DOT approved and "E" marked.
The full LED conversions do away with conventional bulbs, and high beam and low beam are achieved by a series of High Power Cree LED`s behind some high power projector lens, which give a significantly brighter output even though they are only around 10Watts each - (Good news for those of you running a dynamo for charging). The headlight bowl is of a similar shape with the exception that the rear of the reflector is actually a large metal heatsink. They are sealed units, and the websites claim that they can still operate if fully immersed in water. Connection is made via the same 3 prong H4 style connector and this ensures that they really are a plug and play option.
You do need to be careful when shopping about though. Many of the Chinebay have some very dubious beam patterns, and a lot of the single ones advertised are actually for motorcycles, which mean that they have a flat beam output pattern without that little kick up to the side. There are many website comparison tests to be found, and some have some stunning long range performance, whilst some, like these ones are heavily criticized for not being much better than stock. Like all things you get what you pay for, and whilst these are not the cheapest around, at £180 for the pair, they were pretty close.
In reality (unlike modern daily drivers) our cars do not go fast enough to warrant great big searchlights with mile long beam patterns, and if they performed better than the stock ones, then that was a bonus. What swayed these ones for me was the fact that they had the full "HALO" present, and that with a bit of fiddling, I reckoned that I could get them to do a few other things too.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016198.jpg)
The white "HALO" on the outside is designed for later vehicles that have them on all the time as Daylight Running Lights (DRL) which is not something I particularly agree with nor wanted to have, so I wired them in as sidelights instead. I once got pulled over in a group of bikes and singled out as I was the only one that had my lights on, whereas the rest of the pack had turned them off. So, whilst I would always ride with lights on, there are occasions where I would like to be able to turn them off.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016199.jpg)
I did encounter an unforeseen problem though. Whilst the High and low beam are plug and play, the HALO is operated via an external module. The single module served both lights, and because they were designed to be used as DRL`s, it meant that the module would always be powered. This was problematic, because I wanted both lights to be independent of each other. After many hours head scratching, and removing the "sealed resin" inside of the module, I managed to work out what was going on inside. A quick raid of my electronic parts bin for a few components, a redesign of the module, and I now have independent operation.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016200.jpg)
I bet you are now asking yourself why I would actually want one HALO on and not the other? Well, these particular lights have another little party trick, and that is a Dual Colour HALO, that can double up as an indicator. This function only works out of the box when both HALOs are running, and has been difficult to get an Orange Flash without a DRL appearing the other side due to the communal module. But, I managed to do it in the end. Now, when the indicator is selected, the white HALO fades out, flashes Orange and when finished, the White HALO fades back in again. If the HALOs are switched off, then the light now just flashes as normal.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016201.jpg)
When I looked into these, there were two colours available, and because I thought that the chrome coated plastic surfaces looked a little cheesy, I decided to go for the Black version instead. It has however, left me with a bit of a dilemma though, as I am not sure whether to keep the outer bezels chrome, or also change them to black to match.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016202.jpg)
I now have enough shiny bits and black bits on the car that either colour would really suit it - just not sure which I prefer :-\
I like the chrome, awesome conversion though and really brings the front of your buggy to life
Flash git.. Looks cool 8)
They look great, just need to get driving it now
Looks fantastic Dave.... keep the chrome bezels as it allows the brightwork to flow from the bumper, lights, to the windowscreen surround and roll bar etc
A top job there and useful you knew somebody who is switched on when it comes to electrickery jiggery pokery stuff. A one off buggy light job ;-)up
I'd need to see a comparison between the chrome and black to really decide. But as it stands I'd have to agree to chrome on the lamps
Dave,
Great job, unique. Chrome for me .
Paul
They look awesome ;-)up
They look really cool, do like them ;-)up
Over the last few months, I have messed about with lost of things in an attempt to cure this rough running engine, and I have decided to back to absolute basics and work through it methodically. So, the first place to start I guess is the engine block itself, or more importantly, the valve train. Its possible that if the vales are not adjusted correctly, then popping and banging could indeed occur. My problem here is that I am bloody hopeless at adjusting valves and have never yet managed to get it right.
Earlier this year, following everyones advice at the N.E.C. I bought myself one of the Gunson Tappet adjusters, which is supposed to make valve adjustment quick and easy.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016203.jpg)
The theory behind it is sound for sure. You adjust one tappet as normal, and then rotate the outer part of this tool to calibrate it, and then by a series of clicks on a ratchet, the rest of the tappets are easily and quickly adjusted to be exactly the same.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016204.jpg)
It was certainly quicker and easier to go through them all with this tool, and my conclusion at the end of it all is that I still cannot adjust tappets, but at least this tool only took ten minutes to work that out compared with the usual hour swearing at the engine. Would I recommend this tool if you were a competent mechanic? Most definitely !! Did it work for me? No, I`m still crap at adjusting tappets.
:'(
OK then . . . Plan B:
Some of the T25 engines had self adjusting hydraulic tappets fitted, and there is much debate over which is best - Hydraulic or solid lifters. The biggest disadvantage for us with Buggys, is that the tappets can drain their oil if left parked up for a while, making the engines quite noisy and rattly when they are first started, but they do quickly quieten down as oil pressure comes in to play. I know that my engine originally had hydraulics, but were changed to solids for increased performance when Farmer Rob owned it. I have also learned that not all Type4/25 engines can run hydraulics either, as there was a 1700 variant fitted to the Bay Window that did not have the correct oil galleries for the tappets to operate.
Seeing as I still cannot adjust Tappets, I have decided "sod it" and to revert back to hydraulics, because at the end of the day, its one less thing I have to worry about. VW Heritage supplied a set of tappets and pushrod seals, and Farmer Rob sent over a set of longer 262mm pushrods that were also need for the conversion.
It is very easy to replace them. The rocker arms are removed, along with the pushrods, and this allows you to pop the pushrod tubes out through the front of the cylinder head. With the lifters now exposed, they withdraw very easy with a magnet. In fact it was all so easy to do, I didn`t have time to grab the camera.
Before you install the new tappets though, they do need to be bled with oil to remove all of the air, and this can make the initial start up much easier. Looking round on the net, I found many different approaches to this, most of which look horrifically messy. I did find a very easy and unconventional way to do it though, and that was by taking them apart, and its not as daunting as you might think.
A side view of a Hydraulic tappet showing the small oil hole that is used to pressurize them in situ.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016205.jpg)
And this is the end that the pushrod sits in. I dismantled these on a little tray with a bit of rag in, as we will be playing with oil in a bit.
The first thing to do is remove the small circlip at the end, it comes out fairly easily.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016206.jpg)
Once that is out, remove the two plungers - they should also slide out very easily.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016207.jpg)
Before we add any oil, have a quick look inside at the big spring and make sure it is sitting centrally in its recess.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016208.jpg)
Then add a few drops of clean engine oil until the spring is completely covered.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016209.jpg)
Next, refit the larger of the two plungers. It probably won`t go any further in than the picture shows, and this is due to the oil that we have just added in the chamber behind it. If you look in the middle of the plunger, you will spot the top of a small ball bearing in a hole.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016210.jpg)
The next stage requires a bit of delicate brute force as we now need to expel all the air from the chamber. You need to depress the ball bearing downwards with enough force that the plunger starts to move downwards but not so hard that you dislodge the ball bearing. I can guarantee that at least one of these will go "TWANG" and the ball bearing along with its holder will push through. Do not panic if it does, the ball bearing sits on a little spring inside a cup, which is clipped to the underside of the plunger. If you have got this far, then it really is not rocket science to work out how to put it back together again.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016211.jpg)
When the top of the plunger passes that little oil hole on the side, you need to insert something to hold the plunger in place. Here I used a spike tool, although a nail will probably work just as well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016212.jpg)
Very important not to pick the tappet up, nor move it, as whilst the excess oil is now running down the sides we do not want any escaping from the chamber. Drop in the top plunger and refit the circlip.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016213.jpg)
Once the circlip is in place, you can pull out the spike - and thats it, they are now bled and ready for use.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016214.jpg)
Once they are refitted back in the holes, (not forgetting a splodge of cam-lube on the ends if they are new) the tubes and pushrods can be put back in place. Always use new O-Rings on the tubes, because this is a VW after all, and they are known to leak from here. The valve settings could not be easier. With the engine rotated in the correct position for adjustment, turn the valve adjusters so that they just touch the face of the tappet, and then wind them in by 2 full turns. Lock the nut, and thats it - never touch them again.
As a result of fitting these, and getting the adjustments correct, my engine block now sounds very different and feels a lot smoother.
The downside is that I can now rule out incorrect valve adjustment as the cause of my problems, as the popping and banging is still there.
>:(
Whilst messing about, I spotted a little hole in the Vaccuum line. I`m usually pretty careful with stuff like this, but its right above one of the Carb balance outlets, so its entirely possible that I could have caught it with a spanner at some point. Could this introduce extra air into the system and cause the banging and popping noises?
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016215.jpg)
Nope - replaced the pipe and has made no difference whatsoever.
What do you mean by banging and popping? Is it all the time, just on over run when?
If it is backfiring or fuel exploding in the exhaust then it has to be overfuelling and/or not burning properly and/or air getting into the exhaust
Sounds like you might need your carb balancer back, if you do then PM me quick and I will get it in the post Monday, miss that and it will be a week as I will be away.
It fires up on the button, ticks over and idles just fine - try and accelerate, even really slowly, and the exhaust sounds like it is going to explode, with quite a few chuffs back through the carbs too. I haven`t got is fast enough to hear what it does on the over-run.
I have driven cars on three cylinders, even two, and very used to how misfiring sounds, but this is so severe, it really frightens you into doing anything because it just sounds so loud and so wrong.
Don`t worry about about sending the balancer back quickly mate, I have another here I can use if need be, but to be honest, I am a long way from that point at the moment. Are you doing any of the Pier Pressure legs? If so, that may be small enough for a hump / dump around the country. Failing that, I`m sure we will catch up soon somewhere else.
With the valves sorted, next on the list is fuel and ignition.
This is where diagnosis becomes problematical, because unlike trying to fathom out why something will not start, in this instance, I do have fuel, and I do have a spark.
As I understand electrics more, I`ll have a play here first. Now, if I had something breaking down, such as rotor arm or distributor cap, spark plugs or leads, then I would expect the engine to shake violently as sound as though it were firing on three or less cylinders. But this is not the case, as mine actually sounds as if it is running on five,with an extra firing sequence thrown in for good measure.
Although I have a Vacuum distributor fitted, I always have a spare Bosch 009 to hand, fitted with electronic ignition, that can be a godsend when trying to eliminate problem engines. It took but a matter of minutes to fit it, and block off the vacuum.
Nope - still exactly the same, and to be honest, it kind of rules out anything on the ignition system.
Can't be certain but after the elimination of ignition and things my thoughts would turn
to a blockage in the carb...
The rubber pipe, could it be possible that the hole used to contain a tiny piece of
rubber that has since been sucked inside and is now blocking things up...
An airline into the take off tube might shift it, maybe :(
Peter
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016215.jpg)
Time to inspect the fuel system then.
So far, I have been less than impressed by the 2 pieces of Dellorto junk that Eurocarb have sent me, but one of the nice features of these carbs is the ease in which you can remove and inspect the jets. Now I am fully aware that my tank is not the cleanest, never has been - but I have so many in line filters in place that I am often surprised that any fuel manages to get through. I was very surprised though to see that I had blockages on all four jets - all of the small holes were blocked and around half of the next size up were blocked.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016013.jpg)
This just didn`t seem right - I was prepared for a blockage, but not to this extent. Rater than just clear the blockage, it was also important to know what it was made of, and hence where it had come from, and this made me very annoyed. In fact, if you heard a very loud roar this afternoon and wondered WTF ? It was me. You see, the blockage inside my jets were made of brass, and looked remarkably like bits of swarf that Eurocarb had left in there when they supposedly refurbished these carbs. Inspecting the jets under a microscope revealed even more. If you imagine mechanically punching a hole in a piece of metal, where it hasn`t quite gone to plan, and you end up with a disc that is hanging by a small bit on its circumference, well that is how some of the larger jet holes looked. The quality here is just disgusting.
Out with the small tools, into the ultrasonic bath, and rather than being as good as new, they were now what I deemed as acceptable.
Trouble is, when I put them back into the carbs, it made absolutely no difference whatsoever - still the banging and popping.
But that was a good thing, because having that much blockage can never be a good thing, and I figured that if the blockage I had found had not made any difference, then there must still be another blockage causing the problem.
Rather than strip the carbs down any further, I found a quicker way to prove / disprove the theory, and here you can see my quick lash up of a pair of Weber 34 ICT`s - its not pretty under there, with all the pipes in the wrong places and the wrong lengths, but it was enough for me to press the starter button to see what would happen this time.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016216.jpg)
The result is best expressed as
DAMN YOU - EUROCARB
I took it for a quick spin around the block, it was very heavy traffic, and it felt like the carbs had just been thrown on with no settings or balancing being done, and in the hour I was driving, not once did it backfire or pop.
Bloody Dellorto`s >:(
Actually, that is unfair, I know the Dells are a good carb, its just the idiots that put them together, filled them with swarf, didn`t test them, had them back for repair and returned them in a worse state than when they went away, and call themselves experts.
I have lost all faith in Eurocarb, their Customer Service may be friendly, but their technicians are obviously incompetent. >:(
This time around, I am going to send them to an expert that I trust, someone who I know will get to the bottom of things and hopefully get them to perform as Mr Dellorto had intended.
Farmer Rob - You have incoming ;-)up
I'm glad you have found the issue!! ;-)up
It is worrying when some supposed experts 'fix' things! >:( >:( Hence why I try to do absolutely everything myself!
Won't be long till you are back on the road?
Blimey!
I hope you do have a chat with whoever has control of this refurb stuff...
Somehow all this 'selling things' now, is way too easy for them!
Peter
One thing I will add is that I would be very concerned that the jets themselves had been
through some sort of 'refurbish' attempt. And my first direct question would be for an explanation
of why they have been re drilled, a refurb or 'anyfurb' should use new ones, nobody should attempt to
modify jets as that's just absurd!
Your description of a disc hanging from the edge of a hole inside is that of the drill
not cutting clean when it broke through, the little 'disc is a classic sign.
All in all, yet another f**k up from a supplier. It's just unreal!
Peter
I totally agree with you Peter, but my communications with Eurocarb are at an end, because this is what would happen.
If I phoned them, I would get a very pleasant person on the other end of the phone that would listen and agree with my problems. They would offer to do whatever I wanted and would even pick the stuff up at their cost. This person would be so nice on the phone, that despite how annoyed I was, it would just be impossible to shout at them, because on the face of it, they were doing everything I wanted them to.
But to what end?
There is no point sending these back (yet again), because I do not trust that they will return in a better, let alone fixed condition.
I am hearing very similar stories across a few forums now of people with carbs being returned that have not been thoroughly cleaned out after various machining processes and this is appalling, give the four figure price tag that is often applied. This seems to be their policy and procedure, and they are unlikely to change for a lone customer or two ranting down the phone. I do hope that they read this though (across the several forums I am on) and realize that I actually have quite a following in the Automotive Industry, and to pee off the person that sponsors and hosts a number of Vehicle Enthusiast forums will be viewed over time as a huge PR disaster.
No, my advice for anyone wanting to deal with them, is when you get your goods from them, strip them down carefully and thoroughly clean and inspect every item very carefully. Get a magnifying glass and inspect every single hole in the jets. Find someone with an airline and blow through all the galleries, making sure everything is scrupulously clean and free from debris BEFORE you even think about fitting it.
My immediate concern with my own pair is knowing that they are full of swarf, I am hesitant about putting an airline anywhere near them as I do not know which way to blow - knowing my luck with these, I would probably end up ramming the swarf further up a hole than blowing it clear.
Hence why I am sending them to a real expert, Farmer Rob
Dave not knocking Rob but have a word with gower and lee ltd they did a twin choke weber for me about 6 years ago came back like new fitted it a minor tweek to set up and untouched since after thousands of miles which made a change from previous years of intermittent running rough.
I would give them a highly recommended star.
Do you have any contact details for them Keith ?
I do try and take a lot of pictures as I am going along (you must know that by now) and I have just blown up one of the pictures I took of those jets when they first arrived with me, because I wish I had inspected them as closely then as I am now.
Have a look - what do you see?
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/jet.jpg)
Looking at the top jet. The small hole (4th one along) is completely blocked by a bit of brass swarf. The holes at the lower edge of the bottom jet, numbers 2 and 6 have some swarf still attached on the top edge that is just waiting to drop off. Generally, the holes are fairly roughly cut with no care taken at all.
And Eurocarb were happy to send these out as brand new and ready for use,
No wonder I have never got these carbs to run as they should.
>:(
Gosh Dave I work to low standards but even I would hope to get more clean drilling and finished surfaces to each of these holes, especially for a precision part of the carb. Also I would have visually looked through each hole and ensured it was clear and smooth before using the piece myself let alone charging someone else for my skills/services.
But you obviously need to clean through every channel and pathway from this point to the cylinder to now insure none of the swarf is lodged elsewhere.
Things can only get better...
01923 247300 gowerandlee.co.uk
Those jets are diabolical Dave, look like they were made by untrained children plucked straight from a rice paddy and to say they have already been back to the supplier once. I know where I won't be buying any carb related items from !!!!
Dont really know what to say, dont be despondent though, there are several others out there,
try googling Weber as a company...
It shouldnt be this way and is yet another thing someone has to deal with. Those jets arnt new
they have been attacked someone in a shed somewhere far away I spect, the countersinking on the outside is off centre
and the holes on the right side have been deburred by hand, you can tell that by the wound out and misaligned chamfer's
on the edge of the hole.
Does Weber exist anymore... I think it does and there maybe some sensible people in this listing...
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=weber%20carb%20company
I hope you get some answers as this is all becoming epidemic now and soon there wont be anyone left who's honest and can actually do something
Peter
I`m still undecided about the colour of these headlight bezels.
Thanks for the kind comments about how good the lights look, and most of the replies seem to think I should stick with the Chrome, however, with some black tape around the lens, they really take on a different appearance and I am still not sure
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016218.jpg)
:-\
Chrome for me, the black just doesn't look right (IMHO) and you ought to know by now you cant have too much shiny
Out with the ultra sharp drills today, as I have to tackle a job I really have been trying to put off doing.
I need to drill the holes for the roof studs. Thankfully, I can still locate the original locations by looking underneath, but to say I am nervous about drilling holes in my shell is an understatement. I am using the conventional "Lift The Dot" fasteners, but this time I am not going to the conventional self tapping ones, as I have had two of those ripped out over the years, leaving a big hole behind. I am instead using extra long threaded stainless ones as used in the Marine Industry.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016219.jpg)
I have also fitted a thin washer underneath each stud, so that the paintwork is not damaged when they are periodically tightened. You can just about see the clear protective film I have also applied in this area to stop the roof from rubbing on the paintwork too.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016220.jpg)
Everything lined up, and the roof fits perfectly.
Phew !! And breath out
;-)up
It will be interesting to see how the film works under the hood with abrasion, I have seen it on cars for stone chip protection.
When I needed some bits for an ICT34 I rebuilt that nobody seemed to have anywhere (even empi who knew the bits I was after but wouldn't supply them), these guys below came up trumps..
http://webcon.co.uk/
Basically after about a month from my initial enquiry to them about some plugs I got an email out of the blue saying that had located some.. I went over to see them and was very impressed with their set up..that said I have also received excellent counter service from Eurocarb and am surprised at the state of those jets given all their claims about the dangers of buying substandard copy parts from elsewhere.
I wanted a set of lights for the front of the car to match the ones over the engine, and had a play with some Ultra Bright 5050 Green SMD LEDS that I made into a light bar. The tie wraps are there to hold them in place whilst the epoxy cures.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016222.jpg)
Fitted under the bonnet, now illuminates the front
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016221.jpg)
Need to do some sides now ;-)up
I think you have caught some sort of viral bling infection off somebody.
;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Dave DND on August 12, 2016, 04:41:52 PM
Over the last few months, I have messed about with lost of things in an attempt to cure this rough running engine, and I have decided to back to absolute basics and work through it methodically. So, the first place to start I guess is the engine block itself, or more importantly, the valve train. Its possible that if the vales are not adjusted correctly, then popping and banging could indeed occur. My problem here is that I am bloody hopeless at adjusting valves and have never yet managed to get it right.
Earlier this year, following everyones advice at the N.E.C. I bought myself one of the Gunson Tappet adjusters, which is supposed to make valve adjustment quick and easy.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016203.jpg)
The theory behind it is sound for sure. You adjust one tappet as normal, and then rotate the outer part of this tool to calibrate it, and then by a series of clicks on a ratchet, the rest of the tappets are easily and quickly adjusted to be exactly the same.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016204.jpg)
It was certainly quicker and easier to go through them all with this tool, and my conclusion at the end of it all is that I still cannot adjust tappets, but at least this tool only took ten minutes to work that out compared with the usual hour swearing at the engine. Would I recommend this tool if you were a competent mechanic? Most definitely !! Did it work for me? No, I`m still crap at adjusting tappets.
:'(
OK then . . . Plan B:
Some of the T25 engines had self adjusting hydraulic tappets fitted, and there is much debate over which is best - Hydraulic or solid lifters. The biggest disadvantage for us with Buggys, is that the tappets can drain their oil if left parked up for a while, making the engines quite noisy and rattly when they are first started, but they do quickly quieten down as oil pressure comes in to play. I know that my engine originally had hydraulics, but were changed to solids for increased performance when Farmer Rob owned it. I have also learned that not all Type4/25 engines can run hydraulics either, as there was a 1700 variant fitted to the Bay Window that did not have the correct oil galleries for the tappets to operate.
Seeing as I still cannot adjust Tappets, I have decided "sod it" and to revert back to hydraulics, because at the end of the day, its one less thing I have to worry about. VW Heritage supplied a set of tappets and pushrod seals, and Farmer Rob sent over a set of longer 262mm pushrods that were also need for the conversion.
It is very easy to replace them. The rocker arms are removed, along with the pushrods, and this allows you to pop the pushrod tubes out through the front of the cylinder head. With the lifters now exposed, they withdraw very easy with a magnet. In fact it was all so easy to do, I didn`t have time to grab the camera.
Before you install the new tappets though, they do need to be bled with oil to remove all of the air, and this can make the initial start up much easier. Looking round on the net, I found many different approaches to this, most of which look horrifically messy. I did find a very easy and unconventional way to do it though, and that was by taking them apart, and its not as daunting as you might think.
A side view of a Hydraulic tappet showing the small oil hole that is used to pressurize them in situ.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016205.jpg)
And this is the end that the pushrod sits in. I dismantled these on a little tray with a bit of rag in, as we will be playing with oil in a bit.
The first thing to do is remove the small circlip at the end, it comes out fairly easily.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016206.jpg)
Once that is out, remove the two plungers - they should also slide out very easily.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016207.jpg)
Before we add any oil, have a quick look inside at the big spring and make sure it is sitting centrally in its recess.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016208.jpg)
Then add a few drops of clean engine oil until the spring is completely covered.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016209.jpg)
Next, refit the larger of the two plungers. It probably won`t go any further in than the picture shows, and this is due to the oil that we have just added in the chamber behind it. If you look in the middle of the plunger, you will spot the top of a small ball bearing in a hole.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016210.jpg)
The next stage requires a bit of delicate brute force as we now need to expel all the air from the chamber. You need to depress the ball bearing downwards with enough force that the plunger starts to move downwards but not so hard that you dislodge the ball bearing. I can guarantee that at least one of these will go "TWANG" and the ball bearing along with its holder will push through. Do not panic if it does, the ball bearing sits on a little spring inside a cup, which is clipped to the underside of the plunger. If you have got this far, then it really is not rocket science to work out how to put it back together again.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016211.jpg)
When the top of the plunger passes that little oil hole on the side, you need to insert something to hold the plunger in place. Here I used a spike tool, although a nail will probably work just as well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016212.jpg)
Very important not to pick the tappet up, nor move it, as whilst the excess oil is now running down the sides we do not want any escaping from the chamber. Drop in the top plunger and refit the circlip.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016213.jpg)
Once the circlip is in place, you can pull out the spike - and thats it, they are now bled and ready for use.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016214.jpg)
Once they are refitted back in the holes, (not forgetting a splodge of cam-lube on the ends if they are new) the tubes and pushrods can be put back in place. Always use new O-Rings on the tubes, because this is a VW after all, and they are known to leak from here. The valve settings could not be easier. With the engine rotated in the correct position for adjustment, turn the valve adjusters so that they just touch the face of the tappet, and then wind them in by 2 full turns. Lock the nut, and thats it - never touch them again.
As a result of fitting these, and getting the adjustments correct, my engine block now sounds very different and feels a lot smoother.
The downside is that I can now rule out incorrect valve adjustment as the cause of my problems, as the popping and banging is still there.
>:(
Dave,
What cam is in there as you shouldn't mix the two?
So if it's a hydraulic why did it have manual tappets?
Or if it's manual you shouldn't be fitting hydraulic tappets?
As far as I am aware it was a standard cam in there, and Farmer Rob converted to solids when he had the engine.
;)
The hydraulic cams have shallower rear cam lobes apparently to let oil fill the follower also the push rods are 9mm shorter and solid ally with steel ends.
There is a difference in rocker shafts no spring clips but thick spacer washers. Never played with vw aircooled hydraulic lifters in all the years I have been messing.
Found a good bit of info on the this morning but I have never swapped followers onto a used cam.
Quote from: snoopy on August 15, 2016, 01:35:09 PM
The hydraulic cams have shallower rear cam lobes apparently to let oil fill the follower also the push rods are 9mm shorter and solid ally with steel ends.
There is a difference in rocker shafts no spring clips but thick spacer washers. Never played with vw aircooled hydraulic lifters in all the years I have been messing.
Found a good bit of info on the this morning but I have never swapped followers onto a used cam.
The 262mm Hydraulic pushrods are are single piece, its the longer 271mm ones for solid lifters that are 2 piece with steel ends ;)
Agreed its not ideal putting new lifters on a worn cam, but valve adjustment is such an issue for me, that it was just an easier road to go down.
Perhaps we should give you a valve setting lesson, even the hydraulics need checking occassionally.
Quote from: snoopy on August 15, 2016, 05:29:49 PM
Perhaps we should give you a valve setting lesson, even the hydraulics need checking occassionally.
:o :o :o :o :o WHAT ! :o :o :o :o :o
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
As Snoopy say's, with the hydraulic lifters; you still need to set the tappets but not as often. The CU and CJ camshafts are the same even though one has solid lifters and one has hydraulic lifters. You can fit solid lifters to the hydraulic cases but not hydraulic lifters to solid lifter cases. You can use either set of rockers with standard cams but with upgraded cams you need the solid spacers type and not the spring spacer type.
Used lifters and camshafts should really be kept matched up in their respective positions but the great thing with type 4 engines is that the lifters can be taken out with only removing the rockers, push rods and push rod tubes ;-)up
Rob
With the car being in bits for most of this summer, I really wanted to get at least one trip out before the weather turned, especially as I had a new paint job that I was desperate to show off. I was determined to get the car ready for the Southern leg of the tour, especially as it was passing through my home town of Paignton. With everything back together and running, I headed off to Swanage in the August sunshine.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2016223.jpg)
I still had the Weber carbs on there, that had not been set up yet, so I knew that it was to be a fairly rough journey. The hydraulic tappets had eliminated the "rattle" I had, but it did highlight another older issue, that knock from the engine. A few years back when driving back from N.E.W.S. in the floods, I took on a lot of water that resulted in a loss of oil pressure on the motorway and some internal oil galleries that had emulsified as a result. The engine obviously suffered some damage from this, and has always had a slight knock from the bottom end. I have done around 1000 miles like this, and it was often difficult to hear the severity of the knock over the noise of the rattling valve train. By the time I reached Weymouth, the bottom end was knocking quite nicely, and by the time I reached home it felt as though something was about to come through the side of the block.
Bugger. :'(
I have since managed to pick up another bottom end from Farmer Rob (Thanks Mate ;-)up ) and will set about a major engine rebuild in due course, but for the time being, the Buggy is now sitting in the garage, in shame, as the summer is now over.
Tough one Dave and you need to keep an eye on that dog heading for your rear tyre !
But you can still trailer your buggy to events to show it off.....
Quote from: Hugh But you can still trailer your buggy to events to show it off.....
/quote]
Someone slap that man.
Don`t worry Flags, I`ll slap him . . . . .
Me . . . A Trailer Queen . . . ::)
Can`t even use the AA card these days as Dave C has pre-booked all the trucks :-X
;D :-*
I needed the AA on Thursday evening here in Herefordshire and it took an hour and three quarters - I now realise they were busy around Dave C in Brum.
Quote from: davydoff on July 07, 2013, 12:59:42 PM
Quote from: Dave DND on July 02, 2013, 01:40:02 PM
.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/201312.jpg)
dave ,just looking at yr super tidy wiring. By comparison, ... Mine is a right mess ::)
Dave,
great build thread, can i ask a question. i notice you have an aero fuel filler, i want to do the same but i'm struggling to understand how you can fix it and get the bonnet off and also get your hands in to fix it all with the bonnet on. if that makes sense
how did you do yours?
can you explain in idiots speak please ;)
cheers
Tidy wiring is easy with loads of cable ties ;-)up
Quote from: Dave DND on August 01, 2016, 08:11:32 AM
Quote from: manxmad on July 29, 2016, 05:47:26 PM
Looks more and more like a show car with every picture
Don`t worry, I am still me and that will never happen ;)
I hope :o
. Thanks dave fantastic detailed info on adapters and wheel nuts. Great photos except every time I see a picture of your electrical wizardry it makes me want to pull out my Italian pasta birds nest and start again :-[
Another way of tidying cable is too use spiral wrap and P clamps, lets you cheat if one is too long you can lose the loop
Quote from: Doon L001 on November 24, 2016, 02:45:59 PM
Another way of tidying cable is too use spiral wrap and P clamps, lets you cheat if one is too long you can lose the loop
Also means you can add a few wires without having to replace a few thousand cable ties too ::)
Quote from: Dave DND on November 24, 2016, 02:48:55 PM
Quote from: Doon L001 on November 24, 2016, 02:45:59 PM
Another way of tidying cable is too use spiral wrap and P clamps, lets you cheat if one is too long you can lose the loop
Also means you can add a few wires without having to replace a few thousand cable ties too ::)
Hope you arent suggesting I didnt get it right first time (I didnt by the way)
Quote from: Doon L001 on November 24, 2016, 02:50:16 PM
Quote from: Dave DND on November 24, 2016, 02:48:55 PM
Quote from: Doon L001 on November 24, 2016, 02:45:59 PM
Another way of tidying cable is too use spiral wrap and P clamps, lets you cheat if one is too long you can lose the loop
Also means you can add a few wires without having to replace a few thousand cable ties too ::)
Hope you arent suggesting I didnt get it right first time (I didnt by the way)
No, I have just added some LED lighting to mine and now wish I had bought some shares in cable tie production :'(
I have finally managed to get some free time in the garage and thought I would set about my engine rebuild. The bottom end I got from Farmer Rob last summer was indeed in very good condition, but for the sake of a few nuts an bolts, I thought I would tear it down anyway for a proper look inside. Annoyingly, I have lost the pictures I took as I went along so you now see it here on my engine cradle reassembled.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017004.jpg)
I have been deliberating for a while which direction to go with this, and have decided to build myself a completely standard block, but to get it as close to a new spec engine as I can for reliability and longevity. The knackered engine currently in the Buggy needs so much work, that I may well go a bit mad with it and build something a bit lively, but for the moment, I just want something that will not let me down this year.
Great Dave. The more buggys that have working reliable engines the better for people like me and Dave C.....
I assume you are fitting a toe bar.
I`m in 2 minds whether to refit the tow bar as the trailer tent has now been sold - I guess it depends on what I will be doing with the Exhaust, as have a few new plans for that too.
Come on, you need somewhere to store the old tennis ball !
Quote from: Hugh on January 14, 2017, 05:49:10 PM
Come on, you need somewhere to store the old tennis ball !
;D You are right - Ok, it gets refitted ;-)up
My plans were to re-use the old cylinder heads on the new engine, but to give them a quick once over before I did.
I removed the left hand head and was confronted with a very sooty and carbonised chamber, which is hardly surprising really, given how bad my carbs have been running and that I had just thrown on another set without even setting them up, just to get me on the road. Still, all that carbon has got to be removed and cleaned up. In the old days, it was known as De-Coking, but most youngsters (and Halfords staff) have never heard of that term.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017005.jpg)
There are various chemicals you can use to remove the carbon deposits, but I used a small Dremel with a wire brush attachment to clean it all up, being careful not to go too heavy around the edges where the cylinder head gasket ring would go. Unlike Beetle heads, these T25 ones are not prone to cracks, but its still worth having a close inspection just in case.
One of the jobs I do want to do though is to check the valve seats, especially as its such a simple job to do. First of all, the valves need to be removed using a spring compressor. That can be problem number one, as most of the compressors on the market these days do not seem to have the right shape end on them for the VW heads. Luckily, I have an old school tool that has an angled head on it allowing it to be used to compress a spring into a recessed hole, whereas most of the modern ones just foul the sides of the head.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017006.jpg)
The tool is nothing more than a big "G-Clamp" and the other end is pushing against the centre of the valve inside the chamber. Tightening it up allows us to compress the valve springs so that the 2 split collets that retain the valve can then be removed. Once these have been removed, the clamp can be undone and the valve should just drop out.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017007.jpg)
The valve seats are critical for maintaining compression and the smooth running of the engine. I had no reason to suspect that there was anything untoward here, but I thought that I should re lap the valve seats whilst I had a chance to. What you are doing here is ensuring that there is a really good seal when the valve is closed and this is done by grinding the valve and seat together to make sure that they are a perfect fit. There are various grades of grinding compounds available, but as I was just giving them a light going over, I opted for a fine paste.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017008.jpg)
The valve seat and underside of the valve edges are lightly smeared with grinding paste and you then use your lapping tool to rotate the valve. Its worth buying a new lapping tool before you start, even if you have several in the back of the garage somewhere, as the rubber suckers on the end do perish and you only find this out once you start. Yeah, I found out the hard way too, hence the new tool shown in the picture. The idea is to spin the valve one way and then the other and if you think along the lines of rubbing two sticks of wood together to make a fire, you get the idea of what is involved. Lift the valve every few goes just to allow the paste to settle, and then start over. When you first start it sounds really gritty, and within a few moments the sound smooths out.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017009.jpg)
It doesn`t take long to do each one, and the engine will certainly benefit from it. You can see the ring on the valve and the valve seat that has now been lapped, and they look clean and of uniform shape. Unlike the face of one of the combustion chambers, where you can see from the indentations that something has been rattling about in there at some point in its life, and probably a nut or washer that previously got dropped down the inlet manifold during reassembly. The top of the piston is dent free though, so its obviously something that happened when the head was on a previous engine.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017010.jpg)
Head reassembled, cylinder head gaskets in place, and looks a damned sight better than when I started. I have also given the head a coating of engine paint because the cooling fins can get very oxidised and furry behind the tinware, and the coating of paint does seem to slow this process down a bit which in theory should mean they will be a little more efficient.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017011.jpg)
I just hope the other side goes as smoothly
Great explanation there and hopefully when all this is done things will be a lot better ;) ;-)up
Peter
Nice work with the lapping Dave. Looking at the pictures I think something may have spent some time bouncing around in the right pot?
A few weeks ago, a big box arrived from VW Heritage containing a brand new set of Mahle Barrels and Pistons. Its always worth popping the pistons out of the barrels for a close inspection, just to make sure that there are no damaged rings or bits of debris in there from the production process.
I knew that the top two rings were the compression ones, and that it is important that the gaps in any of the rings are rotated to be as far away from each other as possible, and I also knew that the lower ones are the oil rings. Until watching an engine build DVD kindly lent to me by MickyB I had no idea what the significance of the green and red colours were though, although I have seen them before. Turns out that these colours are printed in such a way that if the oil rings have been badly assembled, then they will overlap and only one colour will be seen. As long as you can see both colours, then all is well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017012.jpg)
Unlike Beetle Cylinders, it is advised to only fit these pistons in from the top, because only the top edge of the barrel is flat, whereas the bottom has got a few cut outs that are used for aligning the Gudgeon Pin. If you try to insert the piston from underneath, then chances are that the rings will catch on the cut out sections and break. As you can see here, the rings stick out quite a bit and need to be compressed to get them into the barrel. If you are doing this bit properly, then it is really really messy, as you will have given everything a really good coating of engine oil for lubrication.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017013.jpg)
The Piston Ring Compression tools can sometimes be quite complicated and expensive, and those of you that are careful can usually squeeze the rings into the bores one by one using nothing more than the ends of your fingers. Its not ideal, but I have done it very successfully that way for many years. However, Machine7 do a very basic tool for under a tenner, and its worth investing in one of these if you are undertaking this sort of job.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017014.jpg)
The tool is really simple to use. You clamp it tightly around the piston rings with a pair of pliers, and then give the top of the piston a very gentle tap on the top and the piston will drop into the cylinder.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017015.jpg)
I`ll stick these to one side now until I am ready to fit them onto the engine.
Pretty sure I have a 1970 vintage ring compressor in the garage if you need a loan
Used it on my 105e and works a treat as it is quite wide so aligns everything well
The pistons are fitted to the Connecting rods in the engine by a big bit of metal called a Gudgeon Pin, or Wrist Pin if you are in the USA. I have turned the barrels upside down and pushed the piston through just enough that the pin can be slid over to one side. You need to be careful doing this as if the piston moves too far, the rings will be exposed and you will have to take it all apart and go back a few steps.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017016.jpg)
Assembly is made much easier if you fit one of the small circlips whilst its still on the bench. Fitting the other one when attached to the engine is hard enough, so you may as well make life a little easier for yourself. What you then have to do is guide the barrel down the four studs whilst trying to blindly align the Gudgeon Pin through the connecting rod of the engine, slide it home and then refit the other circlip. Sounds easy enough, but everything is an EXACT fit, meaning that nothing moves or slides as easily as you would like it to.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017017.jpg)
The gaskets are fitted to the cylinder base, and sealed with a layer or Permatex. Its the first time I`ve used this stuff, and have to say that I am quite impressed so far. I guess time will tell when the oil starts spewing out everywhere, but when applied with the brush its far less messy than the tubes of Hylomar that I am used to.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017018.jpg)
One of the top tips I picked up from watching that engine build DVD was to make sure that you fit No:4 cylinder first. The reason is because of the limited access on one side due to the oil filter mounts that stick out, and if you fit the other cylinder first, then you have no room to play with the gudgeon pin. This does also mean that you have to think ahead as to which barrel is going where and fit the circlip in the correct side for assembly. There is also the correct orientation of the piston to consider too, but I`ll show you that one in a minute.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017019.jpg)
This is one of the easier ones to fit. Whilst supporting the weight of the barrel and piston, you have to guide the gudgeon pin through the connecting rod hole, which will be a very tight fit, and this is done whilst trying to line up the four long studs through the holes in the cylinders. Its a bit of a faff, but if you take your time, its not actually that hard to do.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017020.jpg)
I mentioned earlier about the orientation of the pistons. If you have a look at the top of them, you will see a small arrow that has been stamped into the crown. It is very important that the arrow points towards the flywheel, as this is how the pistons have been designed to operate.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017021.jpg)
Cylinder head can now be fitted making sure that the nuts are tightened in the right sequence and to the correct torque.
Again, another brilliant write up with photos and well explained, I'm going to have bookmark all this
for future reference ;-)up
Peter :)
Cheers Peter, and feel free to use anything on here that may be of use over on your site too ;-)up
Thank You, I shall, as I have been having ideas lately :)
The photos are so clear and the thread is a great reference point at which to start ;-)up
Enjoying reading this Dave. Hopefully I don't have a rebuild on the horizon though!
A little tip! warming up the pistons with a hair dryer will let the gudgeon pins slide in easily, in a cold garage they can be a tight fit. It will also help when dismantling an engine ;-)up ;-)up
Rob
Top tip ;-)up
I`ll do just that this weekend when I put the other side together
Quote from: farmer rob on January 19, 2017, 09:27:53 PM
A little tip! warming up the pistons with a hair dryer will let the gudgeon pins slide in easily, in a cold garage they can be a tight fit. It will also help when dismantling an engine ;-)up ;-)up
Rob
That's funny, I use a hairdryer on the soft top when it's cold and I haven't put it on fir a while. It's the only way I can stretch it over the cage.
Fast becoming essential kit ☺
I don't own a hairdryer ;D ;D ;D ;D
I`m worried that with all this talk of Hairdryers that Andre will make an appearance ::)
Quote from: Chad on January 20, 2017, 06:40:30 PM
I don't own a hairdryer ;D ;D ;D ;D
You don't own Hair.
But I have a pic of you in a little old ladies.
The Type25 engine looks so similar to the Beetle engine when you first glance at it, but it has virtually nothing in common with it whatsoever. Here you can see the exhaust ports on the underside, and this can cause a fair bit of confusion too, as there seem to be two different types, a square port and a recessed oval port. I may be wrong on this one, but I think(!) that the oval ports were from the Type 4 engine from 1700cc~2000cc when fitted to a car, whereas the square ports were from the 2000cc Type2 / T25 as fitted to the Bus - I`m sure a purist will correct me on that one.
With the heads now fitted, the lower tinware can now be bolted on. It was probably a bit excessive to have gotten these powder coated, but the guy up the road that I am now using is so reasonable (£7 for both sides - blasted and coated) that it would have been rude not to.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017023.jpg)
I had all intentions of getting the old pushrod tubes powder coated as the same time, but a late night browsing session (as you do) saw a set of stainless ones arriving on my doorstep a few days later along with a new set of seals.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017024.jpg)
They are a lot easier to fit that the Beetle ones, as you can change them with the cylinder heads still in place. With the valve train removed these just slide through the holes in the head and locate in the crankcase with a "pop". They are still just as prone to leaking though, but just like the Beetle ones, take time, clean everything up properly, use new seals, and then plaster everything with as much sealant as you can and your garage floor may thank you for it. They are help in place by nothing more than a spring wire that locates against a groove in the valve train.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017025.jpg)
I think that they look quite good in place against the black engine and the powder coated tinware, but I just know that I am going to get some stick and ridicule over them. My once ratty looking Buggy is certainly adorning a bit of sparkly bling these days and very few have actually seen it since last years paint job, so I am preparing myself for the jibes and comments coming my way.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017027.jpg)
And whilst finally removing it from the engine stand, I am also painfully reminded about another major difference between this and a Type 1 engine, and that is the weight. It feels at least half as much again, if not more.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017032.jpg)
And thats the bottom end pretty much finished - just need to remove the flywheel from the old engine and sort the shims out for the endfloat.
I have just fitted a new Crank seal to the engine, and I thought while I was at it, I would replace the inner flywheel seal as it only costs a few quid. Whilst everything is apart like this, it was a false economy not to. I was a bit surprised at the state of the seal that came out though, bearing in mind that it had not been in there that long - I did it last time the engine came out which is not actually that long ago. The seal was really hard and brittle and kept its shape if you deformed it. Not good and glad that I ordered new one now.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017033.jpg)
And for those of you who are wondering where that seal goes, you can see the new one fitted here inside the flywheel.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017034.jpg)
Hope this one lasts longer - in fact, that statement applies to the engine too
It's when I read threads like yours, Dave, that I start to panic about my engine and long trips like IBW. Although my Buggy has only done 200 miles total since being built, the engine was built in 1986 and never been touched since then. It runs beautifully now but I do wonder what's going to pack up first!
Your motor looks superb. I'd definitely take any jibes to sport that in the back of mine ☺
Quote from: Zip Buggy on January 29, 2017, 02:36:29 PM
It's when I read threads like yours, Dave, that I start to panic about my engine and long trips like IBW.
I must confess that IBW is one of the few trips that I don`t actually worry about breaking down, as we are traveling with the best of the UK experts and amongst the best VW Enthusiasts that the world has to offer. Besides, I always maintain that the breakdowns are where the stories come from and new friendships made.
;-)(-;
Just thought I might mention after Dave has commented on the state
of his 'O' ring after such a short time...
The quality of anything rubber thats obtained from VW suppliers has in my expierience
been dire. Heaven knows where it comes from, but I would hazard a guess its a shed in Taiwan.
I always measure them and them buy one from a decent oil seal supplier, its not as difficult as
it may seem and there always people who know what they are talking about if you need to ask something
or tell exactly where it goes and what it has to do whilst in operation.
Surprisingly the stuff they sell doesnt fall to bits over night, one place could be these people
http://www.bearingstation.co.uk/products/O_Rings
We dont have to keep going back to the same VW places but just think about it a bit and then give a decent supplier a call.
After the appalling yearly ball joint boot fiasco I had and when Chris had one disappear to dust like a crushed oxo cube whilst still
in its sealed bag, I haven't replaced any for years since we got some from South Wales Propshafts. ;-)up
Peter
Quote from: Dave DND on January 29, 2017, 03:03:33 PM
Quote from: Zip Buggy on January 29, 2017, 02:36:29 PM
It's when I read threads like yours, Dave, that I start to panic about my engine and long trips like IBW.
I must confess that IBW is one of the few trips that I don`t actually worry about breaking down, as we are traveling with the best of the UK experts and amongst the best VW Enthusiasts that the world has to offer. Besides, I always maintain that the breakdowns are where the stories come from and new friendships made.
;-)(-;
Thank you for the words of comfort Dave. I'm building my spares kit for the trip with everything I can think of. Hopefully won't need it but you cna guarantee if I didn't bring spares , I'd need 'em :)
With the engine back in, its time to start reassembling all the bits. I know its often easier to build the engine up prior to reinstalling, but I only have one pair of hands down here and needed to keep the block as light as possible so I could move it about it on my own. Tinware is starting to go back on, as is the rear fan housing. The inlet manifolds have also been powder coated, and I`m going to try again with those troublesome Dellorto`s.
As some of you may recall, I have had nothing but problems with those carbs, and after sending them back to Eurocarb on three separate occasions they have returned with extra faults each time. I have a theory about Eurocarbs reconditioning process. I think that they strip down the carbs, stick them in an ultrasonic bath and then just reassemble them with new bits before sending them out. At no point do I think that they run them up and test them on a bench.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017037.jpg)
Anyway, last summer, I handed them over to someone who I knew could breath some life into them. Mr Engine Guru himself, Farmer Rob. Even he struggled though and reported back that the carbs were indeed full of bits and the internal galleries blocked. It took him several attempts to clear them, but after trying them out for a good few miles on his own Buggy, he handed them back to me with that knowing smile that told me that all should be well.
Thanks Farmer Rob ;-)up
Farmer Rob recently passed a comment on here, (and over the phone) that he was surprised that I was assembling the tinware with the engine in situ, as he thought it would be really fiddly to get to all of the nuts and bolts. Hopefully this photo taken with the camera resting on my back wheel will show that access is actually really good all round the engine with the exception of the rear lower tin on the left hand side, as its very tight squeezing this between the cylinders and the gearbox housing. It can be forced into place with the engine fitted, although I cheated with this bit and taped the tinware in place whilst the engine was offered up so I didn`t scratch the powder coat.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017039.jpg)
Admittedly, I have had this engine out a few times in recent months, and can almost do it blindfolded, but this time it was made much easier thanks to a Christmas present that my Dad found for me in the shape of this tiny little ratchet. Its only about 5" in length and has a normal 3/8" drive on it, but it is already one of my favorite tools.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017040.jpg)
Not only does it have a head that swivels, but the handle also turns into a T-piece making one handed operation possible with just about every awkward angle possible.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017041.jpg)
Not a cheap ratchet at around £25 from Machine Mart, but certainly one of those tools I would recommend to anyone as a "Must Have" for the toolbox.
I have had various sets of ignition leads over the years, and the last set I bought for this was a fairly expensive set of 8mm silicone leads. Like the Beetle leads, these also have a big rubber boot for sealing against the tinware. I was a little less than impressed when removing two of the leads from the cap as to just how badly made these were, and the poor quality crimps had fallen off the ends. Anyway, I decided to replace them with a set of Marine plug leads which have a longer rubber boot that is actually really tight to fit, the idea being that it stops water ingress completely.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017042.jpg)
I cut a larger hole in the old rubber tinware seal so that it would now slide over the top of the new Marine boot and still seal everything in place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017043.jpg)
Ignition sealant has been a hot topic over the last few days too, so I may just spray some over this lot purely as a belt and braces attempt to make mine driveable in the rain once more.
The time finally came to start the car, and it didn`t quite go to plan.
As with any new engine build, its important to test for oil pressure first, before you even think of starting it up. So with distributor cap removed, I cranked it over to see what would happen. Sure enough, the oil pressure eventually came to life, but the engine did not appear to be turning over quite as fast as I thought it would. I figured that because it was virtually a brand new engine, everything was probably still a little tight. It was not long before my freshly charged battery was flat, so I charged it up again and had another go, this time with the electrics connected.
It cranked and cranked and cranked. Nothing. Not a sound. After much head scratching and messing about, the battery had gone flat again and went back on charge overnight. The next day I tried again, it cranked and cranked and cranked, but this time gave a pop and a backfire. Then the battery went flat again. By this time I really was questioning everything I had done and many of you even phoned me with pretty much the same advice of going back to basics. Valve timing was checked. The rocker covers were removed and with one eye on the valve train, the position of the rotor arm checked to make sure that I had number 1 cylinder where I thought it was, and that the plug leads were in the right place. Everything else checked out fine too. It gave a pop and a bang though, so there was at least some fuel going in, and a spark to ignite it. It was tried again. It cranked and cranked and cranked, and apart from a small pop and bang, nothing else. It was starting to feel like Groundhog day.
What I had noticed though, over the last few days of doing this was how little time I had before the battery went flat. now, I am fortunate enough here to have some good battery analysers and whilst I knew my battery was indeed a good one, there was something that I had not factored into the equation, and that was the temperature. Cars tend to break down in the cold weather, and its quite often down to a battery problem. Whilst car batteries will perform admirably in the warm weather, and the voltage may remain at around 12v, their cranking capacity (or basically the amount of grunt they have) is significantly reduced in the cold, and at only 3 degrees inside my garage, my battery was reading at around 56% efficiency. Its quite a small battery I have, and possibly not enough to turn over a very tight engine with all its settings up the spout, and still have enough capacity to give a healthy spark as the starter motor was consuming every little amp that the battery could give.
So I pulled one of the large batteries out of my truck and rigged up a set of leads so that I could use both of them in parallel like a monster battery
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017044.jpg)
And sure enough, after a couple of turns, the engine fired into life. The timing isn`t set, the carbs are not set, but for a few moments, the engine ran. The temperature inside the garage has now dropped below 2 degrees, so time to go back indoors and come back to this another day.
But at least it ran, albeit briefly :D
So areyou saying you needed a new battery, not a new engine all along? :D
Quote from: Buggybaggy on February 08, 2017, 12:22:04 PM
So areyou saying you needed a new battery, not a new engine all along? :D
;D
Ask me again in a few days when its running properly
Yes Dave the cold weather certainly highlights a battery that's on its way out. The weedy battery in my buggy finally threw it's hand in this winter, I replaced it with heaviest duty one I could find in an 063 case which is the Varta C6 and is rated at 520 cca. about £58 delivered
Thanks to my little bit of bling from Megabug in the form of a timing scale that can actually be seen, (as opposed to the black numbers on black plastic sat in a dark recess) I have managed to set the timing.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017046.jpg)
And it now fires up straight away on the small battery once more - despite the cold weather ;)
Whilst trawling eBay and being outbid on many A-Frames at the last minute, I came across one advertised as "Collection Only" from Lands End. Funnily enough, not many people seemed to be that interested in it. A quick jaunt down the coast saw me returning with a complete system for the bargain price of £150 including the cables and brackets from the vehicle that it was previously fitted to. Most I have seen for sale do not include the vehicle specific brackets, and as a Buggy one was going to have to be bespoke, a fitting kit would give me a great head start to some fabrication design.
Now I am no means an engineer, (as you will have gathered from my various posts on here) but the thought process about tackling this one may either inspire you, show you where I went wrong, or at least give you a good giggle.
So this is the plate and bar from a Citroen C1. Its a heavy duty version made by Car-A-Tow (a name I have heard of) and it seems to be constructed from 6mm thick steel (or good old 1/4 plate). The bar is bolted to the brackets with 4 bolts, and the brackets are bolted to the Chassis. This bar is what I have to attatch to the Buggy somehow.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017047.jpg)
From others that I have seen, they all seem to be pulling on the beam with the brackets in line with the lower torsion bar. As the beam is held on to the rest of the chassis frame head with only four bolts, its stands to reason that this is where the initial strength is, so that is where I will start. Luckily, my mate Adam up the road had a narrowed beam in his workshop that he let me borrow so that I can mock this up on the bench instead of crawling around on the floor under the car.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017048.jpg)
What most people would do is to make up a couple of brackets that bolt to the holes, and then make something that sticks out for the front bar to bolt to. Sounds easy, but there are an awful lot of variables there. the uprights have to be exactly vertical, the bar has to be horizontal and it needs to stick out buy the same amount on either side - if any one of these is out, then it will affect the ability to pull the Buggy in a straight line. This is where I have another problem. Not only have my welding skills not progressed any further due to no electricity in the garage yet, but since the demise of my mate Bill and his workshop, I have to clamp this all together and run around getting someone else to tack it together. The margin of error here is enormous, so I thought the best way would be to simplify everything as much as I could by initially making it out of as few pieces as I am able to.
The easiest way to ensure everything lined up with the frame head holes was to make it out of one great big piece. I had a bit of 6mm plate here, so I drilled out the four 14mm holes. I now had to attach something to this at 90 degrees so that I could bolt the front bar to it. I`m aware that welding a plate at a right angle is not as great for strength as it could be, so after another rummage in the scrap pile I found a big bit of 6mm angle. I clamped this where I wanted it to be and then ran down the road to see Steve, who welded up the top edge for me - purely to hold it in place and no more.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017049.jpg)
Once this had been done, I could then drill a few holes and bolt on the front bar. As I said, its probably not the way most would have tackled this, but at least I can be certain that everything now lines up as it should do in all three planes. It weighs a ton as I found out when offering it up to the front of my Buggy. I had already removed the front bumper as I knew it would get in the way. Everything seemed to sit quite nicely behind the bonnet and the bar was sitting just below my number plate.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017050.jpg)
So far, the idea of making it in only a few parts seems to have worked well, but this big lump of steel is far from ideal. Now, I may not be able to weld (yet) but I am a dab hand with an angle grinder, so its time to put this on a very drastic diet and remove some of the metal that is not needed. After an hour with the grinder I ended up with this.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017051.jpg)
Now that I have the bare minimum left, (but with all holes in the right places), its time to start thinking about adding some strength back into these brackets. I chopped the middle section into a few bits and then headed back down the road to see Steve for another session of welding. Poor Steve is really scratching his head over this one, as when you are making something you usually have an idea what is going on, but at the moment I am handing over a few bits of metal and saying weld this bit here and that bit there.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017052.jpg)
But Steve could see what I was trying to do with adding some strength and deep welded up every single seam that he could. I then brought the brackets back home to cut off the excess metal once more and clean them up a bit. There is no doubt that these will be more than strong enough for the task ahead.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017054.jpg)
With it assembled onto the beam, you can now see how I am hoping that it should work.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017055.jpg)
After a quick trip up the road to see the guys at Spectrum Coatings, it now has a nice layer of powder coat to it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017056.jpg)
I am really pleased with how this has turned out so far and it has prompted me to do something about my lack of welding skills. A few years ago, RichStorm gave me a crash course into welding over the phone, and it was so good that I had a day experimenting with Stick/Mig/Tig down at Sawmill Jim's place and came away from there knowing that it was something I could definitely master in time. Lisa has just spotted a ten week welding course (MIG for beginners) at the local college, and I have booked myself a place on there starting in April.
Can`t wait. :D
Looks good Dave and over engineered with a decent safety margin compared to some flimsy off the self ones.
I hope its as strong as it looks. Been looking at quite a few over the last 12 months, and glad that all of the Buggy ones I have seen also appear to be built very well compared with some if the rubbish that does indeed come off the shelf for the modern cars.
Just hope it fits ::)
One of the other reasons for splitting that back plate into two bits apart from the weight saving was to allow me to unbolt the beam one side at a time without too many complications. And now came the moment of truth. Had what I fabricated on the bench be the right shape and size to fit under the front of the Buggy?
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017057.jpg)
For those interested in the technicalities, the main frame head 90mm bolts were replaced with M12 x 1.5 x 100mm 10.9 grade, and the smaller bolts holding the front bar on are M10 and rated at 8.8 strength. Apparently the zinc finish is now frowned upon as it weakens the surface of the bolts which is why most of them are now advertised as self colour or black. Some have suggested the use of longer bolts on the frame head with nuts at the rear, which whilst it sounds a great idea, I`m going to stick with the conventional method for now.
I have tried to keep the bar within the confines of the lower bonnet, and I think it looks quite subtle.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017058.jpg)
The A-Frame is really quick and easy to attach. The protective rubber caps are pulled off the end of the bar and the A-Frame arms are simply unfolded with the holes located over the end of the bar and secured with a split pin.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017059.jpg)
Lucky for me, I also have a metal loop on the bottom of the torsion tube, and that will do just nicely for the breakaway cable to attach to.
Don't know if this matters but to me the idea of two separate parts has a flaw in that when pulling straight it is spreading the load bit under cornering load will transfer to one side, IE onto one frame head mount and possibly introduce a twisting force.
You could rejoin them with a bolted plate/angle to reduce this and retain the benefits of two parts
I do tend to over engineer
A good point well made, but I think the way that the front bar attaches with the four bolts in line should alleviate that one somewhat.
Had the smaller bolts been one on front of the other, then I would agree with you, but side by side should remove sideways movement.
If you see me at Stoneleigh with half a car in tow, I`ll admit I got it wrong :-X
Just thought I would point it out, should be plenty strong enough. At least you wont have problems with downforce on the front.
One regret I have with my front bumper is that it needs all 4 bolts removed to take it off. If it come off in the future I intend to cut the brackets and fit bolt plates so I can take it off without unbolting the beam so see why you have done it that way
More than happy for people to point stuff out (and indeed criticise) - its the only way I can learn about stuff ;-)up
Front bumper is also an issue for me too, as the bracket is now obstructing my bumper mounts - need to have a think on that one.
Looks good, very unobtrusive.
You'll be making these as kits soon enough! haha!
Quote from: apmaman on February 23, 2017, 07:07:29 PM
You'll be making these as kits soon enough! haha!
Funnily enough, I`ve had that comment several times now - just wish I could weld, else I may just consider knocking a few out ;D
Can you find a way of mounting your bumper to the same bracket and have it removable, that would be a neat solution to hide it when the bumper is on.
Quote from: Dave DND on February 23, 2017, 07:50:24 PM
Quote from: apmaman on February 23, 2017, 07:07:29 PM
You'll be making these as kits soon enough! haha!
Funnily enough, I`ve had that comment several times now - just wish I could weld, else I may just consider knocking a few out ;D
You may want to re-phrase that. ???
Quote from: Roadrunner on February 23, 2017, 10:36:48 PM
Can you find a way of mounting your bumper to the same bracket and have it removable, that would be a neat solution to hide it when the bumper is on.
A quick release bumper ?
wow, never even considered that one ???
Shall have to give that some serious thought ;-)up
Quote from: Buggybaggy on February 24, 2017, 07:27:44 AM
Quote from: Dave DND on February 23, 2017, 07:50:24 PM
Quote from: apmaman on February 23, 2017, 07:07:29 PM
You'll be making these as kits soon enough! haha!
Funnily enough, I`ve had that comment several times now - just wish I could weld, else I may just consider knocking a few out ;D
You may want to re-phrase that. ???
What can I say ? ::)
I`m just so excited with the thought of learning to weld :D
;D
;D ;D
;D ;D
Mig Welding i sfar the easiest. Don't forget you can also weld Aluminium with the MIG.
I have MIG, TIG (AC/DC) and MMA (Stick) here at home. The MIG i use most and have different wires for different applications etc.
I used to be a Fabricator so have all the toys in the garage. Its all about comfort Dave make yourself comfortable when you are welding and tis a doddle. You will be out hanging upside down welding all sorts to the buggy soon enough
Be see'in you over on the http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/ (http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/) then! ;-)up
Quote from: fugglededumm on February 24, 2017, 08:59:20 PM
Be see'in you over on the http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/ (http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/) then! ;-)up
Didn`t know about that one - thanks ;-)up
Time to think about towing electrics. Actually that's not strictly true, because I thought about electrics the last time my bonnet was off, where I hard wired an extra trailer socket into the lighting system and cable tied it up under the front in anticipation of towing it one day. With the tow bar bracket now in place, there is actually a nice bit of room where a trailer socket could be located.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017062.jpg)
The socket I am going to use is the traditional one, and I managed to find a really heavy duty bracket that usually mounts behind the towball. I chopped a bit off and gave it a 90 degree bend, so it should fit perfectly.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017063.jpg)
And it fits just perfectly. You would have to look for this, as it is concealed very nicely behind the bottom half of the bonnet, which should also add some protection from the elements as well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017064.jpg)
The only thing left to try was to connect a cable from this socket to the trailer socket of my daily and check that all the lights worked.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017065.jpg)
And they did - Well, sort of.
Unlike conventional tungsten bulbs which can hide a multitude of sins. I`m actually using LED bulbs throughout my car and due to the nature of these, they can pick up and display the smallest of signals, including the CAN-BUS bulb monitoring systems of many modern cars. I have 3 cars in my yard with towbars, the Vauxhall and the Landrover both gave a slight flickering of the rear lights when everything was turned off, but my GMC truck with very basic electrics was just fine. I will endeavor to design some electrickery to stop this from happening in due course, but for the time being, there is a very quick fix.
Turn the sidelights on whilst towing. ;)
When I was researching the A-Frames last summer, I contacted a few Companies to see if any Beetle brackets and parts were available, to which the answer was no. Most of them were very helpful though, with the exception of one, Car-A-Tow, which was unfortunately the one I ended up with. I phoned them up and explained that I had picked up one of their excellent A-Frames through eBay and wanted to fit it to my car. I asked if they had any fitting kits or brackets to sell me, but the reply was that the Beetles they had done in the past were all bespoke systems and I would need to get something custom made. They also informed me that any parts I was missing, or required could be ordered via their website. Seemed fine enough.
I called them back a week or so later, where the guy remembered our conversation, and I said that I needed to know where the attachments went on the pedal, and at what height to drill the holes. The reply stumped me a little, as he said, "Sorry Sir, we do not give out that information". After I pointed out to him that they sold these products as a DIY fitment, and that I would have been more than happy to purchase a kit from him if he had one for sale, he very reluctantly forwarded some instructions on how to measure the holes. Basically it was a 6.5mm hole in the brake pedal about half way down, and a hole in the bulkhead, that was horizontally aligned with the pedal for the cable to go through. Luckily for me, I knew about those measurements last time I took the bonnet off, which made drilling everything and the preparation so much easier.
With the hole in the Bulkhead, and the bracket on the front where the cable exits, I could now work out a route from A to B making sure that I had no serious kinks, twists or sharp bends that would prevent the smooth operation of the cable and could now work out its length that it needed to be.
Now that things are progressing at last, I need to order a cable. I also wanted to get the correct type of cable so I trawled the Car-A-Tow website that showed that replacement cables could be ordered for around £60+vat and delivery, but gave no mention of sizes. I contacted them to be told by a very grumpy person that it was the guys father that handled that side of the business and to ring back later. I tried several times, over several days and eventually got hold of someone who clearly didn't have a good telephone manner. I said that I wanted to order a cable but the website didn't show what sizes were available, or how to order one for the length I wanted. The abrupt reply I got was that "custom cables were a real pain to make, took several weeks and so they only sold the standard size ones, take them or leave them" - and then slammed the phone down on me. Not quite the sales enquiry response I was expecting. I rang back and after eventually getting hold of the old man again, (and obviously not knowing how long a standard cable was), I asked what sizes the "standard" ones came in, to which I received a mouthful of abuse followed by "I don`t want to deal with you" and slammed the phone down again. Now I am not really one to name and shame on here (With the exception of the Torquay branch of GSF which just hack me off with their incompetence) but I have to now add Car-A-Tow to the list of the most miserable, arrogant and rudest companies I have ever dealt with.
Anyway, I digress, but felt that was important if looking at one of their products - that there is zero aftersales support. So, plan B was to give a call to Speedy Cables, who it turns out actually make the cables for Car-A-Tow, and after giving them my dimensions and £38, I received this in the post a week later.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017061.jpg)
I reckoned that about 15cm of cable movement should give me a 10mm bit of wriggle room, and that I had about 62cm from bulkhead to cable exit. Turns out that I was spot on. Here you can see the cable attached to the pedal and secured with a spring clip.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017066.jpg)
The cable is secured to the bulkhead by a couple of large washers and nuts either side, and then exits down towards the front of the car
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017067.jpg)
Its very important to make sure that there are no tight turns or twists in your cable route, else it might just jam up at some point.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017068.jpg)
And then its just a matter of adjusting the brake cable on the A-Frame to the correct length so that it can attach in seconds using a quick release pin.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017069.jpg)
Not tested it behind a car yet due to the bad weather, but the handbrake on the A-Frame seems to work, so I can`t be that far out.
I need to fit a number plate for when I`m towing. Those of you who have been messing about with horseboxes and trailers will probably be aware of the clips that are bolted to the vehicle, and allow you to slide in your number plate quickly. Some have big spring clips that clamp the plate top and bottom and are often so tight that they can be a little difficult to remove without a bit of force. Well that got me thinking.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017070.jpg)
Because if they can hold a number plate as tightly as they do, I can't see why you couldn't mount them on the back of a lightweight board that could incorporate a different number plate and a pair of triangles. I didn't want any weight to this, so chopped up a bit of foamex that I had kicking about from an offcut of an old shop sign. I pop riveted everything together so that it was also lighter than using nuts and bolts. With a couple of triangles and a quick change number plate bracket, I think you can see where this is going.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017071.jpg)
I use a quick change bracket because the number plate in there is double sided depending on which car I am using as a tow vehicle, I can just flip the plate over. This fits in seconds, locate the bottom edge on the spring clips and then lift it up so that it clips over the top edge of the plate. Its very tight, and doesn't really weigh much so I am confident that it should stay there whilst in motion.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017072.jpg)
Although this is not something that will affect me (as I do not have one) but remember to disable your steering lock before setting out, else you may have a problem with the first corner that your come to.
Looking good dave - question though - are those warning triangles far enough out?? They look a bit too in the middle of the car, I thought they would have had to be closer to the outside edges.
Paul
Not sure -
However, there are also reflectors at the outer edges within the original lights, so "technically" I think I`m covered :-\
likeing that set up dave very nice towing is now easy and legal very smart well done you
I have been really struggling with this particular engine build. Yes, I have adjusted things as best I could, and yes, I have had it running, but I have always had a niggle in the back of my mind that something was wrong and so I wanted someone with a bit more knowledge and experience to give it the once over and a decent tune up.
I had a chat with Ollie over at BeetleMagic, and he said that he was more than happy to have a play if I could get it over to him. Now Ollie is about a 100 miles from me, and I didn`t want to arrive there with a hot engine, then having to wait for it to cool down for a few hours so that he could set the valves from cold, so this also seemed a good time to try out my new A-Frame. My God, I`m so glad I towed this instead of driving it, because I am also about to seriously question one of the internet mistruths out there about the Valve train.
The Type 25 lump, Type 4 lump and possibly a few other variants out there including probably the Porsche 914 seem to have 2 versions of valve train fitted, either with solid lifters or hydraulic lifters. Over the years most of us have been cobbling engines together from bits we have kicking around, and so there are a few engines that have been mixed and matched along the way. Nothing wrong with that if it is done correctly.
Starting at the bottom, there are 2 types of Camshaft, that have slightly different profiles for either a solid lifter that is only in contact with the cam lobes as the valves are opening and closing and a hydraulic profile for the lifters that are in contact 100% of the time, as unlike the normal method of setting valve clearances with a feeler gauge, the hydraulic ones are set up under constant tension and the oil pressure does the rest. It is regarded as acceptable practice to put a solid lifter on a hydraulic cam, (but you may not get the most out of it), but you must never use hydraulics on a non hydraulic cam.
The pushrods themselves are of a different length, diameter and material, are dedicated to their respective lifters and must not be mixed under any circumstances. So far, everyone seems to agree with all of this, but its not until you come to the actual rocker gear in the heads that the problems can start. This is a picture of my own rocker gear as was. My engine has a hydraulic cam, but was previously converted by Farmer Rob to solid lifters (brilliant job, all done correctly, with all the right parts) and it ran for many miles. As I am lousy at tappet adjustment and would rather adjust them every few years than every few weeks, I decided to convert it back to its standard Hydraulic setup, along with correct pushrods etc etc, and again, it ran for many miles. Little did I know what a poor job I had done of it though.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017025.jpg)
Between the rocker arms is a big spring, and the idea is that when the valves are fully closed and there is a gap between the rocker arm and the top of the valve, the tension in that spring will push the rocker arm sideways, back into its correct position and realign it with the top of the valve, ready for its next cycle of operation. Its a simple system and it works very well. Now if you ask any of the experts, including many of the respected companies, garages and engine builders, they will all say that you can interchange the hydraulic and solid valve train without any issues, as the rocker arms themselves are of the same shape and ratio. This, however, is not entirely true and can be very damaging as I have just found out.
Because the hydraulic lifters are in constant contact with the cam, and under tension, there is no means for the side pressure of that spring to be able to realign the rocker over the valve at the end of every stroke. What can happen is that the rocker arm can move a minute fraction to one side after each cycle and can actually end up not being over the top of the valve at all. This is a picture of a different engine, but its the only picture I could find with the rocker arm out of place as I am trying to describe it.
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Junk/rocker1.jpg)
VW got around this by redesigning the rocker gear for hydraulics with some spacers in place to prevent the rockers from being able to move from side to side, and it does make you wonder how many failures they had for them to have gone down this new design route.
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Junk/rocker2.jpg)
The reason I mention this, (and why I am so glad that I towed the car to Ollie's) is that when Ben took the rocker covers off, one of the rocker arms (Inlet No:3 Cylinder) had somehow now positioned itself squarely over the side of one of the valve tops. If we had hit the starter button at that point, the rocker would have dislodged the retaining collets, pushed the valve straight into the pistons and destroyed the engine in a matter of seconds. I would never have known until it was too late. Over a brew, there was a good discussion between Ollie, Ben and myself about this one, as they had never seen this failure either, and we all reached the same conclusion about how the valve gear worked and how they would also now be keeping a close eye open for this mix up in the future.
This one was my own fault though. Like many aspects of Buggy building, I will ask everybody's opinion, I will research it on various forums and generally reach my own conclusions by ignoring everybody and doing my own thing. Sometimes it works out well, and sometimes it does not. In fairness to the 99.9% of the experts I asked (and there were numerous) they virtually all said that I could run the spring system with my hydraulics, and the last few thousand trouble free miles have indeed proved this. However, it is such a dangerous and potential fault to introduce into an engine that I am shocked that no-one seems to have heard of it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017073.jpg)
I`m fairly sure sure that my inability to set up the valves was not down to any sideways movement, but I breathed such a sigh of relief when we managed to salvage a complete valve train from a scrap engine in the yard, and Ben then set them up properly for me.
How amazing, bearing in mind the information you just put here I am amazed its not something thats come up before.
Just a question if I can, the three photos show what is undeniably a dodgy way of doing things
although it does work, the spacer seems to me a far better way to do this using
two flat type spring washers on each end to control sideways movement inside a safe range...
My question, in the small photo of the rocker being misaligned, if that rocker is on the outside
isn't it moving 'against' a sold rocker shaft mounting pillar... I am just trying to see how it could move
in that direction and come off in the first place, or is it 'bent'!
Its good to see you have found an issue that could well destroy the engine, so thats a plus if ever I heard one ;-)up
Peter
Quote from: Peter on March 18, 2017, 05:26:35 PM
My question, in the small photo of the rocker being misaligned, if that rocker is on the outside
isn't it moving 'against' a sold rocker shaft mounting pillar... I am just trying to see how it could move
in that direction and come off in the first place, or is it 'bent'!
I did mention that the picture I used was not of my engine, as it was the only one I could find to illustrate a rocker out of alignment. If you look at the first picture I used of my own engine, the rocker on the right (inlet) had travelled left about 10mm compressing the spring as it went.
If that makes sense ?
It does make sense :)
Changing to the use of spacers though is the best thing that can be done,
many people said you could run the spring and now you know you can't.
At least the issue was seen before any really nasty damage was done ;-)up
Its a great warning to people to post it up :)
Peter
An interesting point that would be worth posting on the van sites for T25 and alike that use the engine.
When I first rocked up at Ollie's garage, one of the first things he spotted were my Dellorto's and a vacuum distributor, and commented that it was not the most ideal combination. I had kind of figured this one, as Farmer Rob has always said that the vacuum signal from the Dells is exceptionally weak. However, Ollie said that he would do what he could with what we had now that the valves were sorted.
Now I have had real trouble setting the timing on this one. It has been bouncing around all over the place, which is kind of why I was losing my rag with it and took it down to someone else for a second opinion. I have even tried fitting my spare Pertronix unit inside, but still no joy.
It was not long before Ben and Ollie were head scratching a bit too, which did make me feel much better. Even with the vacuum pipe disconnected, and hooked up to their trusty tacho light, when the 28 degree setting was adjusted it would suddenly start to jump about - between 2 and 4 degrees either way at random. The advance seems to work throughout the range, but when the revs stabilize anywhere the jumping starts - it was bizarre. Only thing to try next was a different distributor. That proved to be an issue, as there was nothing to hand, so I shot back home to pick up my spare Pertronix 009 - not the most brilliant of distributors, but it gave a very conclusive result as the timing readings were now absolutely rock solid.
Ollie then set about playing with the carbs. I knew that these were now sorted as Farmer Rob had given them his magic touch a while back. Ollie told me that my balancing was actually pretty good apart from one side running slightly richer than the other due to the mixture screws being wound out too far. After a few moments playing, the sound of the engine had changed dramatically - it was so much smoother (apart from the massive popping and banging on the overrun) and it seemed to pull like a train when you put your foot down.
That's a classic sign of an air leak on the exhaust system, and sure enough, I could see where a few joints were now blowing. As much as I like my exhaust, I am also beginning to loathe it too. I have had brackets snap, joints fail, engine stud hanger broke and it has been on and off so many times now that its getting hard to keep the slip on joints sealed. This time I plan to seal them in such a way that it will need to be cut off if it gets removed again. And that is exactly whats planned in a few months time, as I have now booked it in with Beelzedub to do the exhaust properly. From day one, Farmer Rob spotted a problem with the firing order of the pipes, and when he told me, I checked this with Bill who assured me it was correct and not a problem. Except I have now found out that it appears that Bill did indeed get the firing order wrong and has paired up the wrong cylinders when he put it together.
Apologies Rob, should have listened to you when you told me that a while back.
Well . . . . . . . Time for an update . . . . . :'(
I test drove the Buggy down at Ollie's place after he had tuned the carbs to within an inch of their life, and my god the power was awesome - it felt fantastic. After returning back home with a huge tube of exhaust sealant, I pressed the starter hoping that it would now all be sorted, and my heart just sank. It felt just as bad as it did before taking it over to him. The engine coughed and spluttered and backfired once more, and although I knew the potential of those Dellorto's, that was it. I have just about had enough of them and they are coming off. They are definitely a good brand of carb, its just that I seem to have a bad pair. I have spoken with many people about these, and I seem to be getting a similar reply in that they are brilliant carbs, but they do seem to need constant attention. Can`t be arsed with that, so the old trusty ICT`s are going back on, especially as I know I have bits of tank sealant and crap in my fuel tank, and the jets in the Webbers are so large that it would be very difficult to block them, regardless of the amount of gravel in my fuel lines.
I threw them back on quickly for the Birmingham N.E.C. show and had a very brief play at setting them up. The popping on the overrun seemed to have disappeared, but had now been replaced by the sound of a 12 bore gunshot along with an 18" flame out of one of the silencers whenever I touched the throttle. I also now appeared to have a distinct flat spot when pulling away, which I never had before, but put this down to the 009 that had been fitted. Whilst at the N.E.C., Snoopy had a quick play with the carbs, and found that my base settings were quite a way out, but gave me enough pointers to have a play myself when I got back home. I replaced the 009 distributor and reverted back to the old vacuum one I had previously fitted, and sure enough the flat spot had gone - but that gunshot backfire was getting worse. Not a great noise when you live in a town full of pensioners.
This engine seems to have had a few people scratching their heads, and so last Sunday I dragged it back up to Farmer Rob and left it with him. It has had him a little stumped at times too, especially when he was getting poor compression readings one minute, and good ones the next. Today, I received the bitter sweet phone call with his diagnosis. It would appear that some of the valves are not always seating correctly in the cylinder heads, and have indeed been damaged by the use of the springs in the valve train as previously mentioned. Bugger. New valves and guides required all round then.
I have always said that this was going to be something really simple and daft, or something really nasty - turned out to be the latter. It would certainly account for the erratic problems I have been having, and why it has been so hard to set anything up.
Ferry booked to IBW Germany in 56 days time :o No pressure then :-X
:'(
Bit of a nightmare Dave. But at least you know the problem now. You'll have it ready for IBW I'm sure. How about Stoneleigh :D
Not good news at all, hope you can get it sorted out in time. 56 days doesn't sound like a lot but I'm sure it'll get back to life! Without setting people behind you on fire.
Bad luck Dave.
If you had 57 days you'd have time to work through all 57 varieties of buggy issues !
Like the saying 'if you build it they will come' your route is built on to the IBW map so your buggy darn well better follow its orders.
I have every confidence that Rob will sort this one out for me and look forward to having a summer out on the road again. Just hoping that I can get some miles in beforehand, as didn`t really fancy Germany as my first trip to run in and shake down my new engine.
Its going to be tight, but not given up hope just yet. To be honest, I am more relieved that something has finally been found that could potentially cause the fault. I`m so pleased that I took it to the engine guru as there is no way I would ever have found this one, and didn`t even spot how knackered the valves and guides were when lapping them in. Apart from the steering wheel, the cylinder heads are pretty much the only thing I have not swapped out. I feel it only right to also acknowledge the eagle eyes of Ben down at Beetlemagic, because if he had not spotted that rocker arm out of alignment, we would never have had that chat over a brew to work out how it had happened, which means that the heads could well have ended up being rebuilt in exactly the same incorrect way. Nobody seems to have heard of this before, and many so called experts are raising a few eyebrows in disbelief over what has happened.
Hydraulic tappets MUST have spacers on the rocker shafts - NOT SPRINGS !!
Got to be worth putting new heads on Dave? I know thet are not cheap but you know that they will be 100%.
To be honest Flags, I am getting really suspicious of any of the new parts available these days - they are all made of cheese and of inferior quality.
Rob has sent my heads over to a machine shop to get them overhauled properly ;-)up
Quote from: Dave DND on April 11, 2017, 10:58:55 PM
Ferry booked to IBW Germany in 56 days time :o
Looks like I'm booked to go a week earlier than you! Either I've booked the wrong ferry or you have a week less than you thought. ???
;D ;D the way my luck is going, I think you know the answer to that one ::) :P
QuoteTo be honest Flags, I am getting really suspicious of any of the new parts available these days - they are all made of cheese and of inferior quality.
Spot on...
I know everybody has bugets, but when stuff is needed for repairs or upgrades the only
way to get it right is to buy either original parts or original manufacturers products.
Carbs being one...
As long as everybody uses South Wales Prop Shafts for their ball joint boots they wont be buying anymore for heaven knows how long.
Copies of carbs, generators and 'specially' rubber bits and pieces, are in a nutshell, complete crap!
Its best to wait if you cant afford some things and get them when you can, as it comes up time and time and time and time again and I'm always surprised that many dont seem to take it on board!
If we stop buying crap and stick with the real stuff, they wont have anyone to sell it all to ;-)up
Peter ??? :)
As far as I know there is only 1 type of 2Ltr heads on the market and from what I've heard they are good.
Old parts are old parts and have normally gone past their expected service life so where possible an OE quality part would be a better choice in my opinion.
I know some of this is sales pitch but read it then tell me it does not make sense.
http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/index.php/cylinder-heads
As for "made of cheese"....
That's one of mine so yes I do know how bad some of the number 52's from the Golden Dragon can be but not all new parts are pony.
Update on the rough running:
The cylinder heads have now had new valves and guide fitted, been refitted back on the engine, and guess what . . . . .
. . . . problems are still there :'(
Only thing left to change now is the steering wheel ::)
Bad news, what on earth is it
Have you got the old engine to put back in
Feel for you mate
Bug**r buggy.
It's an issue that's really beyond the Fawlty Towers solution of beating with a small branch whilst making agitated 'dance' movements....
Sorry to hear that Dave. What's the next step, back to basics?
Keep the faith!
Paul
Quote from: Doon L001 on April 28, 2017, 04:45:53 PM
Bad news, what on earth is it
Have you got the old engine to put back in
Feel for you mate
Absolutely no idea what is causing this - the fact that Farmer Rob is scratching his head also makes me feel a lot better though, as its certainly not something I would ever have got to the bottom of myself. I`ll know more after catching up with Rob this weekend at Stoneleigh.
Old engine was doing the same thing right up until the point the big end starting grumbling - there is actually very little now that has not been replaced and yet the same fault is persisting. I really wasn`t kidding about replacing the steering wheel - virtually everything else is new.
:-\
Quote from: Hugh on April 28, 2017, 04:54:24 PM
It's an issue that's really beyond the Fawlty Towers solution of beating with a small branch whilst making agitated 'dance' movements....
Small Branch ?
Mate, I`ve even resorted to beating it with a Credit Card - nothing left to buy that hasn`t already been replaced ::)
Quote from: pepsi81 on April 28, 2017, 04:56:04 PM
Sorry to hear that Dave. What's the next step, back to basics?
Keep the faith!
Paul
Difficult to know what back to basics actually is though. :-\
Changed:
Carbs / Distributor / Electronic ignition system / Manifolds / Barrels / Pistons / Valves & Guides / Engine Casing / Crank / Cam / Rocker Train
Even tried changing the driver :P
Not a lot left that we haven`t done :-\
OK I see where you're at.
So its the steering wheel and so we need a post on which steering wheels people recommend for rough running...
Bummer Dave, got to be the complete fuel system next or is it doing it on a test bed too?
Have you changed the rotor arm and cap lately? I had a spare in my shed for ages. When I took it out the box the contacts inside were corroded and the centre pin had fell out with the spring.
Consigned it to the bin...
Cleaned up my old one and the rotor end ......worked fine.
Thats crazy. I wonder what it would possibly be.
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, what about fuel pressure/flow.
Paul
Quote from: Hugh on April 28, 2017, 05:19:32 PM
OK I see where you're at.
So its the steering wheel and so we need a post on which steering wheels people recommend for rough running...
;D
Quote from: Flags on April 28, 2017, 05:23:16 PM
Bummer Dave, got to be the complete fuel system next or is it doing it on a test bed too?
When Ollie played with the dells on it, he had it pulling like a train, but still backfiring and popping like a good un - I`ve checked fuel pressure and its good, and the fact that the Dells were pulling would indicate that there were no starvation issues. Gone back to ICT`s for no other reason that I trust them, and fault remains. Rob seems to think that its rough running on two cylinders on opposing sides, and that kind of rules out a lot of things.
Quote from: Shaggy on April 28, 2017, 05:23:58 PM
Have you changed the rotor arm and cap lately? I had a spare in my shed for ages. When I took it out the box the contacts inside were corroded and the centre pin had fell out with the spring.
Consigned it to the bin...
Cleaned up my old one and the rotor end ......worked fine.
Leads, plugs. rotor arm, cap, distributor, electronic ignition module, ever gone from Vaccuum to non vaccuum dizzy - no joy
Perhaps a strange question but was there a 'first' thing you changed (months/years ago) to try and solve the rough running ?
Or put another way was there a time when the engine set up (carbs, electrics and of course steering wheel) actually ran OK without the rough running ie is there living memory of whether a smooth running combination is achievable ?
Sometimes I tinker and soon find I've gone one step forward and two back so wish I'd just lived with the, by now, relatively minor previous configuration.
It such a cruel truth that your time/energy/blood/sweat/tears have been thrown back at you although I have to admit, even despite it being green, you do have an amazing looking buggy to tow, put on a recovery truck or just park outside your house...
Bummer but I would go for the carbs your dellortos were just crap and the solex on there now are worn and a rebuild would help, another option is a type 4 injection manifold and a set up or a mega squirt box and ford pick up sensor
Hugh makes a very good point. My experience on British motorbikes taught me to change one thing at a time. I often say that all my carb problems have turned out to be magneto problems.
Do you know anyone with exactly the same engine. Can you try swapping components one at a time until you infect their engine? :-D
Seriously I have done this with a mate on bikes.
Similarly I'm always wary of brand new components. Duff batches of spark plugs etc. I like to be able to pull a part off something I know is working.
Have you tried rigging up a gravity fed temporary petrol tank above the engine? maybe an old bike tank or something strapped to the cage as an experiment.
Good luck. It will be something small and annoying.
This is always the most frustrating thing to be happening and Campbell is absolutely right
The engine has had a lot of work and issues have been attended to, and as it turns out, isnt helping.
I know there is advice coming from every direction, and will add my thoughts.
Go back to basics, one by one, test, one by one again, test...
My first port of call would be the distributor cap, hair line cracks appear even in new ones, dont buy
cheap, get original. Rotor arm, I know all this is new, but it has to be done.
Then swap the leads for new or known to be good, one at a time, and test. You will be working backwards, one step at a time
and eliminating each component as you go. Spark plug caps, one by one...
Backfiring is most often a result of fuel mixture, but issues like this can mean that something else, probably electrical is breaking down
in the sequence of events, one part alone is playing up, the coil, swap it out when you have done the other stuff.
I hope it gets resolved, but absolutely know, you must change each component in the system one by one and then test.
If the entire electrical system thats attached to the engine still doesnt sort it out, then at least you know and can start to focus
elsewhere.
Dont get cross, have a plan, and stick to it
Good Luck :-)
Dave know you must be frustrated, but more thoughts to add to the mix. Can't remember but are you running electronic ignition. If so perhaps try returning to points and condenser, just to remove the possibility that the electronics are breaking down. I've had all sorts of issues with my Petronix in a 'good' svda distributor, never resolved. Points have made a massive improvement. Frustration has been not making good with the Petronix kit.
Paul
Update:
A huge thanks to everyone that has pitched in with ideas and suggestions, and an even bigger thanks to those that came up to me at Stoneleigh to say that they had analysed my entire build thread and reckoned the problem seemed to manifest itself about the same time I fitted the hydraulic lifters.
Funnily enough, I had been thinking along the same lines, and at Stoneleigh had a full set of solid lifters and pushrods to hand over to Farmer Rob, only to find out that as always, the engine guru is one step ahead of us and had just fitted a set himself with a significant change in the way the engine is now behaving. After chatting with him today, unbeknown to him, it transpires that VW also had a few issues with the hydraulics, and only ran with them for a very short length of time.
The engine backfire problems seemed to originate from cylinders number 1 and 3, (which are on opposite sides), and they share an exhaust cam lobe. This meant that the problem was either caused by an oil pressure issue in that vicinity (on both engine blocks) or that we had multiple hydraulic follower failure, with erratic valve timing as a result, which I think is more likely.
There is still a little way to go, as Rob is now trying to make sure that everything else is up to his very high standards, but I am really hopeful that I now have a summer of fun ahead of me, and should know for sure in a few days
:D
That's good news Dave Iv got my fingers crossed for you that it's ok n good 👍
Great to read.
So the steering wheel isn't to be changed yet ?!
;D
The steering wheel (only thing not yet changed) is being kept in reserve . . . Just in case ;)
;-)up
Wsome good news at last then
Quote from: Dave DND on May 02, 2017, 05:28:26 PM
;D
The steering wheel (only thing not yet changed) is being kept in reserve . . . Just in case ;)
Don't change the wheel, you will only break it again
Good news Dave ;-)up ;-)up
Farmer Rob is no longer just an engine guru - He has been upgraded to Engine God ;-)up
All Hail Farmer Rob (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/bowing.gif) (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/bowing.gif) (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/bowing.gif)
(Actually, I bet there are many with engines from Rob out there who share that sentiment completely)
The phone conversation last night confirmed that replacing the hydraulics have done the trick, and the remaining popping from the exhaust leaks are now also cured (for now anyway). I`m hoping to collect it at the weekend and I know that I will receive some stern instructions never to take a spanner to that engine or mess with it again.
Driving to Germany in less than 4 weeks - no pressure then ::) :-X ;D
Great news Dave. That case must have had a manual cam fitted in it at some time for that to cure the woes.
I've managed about 50 miles in mine since the rebuild and so far it has blown a dip relay, broke a clutch cable, has a noisy serpentine bearing, shredded the belt and now that it's settled it needs the rear taking up a notch.
You need to get some miles in then.
Great news! Fingers crossed thats it sorted.
Quote from: Flags on May 04, 2017, 12:04:11 PM
That case must have had a manual cam fitted in it at some time for that to cure the woes.
Not sure about that one - I think the problem is probably down to the poor quality Hydraulics (brand new from Heritage) that I fitted in order to revert the engine back to its standard guise as VW intended. I think the parts I used were probably acting erratically and not opening and closing the valves with any consistency. Then factor in the additional valve train spring problems that Ollie and Ben spotted, which caused the valves and guides to bend, and this was just all doomed from the start.
Desperately need to get some miles back on it 8)
Yes if a lifter was not fully pumping up or not draining down that could have been it.
I will not use VW Heritage for anything anymore after they sent me Chinese made brake cylinders that were advertised as Brazilian then completely fobbed me off with the 'You are only the customer attitude'.
Quote from: Dave DND on May 04, 2017, 12:56:42 PM
Desperately need to get some miles back on it 8)
Well then trailer the buggy up to Rob, fit the engine and get Liz to drive the van back, while you have all the fun.
Quote from: Dave DND on May 04, 2017, 11:34:23 AM
Driving to Germany in less than 4 weeks - no pressure then ::) :-X ;D
If I din't get my oil slick sorted on my newly named 'Torrey Canyon' buggy, tgen I'm a shoe in for tale end Charlie on the UBW run.
Good ti hear things are looking up for you.
Great stuff Dave, pleased you are almost sorted. Rob is indeed the man ! ;-)up
Fantastic news Dave! Well done Rob :D
Good news dave! I have been snooping at all these fancy tow bars. With yours looking good to make it to ibw i will have more metal bits for me to poke at.
Great news!
Thats really good news Dave.
Putting the towing bracket on my car has been brilliant, except that it fouled the mounts for my bumper. With IBW looming, I wanted to make sure that I had some front protection for on the ferry, so had to make something up.
I have recently been doing MIG welding at the local college (4 weeks so far) and when the tutor asked if we had any little projects that we wanted to bring in, I jumped at the chance and asked if I could bring the Buggy over. The initial reply was that it would not fit on the bench, but being a fellow petrol head, he agreed just so long as any welding was done off the car.
With a couple of spacers at either end, I chopped the front bumper in half and then sleeved and welded it back together, using some heatshrink to cover it for now. No point spending out on fancy coatings, as this is only a temporary fix until I can get a stainless one made at a later date.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017076.jpg)
At least its now protected, and my A-Frame also fits within it.
Good thinking ;-)up
Another trip looming, and dealing with another poor quality part failure.
I do seem to be having an endless amount of bad luck when it comes to adding any parts to my car and I cannot believe how we all put up with the shoddy parts that are being turned out these days. From my childhood days, I have always messed about with CB radios, and I can vividly remember the day when it went legal in 1982. From that day to this, I have had many rigs and many different configurations. The only things that ever broke were Mic wires from stretching them too far, and the occasional output stage going pop from not setting the SWR correctly - (in fairness I was only twelve at the time). Things broke because of our own stupidity, not because they were poorly built. So where am I going with this? Well, apart from engines, my Buggy also seems to have an unhealthy appetite for rejecting aerials on the back.
In the early days, I had a pair of Stingers. Very basic steel aerial with a huge coil spring at the bottom. They bounced around all over the place, and often reached the horizontal when going along due to the wind resistance of the flags that I was flying at the time. They were brilliant aerials to look at, but on a fiberglass vehicle, the CB performance of them was diabolical.
For those unawares, many radio transmitter aerials also use the metal bodywork of a car to distribute the signal correctly, and when there is little or no metalwork, then we need to look at using specialist types of aerials to overcome this.
I tried a center load aerial that I had kicking about, which gave a very good SWR reading, but it swung about so much that I seriously feared I may take someones eye out if they were walking close by - such as carnivals and processions - so that one was scrapped. I tried a top loaded aerial of dubious origin (ChineBay) and the six foot helically wound antenna was so thick (18mm) that there was no give in it whatsoever. Whilst cruising the ring road, it had an argument with a swooping seagull that left the aerial shattered midway and the mounting point on the engine cage bent. No flex whatsoever. Back to the drawing board yet again.
This time I decided to splash out and go for a genuine branded "Firestick" antenna. These were amongst the "Must Have" brands of the day, and their performance was legendary. For the price of a pair over here, I could import 4 of them from the USA, so that's what I did. I was about to say that many of you will have seen my nice red 4 foot aerials on the back, and then I remembered that the car hasn`t been out much for the last few years what with one thing and another. It wasn`t until I realised that my CB was shutting down due to an incredibly high SWR reading that I noticed that the base of the antenna had cracked. The two grub screws were still holding the fiberglass pole, but it was flexing so much that the copper wire had parted from the base. Not impressed.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017074.jpg)
I`m running out of ideas here, as most of the antennas that are suitable for the Buggies simply do not have enough "Flex" in them at the base. Looking at Peter's Buggy, he is using a Sirio antenna that has a big spring on the base plate. It seems to tick all the boxes, and if it goes wrong, I can blame him. The only niggle I have, and it is a minor one, is that they only come in black.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2017077.jpg)
But a bit of green heatshrink soon cured that one. ;)
SWR was damn near perfect, the needle hardly moved - now all I need to find is someone else with a CB so I can try it out ;-)up
Try it out with me Dave, I'll have my cb at IBW, not idea what swr is tho I just have an Arial on the rear 😳😳🤔🤔
Hopefully everything will be ok, I often talk to truck drivers on my way to work
if I travel near the motorway, and so far my Sirio GL27 has worked perfectly.
Davy, you really should take the time to understand, check, and then set up the SWR, as if its very high you will
destroy your CB, which would be silly really. Also, if you do take the time the CB will work far better than you realise,
in what it can receive...
Buggy's don't do well with most aerials as the metal bodywork (the ground plane) doesn't exist anymore, the
Sirio has made a huge difference in that it all actually works, it's specifically designed for fibreglass bodied vehicles, buggy's, boat's etc.
Whilst the CB is scanning as I drive to work, I have been surprised how many drivers of trucks and vans etc use them.
Peter ;-)up
(http://www.manxmaniac.co.uk/albums/CB-Radio/slides/CB2.jpg)
That looks similar to mine Peter I'll try and find a photo
Best I can find. This has a coax type lead back to the cb
That's about the sum total of my knowledge on the subject
(http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/davydoff/Buggy/9E5FF5AF-4CD8-4115-A2C0-D5803487801D_zpsgswm8nnh.jpg) (http://s903.photobucket.com/user/davydoff/media/Buggy/9E5FF5AF-4CD8-4115-A2C0-D5803487801D_zpsgswm8nnh.jpg.html)
Thats it! ;-)up
When you get a chance though, check things with an SWR meter, they arn't expensive
and it will be something else you have covered.
I spect there will be one in a buggy somewhere in Belgium so you can maybe
go through it there
Peter :)
It sounds like he has got too much power and speed now, causing them to bend too much ;D ;D ;D
Rob
Quote from: farmer rob on June 01, 2017, 10:06:10 AM
It sounds like he has got too much power and speed now, causing them to bend too much ;D ;D ;D
Well at least its not my ultra smooth suspension rattling them to bits ;D :P
The Snow has now gone, and after the recent spurt of enthusiasm from the NEC show, I thought it was time to open the garage doors again, and I must confess that I have had another Britney moment with regards to wheels, tyres and late night eBaying
Oops . . I did it again ! ::)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018001.jpg)
Still, this time, I have managed to end up with a better set of 7 x 14`s for the front and have just had them shotblasted, powdercoated and diamond cut so that they now match my rears.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018002.jpg)
Just need to get the tyres back on now and get the Buggy out in the sunshine :D
Looking good Dave :D
Looking amazing.
Hope to see them on your next tour of the Midlands.
I think Britney would say they looked 'Toxic' !
Seems a shame to put tyres on those wheels and cover all that lovely red. ;-)up
Quote from: Buggybaggy on March 28, 2018, 07:30:24 PM
Seems a shame to put tyres on those wheels and cover all that lovely red. ;-)up
;D I know what you mean - thats why they are sat on the floor and not on the car :D
Quote from: Dave DND on March 28, 2018, 07:32:26 PM
Quote from: Buggybaggy on March 28, 2018, 07:30:24 PM
Seems a shame to put tyres on those wheels and cover all that lovely red. ;-)up
;D I know what you mean - thats why they are sat on the floor and not on the car :D
You could always put them in the lounge as a decoration, they look very nice.
Lovely. Have to get my wheels done one day
Is it okay to have powder coat where the tyres mate with the rim? Not criticising just wondering.
Quote from: Doon L001 on March 28, 2018, 09:10:50 PM
Is it okay to have powder coat where the tyres mate with the rim? Not criticising just wondering.
Absolutely - and its actually the reason why I went down the powdercoat route.
Old Slot mags seem to suffer from porosity, and seems to get worse with age. Not sure if thats a true fact or not, but certainly something I have noticed when trying to keep air in my tyres on these old rims. Powdercoating them seems to seal everything up quite nicely and for the ones I have now done, I have never noticed the slow leaks like I used to.
:-\
Cheers Dave
That's a question that stopped me getting mine done years ago
Down here in Sunny Paignton, the weather of late has been hot . . .
In fact its been bloody hot . . .
And whilst I should be really pleased about 30 degrees of perfect Beach Buggy Weather, my Buggy has decided to go all rebellious on me and complain
I am absolutely gutted about what I have spotted across my bonnet :'(
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018003.jpg)
I always knew that 32 coats of painted metalflake was an experiment, and that at some point it could have gone drastically wrong - but what I had not envisaged was that the thickness of the paint didn`t quite expand as quickly as the fiberglass underneath it, and it has split wide open several years later.
I will deal with it properly at some point in the future though - I had planned to do some body mods to the bonnet at some point and add a scoop around the number plate, which would mean getting it repainted at some point - I just hadn`t planned on this right now.
I need to seal it up asap though to prevent any more dirt or water ingress getting under the rest of the paint in the meantime, so will do a temporary fix and let you know
:'(
That is not good but not an uncommon problem with painted fibreglass, could you use your clear protective film to stop water getting in.
I was thinking about maybe throwing some lacquer and flake in the hole for now and then redoing it properly when I have more time :-\
See what tomorrow brings
I feel for you Dave and I guess its little consolation but like splitting your trousers at least the under wear is the right colour not to be noticed at a distance.
I'd have thought there were many lacquers available that could quickly seal it and stop ingress. Just want one that may allow the cooling fibre glass to close up the gap if it's minded to shrink in the same way ? Perhaps too much to hope for...
Really sorry for you. Taken time and effort for you. What about cutting out an appropriate shape from some some clear protective pvc sheeting. Will do as a temporary repair plus you can monitor expansion or hopefully shrinkage.
Just a thought :-\
Paul
No point feeling sorry for myself, might as well crack on with it.
If you remember my "Madness with Metalflake" thread, I had some pretty good results so I thought I would try and tackle this in an unconventional way.
Its only temporary, and if it goes wrong, I will have to paint the bonnet anyway - so with nothing to lose, here goes . . . .
I cleaned out the crap that had got in there with a scalpel and applied a thin layer of Mazda Green from a touch up pen I had.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018004.jpg)
Next I mixed a little 2 pack lacquer with some flake in it
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018005.jpg)
And then carefully applied some with a paintbrush. I knew that I must not get any on the clear sides of the split, otherwise I may go through the flakes when polishing which would give me a silver stripe which would look even worse.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018006.jpg)
The problem here was that I put far too much flake in, and it looked very dark. You couldn't see the base colour through it at all. I know that the flake is not going to be as flat and well suspended in the lacquer as the rest of it, and that when the light catches it in certain directions it is going to look rough.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018007.jpg)
But this just didn't work for me, so I cleaned it all out and started again. This time I put a far lighter coating of flake in, and it does look much better.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018008.jpg)
Time to seal it up - which was the initial task when I went into the garage an hour ago. I knew that the 2 pack lacquer took several months to dry and cure when it was initially painted, and I didn't hold out much hope of it doing this in time for me going out for a drive (probably in the rain) 48 hours later. So I decided to use some of the modelling Gel Coat that I messed about with previously.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018009.jpg)
I mixed the Gel Coat fairly strong, so that it would cure quickly under the strong sunshine in the yard this afternoon. Then it was time to tackle it with some 240 grit to get the big lumps down a bit. Always nerve wrecking this bit. Those with eagle eyes will notice that I am actually tackling multiple splits here - yep - that bonnet really did go with a vengeance.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018010.jpg)
Then some 800 grit, 1500 grit and some polishing compound
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018011.jpg)
It certainly is not the prettiest of repairs, and if the sunlight catches it wrong, then it does look like a dirty great stripe across the bonnet
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018012.jpg)
And by the same token, if the sunlight catches it right, from some angles its actually quite hard to see.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018013.jpg)
This does give me a bit of hope - If this is what I can achieve with a couple of hours rushing about, I wonder what results I could get if I took my time over a few days?
This is still only meant to be a temporary fix to seal up the hole, so just bear that in mind when you see it next.
Looks pretty good to me ;-)up . Wish I could sort the osomis on my bonnet as well.
Don't think I'm paranoid, honest ;D
You've to be a certain age ;-)(-;
Paul
dave have you thought of useing a syringe to back fill the metal flake, (the type without the needle) maybe try a practice on something at another time, 1 steady bead with the flake and another thicker bead of laqure covering then cut it back.
I feel for you Dave, but must sat your chouce of words made me laugh... "No point feeling sorry for myself, might as well crack on with it."
Crack, really! ;D
This does give me a bit of hope - If this is what I can achieve with a couple of hours rushing about,
Dave... This is what it`s all about... The "Smart" repair guys do exactly the same... building up with paint then polishing flat. I never found a way to "repair" the first of the metallic paints so that it was totally invisible. It was, as you say, all to do with the amount, the lie of the flakes and the direction of light. The main issue is that "you know the crack is there". Your eyes are always drawn to it and so you notice it every time.
Take care because very soon you will be hooked and out there buying a compressor, a spray gun etc, etc ;D
That's pretty good Dave
I see the crack originated at a washer nozzle. Maybe worth opening out the holes slightly to allow for expansion.
Might prevent another crack
That is a pretty impressive repair for a crack on and see what I can do.
Adding to Daves washer jet have you got a bolt in one? Perhaps the nut is a fraction tight and pinching it as the area gets hot and expands.
Dave another demonstration of your skill set and resolve.
Hope you can find some shade to park in till the mini heat wave has passed on.
Thanks for the comments guys ;-)up
Most of the cracks do indeed seem to originate from where the washer jets are, but these are bonded in, not bolted, so there is precious little squashing there, although one of the cracks looks like it started mid bonnet and ended up at the jet a few hours later which was my thoughts about one medium stretching faster than the other - which is going to be interesting to see how Gel Coat moves alongside the Lacquer in the sunshine.
Will it stay bonded? or will it split and open up another split with different materials next to each other? - that's going to be an interesting one to watch.
Never thought of using a syringe though? Thats quite a challenge for me anyway as I have only just overcome being "Needlephobic" in the last few years (what with Liz spending so much time in hospital) and I can now at least pick up a syringe, but never thought about using it in that way. I might just try that one anyway as a bit of familiarization though.
Bonded in may be the problem as assuming it is metal it will expand and contract fast in sun putting stress on the hole.
I would bolt in with a rubber or fibre washer each side, a slightly oversized hole and a touch of thread lock so you don't over tighten
I'd be happy with that repair!
Top Job Dave ;-)up
Free holiday in the lakes when you do mine. Great result ;-)up
Quote from: pepsi81 on June 15, 2018, 03:08:42 PM
Free holiday in the lakes when you do mine.
Yep - If you you see it for real then I probably do deserve to be thrown in a pond ::)
;D
Bet it's still a good job ;-)up
Apparently there was some sort of sporting event on last weekend, and it meant that going anywhere public would be like entering a war zone, so I decided to do some clearing up in the garage, or at least that was the initial intention. I found some lengths of galvanized electrical conduit, the stuff you hide cable in the walls with and had a mad idea.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018014.jpg)
Because I had also found a box of waterproof high intensity (SMD 5050) green led's from when I was messing about a few years back with lighting up the engine bay.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018015.jpg)
The shape and size of the Led's fitted almost perfectly inside the shaped conduit channel, and a few hits with a grinder and a file opened up some holes.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018016.jpg)
A quick splash of paint and some glue, and it was time to fit them in place into the side channels of the chassis.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018018.jpg)
The bolts I had used to secure the bodyshell were quite long, and allowed an extra nut to be fitted to hold these in place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018017.jpg)
Connect up a 12v supply via a switch and "hey presto !"
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018019.jpg)
Apparently there is another sporting event this week, so I might get some free time to make up the other side to match
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/mates3.gif)
Dave that's brilliant! Funnily enough I think I've got some conduit at the back of the garage too. Do you mind if I nick that idea? No idea what the best leds - any pointers please?
Yes Dave that's pretty.
I went for a walk down the lanes last Saturday and it was eerily quiet.
You might get invited to lead out the forthcoming victory celebrations...
Quote from: Zip Buggy on July 10, 2018, 01:09:46 AM
Do you mind if I nick that idea? No idea what the best leds - any pointers please?
The whole reason for posting it is to inspire madness into others as well ;D
If looking on the net for LEDs, 99% of what you see will claim to be waterproof when they really are not, so I would be looking for something that is completely encapsulated with 12v wires coming out the back (I used 10 on each side) and certainly not the conventional ChineBay open strips that are cut to length. LED technology moves fast, and whilst the latest generation of "COB" is certainly the brightest (easily identified as they have a bright yellow coating on them, where others are clear), the colour range is not quite there yet which is why I went for the 5050 ones. If you want a quick crash course on the LED strips, then this page was quite good - but it must be stressed that these are the types of strips to be avoided in wet areas.
https://www.flexfireleds.com/pages/Comparison-between-3528-LEDs-and-5050-LEDs.html
If searching on the net for them, try "
SMD 5050 12v LED Module "
Quote from: Dave DND on July 10, 2018, 07:47:29 AM
Quote from: Zip Buggy on July 10, 2018, 01:09:46 AM
Do you mind if I nick that idea? No idea what the best leds - any pointers please?
The whole reason for posting it is to inspire madness into others as well ;D
If looking on the net for LEDs, 99% of what you see will claim to be waterproof when they really are not, so I would be looking for something that is completely encapsulated with 12v wires coming out the back (I used 10 on each side) and certainly not the conventional ChineBay open strips that are cut to length. LED technology moves fast, and whilst the latest generation of "COB" is certainly the brightest (easily identified as they have a bright yellow coating on them, where others are clear), the colour range is not quite there yet which is why I went for the 5050 ones. If you want a quick crash course on the LED strips, then this page was quite good - but it must be stressed that these are the types of strips to be avoided in wet areas.
https://www.flexfireleds.com/pages/Comparison-between-3528-LEDs-and-5050-LEDs.html
If searching on the net for them, try " SMD 5050 12v LED Module "
Thanks for this Dave. I have to admit this subject seems more complex than I thought. I want to use leds on the buggy and the bus but am struggling to understand the differences between the various types. Will need to try and get to grips with it.
Quote from: Zip Buggy on July 10, 2018, 06:09:52 PM
I want to use leds on the buggy and the bus but am struggling to understand the differences between the various types. Will need to try and get to grips with it.
Its far easier than you think - give me a yell at some point and I`ll talk you through it ;)
Quote from: Dave DND on July 10, 2018, 07:14:20 PM
Quote from: Zip Buggy on July 10, 2018, 06:09:52 PM
I want to use leds on the buggy and the bus but am struggling to understand the differences between the various types. Will need to try and get to grips with it.
Its far easier than you think - give me a yell at some point and I`ll talk you through it ;)
Thanks Dave, you're a diamond.
Since her operation, one of the things Lisa sometimes struggles with, is looking directly behind us to see the convoy of Buggies that are following and it got me thinking that this could be easily solved by adding one of those little mirrors like they have for driving instructors.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018020.jpg)
And tucked up behind the main interior mirror means that it doesn`t really affect my line of vision either.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018021.jpg)
If you carry passengers on a regular basis, then this £5 add on could make their Buggy trips even more enjoyable too ;-)up
Apparently something was going on this evening . . . (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/mates3.gif)
So it gave me a good chance for some peace and quiet in the garage to finish off the other side of my lights
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2018022.jpg)
The trouble is, that I now want even more 8)
Luvvie. Think I'll try and get purple ones.
Looks good, is there going to be a national shortage of green leds in the near future as the illumination developes.
Love it 😍
Wow.
Seems something creative and impressive happened last night which didn't involve screaming at a TV.
Makes me think that engine lights actually have a practical function should you break down at night and want to see where the problem and work on it without needing to hold a torch.
Or you could sit at
Sorry posted to quick should read you could follow the convoy and let your good lady see it in front of her.
Nice lighting although.
Quote from: manxmad on July 12, 2018, 08:07:25 PM
Sorry posted to quick should read you could follow the convoy and let your good lady see it in front of her.
If we all do that we'll never get going. :D
8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Dave i've found your new super secret ignition key,
(https://i.imgur.com/X6Tj4vk.jpg)
;D
Pah! Thats nothing compared to the Stainless Underwater ones that have just turned up here :D
(http://beachbuggy.info/Pics/Junk/pontoon1.jpg)
Quote from: Dave DND on July 13, 2018, 05:20:27 PM
;D
Pah! Thats nothing compared to the Stainless Underwater ones that have just turned up here :D
(http://beachbuggy.info/Pics/Junk/pontoon1.jpg)
Those look very interesting Dave, where did you find this animal?
They are underwater Boat lights for the "Gin Palace's" - looked interesting, so I bought a few for a play
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-5-Stainless-Steel-27LED-Green-Underwater-Pontoon-Marine-Boat-Transom-Lights/292554711295?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Quote from: Dave DND on July 13, 2018, 05:35:15 PM
They are underwater Boat lights for the "Gin Palace's" - looked interesting, so I bought a few for a play
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-5-Stainless-Steel-27LED-Green-Underwater-Pontoon-Marine-Boat-Transom-Lights/292554711295?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
I like those. If I could find a purple one it'd be just the job.
Purple is the future yellow 👍
Its been a while since I needed to do any repairs to my Buggy, but there has been a job looming on the cards for a while now.
As you may or may not know, my Alternator fell off in Holland whilst waiting for the ferry, and it was quickly fixed over here using one of the earlier brackets I had when mocking it all up. Time, however, to try and do a proper repair.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2019001.jpg)
Looking at the stainless bracket that fractured, it hardly looks as if there was any weld penetration at all and I am surprised that it has been on there for the last few years without a previous incident. However, the two surfaces looked really clean and mated together perfectly, so it gave me an idea.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2019002.jpg)
Following my MIG welding course I did a while back, Lisa bought me a TIG welder for my birthday and as I cannot find anyone around here to teach me how to use it, I have been messing about with little bits and trying to teach myself how it all works. This was the first piece I have attacked in anger, so just bear that in mind before laughing at the state of it. Rough as it is, its still better than the crap weld that my mate Bill did that failed.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2019003.jpg)
Once the welds have been cleaned up and polished, it didn`t look too bad, besides, its difficult to see it on the car anyway. The belts all lined up perfectly and better still, a quick thrash around the block and the belt was still in place when I returned.
Looks sufficiently blingy to me and also 'solid'.
Well done on some original repair work.
What are the opening hours of DND Welding Services and do they have National 24 hour call out capabilities ?
Hey Dave
Have you checked out YouTube and looked at The Fabrication Series ? Guys knows his stuff and runs through many aspects of TIG welding, and machine set ups etc.
Quote from: simon-dubman on September 03, 2019, 03:22:01 PM
Have you checked out YouTube and looked at The Fabrication Series ? Guys knows his stuff and runs through many aspects of TIG welding, and machine set ups etc.
Not seen that series as yet, but will search it out and have a look ;-)up
Time to do something drastic with my Buggy.
As many of you know my front suspension has been getting worse and worse over the years, the beam has been welded within an inch of its life, the bearings are all seized, the leafs have cracked, the shocks are those awful blister carded ones and tha steering box is so sloppy that I look like BA from the A-Team when driving down the road. Farmer Rob told me many years ago that mine was the worst Buggy he had ever driven, but like everyone else, we just grin when we drive and don`t really care about the quirks.
I didn't get out in it much last year, but when we did, it was getting very obvious that despite the smiles, my partner, Lisa was suffering from being shaken about too much and although she has never admitted it, I could tell that her brain injuries were now meaning that the enjoyment was fading. I decided back in the summer of 1999 that the car would be taken off the road for this year and I would find a way to make the ride acceptable. As much as I would just love to hunker down in the garage for a few weeks, I just don't have the time - this was going to be a long term project.
I was looking at various options from replacing everything with like for like, and the Lime Bug front beam was near the top of the list. Unlike most of the others out there, the build quality is excellent, but it fell short of the mark for me as all of the other ancillaries are still made of cheese. I started looking at some of the alternatives. The Red9 that Gary has on the front of his was discounted immediately, not because of the stories you hear, but because the steering rack is placed right at the front, and thats ultimately where one day I may want to fit a radiator if I ever get round to a Subaru conversion. The Mendola one looked good at first, but reading the forums, it has so many bad reviews that I thought I would give it a wide berth. Unknown to many of you, I was working with Ed from Pie Valleys (think awesome over engineered Bug Chassis you always see in the Manufacturer Halls at Stoneleigh) with many diagrams, technical suggestions and the like, with the intention of getting a bolt on alternative to the Red9 released into the UK. I even managed to get Dave Fisher involved to back it. So you appreciate how excited I have been for this top secret venture to materialize and I have been hanging on and hanging on to see what would happen. The Prototype was unveiled at Stoneleigh last year and thats when I decided to take my car off the road to do something. I was utterly devastated with what I saw - the prototype was left hand drive because it was cheaper to build and 12 months later, despite further conversations, nothing useable has come forward and I have now sadly given up waiting for it as I want my Buggy back on the road.
So, what of the ultra sexy looking one from iMohr that we keep seeing from Brazil? The reviews have been awesome but it still has 2 major drawbacks, the first being that it is in Brazil and the second is that it is also only made as Left Hand Drive. Credit where credit is due though, and I have sent many emails over the last few months to Ricardo at iMohr, and his assistance and technical replies have always been very good and easy to understand even though I suspect he may be using a translator. The email he sent me at the start of the year though got me quite wishful - he had now manufactured a right hand drive solution using the steering rack from an Opel Chevette (whatever that is).
https://imohr.com.br/en/products/7/vw-beetle-double-aarm-front-suspension--str--rhd
(https://imohr.com.br/system/php/wideimage/images.php?arquivo=filemanager/files/produtos_fotos_229_632_1550857040.jpg&largura=1024&altura=1024)
The suspension package itself was advertised at a shade over $1800 dollars plus shipping and from the excellent communications they informed me that it could be shipped as 3 cardboard boxes at 18Kg each or as a 1200 x 600 pallet. Shipping prices from Brazil can be quite volatile though and over the recent month and most quotes have near doubled. There are some out there who know a few back doors and means for shipping to avoid import duties etc, such as throwing it in the boot of another vehicle coming over or spare space in an existing container etc etc, a bit like our humpers and dumpers on here, but being such a high value item I decided not to go down this route and only deal with people I felt comfortable with.
With my job, I am used to importing parts from around the world and am fortunate enough to have accounts with most of the courier companies out there. With a RHD option now endlessly buzzing in my mind, I even found myself ringing a few of them for quotes to get it collected and I was a bit surprised at the same answer that everyone gave me - Contact the Country direct for a quote. Normally I would ask my Sales Account person here for a quote, log in to my account, enter the collection address and Bingo - parcel on its way, but not this time - for some reason, none of the logistics companies could quote for me paying at my end for a collection. I contacted Ricardo and asked for an actual quote for shipping, to which the answer came back of fully insured at 900 bucks. Yes, it was expensive - buts its also 55 kilos of weight. At least I now had a firm figure to play with.
It was difficult to watch TV at the beginning of March 2020 without the same "Word" being used over and over again in every sentence, and that word of BREXIT seems so long ago now. There was a talk of a trade deal between the UK and the USA and I wondered what the exchange rate would be. I discovered that when logging onto my Barclays bank account that you could watch live data of the international currency prices and you could select and hold an exchange rate to make a transaction, and then look at it again a few minutes later to see if you had done it at the right time. I found myself playing this as a game late at night and became captivated as to how much the currencies fluctuated, which ultimately meant saving money. In my mind, I was going to wait until we had a trade deal and that would be the time to do it, but events got in the way. Whilst playing one night I could see the value of the dollar plummeting and every time I clicked the button, the following rate was even lower - something was happening, something serious was going on - no idea what though. the price of getting this thing here was getting better and better, and when the dollar price resulted in an equivalent of £2150 in pounds, I hit the button for real - Replacing everything like for like would not be far off that, so this was now a viable option. Unbeknown to me, the US stockmarket actually crashed and ceased trading one hour later and it became known as "Black Monday".
The money had been transferred to iMohr - Had I done this right? Had he got it it? What would happen next?
Ricardo sent me an email a few hours later (time zone delay) and confirmed that all was well and he would prepare the units for shipping.
Sit back and wait I guess and hope nothing goes wrong.
:-X
Brave move Dave, however i must admit, its looks like a great piece of kit... ;-)up
Does look amazing doesn't it? The countless reviews I have seen also back this up ;-)up
Talk about timing though ::)
The word BREXIT has now been replaced by COVID-19 and the World has become a crazy place. I cannot fathom if I did this at the right time or not, but the Global Stockmarkets crashed big time just after I did this and I have no idea if I would have saved or lost any more. But at the end of the day I was happy with the price I paid and with the wrong exchange rate, its viability would have been seriously limited.
Ricardo did email me to say he had shipped this as 3 parcels and the good news is that the Tracking shows them to have now landed somewhere in the UK. I opted for the 900 dollar express shipping option rather than a slow boat, and with hindsight, I'm so glad that I did. The Couriers are still operational around here, so fingers still crossed that I may still possibly have something to play with over the next six months or so whilst in isolation.
:-\
I for one look forward to seeing this on your buggy. All the best ;-)up
Looks intriguing Dave. I look forward to reading your performance report.
Dave, hope it goes well. If okay perhaps you may become a U.K. supplier :-\
Hopefully it will get through the customs side quickly and get despatched you have to 3 boxes arrive hopefully together.
Their 2 minute video instruction clip on Youtube make it look very easy to fit - and well worth a watch, even if its not for you
www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Junk/imohr.mp4
I will be retaining my original hubs and brake setup and running at stock ride height, and they have sent me 300lb coil overs which are lighter than the Beetle ones for the lighter front end. I have not yet fathomed out things like how the petrol tank will clear this - but I need a new one anyway, so will probably get one custom made, and I have to start over with the steering column setup as obviously the rack is in a different place.
I do like a challenge though, and as always will bore you all stupid with my progress on here ;)
Dave..... Watch out for customs... Keep an eye on the tracking info. Should end up in Heathrow customs area at which point you will see the request for import duty payment requirement. As a guide the last item I purchased in the £2000 + bracket required a duty payment of just under £300 pounds before it was released. Payment on-line as you would expect.. Looking forward to the thread continuation for the front end fitment. Take care Paul ;-)up ;-)up
That all looks pretty astonishing ;-)up
It will be very interesting to see how things go when it arrives.
I treated myself to some new binoculars recently, mine had literally been used to death over
40 years and the customs charge was a little higher than I had anticipated, however I do
like to be driven more by quality with some things and it was worth paying :)
I hope all arrives soon and that we can see what its all about in a step by step guide to fitting!
Peter ;-)up
Dave you are giving your front end a top dollar make over, you cannot neglect your rear end, not that there's anything wrong with it ..... ;) ;)
Just saw this on Imohr's website...
(https://i.imgur.com/J6ZjK7o.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yDTR9Zr.jpg)
WOW.... wish I had a little more than just a pittance of a pension..... Looking at the rear end it has coil springs.... Wonder if you throw away the torsion bars ;D ;D or are they used as location points and do you "wind up" the torsion bars also ??? Mind boggling....
Front first . . . ;)
. . . But when I get around to the Scooby lump and start messing at the rear - Who knows? :-\
That means you've already thought about.
Go for it Dave 👍
Talk about timing ::)
And now we are in COVID-19 lockdown and panic has set in throughout the Country. Checking the three tracking numbers, 2 of them seem to be updating fairly regularly, so I guess that means movement of some sort, but as I am tracking them through the Brazilian Courier there is a language barrier that I cannot seem to translate very well. If I am interpreting this right though, two of the parcels have been released to a UK Courier and I would guess Royal Mail or maybe Parcelforce? That would be good as at least they are still operational for sure.
Third parcel seems to be held at Customs with no movement. :(
:-\
I had that before Dave. 1 order shipped over 2 boxes.
You might find you will receive a customs request form to detail the value and contents of the box so they can tax you on it.
I ended up having to email the original company to get split invoices for each shipment.
Have you tried putting the tracking number, you got from Brazil, into the ParcelFarce website?
I`m used to doing this Gordon, I ship and collect a lot of stuff around the world, so no panic.
From experience, it is not uncommon for tracking numbers to alter and change as they move from country to country and the tracking number issued by one courier will never work with another one - so it is always best to track the number from the source as that will usually show the progress (albeit without telling you the logistics identity) of its whereabouts. International shippers like UPS or DPD quite often are easier to track across the world with the same number. Also, from experience, when a US shipping company delivers to the UK, it is not unusual for the parcel to be picked up by Parcelforce on behalf of the Royal Mail and DHL seem to pick up most of the China stuff.
FYI, there is a technical loophole that is often used to get around import duty. Multiple boxes are always advised as it is not uncommon for some to get through unchecked, and the value of the ones that do get inspected is always therefore lower - that said, its always advisable to have one large invoice showing multiple boxes (else you get a physical handling charge as well on each consignment) but if one box is opened on its own without the others present, I have found that the import duty can often be Pro-Rata than of the whole consignment. I think they are uneasy about charging import duty for a whole consignment when only one lower value box is presented in front of them, as the value of charge does not add up to the value of what they are inspecting. Its a bit of a gamble, but worst case scenario, I get hit with import duty and charges.
2 boxes showing movement, one still at Customs
Not quite what I was expecting :-X
I`ll confess that I have been watching these tracking numbers very carefully of late, especially as some countries are now closing land borders, the planes are not flying and the boats are being refused berths. I'm just so glad that they are indicated as being in the UK. Brazil has been on the news too, so if they had not been shipped when I ordered these, they certainly would not have been shipped now.
I know that the majority of the sorting depots are under pressure at the moment due to staff absences and I am ok with that, especially as unlike most of you out there, I am still working and don`t really need this for another month or so when it gets a bit warmer.
Today though, I had a delivery from Parcelforce, but only one box. :-\
The good news though was that it contained the complete "Right Side" of the suspension. Looks to be good quality with good welds - Pleased so far ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2019004.jpg)
The second parcel is still showing as being in Transit but the third parcel seems to still be held at Customs with no movement. :-\
I just hope that someone is still working there, else the third parcel may take a while
:(
You ordered RHD, so the srcond box will also have the right had side set up.
Got you worried now, eh?
(It'll be fine, probably)
if box 2 is the centre piece you can do a trike buggy until the 3rd arrives, looks fine in the photos.
Just a question if I may.
I have watched the assembly video and would like to know, when the attachment bracket
is slipped into place and bolted to the new assembly at the rear, nearest the napoleons hat,
is it then welded in place up and over the frame where it sits ?
Just wondering thats all :)
Peter
No welding Peter, just two holes to drill for the lower fixings - I may well end up doing a bit of reinforcement though where the bolts are, but I am assured that it is not necessary.
Maybe this picture helps?
(https://i.postimg.cc/Z9W1qwc2/Tiago-Dias-MG.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z9W1qwc2)
Looks sexy 💋 What about steering alignment. Looking at 2x UJs 🤷🏻♂️
Paul
Not thought as far as steering column yet as need to see what I am working with rack wise first.
Dave,
You've mentioned a custom petrol tank. What you planning. Pretty sure mine has developed a leak, I've a central filler 🤷🏻♂️
Appreciate any comments.
Paul
Speak with Alan on here as he has a mate who makes custom tanks ;-)up
Today I saw the Parcelforce van pull up outside and another large box emerged - and when I saw it, my heart sunk :'(
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2020001.jpg)
I opened up the parcel, quite fearful of what I might find and the first thing that emerged was a letter from Parcelforce saying that they had repackaged the goods as the box had been damaged in transit upon entering the Country. Well, if this was the replacement box then it beggars belief as to how bad the initial box had been. The parts inside were very well wrapped in iMohr packaging and save for one sharp edge that had gone through the box, all appeared to be ok. Thankfully it had been shipped with the screws in place, so they were all present and correct. There were a couple of blister cards that had split, but the nuts and washers were inside. More importantly, this one also contained the instructions. Phew !
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2020002.jpg)
From this I could now deduce what was in the final parcel - the steering rack. It was still showing at customs though. No idea then if, when, how or ever will it arrive, but I am still not ready to fit this yet, so have a bit more time yet before worrying about it. Worst case scenario, I`ll adapt a rack to fit - at least I have the important bit and it looks complete now.
8)
Looks good Dave, great isle a least had part arrived. I'll txt Allan.
Pauk
I had a letter drop on the doorstep today, it was a bit of a bittersweet one though.
It was a Customs bill for £120 along with a parcel reference for my missing item.
At last, it would seem that someone was actually still working in the office - there is indeed light at the end of this tunnel. :D
To be honest, I was half expecting a bigger bill, but for the Customs handling, Parcelforce handling, all fees, duties and vat etc, £120 didn't actually seem that bad.
I went online with the reference numbers and a credit card and hopefully they will now release it to me.
Under normal circumstances, paying a Customs bill online usually means a swift delivery - but we shall see :-\
Sounds like a lucky break there with only £120, I had a much larger bill on my last shipment of a similar value
Quote from: Roadrunner on April 07, 2020, 11:42:14 AM
Sounds like a lucky break there with only £120, I had a much larger bill on my last shipment of a similar value
Shipping in multiple boxes usually works ;)
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
Today saw the delivery of a box
All of my parts from Brazil have now arrived :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2020003.jpg)
Going to be a while before this is tackled though as I have just started a full dash swap on my T4 with a few modifications along the way, but at least its all here now and I can stop panicking and start plotting instead
;-)up
Good all had arrived
;-)up ;-)up
Was wondering... See it utilises berms to allow rack to clear frame head.
I think there would be a market here in the UK for this sort of thing especially right hand drive.
Dave ... just curious.? The duty you were charged is 50% less than I expected. My experience has gone like this... Prior to 911 packages from abroad were subject to random selection for duty and anything up to £32 was exempt.
Post 911 things changed re- selection for scanning, as you would expect. From then on the basic system that I experienced was that large items came into Heathrow and once through customs went via Parcel Force and letters, small packages via Royal Mail. In addition you have UPS and the other carriers with their own systems but still going through customs. The seller would raise documentation for say UPS for example. Fill in the details, value etc and therefore the "gift" option disappeared. The value you put on the document was the value the item was insured to via carrier so it was silly to put incorrect value. Carrier would collect package and completed document and your item was in the system. All packages then scanned for content and duty charged according to stated value....
I am just wondering what you think allows multiple packaging to have an apparentl low duty charge. Is it that the customs document is on one of a multiple package only ?
Quote from: Paul1953 on April 09, 2020, 08:55:12 AM
Dave ... just curious.? The duty you were charged is 50% less than I expected. My experience has gone like this... Prior to 911 packages from abroad were subject to random selection for duty and anything up to £32 was exempt.
I am just wondering what you think allows multiple packaging to have an apparentl low duty charge. Is it that the customs document is on one of a multiple package only ?
In my experience (and important that this is experience only) I have found that if shipping is split over multiple packages with the full consignment value invoice being included in every package, but also indicating that the shipment is split, then they only seem to(!) apply taxes on a pro rata basis per box as all packages are never in view at the same time. This seems to have happened again. They only seem to charge duty on the packages that have been "inspected" and not on those that slip through the net. Larger high value imports get clobbered every time as they will charge on what is presented. Had the boxes shown an individual and separate invoice in each one, then I would have been expecting 3 customs bills, one for each parcel. It appears to be a bit of a loophole, but one worth exploiting whilst you can.
;)
Quote from: Paul1953 on April 09, 2020, 08:55:12 AM
Was wondering... See it utilises berms to allow rack to clear frame head.
I think there would be a market here in the UK for this sort of thing especially right hand drive.
Agree - I think this could be a bit of a game changer
Just hope I'm right :-X
I ordered a part from Taiwan 2 months ago and although at £240 it was a lot cheaper than your purchase I worked out how much duty I would have to pay from the relevant information online, when the bill arrived it was a good deal less than I was expecting, shipping was done by UPS and duty payment was made them. The duty payment was £13 and a few pence plus a small brokerage fee to UPS
The duty payment was £13 and a few pence plus a small brokerage fee to UPS
It looks like this is as variable as dvla convolutions.... UPS is by far my preferred courier despite being a little more expensive for the larger items.
This is a true thing..... Once ordered a £2000+ package from the US and seller would only accept UPS as courier. The tracking and email system showed the item being collected from the seller at 11am on Day 1.... 2 days later, and just before noon UPS pulled up outside my house with the item. I don`t see how this could be improved upon delivery wise.
Quote from: Paul1953 on April 09, 2020, 02:14:25 PM
It looks like this is as variable as dvla convolutions.... UPS is by far my preferred courier despite being a little more expensive for the larger items.
This is a true thing..... Once ordered a £2000+ package from the US and seller would only accept UPS as courier. The tracking and email system showed the item being collected from the seller at 11am on Day 1.... 2 days later, and just before noon UPS pulled up outside my house with the item. I don`t see how this could be improved upon delivery wise.
Like most things - you often get the service you pay for - UPS charge top dollar, and worth every bit of it ;)
https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty
Tax and duty
You'll be contacted by Royal Mail, Parcelforce or the courier company explaining how to pay any VAT, duty and fees for dealing with customs.
They'll normally hold your parcel for about 3 weeks. If you haven't paid the fee by then, it'll be sent back.
VAT
You pay VAT on goods sent from non-European Union (EU) countries and EU special territories (eg the Canary Islands) if they're:
gifts worth more than £39
other goods worth more than £15
alcohol, tobacco products and fragrances (eg perfume, eau de toilette and cologne) of any value
You have to pay VAT on all goods sent by mail order from the Channel Islands no matter what their value.
You'll be charged at the VAT rate that applies to your goods. VAT is charged on the total value, including:
the price paid for the goods
postage, packaging and insurance
any duty you owe
Customs Duty
You'll be charged Customs Duty on gifts and other goods sent from outside the EU if they're above a certain value.
The value includes:
the price paid for the goods
postage, packaging and insurance
Type and value of goods
Customs Duty
Anything under £135
No charge
Gifts worth £135-£630
2.5%, but rates are lower for some goods - call the helpline
Gifts above £630 and other goods above £135
The rate depends on the type of goods and where they came from - call the helpline
So buying outside the EU try and keep each 'gift' package below £135
I too like UPS. Mainly because the people driving the trucks that bring the items have always been particularly friendly, professional and capable.
I seem to have unknowingly found myself on a quest over the years to fit every conceivable crap version of LED indicator in the vague attempt that it will work in the sunlight - so far I have failed, as many who follow me will confirm.
I know what many of you will say, and that is why do I not stick to good old fashioned filament bulbs? Well the answer is simple - my rear lights leak like a sieve and every time I put the car away when it is wet, the contacts of the lights will have corroded by the time I want to take it out again. I even tried soldering the bulbs in place to no avail - so waterproof LED's are what I usually play with
With the sun shining, I thought I would have another play with something different, and this time I am going to try the High intensity LED lights that are sold for Motorcycles under the generic name of "Eagle Eye"
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2020005.jpg)
These lights come in various colours, so you can use them for sidelights and fog lights as well, but I have gone for the amber ones here. Each unit is supposed to be waterproof (although I have applied an extra layer of sealant on them) and they contain 12 Cob Led's under a magnifying lens.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2020006.jpg)
And with the lens back on, this actually looks quite promising. The sun is shining high in the sky and there is no mistaking the fact that a yellow glow can be seen from the lights in broad daylight.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2020007.jpg)
The bulbs are supplied as 12v ready and all I have done is join them all up together. As with any LED indicator, a 5.6 Ohm 50 Watt
resistor is connected across them to ensure that they flash at the right speed. Cost? Those ten led's only cost me six quid from eBay.
;-)up
Dave.
I have played with the high brightness red Cob LEDs for my daughters totrod (long way away from being built).
I connected 2 positives to the LED one with a resistor in line and the other without and they work brilliantly for brake and tail feeds. (Brake without resistor and tail with)
Was thinking along the same lines - but will certainly try the 470 Ohm resistor you mentioned in line and see what results I get
Cheers ;-)up
I`m almost ashamed to say that my Buggy has only done 11 miles in the last 2 years, and that was only to take it to the MOT station last August. I had all intentions of rebuilding it 2 years back, and what with my father passing away, Covid, sorting out Mum`s house, putting a new roof on my own house, any available time I have had between working has been spent finishing off my T4. I was on the shortlist for a minor Op pre Lockdown 1, and received a call the other day that I am undergoing surgery on Thursday, which means exceptionally strict isolation until then.
So I decided that I would do something on my own and go and get my Buggy back from my Parents house where it has been sitting neglected for the last year under a cover. I charged the Battery, took off the cover and pressed the starter button fearing the worst. My Buggy wants to come out and play for sure as it burst into life on the second press of the button. I would love to say that the drive back home was lovely, but it wasn't - it was awful, and reminded me why I had put it away all that time ago. Was nice to see it out in the sunshine though.
(https://i.postimg.cc/P5qT1x0H/P1030212.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/w7nCp664)
I have been tripping over that bloody front beam in my hallway for exactly a year now, and I`m just glad that Lisa cannot see it (another story), else she would have killed me. But now the Buggy is home the front beam conversion is hopefully now going to get underway.
Details to bore you all silly with, will follow soon ;-)up
Well cosmetically your buggy is looking great.
Far too sparkly not to be seen out and about.
Put that 'bloody front beam' where it belongs !
Take it steady after your op get fully recovered and then stuck into the front beam job properly but in the mean time a bit of spray painting parts of it in the house will be ok just tell Lisa it is therapeutic and aids recovery.
'Therapy' is a great idea. How about offering Lisa some street art like the large cat I saw in Cheltenham ?
Tell her you'd like to make it in tribute to her being such a friendly pussy cat or perhaps one isn't allowed to use such language these days...
I don`t think I need to be in any more trouble ;D
Finally . . . . Some progress . . . . (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
And this just might be the point of no return, as the Buggy is now being stripped down for its latest transformation. Pretty much most of what you see here will be changed or heavily modified in the quest to change the front end to a fully independent one, and possibly a few other little mods along the way.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030269.jpg)
;-)up
I'm sure you'll keep us in the loop.
How's the Subaru engine doing 🙈🤔
Ask me again when I see how much space I have up front for a Radiator after the front end has been done ;)
Time to remove the front beam.
This always sounds like a really daunting and difficult thing to do, but in reality, its far easier than you think. A Ball joint splitter is an invaluable tool here and makes light work of popping out the joints with minimal effort
I have removed the track rod arms and speedo cable here and have popped both the upper and lower stub axle joints.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030281.jpg)
The front suspension kit uses these stub axle carriers, so I have simply removed them and supported them on stands to make it quick and easy to refit them later. No point taking apart anything that does not need to be removed. I was quite shocked as to how tight the lower joints were - there was no movement in them at all and they almost felt seized, but then I guess if the suspension was working nicely then I would not be having to replace it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030282.jpg)
And now the beam itself. Because I am doing this on my own, I have put a trolley jack underneath the beam before the four bolts are removed.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030284.jpg)
A gentle tap with a hammer to break the seal of 15 years of being Hammerrited in place and the beam can be gently lowered to the ground. It really is as simple as that.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030287.jpg)
It is quite astonishing to think that this large piece of Chassis and suspension is only held in place by four bolts, and they are of a very low Torque setting too.
With the beam removed, its time to see what I have been left with, and its not exactly as I had planned. :(
Thankfully everything seems to be in good and healthy condition though, and I will certainly give it all a spruce up before I start rebuilding
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030291.jpg)
Over the last few months I have been deliberating how to fit a radiator and pipework up front, and it made sense to try and tackle some of this whilst the front of the car is dismantled. I have plotted and planned various routes for pipes, pumps, heaters, everything I could think of and I knew that changing the front suspension over would actually be the easy bit. But I think I now may be wrong.
This is the Drivers side part of the cradle, and every time I pick this up and move it about, I am quite impressed by the quality of the build. I know full well that when I offer it up that everything else will be in its way, and all the bits I have added over the years will end up having to be relocated - that is a given and I am sort of prepared for that.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030292.jpg)
I have mocked up various pipes and had planned to utilize every square inch of the space here and I thought I had found a way to squeeze everything in. A lot of space is taken up by the suspension and the steering rack is slightly larger than I was hoping. A new tank was on the cards anyway to incorporate the Subaru pump, and the washer bottle would be relocated. I thought I had it all worked out.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030289.jpg)
The problem that I am facing though, (and its my own fault for a measurement I did not think about), and its the square tubes on the suspension that the arms attach to. The arms are a little bit longer than I thought (I`m reliably informed that this is a good thing) but the size, well, actually the location of those square tubes themselves are about 1 inch further inwards on each side than I had planned for. I knew where the arms would pivot, but forgot that they have to be mounted to something. Now 1 inch may not sound much, but it does mean that what I was trying to do simply will not fit no matter how hard I try. It would appear that I am now losing so much space either side that there is just not enough room left for me to play.
Going to have to scratch my head for a solution to this one, but at the moment, the 2 most most viable solutions are to either retain the air cooled engine and ditch the Subaru conversion, or if I am to continue with the engine swap later, then I may have to rethink what I do with the front end instead.
Either way, a drastic decision now needs to be made :'(
Tight ball joints cause problems heavy steering and no self centring both along side a bouncy ride and no or reduced suspension dip under braking.
As for the radiator spacing you could go for a rat rod buggy with a beam extender to gain space it may be a first in the buggy world.
Dave, have you considered 2 smaller radiators one in each of the sidepods. Bit more plumbing but potentially pipes could run inside behind the seats to connect them together. Could use heater units as rads and even mount more than one in each pod ducting hot air out the bottom and to the back. Would need electric fans.
Main consideration would be is there enough cooling. Could use heater units at the front as well, they're pretty compact and come in loads of sizes. Get a selection from a scrapyard to try them out?
The Radiator itself is not so much of a problem - well if truth be told, I have not yet completely finalized the shape and size, but all of that will hopefully be in front of the beam anyway, and yes, there is the fall back of a couple of side mounted radiators like Joel has on his Buggy. I just had a completely different concept up my sleeve that I was hoping to achieve, but needed the space.
I have had another mad thought at the moment, but need to make some phone calls when workplaces are open next wek to see who is around.
Watch this space - Not given up yet ;)
28 or 35 mm copper pipes under the pan to a front radiator help with heat dispersal with the air flow under the car.
There is a lot more than two pipes and a radiator to contend with, and although not the same as mine, this brilliant picture that Wayne has just sent me of his Nova will give a rough idea of how much I am also trying to cram under the bonnet - and he didn't have a fuel tank on top of it all
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1hjj2pt/nova1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
You need a body change plenty of space here for the beetle tank and 205 gti radiator😉
(https://i.postimg.cc/8czfwh7M/1032-D578-98-DD-46-A8-AC98-06-FC3-D9078-A4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ft1bRSjR)
Quote from: snoopy on May 17, 2021, 10:15:11 AM
You need a body change
;D Don't even go there . . . . No . . Seriously . . . Just DON'T
I really don't want that idea in my head ;D ::)
Too late it is already there :D
Its been a few weeks now, so I thought I would update you with my solution.
After many phone calls and calling in some very large favours . . . . My Imohr front beam is up for grabs and I have decided not to use it
Brilliant bit of kit, but I am determined to get that Scooby lump in there and this just does not give me the space I was hoping for up front.
Plan B to follow, and what a Plan B it is !!
:D
I guess now its been posted online by Kingfisher Kustoms, the cat is out of the bag ;)
As previously mentioned, many many moons ago, I was having one of those mad conversations with Ed from Pie Valley Buggies and Dave Fisher about making something to go head to head with the Red9 front end. And both seemed really interested in the concept. I even spent countless hours bouncing drawings and ideas backwards and forwards with Ed, but eventually gave up suspecting that Ed was never going to build this and it would always be a constantly evolving engineering exercise - He always displays a Buggy Chassis at Stoneleigh. Brilliant engineering, but I don't recall ever seeing one on the road. It's almost certainly a Mk:107 version by now with a tweaked Mk:108 being drawn up as we speak (Mk:109 to follow).
:-X
However, I decided to ring up my mate Dave Fisher and asked if we could just build this bloody thing to which his unexpected reply was "Ok then, What Colour?"
And yesterday, I not only got to see it, but brought it home :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030346.jpg)
As you can see the arms are shorter than the Imohr and there is a lot more space inside to play with.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030354.jpg)
Eenie . . Meanie . .Miny . . Mo . . . The ones on each end have got to go ;D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030358.jpg)
Christ . . . . I hope this one works ::)
Haha, I saw the one on FB and nearly posted it looked like Hammerite blue.
Quote from: Buggybaggy on June 12, 2021, 08:03:27 AM
Haha, I saw the one on FB and nearly posted it looked like Hammerite blue.
Amazing how close RAL5019 Capri Blau can look to Hammerite Blue :D
I wonder how that could have happened ? ;D
The beam had been very quickly assembled prior to me picking it up just to check that everything was there and for a photo to be taken for their publicity. So the first thing I did when I got home was to strip it all down and make sure everything was as it seemed. I must have worn out a couple of tape measures that evening as I checked and measured and measured and checked because something did not seem quite right. Now I am fully aware that as one of the first people to play with this beam outside of Kingfisher Kustoms that there will undoubtedly be a few teething troubles - I have no issue with that as Dave Fisher and Ed have been brilliant with their support so far, but what I did spot made me chuckle a bit and left them a bit speechless too.
Spot the difference ::)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030386.jpg)
Unlike his Boss, I can't be too harsh on Ryan for putting these on as he made me a very nice cuppa when I was there. Still, those mismatched shocks were never going to work and after a quick phone call I received a matched pair of Gaz adjustable shocks (to be set near minimum of course) and Ed recommended using a pair of 8" springs that have been down rated to 175 lbs each to cope with the lighter weight of the Buggy.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030404.jpg)
Right then, time to put a beam on my car - Wish me luck ;D
Good spot Dave and easy fix although a slight leaning 'stance' to your buggys front end would give it individual personality making it easier to visually locate in a row of green buggys in the supermarket car park ?
When you see this beam up close, the first thing that hits you is the sheer quality of it. The pictures really do not do it any justice whatsoever. The standard of welding is absolutely impeccable and as a design and engineering concept, it has an awful lot going for it. Ok, it may not (yet) have the racing pedigree of the Imohr but there is no denying that it is indeed a thing of beauty, and the guy that commented about hanging it on his wall as a piece of art . . . I can totally get where you are coming from.
However, if I am brutally honest with my "Warts and All" build thread, whilst it is 99% there, that last one percent is going to be very hard and frustrating to get right. There are still a lot of unanswered questions along with quite a few differing replies from Ed, lots of things that do not fit and quite a bit that will still need to be fabricated. I have always expected this to be the case, after all, every Buggy is different.
But if you are looking to simply purchase this and fit it straight out of the box (as it is being inferred) then I think you may be a little frustrated, and may also question why it isn't a perfect fit given the higher cost of it over its rivals. But also bear in mind that any extra fabrication work required is probably no more than you would need to do with the Red9 or Imohr either - The biggest problem you will face is that unlike those two, there is nothing for you to look up on google just yet as no one else has fitted this, and I am going to have to make this up as I go along - Thankfully I have Ed and Dave on speed-dial if needed.
Bottom line: Is it better than its rivals? Looks like it may be. Is it worth the extra costs? HELL YES ! Is it easy to fit? Well, jury is out on that one at the moment, but read on . . . . .
Unlike the twin tubes of the original beam that lock into a cradle with four low torque bolts simply holding them in place, both the Red9 and Imohr have flat mounting plates at the front which I have always been a bit confused by. I have often wondered how a flat plate can be deemed as strong as the original when fitted against a curved surface with those four bolts now acting as the strength, but I now understand why they have done it.
Before I offer this up the car, its worth pointing out the vast variations in the height distance between the front of the frame head and the chassis. Before you all start typing that they should all be the same standard that VW made them, I will just reply with, ha ha, dream on, think again. Out of the factory were some incredibly wide tolerances, and with so many variations now in reworked, replaced and chopped about frame heads, the height difference can easily be around an inch. Because the original beam only has a mounting with four bolts at the front with the arms trailing behind it, this difference is seldom noticed - Split torsion springs, bent arms, knackered shocks, and most of us bugger about with suspension heights anyway, we just accept that some cars sit better than others. Its only when a frame is fitted with rear mountings to contend with that this height difference needs to be addressed. Don't worry if I have started to lose you at this stage, all should become clear very soon.
The Red9 and Imohr both bolt to the front frame head, and some elongated holes in those flat plates allow for a bit of wriggle room to compensate for the height differences. The Red9 fills any gaps that are left with a big bag of washers whereas the Imohr has a rear mounting welded in place so there are no gaps at all. So what of this new beam then? Well those two tubes fit perfectly into the cradle at the front, and are locked in place by the same four low torque bolts. The downside is that there is no adjustment whatsoever, no wriggle room, nothing - where it fits, it fits, and that is that. Its also a lot heavier than the others too, and it helps to have some supports or blocks to raise the rear if trying to fit this on your own.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030432.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030364.jpg)
And of course it goes without saying that everything I have ever bolted in place previously like the washer bottle and speedometer cable for instance, is now in the way and will have to be removed and relocated.
::)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030363.jpg)
The original beam has all its strength at the front where the torsion arms pivot, and because we now have some pivot points at the rear, some extra strength is required to prevent the suspension frame from being forced upwards and twisting the frame head. Both Red9 and Imohr have some extra bolts with large washers that are drilled through the flat metal either side, near where the uprights are for the brake pipes, and the Imohr goes one stage further by having a welded mount on the top of the tunnel too. Some real thought has gone into this unit though, as all of the strength is underneath and rather than pulling on a washer on a thin plate on the topside of the chassis, it uses the might of the structure of the chassis itself and pushes upwards against it. Its a brilliant solution that is far superior and stronger than any of the others. At the rear of this frame are two long bars that go back to the original body mounting points (no extra holes need to be drilled) but this added strength does come with an issue that needs to be resolved.
Now the longer these arms are, then the bigger the gap will be between the mounting plate and the underside of the chassis, and hopefully all that babbling I went on about will now make sense. With no adjustments available, this gap as you can see is quite large (18mm). Now I am not keen on just filling this with washers like the others do, and I think that something more "Bespoke" needs to be fabricated and would certainly be more in keeping with the high standards so far. I suggested to Ed that a thick spacer plate should be offered as part of the kit, and he is now getting a range of them laser cut and manufactured in various thicknesses to offer for sale. Sure, its a bit of a compromise, but well worth it given the extra strength that will be achieved. I`ll come back to this when the plates arrive.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030371.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030374.jpg)
I am actually quite pleased by this too, as I have always suspected that my chassis may be a bit twisted, but these two bars are not only perfectly horizontal, but have exactly the same 18mm gap under them at either side.
;-)up
Couple of questions Dave before I get my wallet out
You say it's heavier. Is it much heavier than the original beam? How does it connect to the steering column? UJs I assume but welded or splined?
Cheers
Dave
Quote from: Doon L001 on June 21, 2021, 07:03:27 PM
You say it's heavier. Is it much heavier than the original beam? How does it connect to the steering column? UJs I assume but welded or splined?
Probably not that much heavier than the original beam, (weighs a ton compared to the Imohr though) felt about the same moving it about, but heavy enough to be awkward trying to ft it on my own, but that was more about trying to balance it whilst getting the bolts in. As for steering, not quite solved that yet but suspect some splined u/j's as they are easier to work with than welded ones and shortening the shaft to suit somehow. Hoping to tackle that fairly soon.
Looks a good fit and using the tube mounts as per original is a sensible idea.
Quote from: snoopy on June 21, 2021, 08:34:19 PM
Looks a good fit and using the tube mounts as per original is a sensible idea.
I have a feeling that once these minor niggles are sorted, this beam is going to take the VW world by storm ;)
The ball joints are all original VW parts, which is good in one respect as they are easily obtainable if you ever need a replacement, but I am hoping that they are not going to follow the usual aftermarket ball joint trait of being rock solid and non-moveable. (From that read - stiff ball joints can mean that self centering may be compromised until they wear in a little.) The camber adjuster has been replaced by this set of sleeved fittings, and rather than twisting that camber nut with the rusty arrow, it should hopefully be a lot easier to adjust by means of moving the thread on the top joint in and out.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030381.jpg)
It was important to me to retain the original stub axles and disc carrier too. There was a period a few years back where aftermarket axles seemed to be snapping on a regular basis due to being made of cheese, and I just didn't fancy that. My discs fitted just perfectly. Starting to look a bit more familiar now.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030382.jpg)
I have been asked if I could provide some technical data on this, and this was the reply from Ed.
Castor angle is fixed at 8 degrees
Camber (Initial setting) is around 1/2 to 1 Degree
Toe is zero - mildly toe out
Torque Settings
Wishbones = 50nm = 36 ft lbs
Beam Support = 36nm = 26 ft lbs
Shocks = 88nm = 65 ft lbs
Ball Joints = 51nm = 38 ft lbs
The supplied steering rack support bar makes no sense to me at all. There is obviously a right and wrong way to fit this judging by the irregular shape and I am reliably informed that the lower radius is to go over the top of the tunnel. Ed is very pleased with this panel, but I just don`t understand why a frilly decorative laser cut panel that will be completely obscured by the steering rack has any place on this rufty tufty suspension. No, I just don't get this bit at all. Sorry Ed, but I have no idea what you were smoking when you came up with this bit.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030409.jpg)
Time to lay it all out and see how it is all going to fit in there. The steering rack is taken from an old classic Mini and they are still plentiful to get hold of. My Buggy has always shared some key components from the Mini, from the original headlights to "allegedly" the curved windscreen as well. Looks like it is going to be tight in there.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030387.jpg)
We seem to have a bit of a problem here. When I first saw the mock up of this, Ed had designed the input shaft of the steering box pointing upwards, knowing that universal joints could be used for the steering. Now I have never been happy with this vertical angle as it means the steering shaft is fast approaching 90 degrees, which is not good. If the angle is too great, the joints will lock up instead of turning and if the angle is too small, the column would pass through the bulkhead much further down. If any of you have driven an old Vauxhall Corsa with big feet, you will know this to be a problem as the low steering joints can physically knock your feet from the pedals if braking and steering at the same time. My initial plan was to simply rotate the box a little on the U-Bolts and find a happy compromise, but as you can see, the large lump of a gearbox on the rear of the rack hits the mounting bar, meaning this rack position is firmly fixed with the shaft near vertical. The initial brief was also to be able to utilize the Master Cylinder Reservoir modification that many of us have now adopted, but there is no way that you can get to the cap to remove it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030375.jpg)
The eagle eyed amongst you may have spotted another clearance issue too, as whilst this is all assembled you may notice that I cannot get the bolts into the mounting bar as everything is resting on top of the brake reservoir. That's a fairly easy one to sort out and just means reverting back to a remote location for the reservoir, just as Volkswagen had originally intended.
::)
The brake pipe was pulled over to one side (yes, I will replace it later) the brake reservoir was drained using a syringe and then removed. I have connected two low pressure hoses to the outlets and will have to figure out where to relocate it at a later date. The reason I used this reservoir was due to not having much room on the bulkhead in the first place..
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030410.jpg)
With the reservoir now gone and the rack also removed, its time to trial fit the bar again. You can see how much clearance I now have on the top of the tunnel and how well those bolt holes line up. I bet you can also tell just how bloody annoyed I am starting to get as well.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030407.jpg)
With a large gap underneath and zero clearance on top, I have questioned in my mind whether Ed's Jig is possibly out of alignment and whether the whole thing should be raised 10mm or so before welding it up. A few more of these need to be fitted to answer that one I guess. Still, these are teething troubles, its what its all about, and I never liked this bit anyway.
Reaching for the angle grinder, I then decided to give Ed a yell first
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/brickwall1.gif)
After a long chat with Ed, I talked through a few ideas to make this bar a little easier to live with. We had to be very careful not to alter the physical position of the steering rack itself as that could affect the steering geometry, and if we get that wrong then a very nasty side effect is something called bump steer. With no diagrams or measurements, Ed very much took on board what I was suggesting and came back with a solution of raising the bar on the brackets with some captive nuts inside. This was conveyed to Dave Fisher to fabricate, and low and behold, a new bracket arrived on my doorstep.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030412.jpg)
I think you will agree that visually it is far more in keeping with the rest of the suspension, and to me actually looks a bit stronger. But the big question remains, has it solved the problems? With the first bar, the rack struggled to rotate this far due to that bit on the back.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030414.jpg)
With the horizontal bar being raised by about an inch, the rack now has more space to rotate, giving me more freedom to adapt the steering column.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030415.jpg)
Thankfully, it also fits perfectly without fouling the master cylinder.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030420.jpg)
I have just had one of those sleepless nights and woken up in a state of panic with a horrible thought running through my head. I have spent so much time concentrating on getting this rack to fit that I have completely forgotten and missed out a crucial measurement. With that bar now sitting 30mm higher, will the petrol tank still fit over the top. Luckily, the answer is yes (I knew it would, didn't doubt myself for a moment :-X ) but I may have to be careful when it comes to the outlet pipe. It should drop between the car and the rack, but access to the union is going to be somewhat awkward.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030418.jpg)
And now, the moment of truth - time to bolt the rack in place. (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif) Hallelujah (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif) It Fits :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030423.jpg)
It fits, but only just - blimey that is close. The steering rack only just clears the tunnel by a few millimeters, but it does add a bit more weight to my suggestion to Ed that the whole setup could really do with raising upwards ever so slightly.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030434.jpg)
And what of that essential rack rotation? Do I have to find a solution to the vertical direction that Ed wanted it ?
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030424.jpg)
Plenty of clearance, the rack rotates just fine, and I now have lots of wriggle room to play with in order to find a more realistic column angle. :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030425.jpg)
All fitted. :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030427.jpg)
I`m so glad that this part went as well as it did, and I would really only have myself to blame if this bit ended up wrong. Credit to Ed though for translating my babbling into a design that worked. Now to take it all apart again to get the bits powder coated to match the rest of it.
;)
Dave,
As always, you've got there(ish). Another great thread. Perhaps we'll all end up with a similar set up. Unless the forthcoming E10 gets us first 😂
Looks good you need to start looking for a 90 degree'ish bevel steering box to go on the input.
Quote from: snoopy on June 23, 2021, 09:50:10 PM
Looks good you need to start looking for a 90 degree'ish bevel steering box to go on the input.
I`m going to try and do this with universal joints so that I can retain some of my existing steering column
Just waiting for some bits to arrive
Quote from: pepsi81 on June 23, 2021, 09:21:20 PM
Dave,
As always, you've got there(ish). Another great thread. Perhaps we'll all end up with a similar set up. Unless the forthcoming E10 gets us first 😂
E10.... September.... Am still being told "submersible" grade flexi line will be fully at home with E10. Think I need to see this to believe it.. ;D ;D
Today I made an annoying discovery, and if this were a "medical" exercise, then this would be described as a "Never" event. (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/no%20no.gif)
This is something that just should not have ever happened. Ed's team have designed this brilliantly and send over a box of parts for Dave's team to assemble and they make an exceptionally good job of it. So what is the problem I hear you ask? Well Ed's team are obviously "Old School Classic Cars" and Dave's team are "Old Skool V-Dubs". Still not making any sense? Well take a look at the front tank support that they have recreated. Amazing how something so small can be so badly wrong.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Angry%201.gif)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030459.jpg)
Every single "loose" nut and bolt has been supplied as Metric, that's what we want as Volkswagen nuts and bolts are indeed all metric. However, all of the captive nuts and bolts that are welded in place, including those two support threads are actually imperial. 3/8 UNC to be precise, just as you would find on an old British Classic Car.
Luckily I spotted this before trying to tighten any bolts, as a 3/8 UNC and an M10 x 1.5 look almost identical. In fact a 3/8 will actually fit an M10 hole albeit loosely, but if you put an M10 in a 3/8 hole, after two or three turns the thread will get tight and strip the threads very quickly.
Teething troubles are to be expected,
But VW's are metric - and this needs to be sorted out ! (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/rules.gif)
So far, most of this has been pretty straightforward to fit, but now comes one of the hardest parts - making it all work with the steering wheel. I`m sure that those out there in the know will be screaming at the computer and I'll probably be shot down in flames as I am sure there is a right way and a wrong way to do this. As I haven't a clue, I'm simply going to try it first "My way" and I'm fully prepared for this bit to go badly wrong.
First of all, I need to find some universal joints. Ed suggested to use a fancy one he had located in the States, but I am bored of playing the mind games around import duties and shipping costs and decided to locate one in the UK if at all possible. There are loads on the market, some are weldable, some have different types and shapes of shaft, some even have different shaft types at each end, but to narrow down my searches, I have opted to stick to the same shape of shaft that the Steering rack has throughout as it seems to be a fairly common size of a 9/16" spline shaft with 36 teeth milled from a 15mm bar. Looking at the Car Builder Solutions Catalogue (Order one, they are Free, and so much easier to browse when sat on the loo pondering), there was one that jumped out at me - and of course it had to be the most expensive at £43 each.
Unlike the virtually straight Steering Column that most of us are using, the universal joints allow us to alter the angle of the steering column to the rack, but you have to be careful here as if you get the angle too steep, then the joints will lock up instead of turning. The joint I was looking at stated a 45 degree operating angle which just didn't sound right. A quick call to CBS confirmed my suspicions of a misprint in their catalogue, and they informed that the typo should actually show this to be 30 degrees instead. That's quite a difference ! However, with two of those operating at 30 degrees each, that gives me 60 degrees to play with, and as I have a rotating steering rack, I'm sure I now have enough wriggle room to make something work. So I ordered a couple and they have just arrived.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030453.jpg)
My limited knowledge of universal joints is that they must always be used in pairs to prevent rotational anomalies with one cancelling the other out at all times otherwise as you turn them they go - FAST - SLOW - FAST - SLOW. So it is really important to align the center "Spiders" as shown below so that the other end goes SLOW - FAST - SLOW - FAST and that way it always gives a smooth operation.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030436.jpg)
I have been asked why the old steering column is still in place, and the answer is because I have not yet finished with it just yet. I have had this tool in my possession for about 20 years now and always knew it would come in handy one day.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030437.jpg)
I want to keep the steering wheel orientation in the same place which means the steering column must remain at the same angle it is now. I also now know that I have a maximum of 60 degrees on offer from the universal joints, so if I rotate the steering rack to the 60 degree mark, I can confirm that this is the absolute maximum angle that it can be.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030439.jpg)
I can make that angle significantly less by now rotating the rack, and whilst anything less is a bonus, I am acutely aware that if the angle becomes too shallow, then the hole in the bulkhead where the column passes through, will also start to get lower.
So it is really important to align the center "Spiders"
This is the important bit Dave.... ;-)up
Time to tackle the steering column then.
One of the other attractions of the 9/16" 36t spline bar was the 15mm diameter shaft that it was machined from. At the end of the original steering column is a clamp to hold the small T-Piece that connects to the steering rubber, (the red ring of death that we all go on about). If that clamp is removed, you will find that the shaft is not only hollow, but that hole is just a shade over 15mm depending on how rusty it is inside, and that gave me an idea of how to put this all together as CBS also sell 15mm bars with splined ends. See where I am going with this?
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030457.jpg)
As luck would have it, placing the universal joints back to back meant that the steering shaft end passed straight through the original bulkhead hole, well close enough for a bit of fettling anyway.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030462.jpg)
As everything seems to be roughly in the same place, its now time to bite the bullet and get the hacksaw out. I'm not yet sure how long the inner shaft needs to be, but the outer shaft certainly needs some cutting back to make some access for whatever comes next. With the Inner now removed, its Squeeky Bum Time as I chop a few inches from the outer, as this is a point of no return.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030468.jpg)
Whilst cutting through the outer column I had a horrible flashback to a previous problem that I had long since forgotten about and that was a very unstable and wobbly steering column. It used to move up and down and I cured it many moons ago by using a 2 inch exhaust clamp bolted to the bulkhead. But with the column now much shorter, that method was not going to work, so I have quickly tacked a bar to the top of the column that now gives full support to the outer column at each end. Not pretty, but for the moment its functional.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030477.jpg)
I'm suspecting that the inner column may present me with a few issues too. :-\
You will not be turning your steering wheel fast enough for any fast slow phasing vibration you just need to ensure the movement is free and smooth through 360 degrees rotation.
Quote from: snoopy on July 01, 2021, 11:34:38 PM
You will not be turning your steering wheel fast enough for any fast slow phasing vibration you just need to ensure the movement is free and smooth through 360 degrees rotation.
True enough . . .
. . . . but its still good practice to do it properly, especially when its so easy to do ;-)up
If you need a bushing to support the inner column in the bottom of the outer tube I seem to remember someone using one of these in the past, you'd need to check the measurements though. I'm sure you've done some work for local plant hire firms in the past, most 1.5 ton diggers are pretty much the same.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nylon-Bucket-Bush-fits-JCB-8008-801-Series-Diggers-for-25mm-O-D-Pin-/361478155050?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Never thought of looking at JCB for a bearing - Good Call ;-)up
I've been thinking a lot about the steering column, or rather trying to remember all of the problems I have had with it in previous years. If the truth be told, I'm not actually certain that mine is a VW one to start with and have never really seen another up close for comparison. In the early days, mine used to have a lot of play in it and this was eventually solved by using a big spring and aluminum collar behind the wheel to effectively put the whole shaft under tension. I could never find a top bearing that seemed happy, but with the bottom joint secured to the steering box, and the spring trying to pull the wheel towards you, it actually felt really good.
However, with the two universal joint being so flexible in all planes and no lower bearing whatsoever to secure, it did dawn on me that I might need also to lock this shaft in place somehow, else the steering wheel could theoretically be pushed and pulled as well as rotated. A bearing at the lower end is most definitely called for, and whilst searching on google came up with a name that I had not encountered before - A Pillow Block Bearing.
Unlike a standard bearing that just rotates, this one is a fairly loose fit in its cradle and allows a bit of twisting and sideways movement. Not a lot, only five degrees or so, but that would be just enough (I hoped) to cater for a warped steering column that would have an incorrect size shaft stuffed up the end and then badly welded in place by someone who should not be allowed to use a MIG. My steering column would probably be banana shaped and not only should this bearing cope with it, but it also had some grub screws at the end that would lock the shaft in place, thus hopefully also solving my tension problem.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030456.jpg)
Now the guys in Customer Services at Car Builder Solutions are very good, but then I guess its because they have had a lot of practice in sorting out some of their badly advertised products. ( Remember that U/J operating angle? ) Well I found in their catalogue a 15mm Pillow Block Bearing (quality one made by Dunlop) and a double ended 9/16" 36t splined shaft, milled from a 15mm bar, and ordered them.
15m bar and a 15mm hole - Its not rocket science to see what I was expecting now is it? :-\
Even the guys at CBS were a bit bemused to find that the latest batch of shafts were now 15.2mm and bearings at 14.9mm. :-X
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030454.jpg)
F.F.S. You just couldn't make this up. (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/brickwall1.gif)
Apologies, I know that this forum is not the place for a rant . . . . but . . . . . .
What is wrong with Companies these days?
What happened to quality control and tolerances?
Makes you wonder what the future will be with poor quality goods, parts made of cheese and the global, lazy, "that'll do" attitude.
Maybe Brexit will stop us importing all this crap and we might have to re-establish our name for making overpriced, but quality goods again.
GRRRR . . . (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/rant.gif)
I've always known them as plummer block bearings. I guess I'm just out of touch.
Quote from: Manxdavid on July 02, 2021, 10:07:44 AM
I've always known them as plummer block bearings. I guess I'm just out of touch.
Probably renamed as you can never find a Plumber when you need one . . . ;D
Quote from: Dave DND on July 02, 2021, 10:13:36 AM
Quote from: Manxdavid on July 02, 2021, 10:07:44 AM
I've always known them as plummer block bearings. I guess I'm just out of touch.
Probably renamed as you can never find a Plumber when you need one . . . ;D
All gone back to Poland mate :-\
Car Builder Solutions confirmed they had a bad batch of the shafts and that they were indeed oversized. Credit where credit is due, the guys on the phone always have a helpful solution to hand, and asked if I was modifying the shaft as they had a slightly longer one that fitted the bearing there and they would rush it out to me asap.
Just arrived by DPD Courier and fits perfectly ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030458.jpg)
Now why couldn't that have been sent the first time around? (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Mates%20Fight%202.gif)
CBS do a range of double spline bars for making steering columns, and the usual practice is to chop them to length in the middle and then sleeve and weld them to the length that you require. As my universal joints are looking like they might end up touching each other, I'm hoping that the other end of the shaft is just about long enough without having to fabricate anything special. If you are reading this and contemplating making a shaft with limited welding skills, then I would suggest to investigate the Double D shaft options as you can alter the shaft length with a hacksaw.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030460.jpg)
If I wasn't looking forward to cutting the outer column, trust me when I say that I am REALLY uncomfortable with chopping the inner column, but I cannot avoid doing it for any longer. I have not only chopped out a huge chunk of it, but also slotted and replicated the slot and recess for the clamp bolt at the end so that it resembles the original one.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030470.jpg)
So, if I have got this shaft assembly right, I should be able to slide the splined part in and out to set the correct length for the universal joints, lock it in place with the clamp so I can then weld it for strength, and then secure the whole lot in place with the grub screws on the pillow bearing. Sounds so simple.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030471.jpg)
One more alignment to make before trial fitting, and that is to make sure the pillow block bearing keeps the shaft as central as possible.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030480.jpg)
I wasn't proud of this photo as it looks absolutely bloody awful. It is my own fault for trying to multi task. Sun was shining and I was painting the metal railings down the side with black hammerite. Finished that job and fell into that dangerous trap that we all do with a brush in one hand and an open tin of paint in the other. We have all been there, and we all have the same though going through our minds - What can I paint next? Not sure what I was thinking as the only thing that I saw was a bare metal bracket. I know that everyone reading will be nodding their heads. Nuff said.
In all seriousness though, there are probably better and tidier ways to do this bit, but this seems to work with what I had available at the time. Besides, it won't actually be seen.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030481.jpg)
And now comes the clever bit, or at least I hope so. Everything is lining up quite nicely and is a lot closer than I had originally envisaged which is a good thing. The next stage is to push the shaft inwards until the two faces of the universal joints are in the same plane whilst trying to keep the operating angle of each one identical. If they touch that's a bonus for me, and if not then I can measure what length of shaft needs to go between them. For an extra bit of wriggle room the rack can also be rotated as long as the overall angle does not exceed 60 degrees. Everything here can move and then be locked in place once it has found its correct position.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030482.jpg)
I have now determined the correct shaft length and locked it in place so that the column can be removed once more without anything moving. My plan is to remove the bolts and clamps (which turned out to be a bit of a schoolboy error) as they foul the bracket and will not let me turn the steering wheel, but I am quietly confident that I have got the orientation right. For those contemplating IVA, there are collapsible column sections available that you could use here instead, but I intend to just weld it all up.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030485.jpg)
Before dismantling it, I took a measurement and was very pleased to see that the operating angle had been reduced and was now 57.5 degrees :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030441.jpg)
Time to take it all apart again and send it off for powder coat :D
The laser cut plates arrived from Ed the other day in various thicknesses, so I have just had them powder coated
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030511.jpg)
It is a very big gap to fill, but doesn't look too out of place when you see it for real - looks far worse in these pictures.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030516.jpg)
I'm not sure how else this could be done, but at least these spacer plates look far more "Bespoke" than a bag full of washers.
Other parts have also returned from being powder coated and have all been reassembled.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030503.jpg)
The column line up perfectly with the universal joints touching each other as planned. Do not underestimate how strong these joints are and how much torque you need to do the bolts up. I ended up having to use a breaker bar to get them tight enough to stop them slipping.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030505.jpg)
This really was the moment of truth, to see if I could actually turn the steering wheel. The column was indeed a bit banana shaped after my welding as expected, but the overall movement seemed pretty smooth if not a bit stiff which is not unexpected given that everything is brand new. Most of the stiffness is coming from the rack itself, so I an not unduly concerned.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030510.jpg)
I am not connecting the hubs yet as I still need to play about with the rack in order to determine how far the wheels will turn and whether I need to put any end stops in place to prevent the tyres from rubbing anything when on full lock.
If you needed breaker bar to stop slippage it means they are just tight enough at highish torque figures so I would consider a couple of good short welds or tacks on the joins to be 100% when you have it fully working.
Quote from: snoopy on July 08, 2021, 10:39:11 AM
If you needed breaker bar to stop slippage it means they are just tight enough at highish torque figures so I would consider a couple of good short welds or tacks on the joins to be 100% when you have it fully working.
I gave them a really good nip, but that's not a bad suggestion at all once I know it all works ;-)up
I keep tripping over my towing bar, so I thought I would fit it back onto the front. It fits perfectly, and exactly as it did with the original beam.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030521.jpg)
Not entirely sure how well this would have fitted on the Imohr though, which is another big plus for me as I don't have to remake this.
The steering rack gaitors were slid to one side so that the tightness of all the joints could be checked - glad I did as they were supplied quite loose. Looking at these, it would not be that difficult to introduce some sort of collar or large washer here if some form of end stop was required for the steering.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030525.jpg)
The Mini steering rack has a much larger turning circle than the VW one, and whilst this may present a problem for some, for me it worked out quite nicely as I am running 235/60/14 tyres on 7J rims, and it would appear that at full lock, I have some clearance against the bodywork.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030526.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030528.jpg)
I just hope that the other side is the same sort of clearance :-X
Looking good. Didn't think you where so wide on the front :-\ :P
Quote from: pepsi81 on July 13, 2021, 12:32:40 AM
Looking good. Didn't think you where so wide on the front :-\ :P
Cheeky Git ;D
Changing the rack has been fairly straightforward so far, but its the bits that you never think of that are proving proving to be the biggest problems. Take for instance the windscreen washer bottle. Most are fitted to the bulkhead, but you can see here that I have very little room to play with and nothing I can find commercially available will fit in this space, let alone allow me enough room to open the cap to fill it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030529.jpg)
Although the bulkhead looks fairly clear, with the tank sitting almost against it, any usable space is taken up by the steering rack. Most of the universal washer bottles have pumps mounted on them and are huge, and the ones that don`t have pumps either tend to be quite tall or have a removable bottle for filling. I just don't have any wriggle room at all for anything like that.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030533.jpg)
My original water bottle was an old modified oil catch can from a motorcycle, so I had a good trawl on Google to see if I could find something similar. What did we do before the Internet? I have no idea what the official requirement capacity is for a washer bottle, but I found an aluminium bottle with a sight glass on the side that was 1 liter capacity. The oil feed pipes were removed and blocked off, and a 4mm barb outlet was added.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030537.jpg)
Its going to be a real pain in the backside to refill this when I need to, but I can just about get my hands in there to remove the lid and can fill it up using a short length of pipe. It clears the tank which is the most important bit. If the truth be told, I still had a load of green liquid in my old washer bottle that has been in there for the best part of seven years as it only ever gets used for the obligatory MOT squirt.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030536.jpg)
Washer bottle sorted, but I am currently stumped for what to do with the remote master cylinder reservoir. I have limited options of space, and the most obvious area to the left of the column would allow me to access it like the washer bottle. The problem is that I do not have enough space for anything to fit and the original Beetle reservoir sticks out into the wheel arch by just over an inch. I need a dual outlet reservoir as there is not enough width for two separate chambers. There is a triple chamber one in CBS that would just about fit, but I'm not happy about potential leakage from blocking off the third outlet, and most of the dual round ones I have found are so tall that the pipework hits the steering rack. There are some small Motorcycle rear units that may be the last resort, but I would rather something with a larger fluid capacity suitable for a car.
I really didn't want to relocate the reservoir in the first place - and this is why.
Could any of it fit in the passenger compartment?
Quote from: bajaowa on July 14, 2021, 12:06:57 AM
Could any of it fit in the passenger compartment?
As an absolute last resort, yes. The trouble is that my partner, Lisa is partially disabled and needs room for her legs to move about and any walking sticks she may be carrying. When I had the washer bottle in there before it got such a beating that I had to relocate it. I could put the Beetle reservoir inside if it came to it, but would far rather find a bulkhead solution first. I have put a few feelers out to the agricultural and plant guys I know to see if they can come up with anything. The other option would be to move the washer bottle and put the brake reservoir in its place. There are a few possibilities yet, but just trying to find something a bit neater.
:-\
Early beetle single master cylinders had quite a small squarish fluid reservoir. Could you fit 2 of those in somewhere?
Quote from: Chad on July 14, 2021, 08:54:13 AM
Early beetle single master cylinders had quite a small squarish fluid reservoir. Could you fit 2 of those in somewhere?
Good call, but side by side they are actually a few mm wider than the dual one :(
I'm obviously not familiar with your buggy but in theory the washer bottle could be a long way from the screen, even in the engine bay.
Quote from: bajaowa on July 14, 2021, 10:59:46 PM
I'm obviously not familiar with your buggy but in theory the washer bottle could be a long way from the screen, even in the engine bay.
I did consider a water pistol on a rope for a while ;D
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif) Where would we be without Google ?
Most of the dual circuit racing / kit car master cylinder reservoirs are far too tall to fit, and putting two side by side just doesn't fit with the room I have. The small motorcycle ones looked good, but didn't really have much in the way of capacity - and given that the sole purpose of a reservoir is to hold a decent amount of fluid, they just didn't make any sense. I have trawled more pages of google than I care to mention over the last few weeks, and when you see where my eventual solution has come from, you may appreciate just how many hours I have spent on this.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/zetor7011.jpg)
I found this picture (with measurements I may add) of a 250ml reservoir from a Czechoslovakian Tractor called a Zetor 7011.
It goes without saying that it was not local but £13 and 5 days later, it arrived from the Czech republic.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/zetor.jpg)
The plastic bracket that came with it was about as much use as a chocolate teapot, so I fabricated a new one out of a bit of stainless strip I had kicking about. As you can see, it fits perfectly
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030541.jpg)
It is visible enough to be able to check the levels very easily, and there is just about enough room to get the lid off and fill it up with a pipe. To be honest though, if it needs filling up, then I probably have bigger problems to deal with and the tank comes out fairly painlessly anyway. The outlets just miss the steering rack bellows, although I may add some pipe spacers in there just to keep everything safely to one side.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030543.jpg)
Fingers crossed, that should be one of the last major hurdles to overcome, and I can now get on with bleeding the brakes before dropping the tank back in.
:D
Just keep an eye on it Dave as a lot of tractors use mineral hydraulic oil for their brakes rather than nasty old plastic-melting brake fluid. Jus' sayin' ;-)up
Tidy. ;-)up
Quote from: Manxdavid on July 22, 2021, 08:20:43 AM
Just keep an eye on it Dave as a lot of tractors use mineral hydraulic oil for their brakes rather than nasty old plastic-melting brake fluid. Jus' sayin' ;-)up
Converted my buggy to dot 5 mineral a few years ago and apart from the yearly 1 pump of the pedal bleed on each corner it's a win all round.
Don't mix the 2 though or you may die.
I just wish I had more free time to spend on this at the moment as summer is here and the Buggy is still in the garage.
The tank was very gingerly dropped into place, and as luck would have it, the outlet at the bottom nestled beautifully between the rack and the mounting bar. Like the original setup, I'm not sure how easy it would be to get to that bottom joint to connect the fuel line, but I have a short length of hose connected to it which joins to a fuel filter that is a bit more accessible.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030561.jpg)
The original tank fits perfectly - no fouling or hitting anything whatsoever. If the truth be told, it fits better now than it did before. ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030549.jpg)
I plan to make a larger capacity fuel tank at some point in the future, and without the steering column, you can see just how much extra room I am going to have to play with.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030548.jpg)
Which is more than I can say for the amount of space I had when the wheels were put on and it finally touched the floor. ::)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030550.jpg)
Even with the coil overs wound out to the max, it didn`t take much for the tyres to hit the underside of the wings. :-X
Bugger - It would appear that I need yet another set of longer shocks which thankfully Ed is going to swap over for me. ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030545.jpg)
Me and my big mouth. What did I say on my last post about major hurdles being overcome? ::)
On the plus side, that suspension travel seems to be really soft and silky smooth ;-)up
Looks like you may need bump stops or rubbers on the shock piston to stop body foul under braking 2 up.
Quote from: snoopy on July 27, 2021, 11:39:56 AM
Looks like you may need bump stops or rubbers on the shock piston to stop body foul under braking 2 up.
Good shout ;-)up
It`s very common to retro fit bump stops and they come in all shapes and sizes or make your own. Very often restraining straps are also fitted to prevent over extension of the system when a "corner" of a vehicle "rides up" and the "suspension" drops "down".
Ed has been brilliant throughout this, but I think he is pulling his hair out now as although yet another set of longer shocks have arrived, they still do not give me enough clearance between my wheels and the wheel arch as my Buggy is still sitting considerably lower on this front end than it did before. Although a suggestion was made of sending yet longer shocks, I have had to draw the line here as doing so would make the suspension geometry look visually wrong, and if it looked that bad to me, then god only knows what it would be doing handling wise. No, we had to think out of the box for another solution.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030571.jpg)
My Buggy does not really conform to the more conventional slammed or lowered look that everybody is familiar with, but is the complete opposite and actually sits quite high up in the air on tall tyres. This is probably all a bit unfair on Ed who was hoping for a more conventional first attempt, but I`m probably going to find more useful pitfalls by pushing this installation to the limit. The target ride height of mine is to replicate my broken torsion leaves that have been wound to the max, shocks that have been set as long and stiff as they can, and as a result, my Buggy has been previously described by Farmer Rob as having the worst handling of any Buggy he has ever driven - He isn't wrong and its something I am very keen to address, but I would like to keep the higher stance at the front if possible due those bloody awful square raised speed humps at the top of my road.
Mine almost has more of an Off-Road stance to it, and that got me thinking. Most of you have heard of dropped spindles, where the stub axle has been welded in a different position to allow the car to be lowered. Well, the Off-Road guys do things the other way round with "Raised" spindles. Ed had never heard of these before, and although Dave Fisher didn't know of anybody in the UK that could make them, he could probably source some EMPI ones if required. The thought of that filled me with absolute horror as there are lots of stories out there of spindles snapping that are made from cheese and its staggering how many times the name EMPI is also mentioned. No, I'm afraid that solution was not for me.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030572.jpg)
Down here in the South West, we have the very active "Baja Club" which is often referred to on here as "The Muddy Side". Great bunch of folk, and known for punishing and jumping Beetles in ways that you would not believe. A call to my good mate Sawmill Jim was made and the instant reply when it came to raised spindles was to contact a guy called Nathan Baker - a name that I`m sure I have come across before. Many of them use his raised spindles and nobody has ever had any problems with them.
Nathan was fairly easy to track down, but really difficult to establish contact with. Doesn't have a business phone number, doesn't answer his mobile, and I found that texting him seemed to be the only form of communication that he would respond to. His workshop however, was only an hour away on the other side of Exeter. I finally pinned him down to a time to go and see him - (Although we agreed 9am, it meant Manyana to him - but I was pre-warned about his lack of timekeeping) and have a chat about what he could do for me. His workshop was like Alladins Cave with just about every project you could imagine on the go in every corner, and all of this was in the shadow of huge racks bulging with old VW spares. Nathan seemed to know his stuff, and it was also interesting to see him manufacturing many of the body repair panels as seen and sold on the JustKampers website. He explained about the various types of spindle on the market and how most of the poor quality aftermarket ones on offer were actually "pressed" into place and then welded up rather than the original ones. He also pointed out that there are two sizes of spindle bearing, and that he would only ever work with the larger 29mm one from the later genuine VW stub axles as he reckoned the thinner ones were just too fragile for Off-Roading. As luck would have it, the larger ones were just what I presented him with.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030573.jpg)
He showed me the jig he used for making them that had different heights on. I didn't want to go too mad, so opted for the smaller 2.5" lift. He explained that the process involved slicing the stub back plate down the middle and using a thick metal plate, welding them back together. This method would man that the track of the wheels (width from wheel to wheel) would increase by 10mm either side. My wheels stick out already, so another 10mm each side was not really an issue - but it may be for some. He said that they would be ready first thing Saturday morning and he always opened up at 9am. I was about to point out that he was considerably later than that this morning, but thought better of it.
Saturday morning arrived, and after leaning against his padlocked gate for what felt like forever, at 9:30 he finally answered a text message asking where he was to say he was running late and would be about half an hour. There is literally nothing where his workshop is near Dunkeswell, and its the definitive description of "Back of beyond". Find somewhere for a coffee? Ha! Forget it, so I slouched back in the car seats for a doze. An hour and a half later, he finally rocked up with virtually no apology for the lateness - this was obviously the norm for him, but as said, I had been pre-warned about this by a few people.
I was eventually (yeah, that's another story) presented with a pair of very heavy duty looking spindles. The welding is without doubt, some of the best I have ever seen, and there was also a good thick brace added to the steering arm too. These were just about as bulletproof as you could get and I could instantly see why the Baja Club, loved them so much. I handed over what seemed a staggering amount of money, but the £200 given was about a third of what they seem to go for Stateside, and remember that those are the ones made from cheese. By this time I was really losing the will to live and just wanted to get home. My original plan was to return after an early start and have them fitted by lunchtime and now, I was just hoping to get home before the pubs had shut and Lisa had gone to bed.
That drive home was a long one. What should have been just under an hour turned out to be nearer three as traveling so much later in the day than planned meant that I had now hit every bit of holiday traffic that was heading down the M5 to the South West on an August weekend. Caravans and RV's had gridlocked the entire network. But it didn't matter, because I was so exited to think that my Buggy was that much closer to being on the road now. As soon as I had got them out of the boot of my car I thought I would just give them a lick of blue hammerite so that they would be ready to fit the following day.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030576.jpg)
Quick lick of paint - What was I thinking?
Should have tried them first. ::)
Errr..., lower A arm balljoint housing interface interference complication?
Quote from: bajaowa on August 10, 2021, 11:43:26 PM
Errr..., lower A arm balljoint housing interface interference complication?
Well spotted, but that was just the start of many problems >:(
Time to fit the spindles - Could this finally be the day that the wheels go on? ::)
Here in Paignton, we still have Steam Trains, and every now and then you can hear the sound of the whistle echoing around the town. Well, today the steam coming out of my ears must have sounded very similar as I too, blew my top, and then immediately afterwards, my heart just sank.
No sooner had I placed the stub axles onto the lower ball joints, I realized that I had a major problem. The lower A-Arm has a nice thick ring around it holding the ball joint in place and Nathan had added so much extra material to these axles when converting them that the two did not fit together. With the stub axle loosely bolted in place, the suspension was absolutely locked solid, no movement whatsoever.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030578.jpg)
Having spent a few hundred quid on these, you can imagine that I was far from being a happy bunny, but I now had an important decision to make. Do I grab the phone and a tub of Vaseline, track Nathan down and insert them (in hindsight, I wish I had), or do I just try and sort them out myself. Being realistic, it was pointless trying to call Nathan, he seldom responds at the best of times and if I am brutally honest, most of the delays I have had now are from waiting for others. Time to do what I should have done all along and just reach for the angle grinder and sort this out once and for all myself. Turns out that my premature painting of these yesterday proved to be a very good idea as over the next few hours of precision grinding, I could now see where the paint was rubbing against the lower joint. Quite a lot of metal had to be removed, which was a bit concerning, but there was still a good thickness left behind and certainly no thinner than they would have been originally at this point. Should not have had to do this though and I`m still a bit annoyed by it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030581.jpg)
They now seem to fit properly and move freely in all directions - (Albeit with the tolerance of fag paper) Phew! Time to repaint them and then fit them back in place. Next problem has now arisen. I know that the Muddy Side don't always run the disc shields for fear of clogging them up, but I had not expected the three mounting holes to have been blanked off and no longer threaded all the way through. However, there is still around 10mm of thread in what is now a blind hole, so I have just trimmed the mounting bolts down as this is far quicker than drilling and tapping new holes. Thanks Nathan, didn't expect to have to do that either.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030587.jpg)
You would be forgiven for questioning just how good these axles are given the problems I seem to be having with them, and I am actually wondering the same, but I really have saved the best until last. After repacking my wheel bearings and refitting the discs to the axles, it was then time to fit the brake calipers. Somehow I wasn't actually surprised to find that the disc would no longer rotate due to the caliper body being firmly wedged against the face of the disc. The drivers side one was even worse as the backing plate was so out of alignment (warped with heat maybe?) that I couldn't even tighten the bolts up to get the caliper to fit. I`m sorry, but this is just crap engineering and I hope that Nathan see's this and hold his head in shame and that any potential customers think carefully before going down this route. Yes Nathan, you may be able to weld, but everything else here is just so badly wrong.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030592.jpg)
On the rear of the caliper mountings are two raised webs and the clearance issue was quickly resolved by removing a mm or two. Not difficult to do, but again, its not something that I should have had to have done. On the warped side I simply ground these back at a slight angle.
I'm sure that this was an isolated incident as I recall what I was told that many of the "Off-Roaders" use his spindles and nobody has ever had any problems with them. Well apart from the lack of tolerances, too much material around the ball joint mounts, blind holes, back plates not fitting and calipers rubbing against the discs, they seem fine - Oh, and I forgot to mention that the speedometer cable hole has also been welded up! They do appear to be as solid as they come but with a total lack of alternatives available, I have had no option other than to make these fit.
Nathan Baker of NB Restorations was so proud of these that he also imprinted an ID number on them - :-X
I`ll let you decide that one I think - Just don't ever ask me to recommend him. (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/no%20no.gif)
Did he leave you the hole for the speedo cable dare I ask? :-\
Quote from: Manxdavid on August 11, 2021, 10:04:16 AM
Did he leave you the hole for the speedo cable dare I ask? :-\
Looks like you missed that bit David.
Quote from: Dave DND on August 11, 2021, 07:30:51 AM
Oh, and I forgot to mention that the speedometer cable hole has also been welded up!
Quote from: Roadrunner on August 11, 2021, 02:12:07 PM
Quote from: Manxdavid on August 11, 2021, 10:04:16 AM
Did he leave you the hole for the speedo cable dare I ask? :-\
Looks like you missed that bit David.
Quote from: Dave DND on August 11, 2021, 07:30:51 AM
Oh, and I forgot to mention that the speedometer cable hole has also been welded up!
Yea sorry, he was going on a bit and I just glazed over... ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Manxdavid on August 11, 2021, 02:38:27 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner on August 11, 2021, 02:12:07 PM
Quote from: Manxdavid on August 11, 2021, 10:04:16 AM
Did he leave you the hole for the speedo cable dare I ask? :-\
Looks like you missed that bit David.
Quote from: Dave DND on August 11, 2021, 07:30:51 AM
Oh, and I forgot to mention that the speedometer cable hole has also been welded up!
Yea sorry, he was going on a bit and I just glazed over... ;D ;D ;D
;D (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/tongue1.gif) ;D (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/tongue1.gif) ;D
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif) (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif) (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
Finally, the axles are on and everything seems to move about as it should. Hopefully I don't get any interference problems or anything locking up when test driving it, but if I do, at least I know exactly where to start looking for a resolve with a little bit more grinding if necessary.
The car has been sitting on axle stands for a long time now, and when I went to put the wheels back on I found myself smiling for the first time in ages. No, not because the wheels were going back on, but because the stub axles were now sitting so much lower that I had to jack the car up even further to get a bit more height. And then came the nail biting moment of truth - lowering it to the ground.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030595.jpg)
What a relief ! There is a lot of travel in that suspension and jumping up and down on the front I could still get the tyre within a few mm of that wing, but the geometry looks right and I still have some wriggle room to adjust the shocks if I need a little bit more ride height. Hopefully I won't have to do that as at the moment, the floorpan is also dead level from front to back.
I guess I now have to sort out a new form of electronic speedo sender now, as I have lost the ability to use my front cable driven one, but right now I'm stopping for a very large beer or three.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Smiley%20Drink.gif)
Can you get a long drill bit and redo your speedo hole or is that where the lower mounting sits?
And I'm presuming that each spindle and caliper mount are cut as one piece and should be as VW intended, but have moved out of alignment during welding (or cooling)?
Quote from: bajaowa on August 12, 2021, 12:53:01 AMCan you get a long drill bit and redo your speedo hole or is that where the lower mounting sits?
Theoretically, there is probably just enough clearance to drill that, but is so close to that lower mount that I dare not risk it. Besides, it would be very dangerous to start running a drill bit down the centre of the spindle as there is a real chance of weakening it. My speedo is electronic anyway, so just have to find an alternative sender unit for it. On the other hand, if I did manage it, the speedo cable would probably wrap around that shock absorber anyway as the steering turned.
Quote from: bajaowa on August 12, 2021, 12:53:01 AMAnd I'm presuming that each spindle and caliper mount are cut as one piece and should be as VW intended, but have moved out of alignment during welding (or cooling)?
From what I can ascertain, yes. The plate between the two is sliced vertically, so that the front and rear look exactly the same. These are then re-welded back onto the thick 10mm plate at different heights - a bit like a sandwich. Now whether the cut was not done at an exact angle, or their is warpage from heat, I really am not sure, but whilst I have no issues whatsoever about their strength, something has gone amiss with the angles. There is enough adjustment of the suspension to dial this out, so I am fairly certain that after a significant number of hours fettling, that all should be good in the end.
Now that its back on its wheels, I decided to take the car for a sneaky drive down to the end of the road and back to see if everything was working as I was hoping it would. Didn't really go too well on the first trip as despite everything I had done, the tyre was still bouncing quite alarmingly against that front wing, and when I tried some moderate braking, I thought the tyre would go through the wing. Wow - Those were not nice noises. The short drive had also allowed the suspension to settle by a fair amount, and it was actually now sitting significantly lower.
No problems I thought, I still had a few turns left on those springs, so the ride height was adjusted upwards a bit. A few turns of the spring base made quite a bit of difference. Whilst I could still just kiss the wing with the tyre under heavy braking, the compromise by compressing the springs so much was that it had really stiffened up the suspension. I was a bit disheartened by this as the previous drive had felt much softer.
The ride height however, at last was about right, and I asked Ed if putting yet longer springs on these shocks would maintain the ride height but give me a softer ride as they would not be compressed so much. Ed agreed, and the following morning, spring set No:5 arrived. Still 175lbs, but 10" in length this time. Being that extra inch longer than the shock was designed for meant that they were a little challenging to install, but this was not before I had dropped the car to the ground with the shocks fitted but without any springs so that I could work out how many bump stop spacers I would need.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030604.jpg)
Merlin Motorsport (Contact them for one of their Free Catalogues) sell some 3mm thick Nylon "C" Washers that act as a physical barrier to prevent the shock from traveling its full distance. With the suspension set where you want it to be, the idea is to simply fill the gap with these washers, and then for good luck, add a few more. I had a gap of 12mm to fill, which meant 4 washers - but for good measure, and to allow for "bounce" I threw in another 4 of them. At £21 inc vat & postage for a pack of ten, they are far from cheap, but if they work, will be worth every penny.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030605.jpg)
This time, the drive down the road felt much softer and finally I could not get that wheel to touch the arch no matter how hard I braked. The steering felt a little strange (Understatement), but that was to be expected as the tracking has not been set yet. The biggest difference though was the total absence of rattles and the Buggy was no longer shaking me to bits.
I am however very conscious that a proper test drive has not yet been done, nor has this been tried with any extra weight from a full tank of fuel and a passenger on board, but I really want an MOT on this before attempting anything else for obvious reasons.
Good news so far, you have a month before the Ragley trip.
Quote from: snoopy on August 18, 2021, 08:29:04 AM
Good news so far, you have a month before the Ragley trip.
But only 8 days until Stoneleigh :o
Quote from: Dave DND on August 17, 2021, 11:24:47 PM
I am however very conscious that a proper test drive has not yet been done, nor has this been tried with any extra weight from a full tank of fuel and a passenger on board, but I really want an MOT on this before attempting anything else for obvious reasons.
Don't forget all the weight of the camping gear you normally carry.
Quote from: Roadrunner on August 18, 2021, 09:05:39 AM
Quote from: Dave DND on August 17, 2021, 11:24:47 PM
I am however very conscious that a proper test drive has not yet been done, nor has this been tried with any extra weight from a full tank of fuel and a passenger on board, but I really want an MOT on this before attempting anything else for obvious reasons.
Don't forget all the weight of the camping gear you normally carry.
Good spot, but that is usually over the rear axles, so wouldn't have thought it should make much difference to the front :-\
Quote from: Dave DND on August 18, 2021, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: Roadrunner on August 18, 2021, 09:05:39 AM
Quote from: Dave DND on August 17, 2021, 11:24:47 PM
I am however very conscious that a proper test drive has not yet been done, nor has this been tried with any extra weight from a full tank of fuel and a passenger on board, but I really want an MOT on this before attempting anything else for obvious reasons.
Don't forget all the weight of the camping gear you normally carry.
Good spot, but that is usually over the rear axles, so wouldn't have thought it should make much difference to the front :-\
I would have thought it will still affect braking though Dave.
Well . . . . . . Stoneleigh . . . . . . ::)
I`m pleased to say that three days before Stoneleigh, it passed its mot with flying colours - no problems whatsoever, and an extra hour in the garage meant that my tracking and steering had now been professionally set up. With the wheels now pointing forwards, it certainly drove the 5 miles back to my house a damned site better than it did going for its test, but I still had a bit of a niggle in the back of my mind over the steering. Something still really didn't feel quite right.
The turning circle is certainly a lot larger than it was before, not a concern, but I have spent 15 years getting used to how it turned and now have to learn again. No drama, its nice to be behind the wheel again. I could have sworn I felt a "notchy" universal joint at some point when turning, but couldn't replicate it, and still haven't to this day. I initially had a concern about how heavy the steering may be as I have a small steering wheel and very wide tyres, but this concern was completely unfounded as it actually felt great - steering was quite light, no worries there at all. Ed always warned me that the steering would be stiff to start with and may not initially self center as a result, but I followed a tip on here about spinning the track rod ends and ball joints in a cordless drill before assembly, and it has been taken apart so many times already that everything seems to move quite freely.
I filled it up with fuel on my way home and it felt truly awful. The front end was really twitchy and after about 10 miles I could feel the outer edges of the tyres had started to feather. Back to get the tracking checked again, and it was found to be way out, in fact that is an understatement, it was a long way out. There were only two explanations for this, either we had set it up wrong the first time around, or something was seriously wrong and the tracking had changed from the load of the tank. It drove ok after the tracking was reset, and as the Stoneleigh show was imminent, I hitched it up to the back of the van and towed it up there. 400 miles with no tyre wear, so must have been ok.
Lisa still hadn't sat in this yet, so we decided to take a quick belt into town for some supplies and I can now sum up the handling of this Buggy with a single word:
UNDRIVEABLE :'(
With the extra weight of the two of us, the ride height had dropped significantly and meant that the A-Arms were now pointing skywards. The result of this was chronic bump steer and a big chunk of the underside of my wing was taken out as I tried some very light braking. On the positive side, the smoothness of the ride in a straight line was dramatic, and if it hadn't have been, then I may well have left it by the side of the road. The suspension was clearly operating within an area of movement that it was not suppose to be in.
Dave Fisher and Pie Valley Ed were both at the show and spent a good time underneath the car. It was good to be able to spend some time with them rather than exchanging pictures and messages, as they could now see this first hand. Dave brought along a guy who designed one of the Cobra front ends and we soon came up with a bit of a game plan, which would undoubtedly mean stripping it all down again - The joys of prototypes I guess, but at least they were both still on board as always. On the very positive side, I now have a current MOT and can at least test drive it whenever I make some changes.
So, my "To Do" list is starting to grow:
1) Its still sitting too low and the A-Arms should not be pointing skywards - solve this and I may solve the arch rubbing - If not we may have a plan B.
2) The Cobra Guru pointed out that we should not have relocated the steering rack for clearance, but should have retained its original position.
3) Need to sort out a working speedometer as there are far too many cameras about.
4) Rookie mistake on my part - Its always been out of alignment, but I forgot to straighten my steering column when putting this all together
5) Farmer Rob reminded me that the rear suspension also needs looking at due to it being near rigid too. Thanks Rob.
Bit of a downer but big firms spend millions of £ and thousands of hours on design, computer testing and then real life development ironing out the snags.
You will get there..
The setup seems like it has tooo much leverage on the coil spring, hence the soft ride. Doesn't look like there's a practical way of moving the top mount, so would think the only solution would be a stronger spring.
Quote from: snoopy on September 05, 2021, 09:04:59 PM
Bit of a downer but big firms spend millions of £ and thousands of hours on design, computer testing and then real life development ironing out the snags.
You will get there..
I will indeed get there - I knew it would never be easy, but I will get there ;-)up
Quote from: bajaowa on September 05, 2021, 09:57:21 PM
The setup seems like it has tooo much leverage on the coil spring, hence the soft ride. Doesn't look like there's a practical way of moving the top mount, so would think the only solution would be a stronger spring.
Not sure about stronger springs, as that would make the ride much stiffer - but I'm going to take some proper measurements this time before I take it apart to see exactly what is going on - I'll certainly post my findings on here as you never know, someone may spot something that I have not.
Just waiting for some "equipment" to arrive so I can do this properly instead of trial and error this time around
:-)Geek
Sorry I do not do a lot of reading as thick!. But the bottom arms the mounts look very high like it was made for a very low drag car or to keep within scrub line? And why not go more narrow!!.with longer!! Arms.. viva stubs with alloy hubs to your pcd with ldv 3/4unf tie rods work well and cheap? But Inboard with coilovers with a rocker arm arrangement would have worked nice with that set up with the big old vw stubs...I built a set up with inboards years ago as needed a narrow arms and had big old stubs ..worked very well.... Has it been on corner scales!!?? More times and not springs need to be uprated?? So they hold the car up why the shocks do the work!!
The concept behind this was to make a bolt on competitor to the Red9 that would fit a standard Beetle, using as many standard parts as possible - sure there are many different ways to approach this, but the design brief was not to go down any other route, and certainly not to narrow the beam. I didn't design this, I`m just the guinea pig
I am however trying to find someone around here with corner scales so that I can indeed weigh it though ;-)up
You need some turn plates under the tyres so you can see the tracking angle change as you alter the loading on the front suspension it reads like you have bump steer. You may get away with using thin cardboard and a couple of protractors under the wheels although not as free moving as plates.
Protractors and cardboard? Come on Keith, you know me better than that ;D
In order to check and align this properly I thought the best way to do it was to get some proper garage equipment. I found a guy selling this who had bought it himself for building a Cobra, which means it has never been kicked around the workshop in a commercial environment. Not only is it like new, but also comes with calibration certificates, wheel turn plates and a very descriptive book of words. Literally just picked it up and looking forward to how much trouble I can get myself in with it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/eurotek.jpg)
Sure its a bit O.T.T. but when you add up how many miles I have to do along with a lorry full of chocolate Hob-Nobs every time I need to visit my mate for a reading, this is actually a far more viable solution in the long run as I can just sell it on when I have finished with it.
;-)up
This is not as over the top as you might first think Dave. I have had an interesting journey, well to me it was ;D, regarding buggy suspension/steering/gross weight/corner weight etc etc which I will put on my thread when I reach this particular journey`s end, (and as you know the end just never seems to arrive both physically and bank account depletion wise ;D ;-)up ;-)up ;D). ) The guys who have travelled down the IVA route often have all sorts of gear they have forked out for one off use or have found ingenious ways to do it cheaper. Bet you keep this bit of equipment..
Best you keep that after and offer a buggy alignment service down on the coast to combine a holiday with buggy setting up.
May be useful here if you do sell it as we could offer a more central service.
Quote from: snoopy on September 06, 2021, 11:00:07 AM
Best you keep that after and offer a buggy alignment service down on the coast to combine a holiday with buggy setting up.
May be useful here if you do sell it as we could offer a more central service.
Do you really think anyone would let me loose on theirs after seeing how I have messed up mine? ;D
But I`ll certainly let you know when it needs a new home ;-)up
If I am going to be test driving the Buggy over the coming days and weeks, I have decided to sort out the speedometer before I get carried away with anything else and end up getting caught by the numerous "Trainee Feds" around here. Originally, I used a small pulse generator on the end of the speedo cable as a temporary solution that lasted over fifteen years, but as the hole for this has now been welded up, I have decided to opt for a better and more permanent solution.
Years ago, I used to sell digital dashboards and gauges, and still have a few bits and pieces kicking about that I had put aside to fit on the Buggy but never got around to. One of the VDO sender kits I had used a serrated ring that attached to the rear driveshaft as it emerges from the gearbox.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030611.jpg)
I've just quickly fitted this to show how it works as it may prove helpful to others. Rather than removing the driveshafts to slide this ring on, the common practice was to chop it in half and install in two sections. This is known as a "Hall Effect" style sender and it generates a small signal pulse each time the metal moves past it. This system is very accurate and used by many of the higher quality gauges whereas the cheaper ones tend to use small magnets instead to rapidly open and close a small switch to give the signal pulse each time the magnet passes by.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030613.jpg)
As I am using the magnet version, I have fixed some small rectangular neodymium magnets to the ring - evenly spaced, but I only used 8 of the 16 webs. To prevent them flying out when they are rotating at speed, I also fixed them in place with Araldite, and then put heat shrink around them for good measure.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030616.jpg)
The sender unit needs to be very close for the magnets to work and as I am using 8 magnets, it means that for every rotation of the wheel, I now get 8 pulses.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030622.jpg)
How fast the wheel rotates will depend on the tyre size, and this will also affect how many times it rotates in a given distance. There is some serious math to do here because if your pulses are too many over a given mile, then whilst the speedo may display some good bragging speeds, if there are too few pulses, then it can be quite expensive with the number of speed cameras around.
If you want to work it out correctly, then this is the formula you need - (and to save looking it up, there are approx 1,609,344 millimeters in a mile)
Rolling Circumference (in mm) = 3.14 x ( Wheel Rim Diameter x 25.4 + 2 x Tyre Width x Tyre Aspect Radio / 100)
or . . . .
To make it easier, I have written a quick Calc that you can download here :-)Geek
www.beachbuggy.info/DNDSpeedoCalc.xlsx
At long last - Something on my Buggy now works perfectly (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
This is a really neat fix Dave. Do you know if the serrated ring is still available to purchase and if so where from.
Quote from: Paul1953 on September 07, 2021, 07:59:56 AM
This is a really neat fix Dave. Do you know if the serrated ring is still available to purchase and if so where from.
I don't have any left here, but you can still get them stateside ;-)up
https://www.mooreparts.com/vw-bug-cv-joint-pulse-generator-ring-for-hall-effect-speedo-sensor-vdo340020
I do have the VDO sensor and gearbox brackets here though ;-)up work with some electronic "rotating needle" speedos and not cheaper LCD ones
Before I start stripping this down for the umpteenth time, I am going to take a few measurements, so I at least have a base line to work with.
One of the subjects that has frequently come up in conversation is that of "weight" and recently, corner weights. If this were a high performance Racing Car being set up for the track, then knowing how much weight over each wheel is absolutely critical for setting up the suspension correctly, whereas in our old Buggies, if asked about weight, the answer is usually . . . erm . . . Yes, it has some.
But, if the truth be told, I don't actually know the answer. Many on here have often asked what the weight of a Buggy is, and the figure banded about is about 750Kg but how accurate is that? How many out there have actually weighed one on a weighbridge? But a weighbridge figure would not give me an indication of how much weight was sitting over each axle. I did a bit of investigating into Corner weight measurement and what it would cost, and I am still laughing from the prices that were being thrown back at me. Bloody Hell, that was expensive, but then when I see how much a professional set of corner weight scales are, even the cheap ones start well into four figures, you can see why prices are so high. There must be a cheaper and easier way to do this. I had a trawl on the net and came across a guy using multiple sets of bathroom scales under each wheel, but as the only ones I could now find were glass topped, I didn't fancy that either. I did however, come across a cheap set of 300Kg warehouse platform scales for £15 and bought a couple as I know you have to keep the car as level as poss and weigh both sides at the same time.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030728.jpg)
Because I wanted to roll the car on and off the scales, I placed a few strategic bricks under each wheel to give me the right height whilst keeping it level.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030723.jpg)
Sure enough I got a couple of readings, and over the next 10 minutes tried a few different combinations to see what it would do to the weight.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030721.jpg)
Now whilst these measurements are particular to my own car, they cannot be far off most others either - This is what I found.
Front Axle Weights measured with a full Beetle shaped tank of fuel, how ever many gallons that is.
Car on its own, no additional weight:
Drivers Side = 133.0Kg
Passenger Side = 126.3Kg
Me sat in Drivers seat (and I eat a lot of Pies):
Drivers Side = 156.9Kg
Passenger Side = 150.1Kg
Driver and Passenger (Me and Liz):
Drivers Side = 180Kg
Passenger Side = 176Kg
So the springs Ed sent to me of 175Kg are pretty much on the money - the smoothness of the ride at the front certainly confirmed that and anything stiffer may be a little too much if I was driving it on my own. I think I will try and stick with these springs for now, unless things go wayward.
And yes, I did weigh the rear end too - Done with nobody sat inside, and also bear in mind I have a heavy 2.0 litre T25 engine fitted.
Driver Side = 233.5Kg
Passenger Side = 241.8Kg
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030725.jpg)
My Maths by adding the four corners together, makes that a Grand Total of around 735Kg so we were not far out with our initial approximation of 750Kg.
:-)Geek
Quote from: Dave DND on September 15, 2021, 12:57:02 PMHow many out there have actually weighed one on a weighbridge? But a weighbridge figure would not give me an indication of how much weight was sitting over each axle.
Actually they can calculate Axle weight too on a weighbridge. I have my T5.1 done it was 2500kg with most of my camping gear onboard an actually a 50:50 weight distribution.
They can give you corner weights too..... May find public weighbridge depots closed to the general public at the moment. Up my way they have not allowed public use to re-commence as yet. (They are often "council" controlled).
There's a public weigh bridge at the Trading Standards site directly opposite my workplace. Always ooen. You just drive up, press a button to activate, and drive slowly across the scales which are imbedded into the road surfsce.
Gives you axle weight and toal on a large display. Doesn't do corner weight.
local weighbridge is similar in that the drive on section is embedded and therefore level with the ground surface. Just needs each wheel placed on the plate and you get an accurate corner weight. Double checked the resulting 4 weights and they were as accurate as you could expect... ;-)up
Quote from: Dave DND on September 15, 2021, 12:57:02 PM
I did however, come across a cheap set of 300Kg warehouse platform scales for £15 and bought a couple as I know you have to keep the car as level as poss and weigh both sides at the same time.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030728.jpg)
do you have a link for these
Quote from: brummie_steve on September 16, 2021, 11:26:54 AM
do you have a link for these
Sorry, I had the last two from a seller down the road - was hoping he had more, as wanted a full set. :'(
Plenty on Amazon though - just a bit more expensive ;)
You got an absolute bargain Dave... Cost me over £130 for four....... I will, sometime later due to family issues, go into detail regarding a very entertaining and instructive session that came about completely by chance and led me through a pro`s insight to what I thought was a simple Vw suspension system. It really isn`t. What I can say is you are going down the right line, at least in my humble opinion. ;-)up ;-)up
You need a clever head for suspension and steering design when you look at all the angles of turn and suspension travel then add in the other complication of one wheel up and one wheel fully down then start working out the geometry in different places.
Right there Keith.... Modern cars have certainly come light years ahead of what we drove around as new drivers.... A modern car starts stops steers etc with next to no effort from the driver. I was given the chance to drive a TR6 early this summer. My favourite british car ever made. What an exhilerating experience. Push in the back acceleration with the most amazing exhaust sound. Arms and shoulders steering going fast round country lane bends. Hairy braking. Bouncing suspension.....Got in my car to drive home..... so completely characterless in every way...
Characterless is a good description of modern functional cars, they just do the job easily no messing with chokes and hesitation fighting with a heater that will not clear a screen you just key in and go.
Lots of things to sort out and I have to start somewhere. I think the ride height and suspension travel is the one I shall tackle next, because if I cannot get this one right, then any subsequent alterations will require setting this up again, so might as well tackle this one first.
I know that there are probably some technical do's and don't for this and a correct procedure that should be followed, and lets face it, I have got this completely wrong so far, but this time I intend to tackle this in a slightly different way. Learning, laughing or crying - not sure how this will end, but will try and explain my thoughts for doing it this way. In my haste to get it ready for Stoneleigh, I definitely made a bit of a Rookie error here, as I spent a long time messing about with getting the ride height to both sit and visually look right without taking into account a very important factor - weight and load. In my defense, I thought I had by jumping up and down on it, but I completely underestimated how much the suspension would actually settle after driving around the block.
Currently, the shocks are physically as long as I can get in there, and I have gone for a spring that is one inch longer than it is supposed to be. In a straight line, the ride feels quite smooth so I know that the springs are working correctly. There is more than enough thread on the shocks to raise them up a bit, but I want to ensure that I do not compress the springs too much else they will start to stiffen up and become what is known as coil bound.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030734.jpg)
Rather than keep endlessly adjusting these, I am going to ignore any ride height settings and see if I can determine how much the shocks are moving up and down. If I can work that out, then I plan to adjust the springs to operate at the maximum ride height possible for the shocks, and not necessarily how I initially want them to perform on the car. It gets a bit complicated here but with the car under normal load, ie: People sat in it, the shock and spring will compress to a particular length which can be measured. I can simulate hard braking with a couple of people stood on the bonnet and when the wheel touches the arches, the spring length can be measured. With no load on the car and physically lifting the front up a bit, the spring length can also be measured. Get the idea? Trying to measure the springs also brings its own challenges, as getting in there with a tape measure is nigh on impossible, but a solution was found for just over a fiver on ebay with a huge 10" long "Wing Compass" that I could then use as a set of dividers by holding them against the springs, and then easily measure the distance with a tape afterwards.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030736.jpg)
The next few hours were spent measuring both the shock and spring length, writing it down, driving around the block, measuring, driving, standing on the bonnet, measuring, etc etc, and a pattern was not only emerging, but it seemed to be fairly consistent too. From what I thought was under load, to actually being under load was around a centimeter in difference. From being very light, to maximum load touching the arches, the shocks seemed to travel up and down by around 5cm and just below the midway point seemed to be where it sat under normal load. All seems good so far.
The spring did not appear to use the full length of the shock, and if the car was jacked up with the wheels off the ground, there was a clear 2.5cm of extra shock travel. So my thoughts are that if I wind the springs up by this amount, this will give me the maximum ride height possible without compromising how the springs are functioning. If I wind them up by any more then this will compress the springs when under load and I risk them being coil bound, and if I wind them any less, then the ride height will be lower with spring performance unaffected. At least that's the theory. This time around, I am going to set them to the maximum limit and then lower it instead of the other way around, because if I cannot get enough ride height doing this, then I am simply wasting my time with them.
The springs are adjusted up and down the threads using a special "C" spanner and you need to have the right sized spanner for the diameter of the shock else you end up with blooded knuckles from where it keeps slipping off. Actually in reality it makes no difference what size spanner you use as they all keep slipping off as you try to tighten them. I came across an adjustable C Spanner with nothing more than a pivot point on it, and I must say that it seems to function very well. If you ever have to adjust shocks, get yourself one of these for the toolbox.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030740.jpg)
Whilst on the subject of the spanners that slip when you are applying a lot of pressure to them, I must also mention the locking rings at the base of the springs. When that spanner slips, you will lose your knuckles and trying to get two spanners in there together means that you ought to consider having the Blood Transfusion Service on speed dial. As they are now rejecting my calls and I have lost so much skin trying to adjust these, I have decided to ditch the two locking rings in favour of a single ring with an allen key locknut which should make future adjustments easier and requiring only one spanner at a time.
With the shocks removed, the now uncompressed springs are carefully measured before taking them apart to fit the lower rings. I will now reduce this length by 2.5cm by winding the rings upwards so that when they are refitted fitted and load applied, they should compress back to the same length but I should also now have an extra inch of threads sticking out the bottom with a much higher ride height. Christ, This is quite hard work trying to get my head around this.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030739.jpg)
Its certainly much easier winding these springs up and checking the length with my Compass whilst they are removed from the Buggy.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030742.jpg)
With the correct height now reached, they can be easily locked in place with an allen key.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030738.jpg)
With the shocks refitted to the car, its very clear to see the difference in the amount of the exposed threads at the base of the shock. The ride height looks somewhat ridiculous as the front car really is pointing up towards the sky, no matter how many times I jump up and down on the bonnet. Still, the aim of this bit is purely to see if I can clear the wheel arches whilst keeping a smooth ride. I can always lower it a bit if this works. Time to find Lisa and take this for a drive.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1030741.jpg)
Well that was an interesting trip around the block and I am certain that at one point she was trying to hold the steering wheel steady as well. Sure, the geometry is now all wrong and to say it handled like a Pig is a bit of an understatement, but then that was to be expected and thankfully there were no surprises there. The drive however, was really smooth and even with some seriously heavy braking, I could not get the front wheels to hit the arches at all. Brilliant, my measurement system had worked. But the most interesting bit was only discovered when I returned back to the garage, and it backs up what I said right at the beginning about how the suspension settles after a drive. I left the garage with the car pointing skywards, even after jumping up and down on the front, and after our return, the car appears to be sitting almost level. That had dropped by nearly two inches from driving around the block. With Lisa still on board, I measured the angle of the top suspension A-Arm, and was stunned to see it now at virtually horizontal and also measured my Tow Bar height, which was 30cm from the floor - exactly the same height as when I had made it all those years ago.
The car was now at its original height again - Time for a celebratory beer
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
Its been a while since I was last in the garage as things have been a bit busy down here. My House now has a new roof and the scaffolding has now come down on my Mum's house too. Building 2 houses at once has been a bit time consuming to say the least.
So normal service will resume as soon as I can remember where I left off. Doh! ::)
One thing I have done though is to tidy up some of the wiring under the bonnet. I had loads of cables draped across the tank, and as the tank has been in and out so many times, I thought I would rewire it all. Now everything is inside some conduit and routed around the edges which should make life a little easier for future tank removals when I come to play radiators.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022001.jpg)
I always suspected that the rack was sitting a little higher than it was designed to be when using its original mounting bracket, and this was confirmed by Ed at Stoneleigh. The CAD design for the rack height showed that if it were a few millimetres from its intended height, then the steering would suffer badly with "Bump Steer", and if it was out by anything more than a few millimetres then the steering would be catastrophic. Although the steering never actually felt that bad on the modified bracket that was made, I though that it was worth just double checking - hence the reason that the car is in bits again.
Rack height seems spot on - so that one can be ticked off the list. ;-)up
I take it that the trip to Mevagissey for fish & chips is inching closer then!
Quote from: Cornishdave on February 14, 2022, 11:32:54 PM
I take it that the trip to Mevagissey for fish & chips is inching closer then!
Oh yes . . . . Need some Chips for sure ;-)up
Its that time of year when the word "Stoneleigh" is being banded about. That word has many meaning to many people. To some, its a great Kit Car Show. To some it heralds the start of the show season. To most of us on here, it means an awesome weekend camping with your mates. To me, it means pull your finger out and get that bloody car back on the road. Its the same every year.
::)
Right then. Steering column alignment. My steering column has always been at an angle and whilst fitting the rack meant that the column went through exactly the same bulkhead hole as before, it seemed to be even more out of alignment due to the positioning of the lower joint. As I am now using universal joints instead of a long straight shaft, moving the bulkhead hole over by an inch or so sorted that one out fairly easily.
This did mean playing with the universal joints again, but if I'm brutally honest, I have never really been that happy with these ones. Sure, they are the supposed Grand-Daddy of joints as recommended by just about everybody and the Premium ones that Car Builder Solutions supply, but I really don't like them. A couple of times the steering has felt a bit "Notchy" for want of a better word, and the wheel does not seem to rotate as smoothly as I was hoping. I have always been a bit suspicious of these joints when the working angle was reduced on the CBS website from 45 to 30 degrees so whilst they were removed, I thought I would take a closer look at them. I took a die grinder to the square edges and rounded them off a bit, which certainly gave an extra few degrees of operation and seemed to eliminate the problems I was having.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1040035.jpg)
But I am still not happy with them. The problem is that they are just too thick and heavy. They look awesome, no doubt about that, but the metal is just too thick to be able to clamp them up properly, and despite using a breaker bar to nip them up, the one attached to the rack has no "give" in it and just will not tighten up as it should. I have now sourced an alternative, and these pictures should illustrate what I mean.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1040179.JPG)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1040182.JPG)
The next problem I have to solve is the distance between the two universal joints. There must be a real market out there for someone to supply short lengths of splined bar, because the gearbox people wanted an arm and both legs to supply a large quantity, or the metalworkers in India of all places were happy to supply me with one, but I just couldn't trust the translation in order to get exactly what I wanted. Plan B was to buy one of the bars from CBS, cut it down to size and weld it together. Sounds great for those of you that can weld, but I am still in the self learning phase. I know you have to butt weld the two ends together, sleeve them and them weld up the sleeve for total strength. Mine ended up looking like a gobstopper in the middle, but at least I am confident that it will never ever break.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1040187.jpg)
Everything seems to line up and rotate, but I`m not really going to know how well it works until I go for a drive.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/P1040204.jpg)
It does mean that I can now put the tank back in though ;-)up
Buggy is back together at last and time to take it for a spin around the block. I can't say I'm going for a test drive as nothing has yet been aligned or adjusted. I learnt least time I did this that it needs a good mile or so for the suspension to settle properly as rolling it in and out of the garage and jumping up and down on it simply wasn't enough.
That drive though was certainly not for the feint hearted. In fact, I would go as far to say that the car was bloody lethal to drive. The wheels are still obviously pointing in all directions, and whilst the front suspension certainly feels quite smooth, it is really showing up how stiff the rear is as when going around a corner it felt like the rear wanted to Pogo and somersault. Oversteer at low speeds really makes you wonder whether to bother cleaning the seats afterwards, or just change them. The steering still felt a little odd though with a few tight spots, but I am wondering if my column may be slightly out of alignment because of my duff welding - need to check that one and maybe re-weld it.
At least it moves and I can now start playing with some of the alignment toys I bought.
Christ, that was scary though :o
All the Gear and No Idea . . . . ::)
I just thought I would say that before you lot do :P
But on a serious note, I have never done any of this before, so if you spot something I am doing wrong, or you would do it another way, please let me know as my build thread on here is very much warts and all - if it goes wrong, then at least you can see what I did wrong and hopefully not make the same mistakes.
First up is setting the Camber:
Camber is measured in degrees and is the angle of the wheel when viewed from the front of the vehicle. If the top of the wheel is tilting away from the car, or outwards, then the camber is said to be positive. If the top of the tyre is tilted inwards, then the camber is said to be negative.
When the camber of your wheels are out of adjustment you can experience premature wearing of the tyres on the affected side of your car. Another problem that can result from your camber being out of alignment is the steering can pull to the side with the most positive camber.
These types of camber issues usually arise as the result of structural damage or damage to the strut and/or spindle assembly. Other factors that cause your camber to fall out of alignment are sagging springs or other attached parts becoming defective such as ball joints. These mechanical issues can all have an affect on your ride height.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/camber.jpg)
Looking at Ed's latest set of figures (its a different set of numbers each time I ask) was to start out with around 0.5 degrees of negative camber as more can be added in later if needed, which seemed straightforward enough and meant it was time to get the first toy out of the box.
This frame is designed to sit flat against the wheel rim so that a measurement can be taken. The two round bits in the middle slide along the grooved centre so that different sizes of wheel can be accommodated. This is somewhat better than the two sockets we had taped to the side of a spirit level back in the early days of setting the wheel in a vertical position.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022002.jpg)
The frame is then "hung" on the side of the wheel and is held in place by two rough strips, like industrial velcro, that grip against the tyre surface to stop it slipping. The actual measurement is taken using an inexpensive (cost me less than a fiver) angle finder, which being magnetic makes life a lot easier.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022003.jpg)
The next step is critical. This frame needs to be adjusted so that the vertical bar is indeed perfectly vertical and that the two round spacers I mentioned earlier are firmly against the side of the rim both top and bottom. Even the slightest gap here and the measurements will be compromised. Sounds fiddly, but it really isn't as the way this frame has been designed it just drops in place and adjustments are really easy.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022004.jpg)
Time to break out the spanners. Unlike that large eccentric nut on a conventional VW front end, mine has a really easy method of adjustment in the form of a Rose Joint that is screwed in and out of the top arm until the correct angle is reached.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022005.jpg)
You have to be careful when tightening up the locknut as it can also affect the reading, but after a few attempts, half a degree of positive camber was what I was after,and I reckon I have got this spot on.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022006.jpg)
This procedure is then repeated on the other front wheel and then the original one re-checked again to make sure it hasn't moved.
So far, so good - I can now tick that box ;-)up
Be worth checking it does not alter too much through the suspension travel range.
Quote from: snoopy on April 22, 2022, 08:41:59 AM
Be worth checking it does not alter too much through the suspension travel range.
I agree with you, but if it did, then that would mean a hole can of worms about the whole design and geometry - I`m kind of holding on to the thought that Robin got the concept right here as its a tried and tested setup as used on the Westfields etc - Where I was going wrong so far (we think) was the ride height position and rack location, both of which appear (I hope) to be sorted. Arms are pretty much level which is a good place to now start from. Going to take my time with this one now and get everything set up - including the rear, before it hits the road again.
Hi Dave..... Following this with a great deal of interest..... I am running .5 camber. (Well in theory ;D). Principle of adjustment is to slacken the link pin clamp bolts. Tighten link pin fully and slacken off fractionally. Shimming to get your neg camber. However same drawback. Pull in the link pin tightly and measure camber. Slacken off a tad and measure again and yep... change there..Think I posted some while back that I, by pure chance, came across the opportunity to speak to a retired pro who spent his career on steering/suspension geometry alongside modded road, off road and track cars......
Briefly as I can, (and hopefully put into words some of the advice he passed on)...... The real issue with a swb buggy will always be the front end lightness due to removal of the shell etc. With standard set up you will always have a structure that wants to hop about at the front.... This is where I believe your approach will eventually lead to a solution that I am sure there is a market for.
He said that an initial aim should be to work with the vw data purely as a starting point but expect to move away as needed. Each buggy will be different. It will be a journey. Said that it isn`t coincidence that all standard production cars etc have a wheel on each corner of precisely the same diameter. Camber..... negative so that max tread width squats on the ground. Same to give self centre steer on level graded ground/road. Castor... start with a standardised setting if changeable and work from there. Tracking.... again use the VW 1/8th toe in but be prepared to experiment...
Initial aims...... Self centre steering at low speed. Camber/castor/tracking whereby no tyre tread "wipe off" of note. (Ensure front wheels don`t crab. Ensure back wheels don`t crab).
Document all changes/adjustments so you have data to refer back to. It`s normal for it to be one foot forward then two back... nature of the game without computer simulation.
Each individual change may/will effect other aspects. (This reminds me of something that was common knowledge back in the seventies but seems to have drifted away. I have seen many state that you do not need an anti roll bar on a buggy due to the light front end. Remove an anti roll bar and you remove it`s other equally important function.... that is to minimise a front wheels tendancy for rearward movement as much as possible.
So I have a humble opinion brought out by one of your comments...... I believe there is no right or wrong way. There is only the way that achieves what you are searching for...... ;-)up ;-)up ;-)up
Quote from: Paul1953 on April 22, 2022, 04:49:39 PM
So I have a humble opinion brought out by one of your comments...... I believe there is no right or wrong way. There is only the way that achieves what you are searching for...... ;-)up ;-)up ;-)up
I like that a lot ;-)up ;-)up
I've actually had a few light bulb moments in the garage in the last few days and some very interesting findings that I think may be the root cause of a lot of problems. I will certainly document them all on here as I go through them, including a though on my rear suspension also. My ultimate goal is for Farmer Rob to drive my Buggy again in the hope that he can alter his comment from "
mine is the worst he has ever driven," to that of "
it may now be one of the best"
I`ll get him to eat those words one day . . . Trouble is, until that day, I cannot actually disagree with him ;D
Well with all these new, modern parts fitted, surely you can not make it worse ;D ;D ;D ;D
Rob
Quote from: farmer rob on April 22, 2022, 06:49:48 PM
Well with all these new, modern parts fitted, surely you can not make it worse ;D ;D ;D ;D
Erm . . . . Uh . . . . I think my brain took that as a challenge . . . . because it went from worse to undriveable :'(
::)
But on the more positive side - It can only be improved now as genuinely could not get any worse ;D
Here are two photos taken during the lockdown period when weighbridges were closed to the public. These to show that it`s far from straightforward getting a buggy steering/suspension anywhere near what you think it should be. It`s all trial and error as Dave is finding. (It can be frustrating to say the least. I haven`t resolved all issues to my satisfaction and I am on standard swing arm...k&l systems). If I had not seen this with my own eyes I would simply not have believed it possible. Bought 4 off 0 to 300kgs scales. Checked their accuracy and went for a first try in measuring the buggy four corner weights. This was on flagstones but later measurments were carried out on a dead level concrete garage floor. (Yes I took the carpets up ;D ;D). The scales have 4 adjustable feet so can each can be levelled accurately....
So look at the two photos. These are of both the offside and nearside front wheels and all 4 scales were definately operational.....
One side shows a front corner weight of 60.30kgs and the other shows 0.00kgs. Yes that is truly at zero. Was stunned to see this. After much checking of the correct levelling of scales front to back and side to side and diagonally both directions I had to step back and think.
The cause of this proved to be the rear swing arm set up as it was then. I had always held the view that to set up the rear swing arm assemblies on a buggy that the offside and nearside swing plates needed to be adjusted to a point whereby the rear wheels sat relatively squarely in relation to the road surface after the system had settled. A little negative camber where possible and not sat right down on bump stops. I had been pleased with what I had accepting that each torsion bar would differ from the other so the plate angles may be fractionally different to compensate.
Here lies the problem of following protocol to the letter and is probably a good example of why I was told each buggy would be different in it`s suspension set up. So tweaking of one side spring plate by just a tad resulted in the front end levelling out. This example goes to show that when considering suspension/steering one tweak can and will have an effect elsewhere...
(http://i.imgur.com/gnrSwW1.jpg) (https://imgur.com/gnrSwW1)
(http://i.imgur.com/p68vocO.jpg) (https://imgur.com/p68vocO)
While you are setting your angles, might it be an idea to replace the shock absorbers with solid bars, to eliminate any chance of the height changing and affecting the other settings, reduce the number of variables
Ttfn Glenn
This may be an idea Glen...... ;-)up ;-)up (I cannot recall how many times I have tried to get the rear end to settle back to a "normal stance" after jacking back end up. All because the swing arms drop each time to the shock absorber limit).
I have my corner and total weights now. They are quite close side to side. Needed them for the for the iva plate and application sheets..... Iva inspector uses these weights to programme the brake testing equipment. This section of testing goes way beyond mot test requirement.
Just out of interest here are my current weights...(Bear in mind the scales used were far from pro quality/accuracy). Weights checked repeatedly by rotating each scale around the wheels).
Offside Front..... 108kgs
Nearside Front....110kgs
Offside Rear........186kgs
Nearside Rear......175kgs
(These weights are without driver in vehicle. Approx 5 litres in fuel tank).
Time to tickle the toes
Toe
The most critical alignment setting relative to tyre wear is the vehicle's toe. If the Toe of your wheel alignment is just slightly out, its affect on your tyres can create rapid and uneven wear.
The toe angle identifies the direction of the tyres compared to the centreline of the vehicle. In the case of a rear-wheel drives, the back-wheels power and 'push' the front tyres, which drag and cause a degree of resistance to work against the suspension arms. Most rear-wheel drive vehicles use positive toe to compensate for this suspension arm displacement. This means that when the front wheels are pushed by the back wheels they favour a toe-in, (negative), configuration.
Front-wheel drives pull the vehicle which results in a forward movement of the suspension arms in their bushings. Due to this pull factor of front-wheel drives their toe is adjusted to be negative. This means that when the back wheels are pulled by the front wheels they favour the toe-out, (positive), configuration.
Toe can also be used to alter a vehicles handling traits. Increased toe-in reduces oversteer, steadies the car and enhances its high-speed stability. Increased toe-out reduces understeer and frees up the car, especially during initial turn-in while entering a corner.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/toe.jpg)
Having read and digested that myself now, I am having a lightbulb moment. To date, the steering has never felt right and we have been looking at the geometry from every angle possible. There is a garage a few miles down the road that have been messing about trying to set up the tracking (unsuccessfully) which is why I have invested in a laser system to do it myself. It was a young lad that last set it up and through no fault of his own, I`m wondering how many rear wheel drive cars he sets up these days as virtually everything on the road is front wheel drive. I'm just wondering if he inadvertently set it as toe-out rather than toe-in, like every other vehicle in his workshop that week? Its certainly a thought and I wish that I had taken some measurements before ripping it all apart again in order to sort out the springs and ride height.
Certainly a distinct possibility. :-\
Time to get the next toy out of the box. As the steering is going to be turned (a lot) I have a set of spin plates to put under the wheels. These are small round discs with a pointed centre that allow the wheels to turn easily and without the friction of the tyres scrubbing the floor. To save me from imprinting my garage floor, I have also put a couple of blocks of wood underneath them too.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022007.jpg)
Before making any adjustments, the next thing I have to do is centralise the steering. This is something that really annoys me when you ask a garage to do this as 99% of them will not bother, and I can hear a few of you reading this and shouting at the screen too. When you get your tracking done at a garage, I would bet money that they either point the wheels straight ahead or make sure the steering wheel is in the middle position before they start. This is wrong, because whilst your wheels may point forwards or the steering wheel is nice and horizontal it does not prevent you from having one anti clockwise rotation of the wheel to turn left and three clockwise rotations to turn right. Very few garages make the effort to find the mid point of the steering rack.
My annoyance is because it is so easy to do. Turn the steering wheel all the way to one side, in my case I turned it as though I was turning hard left. I marked the top of the steering wheel with a bit of tape as a reference point. You then turn the wheel the other way and count how many times you have turned it. In my case it was 2 and 2 third rotations from lock to lock. Take that figure and halve it. In my case its 1 and one third. Turn the wheel back by this figure and you are now at the centre of the steering rack. I used multiple bits of masking tape on mine and it made it even easier to spot where the middle was. If you have got this correct, then you will have an equal number of turns either left or right - don't worry which direction the wheels or steering wheel are currently pointing as we are about to adjust those.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022008.jpg)
This kit also incudes a spring loaded mechanism to lock the wheel in place so that the rack maintains its position whilst you are tugging at everything with a spanner. Note to self: This steering column feels bloody awful and almost as though it is binding somewhere. It is now in a position where I can feel it and can therefore see what is going on, so will come back to that once the wheels are correctly pointing forwards.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022009.jpg)
When I have done this, the steering wheel can be removed and refitted quite easily in the correct position which is not so easy to do on modern cars with airbags fitted. This little sprung loaded spirit level sits inside the steering wheel and I`m just using it as reference to know that nothing has turned despite the wheel being locked in place. The column will be removed afterwards, so steering wheel orientation is not important to me at the moment.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022010.jpg)
When it comes to the actual measurement and adjustments, there are many ways that this can be done. I have witnessed "Old Boys" do this with plumb lines and drawings on the floor and you can easily pick up the older generation of alignment tools with bulbs and mirrors for a real bargain price if you search out second hand ones. As always, I have gone a little O.T.T. here and sourced a rechargeable laser set that does not have any trailing cables.
Just like the Camber Bar, this mechanism sits on the wheel in the same fashion, but this time there are three adjustable studs that must tough the rim.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022011.jpg)
Just like we aligned the Camber bar earlier, these bars also need to be setup, but instead of needing an angle finder, they have a very useful spirit level bubble on each arm. A quick wiggle about on the wheel and you centralise the Bubble for correct alignment.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022012.jpg)
If I have got this set up correctly then the laser from the left will fire across to the printed gauge on the right and give me a reading, and vice versa from the right to the left. Ed has advised me to set this up with between 2 and 4 degrees of Toe In. Time to switch it on and see why my handing was so bad on that recent test drive.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022013.jpg)
;D
I didn't bother with a photo of the other side because it was so far out that it wasn't actually registering on the scale. That would certainly explain some of my poor, but not all of it - there are significant other issues as well, but I will get on to those later. What I need to do now is align the wheels.
Adjustments are made by altering the length between the steering rack and the ball joint at the wheel. This is done in exactly the same way for 99% of the cars out there. Between the steering rack and the ball joint will be a tube secured with a lock nut or clamp at each end which need to be loosened off. This is the hardest part of the job on an older vehicle as they are probably rusty and note that you will also have a left hand thread at one end of the tube to contend with. Once loose, the tube (in my case the Hex Bar) is then rotated and the wheel direction alters.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022015.jpg)
A bit of movement on each side and you can see the laser marks coming in to play.
Ed said between 2 and 4 degrees, which with my maths is 3. Didn't take long to get this and I am grinning like a Cheshire cat at this point. :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022014.jpg)
I'm going to sound like a bad JML advert on the telly now "But wait . . . There's More . . "
Whilst the tracking may now look good, there is nothing to suggest that the front wheels are in line with the rear wheels. The beauty of the laser aligner that I have bought is that as well as firing a line side to side, it also fires a couple backwards as well in order to align all four wheels. With the rear hangers fitted to the rear wheels I now have another two scales to check. I will be honest here in that I have no idea what these rear measurements are, or supposed to be, but If I fiddle about with the front wheel tracking as I did before, it also alters the alignment at the rear. So, I am working on the theory that as long as the front ones are maintained at 3 degrees and the rear settings are equal, I cannot be far out. Everything would suggest that all four wheels are now in a straight line.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022016.jpg)
You have to be very careful when tightening everything up, as the slightest rotation of the bar can alter the readings quite dramatically, but all said and done, it was a fairly straightforward job to do that only took around half an hour from start to finish. Not as scary as it sounds.
8)
It`s amazing just how handy the invention of a laser beam has become in all walks of life.....
Dave. I think you should set up an alignment centre of your own down there in sunny Paignton for the Tor Bay area.
Sadly Dave is correct.... take your buggy to a local garage set up to have the tracking checked and reset is a waste of time in most cases. (Not all however so ask around). They will simply stick their equipment on... slacken one of the tie bars adjust and pass you the invoice. This results in incorrect tracking and your steering wheel offset from straight ahead. Centralising the steering box is crucial. (Dave of course doesn`t have a standard box but the principles remain) . You will know when you have a tracking issue. One edge of each tyre will be shaved off in a very short time....
Dave keep the photo`s coming..... a picture paints a thousand words I think the saying goes... ;-)up ;-)up
I have not tried this out on the road yet, because I am very mindful of a comment that Farmer Rob also made about not forgetting to sort out the rear suspension as well. He makes a very valid point, because as bad as my handling was, it was as evenly bad at the front as it was at the back, which did mean that the car was at least balanced and equally terrible at all four corners.
Many years ago, when I swapped my engine over for the extra heavy 2 litre one, my rear torsion bars and adjustable spring plates were also changed over at the same time due to the extra weight now at the rear. That period in time is always a bit of a blur as it was also around the time that Lisa got rushed into hospital with some very serious injuries and a mate of mine offered to change these over for me whilst I was sitting by her bedside. He had always messed round with Beetles, so I had no need to ever question his work and greatly appreciated the offer at the time. The car always felt stiff and heavy on its return, but as a new engine had also gone in I didn't really know any better and just learned to live with it. I resigned myself to accepting that was a self built Kit Car, and that's how they probably handle and in fairness, the others I had driven at the time didn't seem to have any less faults either.
Now that the front is lovely and soft it dramatically enhances the almost solid rear that is now jumping up and down whilst the front nose dives, making the car really unpleasant and absolutely lethal to drive. I can now lean on the bonnet and the front end dips down and has a nice smooth movement, but as for the rear, I can jump up and down on the rear cage and it doesn't budge an inch. Its rock solid. The only movement I have at the rear seems to be from the sidewalls of the tyres flexing. There are many comments about tyre pressures and making sure you have worn out or soft shocks on the back - well I removed my shocks, completely let all of the air out of the tyres and it made no difference whatsoever - that rear is as tight as tight can be.
Seized? Broken? Incorrect? I had no idea. So, with a beer in hand, I decided to embark on a long night of research into the workings of rear suspension.
(I only mention the beer, because if I have got this wrong, then I can at least blame the booze for my ramblings) (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Huh%20Read.gif)
My initial thoughts were to junk the whole rear and go for coil over spring replacements, but after some late night communications with Imohr, Red9, Mendola and Moore Parts in the USA who all sell variants of a torsion bar eliminator kit, it was very obvious that this idea was a non starter because the rear cast shock absorber towers are not strong enough to support the weight of the car on their own (not even when using Kafer bars) and the metal is easily broken. Some forums talk of using Coil Overs as spring assisters to the torsion bars and some also mention airbags which would lead to a real mix of trial and error, but as every thread I read was either about slamming the car to the floor, or going to the other extreme of jumping sand dunes, I kept going around in circles. Bottom line though is that if you want to use rear Coil Overs, then you need to fabricate some new shock absorber mounts along with something to attach them to. My brain however, kept telling me that whilst I may have a heavier engine, I also have a much lighter body and it cannot be far off from the original weight. There was simply no reason why the original setup should not work here.
I learnt a lot about the different setups that VW use. There is the traditional Swing Arm system that many of you have, and the rest of you probably have the Independent or IRS at the rear. These are easy to work out which is which at a glance and I won't bore you with that one here. I wanted to focus more on the actual torsion bars themselves because my very limited understanding was that shorter bars are stiffer than long bars, which whilst technically correct, was also completely incorrect.
Looking just in front of the rear wheels where the torsion bar cover is, some cars have a flat cover plate and some have a long tube protruding through it. I had never really looked any harder at them than that and thought there were simply long and short bar types. Again, I have got his wrong too as it would appear that there are actually three different lengths. They all seem to be pretty much interchangeable as long as you use the correct type of corresponding spring plate to go with them. Long bar, you need a long spring plate, short bar, short spring plate, etc etc.
The lengths are:
Short: 21 3/4" or 553mm Identifiable by having a flat cover plate
Medium: 24 11/16" 0r 627mm Identifiable by having a bar that sticks out around 4 inches (roughly mid way on the tyre)
Long: 29 9/16" 0r 675mm Identifiable by having a bar that sticks out around 6 inches (just past the edge of the floorpan)
I can understand that being torsion bars, that they have a correct and incorrect rotation, and any second hand bars must be refitted back to the same side that they came from (left goes to left, right to right etc) and there are many stories of them fracturing if they start to be used in a different direction to that of the last 40 years or so. I have seen blue and red ones, but cannot find any information to suggest that colours may help to identify them.
So I am thinking that I may need to replace my torsion bars - obviously I would need a matched pair, but do you go for old saggy ones or brand new? Of course I am going for the brand new ones and whilst searching the net, I was faced with the usual set of VW Purchase Options that we are all very much familiar with these days. Unaffordable, OEM, Cheap Chinese Rubbish or something called Heavy Duty. Naturally, when we are faced with this we all tend to go for the Heavy Duty or Best Quality option in the misguided hope that we are getting the best quality and most suitable version. Purchasing this way could not be further from the truth.
I have been gobsmacked by how little information is out there regarding torsion bars, and the only thing you will find is the chart that tells you about how many inner and outer splines you need to select to give you different ride heights and then endless rants by those that are struggling to adjust theirs with limited success. I think I have just uncovered something that very few people have taken into account.
I have had a Eureka moment ! (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Shocked%20Read.gif)
Torsion bars not only come in different lengths, but they also come in different diameters, and its these different diameters that are the different spring weights. It's bloody obvious when you think about it and everybody I have spoken to has raised their eyebrows in astonishment that they are not sold this way. A rear torsion bar for a Beetle Saloon is obviously going to need a heavier bar than that of a Beetle Convertible, and that's different to a Ghia or a Type 3. Whilst it may not be too noticeable putting the wrong bar into a heavy Beetle it sure as hell makes a huge difference in a lightweight Buggy. Why do none of the parts factors have this information available, and why are they all selling these bars by "Quality" instead of the load weight capability?
After yet another very long and sleepless night, I have put this information together in the hope that it may help others :-)Geek
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/torsionbarspringrate.jpg)
So where does that leave me . . .
The rear end needs stripping down anyway, and whatever is in there is not working, so I may as well have a set of bars to hand to pop back in. My thoughts are as follows. From previous measurements taken, I know that the back end of the car on the scales was 240kg and 233kg, so give or take, its around 465kg with that 2 litre engine in place. Add the weight of the driver (albeit distributed over all four wheels) and the 26mm short bar weight of 520kg is looking like a reasonably good place to start. I think the 27mm bar may be a bit too heavy, and the goal here is to make it soft enough for me to drive on my own.
I have just received a set of 26mm MAHLE bars from VW Heritage who at least now list them by diameter even if they have no idea on spring weights.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022017.jpg)
They seem to be marked on the ends with a letter indicating size and a direction of rotation
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022018.jpg)
And as I have a deep mistrust of any parts arriving these days, it doesn't hurt to double check :-X
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022019.jpg)
As something is very wrong with this back end, this is now being tackled under the watchful eye of my mate Adam from AJ's VW Services in Paignton overseeing every step of the way to ensure that this time around everything at least goes back together as it should. Interestingly, he knew nothing of the load rates either and was quite keen to see if I was right.
So, the moment of truth - Time to dismantle the rear end and see what I have in there
:-\
Logic when modifying cars has always dictated that Heavy Duty is better than regular, but the opposite is true when your car weighs the same as a badly packed, wet paper bag 😂😂😂
I questioned the then owner of Red 9 at a show once about the wisdom of relying on front and rear Beetle damper mounts as sole anchors for the suspension when doing away with torsion bars. He looked blankly at me, turned round and walked off. Wonderful customer service...not!
Strange that 50's beetles used the long bars but when they widened the rear track in the mid 60's buy going to longer drive shafts they put the shorter torsion bars in but then went back to longer for IRS presumably for better ride quality. You also have single and twin spring plates to add into the equation.
The heavy cast motor in the kango is on long irs bars with twin spring plates with it just sitting on the Gaz coil overs but the rear end works a treat..
Quote from: Manxdavid on April 29, 2022, 01:30:41 PM
I questioned the then owner of Red 9 at a show once about the wisdom of relying on front and rear Beetle damper mounts as sole anchors for the suspension when doing away with torsion bars. He looked blankly at me, turned round and walked off. Wonderful customer service...not!
Probably just glad you didn't mention their welding
The torsion bars are fitted with a small amount of tension applied, called "pre-load" and when they are fitted, you have to lift them over a small lip. This does mean that when you try to remove them, you need a small pry bar or screwdriver and they can go with a bit of a thud when the tension is released. Be careful else its goodbye fingers. There are special torsion bar tools available to clamp everything together, and I would strongly recommend to invest in this tool before tackling this job.
My rear suspension is rock hard against this small lip, so I reckon its either seized or more likely, under a lot of tension from an incorrectly sized bar.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022020.jpg)
Over to Adam for this bit, and I am glad I did as we were not expecting what happened next. Losing a few fingers under a bit of tension? More like losing an arm !
In fact, if you look up into the night sky over the next few months, you may catch a glimpse of something like this . . . . .
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/spanner.jpg)
And I will be forever wondering how far my favourite 17mm spanner will travel before returning back to the earth. :o
I knew it was under tension, and the spring plates that normally rotate by a few degrees or so, managed just over 90 degrees before coming to rest. That had been fitted so badly. The spring plates were removed and the elusive torsion bars were then withdrawn for a close inspection. This was not what I had expected to see, nor what I was hoping to have found.
The Good News was that everything came apart really nicely. Nothing had seized and nothing had broken. That was a relief. ;-)up
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022021.jpg)
The Bad News however, was the Red bar that came out. Without measuring it, you can immediately see the difference in size to my new Blue bars. ::)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022022.jpg)
That was not only a smaller 22mm diameter bar and the thinnest that VW made, but it made me question everything I had just learned about spring rates, as that bar, at 267kg was also half the load weight of the bar that I was to replace it with. I knew that I had weighed the rear of my car and it came out at around 240Kg either side. Had I got this all wrong? Was I looking at individual bar weights or total rear axle weights? This was undoubtedly going to be a long and very sleepless night.
And then I had another Eureka moment :D
Nobody that I have so far chatted with seems to know anything about torsion bar load rates, let alone the different diameter of bars available. Everybody does know how to jack a car up or slam it to the floor by changing the position of the spring plates on the splines. And this is what I suspect had happened. When those weak 22mm bars were fitted, the back of the car would have sat so low that the engine would have been dragging itself along the ground. Faced with that, the splines would have been adjusted accordingly, again and again and again until they could be adjusted no more due to being under so much tension that it would not have been possible to adjust them any further. The problem here is that the springs are now at the limit of their physical rotation and the suspension has become what is known as "Coil Bound" - or Rock Solid. I had this issue on the front when playing with springs, so was at least familiar with the concept.
I figured that I had spent countless hours working out these spring weights and now that I had sourced a set of brand new 26mm bars that I may as well go for it and put them in. If I was wrong, then they would be even more solid that the red 22mm ones that came out, and there was still a slim chance that I may actually have got this right after all.
So here goes. :-\
I'm thinking your assumption about the old bars being coil bound must be correct. To my mind, with all the other factors mentioned, it makes too much sense for it not to be correct. But hey, I'm no engineer.
As you say the constant is the weight of the buggy both bars will have the same load to get the same ride height the difference is the amount of torsional twist on the bars and how they allow more twist as the suspension goes up.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/cheerleader.gif)(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/cheerleader.gif) (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif) (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/cheerleader.gif)(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/cheerleader.gif)
I now have significant movement on the back end and I can push the rear of the car up and down fairly easily. To say that I am chuffed to bits is a bit of an understatement. This was looking really good and so I thought I would try a quick trip around the block. No longer was I relying on my tyre side walls for suspension, and this quick drive felt quite promising. I obviously need to put a few miles on it before I know if it has worked fully and I may need to play about with ride heights and setting up the geometry again, but so far, things seem to be moving in the right direction.
Couldn't really say the same for the notchy steering though. :o
The steering wheel rotation was very smooth for around 350 degrees, but that last little bit would literally snatch the wheel out of my hands and spin at great speed which did little to inspire any confidence when trying to drive. It was a bit scary if I'm honest. Although the universal joint spiders were correctly in line, I tried releasing and rotating them a few degrees to make sure that nothing was locking up. It made a little bit of a difference, but not much.
My steering column is a mismatch of VW and XR3i bits and very badly welded together. So I thought I would chop it in half and try to re-weld it again, but this time try and get it a little straighter. It made a huge difference and proved that the deviation at the end of the column by a few millimetres was now the root cause of my steering problems. I have also noticed that my (very brief) use of the steering with a bent column has actually bent the centre spider in one of the universal joints too, which was not so good as it no longer rotates smoothly.
And that has forced me to make a decision about what to do next.
I obviously need to replace that failed universal joint. My steering column is now made from so many sections badly welded together in an uneven line that even Dr Frankenstein would raise his eyebrows at it, and if I'm honest, I never did get around to sorting out the alignment angle of the shaft when I last had it apart either. So, I have decided to rip the entire lot out and start again with something that has fewer welds in place.
I know that the Mk4 Golf seems to be a popular Column of choice amongst many people due to its multiple adjustment capabilities, and it just so happens that I have a couple of those in the garage leftover from another project - So I will investigate the possibilities of using that instead
Well after the umpteenth time of stripping the car down I think I have found the offending article and the reason for my erratic steering. I always knew that the main steering column was bent, but when trying to join two bits of smaller shafts together for the universal joint, it would appear that I have managed to get them a few degrees out of alignment, which has not only put a significant amount of pressure on the universal joints, but has actually twisted and damaged the spider of the lighter weight joint I have just fitted. The joint no longer turns freely. I have now learnt the hard way that if you are trying to join two shafts together that you have to be a bit more precise than simply doing it by eye and hoping that they are still perfectly in line after they have cooled down after being welded.
Bugger. Time to tackle Plan B (and yes, I have started the Alphabet again as run out of numbers for Plan D/E/F . . . )
I am fortunate enough to work closely with a lot of breakers yards for decoding and repairing their radio's, because it does mean that if I ever need any spares to play with, I can just shout and they miraculously turn up along with a few radio's that require attention. When I was researching the whole steering rack concept a while back, I took note of the MK4 Golf column that Chad used when designing the DOON and I ended up with a couple of them here to play with.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/golfmk4column.jpg)
I can certainly see why Chad went for this as it offers almost infinite adjustment positions that we see in modern cars from both height adjustment and also the ability to pull or push the steering wheel away from you to suit your driving position. It dismantles into three sections that each slide in and out and for my lack of precision approaches, it looks like it may be a good one to play with. It has an oddball 22 spline on the end where it bolts directly to a Golf steering box, but that was easy to solve by liberating a freebie steering box input shaft from a crash damaged Golf MK6 with a bent rack.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/golfmk6box.jpg)
An idea was starting to formulate in my head and I reckoned it should be straightforward to cobble a few bits together to make something, but this time there are a few elements that would require some proper fabrication, such as making some sleeved joints for any shafts to fit in and line up correctly before welding, nothing that complex, and nothing that would take more than a few minutes on a lathe to make.
And therein lies the problem. :(
Not that many years ago, we had a lot of true engineers out there. The Country was full of "Old Boys" with sheds in the back garden, and you could always locate of a friend of a friend who had a lathe and could turn a few bits for you in exchange for beer tokens. Sadly, most of those guys are now either in Old Folks Homes, or no longer with us, and the shed contents have long gone to the knackers yard as the family offload their worldly possessions. Its the same around here now and as I cannot find anyone with a back street workshop, reluctantly I have to resort to the area I hate the most for a solution - The Industrial Estate. Nothing wrong with having anything bespoke made from a professional outfit. You will often get a quality piece made that will be exactly what you ask for, but this is not a great approach when doing things as trial and error and you are a little unsure about dimensions. That's where the Old Boys came in, because they would trim a bit, cut a bit, fettle a bit, and it would eventually be perfect - it just might take a few attempts, which was part of the enjoyment factor too and how I learned to do stuff myself.
As a guess, and to cover most outcomes, I reckoned on needing approximately three components to be made so that the different diameter (and shaped) shafts could slide inside each other correctly and then be welded into place as the alignment would this time be correct. I may not actually need that many, but its handy to have a few shapes and bits to play around with when fabricating something as a one off.
You would not believe the reaction I have had around here. Most engineering firms do not want to do one off bits and those that do want full blown engineering blueprints and drawings before they would even talk to me or quote.
One piece I definitely needed was a small tube, around 60mm long with a lip at one end and a 15mm hole through the middle. The only firm that would talk to me wanted to charge over a hundred quid for making this piece alone with significant charges for any additional machining and setting up. This was ridiculous. Its around ten minutes work, I kid you not, and after quite a heated argument with them I reckoned that I could actually buy my own lathe for what they were wanting to charge me for all of the bits that I may need - and it turns out I was right.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/ebay.gif)
That night, whilst still fuming from the altercation earlier, I set about the Internet to see if there were any Old Boys left nearby that could help. Facebook, engineering societies, restoration clubs, etc etc, I tried them all. At just past midnight, I came across an advert on Gumtree that had literally only just been posted six minutes earlier by a man who was not only selling his late fathers small modelling lathe, but was located less than two miles down the road. It was clear that he did not know exactly what he was selling, what it was actually worth, and when I noticed the numerous boxes of tools and chucks that came with it, it was obvious he just wanted it cleared and quickly. I immediately messaged him that as I was within a few minutes of his location, I could collect it first thing in the morning. More with the intention of reselling it to make a few quid as I knew what lathes can cost. I got an instant reply that if it could be at breakfast time, before he went to work it would suit him great. Sure enough, at 7:30am I was driving home with a boot full of lathe and tools. There was no way I could chance haggling with him as he had quite a long list of people who were not only telling him what it was worth, but also wanting to place an immediate deposit. We had agreed a price though and I had turned up on time with cash.
But, Oh Boy, has this one backfired on me big time. :'(
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/lathe.jpg)
Lisa and I met at engineering college many years ago, and I can no longer take her into Machine Mart in Exeter. By the door is a small lathe with a rather large £1200 price tag and she is drawn to it like a bee to a honey pot. I have always said no as for that price I would want a proper full sized one. But over the years it has become a standing joke now in our household as whenever I have to own up to filling her shed with stuff I cannot cram into the garage, the immediate reply is either "Not more bloody wheels" or "it is a lathe?"
She nearly choked on her cornflakes when I had to admit that I had just unloaded one into her shed, that it was not for keeps, it was to resell, and I think she could see from my posture that unloading it from the car on my own was probably not the best thing I should have done. Its heavier than it looks, but was also a bit of a twist to get it out of my car, down the side of the van and into her shed. I could hardly catch up with her as she ran outside, and when I reached over to plug it in, that's when things went quite badly with a TWANG !
:'(
Three weeks later, after being heavily sedated and immobilised for ripping and tearing a deep muscle in my left shoulder, I am now able to at least sit up and write this bit after the intervention of a physio, and hopefully I might get to walk outside to see this lathe again before she wears it out.
Hundred quid for that part seems like a bargain now. ::)
Dave the description - twang - of your injury is a horrid read. The only up side is you are surely past the worst of the pain and able to make it part of a humorous tale....
However, it is great to realise you are equipping yourself (lathe etc) for the future so that you can replenish the stock of 'Old Boys in sheds' by becoming one yourself.
Perhaps you can start a category in the Forum - Old Boys in sheds looking for practice.
Well, near a couple of months have passed and I still have very restricted movement but I am determined to get into the garage even if it is just for a few minutes at a time in order to sort out my Buggy. I don't need all the height adjustment stuff that the Column comes with, so I have removed it all and stripped the column down to its basic components making it a bit easier to work with.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022023.jpg)
This was then centralised in line with my seat, the correct steering column angle determined and then held in place with a G-Clamp. One of the brackets removed earlier proved to be an ideal fit and was bolted alongside the column so that I could tack weld it in place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022024.jpg)
Now that I had fixed points both top and bottom, all I need to do now is join them together. Thanks to the extending nature of this column, it meant that I could get the end of the shaft quite close to the steering rack and use 2 universal joints. I was really pleased with this as using a third joint would also mean incorporating some form of bearing to prevent the shaft from moving side to side and keeping everything in line.
However, the Golf Column has a square extending tube and my rack had a round input shaft and I was very conscious that this critical alignment was where I went very wrong last time. This time though I had a cunning plan. If you recall that bit I mentioned earlier than needed a second mortgage to fabricate it, well its the small round sleeve here that did only take me a few minutes to make on my new lathe.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022025.jpg)
It fits snugly inside the square tube and my round steering shaft now can slide in and out until the correct length can be determined.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022026.jpg)
A quick bit of welding and an hour or two with the angle grinder to tidy it up and Voila - Round Peg in a Square Hole - Perfectly aligned (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022027.jpg)
I have also welded some extra column support brackets at the bulkhead end, just to prevent any unwanted flex from me tugging on the steering wheel.
So far, so good ;-)up
::) Something I had not really considered . . .
I currently use Ford Escort XR3i switchgear as everything is contained within a single unit. Lights, Wipers, Hazard Switch and Indicator Relays, all located in one place which made wiring them up quite easy. The horse shoe nature of the switch meant it fitted on the column quite nicely. The Golf column is a fair bit larger in diameter which of course means my simple switch solution no longer fits.
::) :-X :-X :-X Not enough swear words here - Its bad enough not being able to drive it >:(
The new obvious choice of stalk controls would be the Golf MK4 to match the column, but as I am not really a fan of loads of buttons that don't do anything such as cruise control, I have opted to use the ones from the VW Bora as they didn't have rear wash wipe on them either. If I use the Airbag Squib ring I get some good wires to connect to the horn push without twisting and as a real added bonus, I get self cancelling indicators too. I have an old Headlight switch kicking about from a Vauxhall Belmont that can be used and a Hazard switch from CBS should be arriving shortly.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022028.jpg)
Time to tackle the wiring ;-)up
I've often heard the term "Brain Fog" but just dismissed it as a similar phrase to having a "Blonde" moment. The painkillers I am currently on due to my injury are Neurological ones and they can affect the way you function. For instance, the other day I was walking down the stairs and stopped midway. I knew I had to continue walking but my Body had decided to just stop and I could not find a way to move again. I just stood there puzzled. Its quite frustrating at times wanting to either do or say something when everything is being processed perfectly in your head, but the body says "No". No sympathy from Liz either, a she has had these drugs herself and remembers me giving her a hard time about some of her more comical side effects.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022029.jpg)
If I thought that trying to use the Lathe was hard work on medication, fathoming out the wiring just blew my mind - and quite a few fuses too. At least I had the sense to connect it all up temporarily with chocolate blocks to see what worked, and I can then tidy up the wiring later.
Dave sorry to read you are still heavily medicated and are - at times - struggling to operate your own body.
That wiring image shocks me as its the sort of thing I'd have and be quite proud of but thought your green metal flake body concealed factory standard wiring ie all neatly secured in straight lines with sealed water proof junctions and no excessive slack....
Liz's lack of sympathy is actually kindness as she wants you to push on to full recovery rather than lapse into an unnecessary dependent state.
Quote from: Hugh on July 11, 2022, 05:39:32 PM
That wiring image shocks me as its the sort of thing I'd have and be quite proud of but thought your green metal flake body concealed factory standard wiring ie all neatly secured in straight lines with sealed water proof junctions and no excessive slack....
Don't worry - it will be tidied up before it all goes back together again ;-)up
That's what my wiring looked like before I replaced it, only without any decent plugs or connectors, just chocolate blocks, mostly rusty ones
You'll get there
With the sun shining down here, and everything electrical now functioning as it should, I have given the column a quick coat of Satin Black that dried the minute it hit the metalwork. It has now been bolted into place using the brackets I welded on front and back, as is very rigidly mounted indeed.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022030.jpg)
The Steering Column is now in line, central to my driving position but not quite central to the clocks - there is a story behind that one, but won't bore you here with it. I can however see the clocks clearly through the steering wheel which I have never been able to do that well thanks to the column being an inch higher that it was previously.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022031.jpg)
I have decided to try and use the Heavy Duty Universal Joints again as the lighter weight replacements I previously used bent the spider bearing a little too easily for my liking and self destructed in less than half a mile of use. I have shaved the edges off the square sides though and rounded them off a bit as it gives me another couple of degrees of operating angle as I am dangerously close to the working tolerance as it is.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022032.jpg)
Hope this works ok. :-\
One of the annoyances of modern VAG plastics is that they seem to cover them with biodegradable rubber coatings that scratch and age really badly. A bit of T-Cut and you can soon remove the rubber and expose the smooth black plastics underneath. The switches are all now mounted and fully functional. I have put the light switch where the ignition key would go as I run Keyless ignition. I know that some will raise their eyebrows about not having a steering lock, but as I tow the car a fair bit these days, I just don't want any keys left in the ignition whilst I do so.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022033.jpg)
And with the switches in place, the wiring can be cut to length, terminated and tidied up with some loom tape - No cable ties his time ;D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022034.jpg)
Hi Dave. Should have given me a shout. I worked out all the wiring on the golf mk4 stalks years ago.
Especially the headlight flash which works through the stalk and doesn't require a switching relay..
Thanks Chad, but Golf Wiring was the easy bit - Fathoming out my over complex electrics was the hard bit :-)Geek
After getting it all back together and a massive intake of pain pills, I thought I would chance my luck in trying to drive it around the block.
Mixed results really, but mostly positive. The ride quality had certainly improved, and after a quick jaunt down the road I found that the rear was bouncing about a bit too much, so I increased the settings on my adjustable shocks by a few clicks and the results were instantly noticeable. Wow, the ride was really smooth and for once, it was very pleasant to be sitting in. A bit of fine tuning and fettling with the Gaz shocks and tyre pressures may still be required, but overall, I am pleased with the results and finally think that my suspension woes are over at long last..
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
The new electrics seemed to perform perfectly, which given my profession as an Auto Electrician, they certainly should - Another big tick in the box.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
The steering however was dreadful. It was really twitchy and all over the place. I double checked the settings and all four wheels were perfectly in line with the toe set at bang on 3 degrees as I had been told, but it felt horrible. Over the last few months, I am starting to develop a deep mistrust of anything that Manufacturers or Suppliers tell me, (Heavy duty rear suspension saga for example) and when trying to build a bespoke car that is not the norm, it is getting somewhat frustrating when you need technical data. So, like the rear suspension, I decided, Sod everybody, and try working it out for yourself. To me, the toe in of the wheels felt a bit too much, as the slightest touch of the wheel would send it hurtling in that direction. I know that rear wheel drive cars must have an element of toe in, so I backed it off to one degree, and you know what? It drove perfectly in a straight line.
Notice I said straight line though . . . . ::)
Steering Geometry now feels fine, but the actual steering itself was incredibly heavy, far heavier than I was expecting (although could be my injury) but I am suspecting that rather than having a standard Mini Rack in there, that I may have been supplied with a Quick rack instead. Could be wrong here and one I need to investigate at a later date, but a quick rack means that instead of turning the wheel 2.7 turns from lock to lock, you only turn it 2.2 turns. Doesn't sound much on paper, but it makes a huge difference to the car. It basically means that the wheel direction changes a lot faster with the downside that the gearing of the steering rack makes for a heavier operation.
The other problem though was that the steering still felt a little "Notchy" with a very mild "fast" and "slow" operation as the wheel is turned. Drivable? For sure, but I am very mindful that the last time I did this I ended up almost snapping a Universal Joint within a very short time. I was hesitant about those Heavy Duty universal joints when putting them back together and even shaved the sides to give a better working angle as something just didn't feel right in my head about them. Going back to my mistrust of Manufacturer information, I note that the CBS website have now drastically reduced the operational angle of those joints as they have obviously been caught out by the lies they are telling in order to sell them. Not just a misprint as I have had many conversations about these.
>:(
So, back to the drawing board, or rather the garage, to strip it all down again and have another play. My injury means that my summer driving has been pretty much wiped out anyway, so I may as well delve deeper into this and get it right. This time I am going to ignore all of the Manufacturer data and do it my way. The Golf column will stay, the steering rack may be swapped out for a standard Mini one if that is the case, or may just do that later as the connections will be the same, but I need to join the two together with a few more joints to get a smoother angle on each one which also means the introduction of some support bearings too.
Deja Vu ::)
An update on my Plan B, for the umpteenth time around. ::)
Still not back in the garage properly, but am now managing to do a little bit at a time whilst the pain killers kick in, but it has given me a chance to look carefully at what is going on with my steering. Every time I look online at these Universal Joint specifications, the operating angle seems to be quoted differently from website to website, and even the suppliers have changed their information countless times. It makes it quite hard when trying to engineer a solution when everything that you are being told about the correct way of doing things doesn't seem to work, and the best solutions I have found so far is by ignoring what I am being told and doing things my own way - So here goes yet again.
The operating angle of the Universal Joint is obviously much less than they all say, so what I need to do is spread the angle from the steering column to the rack over more joints. More joints mean each one is operating at a lesser angle. That's fairly easy to do as I have another joint here and several bits of bar that can be trialled, and the sliding section of the steering column means that small adjustments are easy to make to the overall length.
There is however a problem when using lots of joints in that it is possible for the whole section to physically move to one side and lock up, and to prevent this from happening you need to fit some form of bearing or support when more than two joints are placed together. On a conventional car, this would be a bearing or support where the column fits through the firewall, and you could have 2 universal joints on either side of it. Due to the restricted space here, I actually have the body of a Universal joint passing through my firewall, so what I need to do is add a support bearing in place. Pretty much what I did a few attempts ago when playing with my Banana shaped column.
A bit of chopping and welding, a few hundred Ibuprofen, 10 minutes on the lathe, and I have ended up with an extra joint and a support bearing in place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022035.jpg)
The sliding section of the steering column can now be extended and as a result, I can change the position of where the universal joints actually sit. Once I am happy with the layout and orientation of them, the support bearing is welded in place using the brackets I had left over from last time.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022036.jpg)
By also rotating the steering rack a few degrees as I thought I could do many months ago (and was told not to by the same person that insisted that 2 universal joints would suffice) this has made a huge difference to the operating angles as you can see:
Before:
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022032.jpg)
and After:
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022037.jpg)
That looks so much better to me, and now for the moment of truth . . . . Can I turn the steering wheel? . . . . .
Did it work ? :-\
You need a good credit card and one of these https://www.flamingriver.com/fr20302-vdog-variable-angle-gear-billet-option
Never seen one of those before......
Dave sorry to learn you are still heavily sedated/mediacted.
Joking appart the pain and chemicals will challenege and alter your mood and thinking ability...
So what is the answer - did the steering wheel turn ?!
Thanks Keith . . . . :o
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022038.jpg)
No . . . I really didn't need to see that just now ::)
Reason being, I thought I would try turning the steering wheel in the garage before putting the front of the car back together, and guess what . . . .
. . . . the steering feels just as "Notchy" as it did before. Nothing has changed in the slightest.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Cry%201.gif)
Even with the front partially raised to take the weight off, and wheel plates underneath the front, turning the steering wheel in one direction felt fairly smooth and positive, but when turned in the other direction, there is a point where it feels a bit tight for just a split second and then it feels good again. When I last drove this on the road, that little tight spot felt awful because when you compensated for the tight spot and turned a little harder, a moment later the tight spot had passed and due to the extra force applied, you were now oversteering, which had some dramatic consequences I can tell you. This time though, doing it a controlled environment in the garage, rather than on the road, it soon became apparent that it was happening at exactly the same point each time with the steering wheel just a few degrees from centre.
I was pulling my hair out - and there is precious little of that left. :-\
I had fabricated an entire new shaft, sure the last one was banana shaped and bent a U/J but this new straight one felt just the same. All of the Universal Joints have been replaced, including the one at the end of the Golf steering column - and it still feels the same. The operational angle of the joints is now vastly different than before - and it doesn't feel any different.
:-\
I am really clutching at straws now and wondering if the steering rack itself may be faulty? Maybe the input shaft is bent or has twisted under the force of turning very wide tyres. I must be honest here and state that I feel the standard Mini Rack supplied is a very poor choice to use here as the gear ratio used was designed for little 10" diameter skinny wheels on a Mini, and trying to turn my hulking great 235/60/15 wheels when stationary is somewhat challenging. Have I maybe bent something here?
:-\
I was just about to go online and look for a new rack, and I may end up swapping it out anyway as the "Quick Rack" for the Mini has a better gear ratio that may prove more suitable and was used with 12" wheels, but I was racking my brain to think of anything that had remained constant throughout this saga, and wondering had I been told to do anything that I had got wrong or at least not double checked. The only thing I could think of was the orientation of the universal joint spyders.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/rules.gif)
They must be in line and it is written in every car build manual that this is the case. It is Verbatim. It is one of those things that is so well understood and documented that it should never even be questioned, and sure enough, my spyders were perfectly aligned as anything else would actually introduce something akin to my problems. I even wondered what difference it would make if I did introduce a known fault and how it would feel. Never tried it, and my inquisitive mind was now asking unanswered questions that would take literally ten minutes with a spanner to find out. So I spun the spyders through 180 degrees just to see what would happen as I had nothing to lose. It really went against the grain doing this and sure enough, the result was immediate.
How the hell could this be? How come my steering wheel now rotated perfectly? :-\
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022039.jpg)
I should be really happy now, but I`m bloody annoyed as I have wasted so much time trying to cure a problem of something that was actually correctly assembled. Maybe there is a problem with joining two steering joints back to back in close proximity, but if there is, I cannot find any mention of it, and scouring the interweb for pictures of steering columns from various cars, they are all assembled the correct way.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/brickwall1.gif)
So I decided to cheer myself up by adding a new Momo Steering Wheel as my old one was starting to look a little battered from the abuse it has been getting.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2022040.jpg)
Not road tested it yet, and still have to put the bonnet back on which may take a while - but actually feeling quite hopeful.
:-X
Yes both arrangements - phased and incorrect phased will 'work' ie transmit a turning twisting force but the forces are more subtle at each UJ.
If you imagine 'looking' along the shaft and turning the phased set up the first UJ twists on a cylinder so the rotational force on the connecting piece is not all 'down the centre line' but some is slightly to the side as the cylinder starts to move. This 'side' force is balanced by its attempt to transmit the force by twisting the far end UJ (0 degrees different) in the opposite way.
In the unphased set up the slightly to the side force at the first UJ is transmitted to the next UJ which is 90 degrees out of phase so further tries to move the second UJ slightly to the side...
I must admit when first looking at the 2 diagrams I thought the answer was they would turn indentically but then realised the 2 UJs each have a slight sideways (tangential) force due to the cylinder nature of the joint itself.
Took a few times to read that - but I get it ;-)up
That was a really good explanation, and I can now see how phasing could introduce the vibrations and problems associated with Universal Joints. Just hoping that the "sideways" movement you describe is not going to cause problems down the road with premature wear etc.
Is it maybe my choice of universal joints themselves that are the issue, rather than the phasing?
???
Yes it's tricky to visualise but what really matters are the forces at the exact point of contact which are on curved axles.
I imagine the 'sideways' unwanted part of the twist is greater in smaller and looser UJs as the cylinder or axle is smaller diameter and tangential movement easier.
Quality of the UJs will dictate longevity. I suspect you'll detect chattering or slippage of the steering wheel at set turn positions if they wear.
Interestingly land rover front propshaft joints were misaligned to run smoothly.
Quote from: snoopy on October 11, 2022, 02:53:24 PM
Interestingly land rover front propshaft joints were misaligned to run smoothly.
Didn't know that ???
Here is a picture https://www.paddockspares.com/frc6243-front-propshaft-v8-to-ca254406.html
So you could try a misalignment.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5NFPvKT8/landyprop.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Quote from: snoopy on October 11, 2022, 05:03:17 PM
Here is a picture https://www.paddockspares.com/frc6243-front-propshaft-v8-to-ca254406.html
So you could try a misalignment.
Well if Landrover can make a propshaft that is 45 degrees or so out, knowing the forces that will be applied to that have given me absolute confidence that my little steering universal joint should be fine.
Brilliant ! ;-)up
:D
Now that my Buggy has an MOT, and a few miles have been done, I feel that its time to finally answer a few of the many comments and questions that have been repeatedly fired my way in the last few months with regard to the front suspension setup.
Q. Why did you change the front end in the first place?
That's an easy answer. My Buggy was famous for being one of the worst if not THE worst handling cars out there. Everything was either seized, rusted or so badly fitted that nothing appeared to move. The Buggy has always been like this and I have done thousands of miles in it not knowing any different. But it was such a bone shaker that Lisa is now Physically struggling to be a passenger following her Brain Surgery. I had to do something - and in hindsight, I should have changed the passenger instead.
Q. Why not just replace the original VW setup? What was so wrong with that?
I cannot fault the original VW setup, its simple and it works brilliantly. However, my Beam had been welded up too many times due to rust, the steering box was knackered and the bearings are all kaput. But in reality, have you ever actually tried to buy a new front end? New parts are made from cheese. The quality of the after market parts out there are not as good as they should be and things like steering boxes are virtually non-existent. If you price up a complete front end, and I do mean COMPLETE, then by the time you have added up all the bushes, bearings, arms, joints and shocks as well, you would be amazed as to how close to £3K you get to replace it all - not actually much different to what I spent doing this and if anything, a fraction more.
Q. I reckon that will handle really badly and the ride will be as hard as hell - Was I right?
Now this comment, and believe me, I have heard it a lot, is one that I have never actually understood. Yes, the original VW suspension was fantastic, and it should have been, as after all, they spent a fortune on designers and engineers in getting it right. But also bear in mind that the Beetle was designed to have a metal body on the top with a lot more weight, so if the ride quality was ever going to be compromised, then surely it would be from what we are all doing anyway? We all profess to know more than the VW engineers anyway by constantly messing about with ride heights and geometries whilst still retaining the standard rate sprung components. This Coil Over front end was designed by the same guy that has Westfield's in his Portfolio, and I don't think I have ever heard of a bad handling one of those if built correctly. I have learnt a lot about body weights and the correct shock / spring ratings and this has now been set up correctly for its own weight. Is it perfect? Not a chance, but the ride quality is now so sublime that I am ready for Farmer Rob to drive it and pass the bad handling accolade to someone else.
Q. You also imported an Imohr front end from Brazil? Why did you not use it?
The Imohr front end was a beautifully crafted and impressive bit of kit, and if you want to go down that route, then I would seriously recommend them. The build quality was second to none, the technical assistance was brilliant, and the importing process was not actually as scary as you may think. If anything, it would have been financially cheaper to go down that route than replace with OEM. No, the reason I changed for this one is because this whole concept of a bolt on front end between Dave Fisher and Ed from Pie Valley was actually my idea. It was not only me that got the two of them together (Apologies Dave) but I spent many hours behind the scenes with Ed in helping to shape some of the design ideas into what we actually have here. I had no choice but to go for this one after so much involvement. Would I recommend this over the Imohr? Ask me after I have done a few miles in it, but the build quality of the welders at Kingfisher Customs who put it all together is way ahead of its rivals.
Q. Why is it riding so high?
Personal Choice. Because I also have to factor in Lisa's injuries, I wanted maximum shock travel for softness over the speed bumps that we have at the end of our road. For those that want the more traditional slammed look, then just go for shorter shocks and springs. Besides, everything is adjustable anyway.
Q. Was it easy to fit?
Hmmm. The main challenge I faced here is that it was one of the first ones to be attached to a Buggy. It was very tough at times as I couldn't really ask anyone for help. Ed has been brilliant, sure we have had our moments, but he has always been there and acts immediately on any feedback given. I have lost count of how many shocks he has sent me to try. Dave Fisher has also been good too, the only issue I have had there is the usual one of trying to get hold of him, but help has always been offered at all stages, even to the extent of taking it to him to be sorted. The beam itself was straightforward, getting the shocks right was challenging, and the steering column was a bloody nightmare due to the stupid vertical angle of the input shaft to the rack. I knew it would be a tough one to crack though, and hope that it was all worth it.
Q. Would you change anything if you did it again?
Yes. Apart from some slightly longer brake hoses, I would replace the steering Rack with something else. I`m sure the Mini rack is strong enough, but it was designed for use with 10" skinny wheels, and when using on 15" ultra wide front tyres, the steering is somewhat on the heavy side when trying to park or very low speed manoeuvres. The ratio of steering turns to movement of wheels is all wrong. I think this bit needs a redesign.
Q. All things said and done - Would you recommend it over a traditional beam?
A really tough one to answer. Yes, probably, but only in the same way that I would recommend disc brakes over drum brakes. Both are perfectly good in their own way, and I think it really comes down to price. If something on your suspension is knackered, then it would be more cost effective to search for some good quality parts and keep your original setup alive, but if you have to stick your hands in your pockets for a new front beam along with ancillaries, then I would certainly consider this, or even the Imohr system instead as you would not be disappointed.
It was a brave route to go down, but certainly no regrets (yet) ;-)up
That's great news Dave. Nice looking bit of kit, shame it's hidden under a bonnet.
Bet you've missed driving it
See you some time soon I hope
Dave and Lynn
Well good news there now that the 2023 season is getting near.
Reading the build thread from Ludicruz about his rear lights, it has reminded me that I need to sort my own ones out.
Many many moons ago, I got so fed up with the original light fittings going rusty due to my ill fitting lenses that I converted them over to LED and whilst they worked reasonably well, there were a few comments from some of you that they were a little difficult to see at times.
The only waterproof LED's that were readily available 10 years ago when I did this were encapsulated and are now starting to discolour a bit as you can see on the left hand side. The underbody LED's that I used are spectacularly bright and that is not surprising as technology has moved on quite a bit. The ones I am trying out on the right are called SMD5050 and unlike traditional LED's, they have a nice wide viewing angle.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2023002.jpg)
Hopefully I will be in a convoy with you lot sometime soon and you can tell me if they are easier to see or not. :-\
Well . . . ::)
I have now covered a few hundred miles in the Buggy with the new front end, and now that I have calmed down a little, I thought it was time to report back on my findings thus far.
::)
The suspension both front and back are absolutely perfect, where it used to judder over every small granular imperfection of smooth tarmac, it now feels sublime and glides over any rock or speed bump that is placed in front of me. As long as I am travelling slowly and in a straight line, its wonderful.
:D
But in the real world of speed and corners its bloody awful - possibly worse. (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/brickwall2.gif)
Driving up to Dubs in the Middle the other weekend, the steering still felt terrible and I had a severe speed wobble at around 60mph to the point that it felt unsafe cruising on the motorway. When I arrived at Snoopy Towers, it was obvious that my wheel bearings had now settled down and needed tightening up - Keith had done this for me before I had a chance to even blink. It made a bit of difference to the handling, but I think I still need to get my wheels balanced just to be sure.
But before I get a pair of worn tyres rebalanced, they have left me pondering a bit about which way to go with them. The BFG sidewalls on my current setup are very stiff with no give whatsoever, and it has made me wonder about going for a different tyre with a softer sidewall. I'm also wondering if my current tyres are maybe a little too wide? Sure, my 235's look pretty cool sticking out for miles either side, and whilst at crawling speeds the steering is not quite as heavy as you might think, although it may be problematic for anyone with less muscular arms than myself. Spending so much time at 50mph in the slow lane on the M5 I felt it wandering and tram lining which is also a classic sign of being overtired on crap roads (but I am suspecting the steering problems may go deeper than this). At the Malvern Show last weekend, I noticed that most of the Buggies I saw were running 205's, so I`m contemplating maybe dropping down a size or two? Looking around at available options, I spotted a pair of 205x60x14 Nangkeng tyres that may be worth a punt. Whilst not an ultra familiar brand for most out there, I have a set on one of my other cars and I have to say I am really impressed with them. No point balancing the old ones if I go down this route, so hoping for some inspirational thoughts from you lot on that one.
What has also become very noticeable is the amount of play in the steering, some from the universal joints that are on their way out yet again and some from the steering box itself. I hate this steering box with a passion. It feels cheap and nasty with no redeeming features whatsoever. It was designed for tiny 10" wheels from a Mini and the orientation of having a vertical steering shaft is something that I have never been comfortable with from day one. Didn't like it then, and after having driven on it for a few hundred miles, I like it even less now. Its Horrible and it has to go.
bleugh
I`ll tinker about during the summer whilst the sun is out, but at the end of the season, something major is getting rebuilt - just unsure to what extent just yet. >:(
Regarding tyres Dave I put rain tyres on and they transformed the braking and handling due to the softness of the compound and sidewalls
Their extra grippiness does make very low speed steering heavier
What is it actually doing at high speed and when cornering?
I know you put above about the guy doing Westfields, etc, but to be honest, you don't hear about them being bad at handling mainly because they're sprung very hard and stiff, and are very light on sticky tyres. They've never really been known for having good suspension, a lot of them are downright archaic, tiny little a-arms that change geometery massively as soon as you try to go softly sprung and get some travel out of them, etc.
Go karts grip well *without* suspension with the same recipe, after all.
A bit late now but that's nothing to base the kit being good on. The ride quality will have simply come from removing most of the friction in the front end given the state your old beam was apparently in, not really the kit/geometery itself per se.
And the biggest issue now is instead of being able to just throw stock parts at it and know it's good, is you're going to have to do the development and engineering work yourself to fine tune it, and that can be a long rabbit hole as you already know with the column.
I'm with you on the rack - I really wouldn't trust the mini rack with VW sized tyres too much, it's a bit undersized and the trouble you're having with the UJ's just shows that was a bad design decision really - if it's not getting too much abuse with knobbly tyres though it might be okay if you can just remake the brackets to lower the column/rotate the rack around and straighten out the UJ's/column?
Dropping down sizes isn't really going to help too much as your castor/trail and scrub radius are set by the arms and wheel offset, I'd probably be measuring the scrub radius and see where you actually are first it may be fixable with some offset changes, going narrow might help a little just from the tyres being lighter but I wouldn't say it'd be a huge difference.
Having said that for an idea the racer only runs 195/205 wide front tyres depending on the event, you don't really gain much with wide tyres up front, half the time it hurts you because you can't keep the tread warm enough to work properly.
As for they tyre themselves as already said maybe try some rain biased tyres, or even switch to an all-season tyre up front with a soft compound. I wouldn't bother with the Nankangs though they are very hit and miss as tyres go, I wouldn't even fit them in an emergency. They're terrible when they cool off or the roads get greasy and that's the last thing you want with a light front ended buggy.
205/60 R14 is a weird size though you'd probably have to drop down a bit more to a 185/195/65 these days for anything half decent in a normal road tyre.
Quote from: Dave DND on April 29, 2022, 12:34:46 PMWhy do none of the parts factors have this information available, and why are they all selling these bars by "Quality" instead of the load weight capability?
And just to go all the way back to this point while I was scanning back in the thread - that's because the rear spring rate isn't linear on the rear of a VW, it reduces either way away from the spring plate being horizontal - and as soon as you change the length of the trailing arm which when many are sold to people because they're putting 3x2, 3x3, 5x5 rear arms on, makes it meaningless to them outside of doing their own calculations.
What you do need there, is to know how far you can twist to the bar before it deforms to match it to your travel - which is why they sell on the quality and the max angle a bar can usually do.
So basically your table is good for a rough rule of thumb at one spot on the OE suspension, but that's all.
That's some interesting observations there - Thank You. ;-)up
For want of a better description, the steering almost feels like "bump steer" but the front end is so silky smooth in its travels that its like nothing else I have experienced, nor can put into words. Whenever I have driven kit cars with bump steer, you usually get the "bump" as well as the steer - this doesn't and almost feels like the rack is made from rubber.
However, I think you are probably quite close with your thoughts here, and I`m fast coming to the same conclusion.
Quote from: PhillipM on June 07, 2023, 12:04:37 PM
. . . . . downright archaic, tiny little a-arms that change geometery massively as soon as you try to go softly sprung and get some travel out of them, etc.
The rack has to go - and top of the wish list so far is a Ford Escort MK2 LHD one flipped over with a 2.4 ratio - Many others seem to be using this one, so its kind of proven itself. The crap design of the Mini rack mountings and that vertical shaft are just wrong from every perspective, but tried as I may, it just couldn't be fitted any other way without the input shaft ridiculously pointing skywards. I`m not sure what physical room I currently have for the Escort Rack, but if it means junking the entire front end and reverting back to some form of VW beam setup (with coil overs though so I can get the correct sprung weights etc) then so be it.
Quote from: PhillipM on June 07, 2023, 12:04:37 PM
A bit late now but that's nothing to base the kit being good on. The ride quality will have simply come from removing most of the friction in the front end given the state your old beam was apparently in, not really the kit/geometery itself per se.
With hindsight, I cannot disagree there - Front end was seized and rear was coil bound - and I think I have over contributed the "nice ride" comments to the new bits fitted, instead of simply fixing the old bits and faults. With the problems I have had over the last couple of years trying to get this bloody thing to work, I am halfway towards looking for an alternative solution anyway.
Quote from: PhillipM on June 07, 2023, 12:04:37 PM
Dropping down sizes isn't really going to help too much as your castor/trail and scrub radius are set by the arms and wheel offset . . . . . going narrow might help a little just from the tyres being lighter but I wouldn't say it'd be a huge difference.
Dropping sizes isn't going to do much, I fully accept that - But my tyres do stick out a bit too far past the wings, so dropping a couple of sizes ought to be done to keep the Feds happy. They need balancing anyway, so might as well get new ones done rather than the old worn ones. I have Nangkangs on my Focus (not by choice) and they are not bad - sure, they are not up to ultra high speed racing etc, but perfectly adequate for a Buggy that is usually in a carnival or on a cruise, and seldom see's the wrong side of a speed limit anyway.
I don't mind the development or engineering work, and quite enjoy some of the challenges being thrown, but I'm not sure I can go much further with this now - not all experimentation works, and sometimes you have to accept that it never will - I think I am nearing that point and may actually have to call it a day on this setup because if the truth be told . . .
I'm not actually enjoying driving it that much - Which is very sad for a Buggy (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Sad%201.gif)
When you say it feels like the rack is made from rubber - the car is tramlining, pulls around, feels like the front wheels want to dart or shimmy from side to side when you get some speed?
Do you happen to know what the castor and trail settings are on the kit as it's fitted atm?
edit - an Escort rack might work for what you have if the widths of the joints ends up the same - but with the original beam setup it wouldn't be much good, it'd be bump steer city, you need a centre mounting rack really.
double edit - my problem with those tyres isn't really high speed, racing, etc, in fact they're actually reasonable as track tyres because you can get heat into them and have room to play, the problem is they get very hard below about 5-10c and especially if it's wet to pull the heat out of them, one minute you're fine the next minute the back end has stepped out at walking pace like someone greased them, they're just unpredictable.
Kuhmo's aren't much more money and things like their HS51, HS52 are very good tyres up there with a lot of the premium makes, but then in 14 inch you'll struggle for much in the way of more modern tyres.
RainExperts or an all-season like Quadtracs might do you well though.
I`ll see if I can dig out Caster and trail settings, as have them written down somewhere ;)
Oh, and Escort rack is centrally mounted with equal widths either side - Lawson has just posted a picture of his one on another thread
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y02Zs6FP/7-E941227-89-BD-4-EF4-A5-E9-901-F1-B705-CB3.jpg)
No you ideally need the tie rods centrally mounted - the rods need to be as long as possible in order to reduce bumpsteer to a minimum on a front beam - no offence intended to Lawson but his setup is going to bump steer like a bitch.
(You should also have the inner tie rod/rack mounted way further forward towards the beam pivot point as well)
If you're going to try to use a conventional rack you need to either offset it and mount from one end like this:
(https://i.postimg.cc/C1RNJvvj/24102-03.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Or make a bar that links both sides and runs underneath with your mountings in the centre if you want to keep the rack centred.
I don't really have a good photo of ours but you can see the length and angle of the centre mount tie-rods here somewhat, I'll have to get a picture later. But there's a good reason all those aftermarket US sandrail/buggy racks are centre mounted for front beams:
(https://i.imgur.com/feOyR6R.jpg)
Understood about the long arms on the Polo? rack you have shown - But sadly made from Unobtanium Rocking Horse Poo nowadays
Loads using Escort racks though and no bump steer issues have been mentioned? Lawson, Allan, Vanessa, Hazel to name but a few ? ???
I guess that our suspension travel is somewhat minute compared to yours though, in fact you would probably class our travel limit as "play" in yours ;D
I think that's a large part to down to people just accepting bad ride and handling as being part of driving a buggy to be honest - I've had so many people say that to me with various VW kitcars too - when there's not really any reason it should be the case.
Even back in the 1930's VW didn't think that was acceptable which is why you have all the linkages to give a centre mount on a steering box, or the 1303/Splitty racks with the centre mounting points.
Anywhere away from ride height that Escort rack is going to give huge changes into toe out.
I don't really see the point in 'upgrading' to something that's demonstrably worse than the OE solution :-\
Quote from: PhillipM on June 07, 2023, 02:20:07 PM
I don't really see the point in 'upgrading' to something that's demonstrably worse than the OE solution :-\
And herein lies the problem . . . .
The after market parts for other marques, whilst not always brilliant, are considerably better than the Chinese Cheese we have with VAG
If I could have found a good OEM beam and steering box, I would never have gone down this route anyway :(
But there are racks available either off the shelf in the US, or by modifying the rack on another car with a little fabrication work, if you're going down the route of fitting a different rack anyway
In your opinion, would the early Polo Breadvan rack with the central take off, work with my current geometry altering wishbones, or better suited to a traditional beam setup?
That would be better for a beam, you really need to stick with something the exact same width for your wishbone setup - assuming the wishbones were designed around it right to start with.
Good info - Thanks ;-)up
Apologies for being a bit quiet on here over the last few months, but there has been an awful lot going on behind the scenes with a few drastic decisions being made with regards to this front beam and that bloody awful steering box. Walking into my garage feels a bit like a Deja Vu moment as I have certainly been here once or twice before.
Yep, decision made and that beam has now been taken off. :o
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2023003.jpg)
And as you can imagine, quite a conversation was had with Ed from Pie Valley and I was preparing for an impending Road Trip. (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Mates%20Fight%202.gif)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2023004.jpg)
But in absolute fairness to Ed, he totally agreed that we had tried just about everything and he had run out of any further suggestions. (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Mates%20Handshake.gif)
As much as I have tried, I just cannot get it to work in the way that I want it to, and I think my required suspension travel vertical movement is far greater than this beam will physically allow. I have no doubt whatsoever that if this was fitted to a track day car with limited travel it may just be perfect, but as a daily driver with spring comfort in mind, it just doesn't perform. I cannot put my true feelings about that steering box on here though else I may be banned for the language used.
Time to call it a day. :(
So, moving on - Plan B / C / D . . . Z MkIV - ::)
Given up trying to remember where I am, but basically starting again, so apologies for the next few instalments of rubbish on here. :P
I am going back to a more traditional style of front beam and moving away from the swing arm fronts as the basic geometry is tried and tested over a wide range of ride heights so its a good starting point.
I still don't like the leaf springs on the front as they were designed for the extra weight of a Beetle body, and I know from my recent playings with coil overs that if you get the corner weights right, you can have a really nice smooth suspension - So, I want to use coil overs on a front beam which does of course present a few problems - but then when have I ever done anything easy.
I know that many of you remove leaves to soften the ride, and cracked leaves also function quite well, but this is all a bit hit and miss, so I want to remove the leaves completely. Problem is that these leaves are what the suspension arms bolt to. What is needed is a long bar to go in its place that has some sort of bearing at each end to allow the arms to move independently and such things do actually exist. Then there is the problem with the shock absorber mounting towers at the top of the beam as whilst they are well suited for the shocks, they are not strong enough to cope with the extra forces involved with absorbing the additional sprung weight. They need beefing up a bit.
Gordon (Roadrunner) has a similar type of setup on his FF Buggy that was made by Max at Eva Resto Ltd and this seemed a good place to start. After a good chat with Max about my predicament, he suggested that the stronger beams that he fabricates for air ride suspension would be more than suitable for coil over use and that he could custom make me one to my specifications - This all sounded very good and I was promptly added to his waiting list, and then added again a month later when he admitted that he had forgotten (he still remembered my exact spec though) Well today, after many months of waiting for the call to say it was ready, I drove up to see VW Guru Dave Fisher who has been brilliant in sorting this all out (Not sure Ed was entirely happy with being presented the bill from Max, but Hey Ho) and I must give Kingfisher Kustoms a huge shout out for all of their hard work here so that this new one could be picked up from them.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Mates%20Handshake.gif)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2023005.jpg)
The old one has been left with Dave Fisher and I am actually quite sad to see it go though, as I have spent so many hours in the garage trying to solve the problems. No regrets there. I always knew it would be problematic, and hate admitting defeat - but it did cause me to fall out of love with driving my Buggy and I simply cannot allow that. Dave has plans to play further with the beam and is probably bolting it to a test Buggy as we speak in order to get to the bottom of my list of observations. I will certainly post his findings in due course.
So, New Beam, New Start and Nearly a New Year - Lets see what trouble I can get into with this one then
::)
Dave it's all a little beyond my pay grade of understanding and if my buggy is going forward and the 4 wheels are all still attached I consider I am having a great day and therefore fairly 'smooth' ride.
But vive la difference and I await the next update.
You have a Beam, so I hope Spock or another futuristic thinker can Beam you into the future where you will be on the Beam Team.
Suspension and steering geometry for road use is complicated Mr Ackerman got the principle sorted years ago but the beam has worked since the 1930's
I've learnt a lot about suspension and steering over the last few years with that old beam, and whilst I came close, really close - something just wasn't quite right. I know many on here can accept a or put up with a few minor irritations and annoyances, but my driving force behind all this is Lisa's brain injury - as she just couldn't cope with being out in the Buggy due to the way it bumped about on a long journey and the correctly weighted coil overs were a real game changer for her.
I`ll get there in the end ;-)up
I've seen various through bolt/coil-over set ups over the years, some home made and some commercial jobs, but none seemed to address the issue of having a proper thrust face where the trailing arm enters the beam. Not needed on the stock set up as the centre of the torsion stack is anchored in the centre of course. They seem to veer from 'not very well though thru' to 'well dodgy' :o
Good quality urethane bushes and plenty of silicon grease may be the way to go...or Vaseline ;D ;D ;D
(https://i.postimg.cc/tTZLPw4k/EZ-Rider-Bug-BJ.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CB0PpvDn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/g25Tq4L2/Screenshot-20231208-122101-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/gxVsGVKC)
Mine doesn't really look like that - Close, but not quite.
I'm going to strip it all down anyway to ensure every single component is perfect and operational before carefully reassembling it on the car
Photo's as I go along of course ;-)up
Going to coilovers I would be tempted to keep the torsion springs but rotated down so you have no suspension lift the use the coil over to set the ride height. A solid bar from side to side if clamped tight by the trailing arm grub screws means both sides move in unison and if locked in the middle no suspension so something has to be loose enough to rotate, as David says there is no actual central position to stop a mm or 2 of side float.
You will obviously keep us updated.
As Keith says don't understand how a solid bar can work. Normally if one side goes up then the other goes down.
Lifted inside wheel looked cool on racing mk1 Cortinas but not so good on the road
Don't panic guys, they are not entirely solid bars as you are thinking - I`ll get some detailed pictures shortly, but this quick one off the interweb will show that you can have a rotating bit on each end and hopefully mine is along these lines
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/bars.jpg)
I see still be a bit concerned over wear with use and free play setting in.
Surprised nobody has done a complete unit where you remove inner and outer bearings and the new arms are fitted with bearings and a location block but are flanged so no end play then you slide them into place with an applicator until the location block threaded bolt hole lines up with the old grease nipple holes you have already enlarged to 10mm to take bolts.. then just bolt them in place so you have a pair of arms working in an arc with no end float ready for the coilovers.
Off you go then Keith, Dave might have a set
Is the beam strong enough on its own to take the lateral force as the springs must spread the load to some extent
If they go in as far as standard arms as the spring will flex anyway and when you see the treatment they take when off roading they bend back with impact not up. You may get a simple sketch then folks can rag it to bits or add it may inspire somebody capable of design ;D
I just used a bit of tube with a nut welded either end and a pair of thrust bearings under the bolt heads holding the arms in. Total cost was probably under a tenner.
And still I'm getting the comments about why am I messing about with a tried and tested OEM VW Suspension setup, and yes, you are all quite correct - The torsion bars and leaves were perfectly designed for the BEETLE with its heavy body, and as we have removed said metal body and started to mess about with everything else, surely the argument has kind of been lost already. No matter how well it was designed, the sprung weight will always be incorrect for a Fibreglass Buggy.
:P
However, there is no denying that the shape and concept of the original beam and arms does indeed work very well from the geometrical point of view, so this time round I am going to retain it and just play with the sprung weight instead. Today I managed a quick half hour in the garage to trial fit the beam in place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/2023006.jpg)
Initially, it looks very similar to a standard style beam, but if you look carefully at the shock towers at the sides, you will notice that these have been reconstructed from a much thicker gauge of metal and now have fittings that will allow for conventional coil over shock absorbers to be used. I can then recalculate and get the correct poundage of spring for the lighter weight of car and still retain the original geometry of the standard Beetle suspension movement.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240001.jpg)
Rather than having the bundle of internal sprung leaves going through the tubes from one side to the other, I now have a set of solid rods with roller bearings on the end and these will allow full independent movement from one side to the other which is actually a huge improvement over the original setup. The four original torsion arms are retained and will just bolt on to these rotating end bearings instead of the former sprung torsion leaves.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240002.jpg)
At least that's the theory . . . ::)
Agree with you 100% Dave. The front end of a buggy is just far too light. I have tried all I can think of over the past year to get a bog standard front beam to not act so harshly. (For lack of better words). Mine is far better than when I first went drive about but it`s nowhere near what a standard un-messed about with Beetle was.
This set up has reminded me a little of a modification from the 60s called a Rolt Bar. One set of torsion leaves was retained for the car's springing (plenty enough for a light buggy) but the other one was replaced by a spring steel bar that acted as an anti roll bar. Standard shock absorbers were retained. This was technology borrowed from the Formula Vee circuit racers of the day, the whole set up cost 10 guineas!
Quote from: Manxdavid on January 04, 2024, 02:38:52 PM
This set up has reminded me a little of a modification from the 60s called a Rolt Bar. One set of torsion leaves was retained for the car's springing (plenty enough for a light buggy) but the other one was replaced by a spring steel bar that acted as an anti roll bar. Standard shock absorbers were retained. This was technology borrowed from the Formula Vee circuit racers of the day, the whole set up cost 10 guineas!
Not heard Rolt Bar before? I've come across that system (or similar) though from the Formula Vee stuff, but felt that it may have the same downfalls as the wishbone system I have just removed in that it may be absolutely brilliant for racing cars with stiffer suspension, it may not be ideal for road going cars that have a greater degree of travel.
One set of torsion leaves and one thru bolt with softened shockers would probably be perfect for a buggy, cheap too.
Bouncier seats like Baja suspension jobbies or even stock Beetle or similar (on lowered mountings) ones would also make for greater passenger comfort.
Quote from: Manxdavid on January 04, 2024, 03:44:10 PM
One set of torsion leaves and one thru bolt with softened shockers would probably be perfect for a buggy, cheap too.
Bouncier seats like Baja suspension jobbies or even stock Beetle or similar (on lowered mountings) ones would also make for greater passenger comfort.
Whilst I cannot disagree with you, the whole problem there is that its pure guess work, and can give hit and miss results depending on how worn or knackered the components being used are. I know the exact corner weights of the car and with the correct coil over shocks, I can get a perfectly smooth ride on the front - That much I am certain of.
Shock weights will be correct for the car -- Check
Suspension Travel will be as designed by VW -- Check
Just leaves me to make a balls up of the steering ;D
The mistake that most make with a steering box is not to adjust the track rod lengths and then set the toe in with the box set at dead centre.
The box should be set at dead centre and marked (Tippex works well), then the steering wheel fitted straight and never again moved. All further adjustments should only be made at the track rods.
Quote from: Manxdavid on January 04, 2024, 04:23:44 PM
The mistake that most make with a steering box is not to adjust the track rod lengths and then set the toe in with the box set at dead centre.
The box should be set at dead centre and marked (Tippex works well), then the steering wheel fitted straight and never again moved. All further adjustments should only be made at the track rods.
Top tip ;-)up
centring the steering is important I have had several here over the years with lock to lock from centre not even this means the castor is trying to align the wheels and you are holding it off center to go straight.
Quote from: Dave DND on January 04, 2024, 02:56:29 PM
Not heard Rolt Bar before? I've come across that system (or similar) though from the Formula Vee stuff, but felt that it may have the same downfalls as the wishbone system I have just removed in that it may be absolutely brilliant for racing cars with stiffer suspension, it may not be ideal for road going cars that have a greater degree of travel.
Our rail uses the same system for off road race use ;-)up
Has a Peugeot anti-roll bar in the front beam bolted to either arm. The bar retains the arms without needing bushes or bearings as it twists with the arms, so no friction or adjustment needed.
Dave congratulations on your birthday.
I assume you are having a day off from finishing off your buggy...
Thanks Hugh ;)
No, the Buggy is on the back burner at the moment as doing some rebuilding on my Mothers house and trying to fix the leaks - normal service should resume soon
Apologies, as this may sound like a bit of a Rant here . . . . . >:(
Once upon a time, we used to be a great Engineering Nation and could turn out some High Quality Gear. Nowadays I have come to the conclusion that Nobody seems to give a stuff about Quality Control and the once excellent standard of workmanship has gone out of the window. Experience has told me to no longer trust even the most respected Manufacturers and Suppliers out there and I now feel the need to fully strip anything down that comes my way for close inspection and scrutiny before I contemplate using it. And if you think I am being a bit Melodramatic here, just remember that you are all also buying expensive stuff from the same reputable suppliers, and just fitting it, blissfully unawares of how standards have really slipped to an almost dangerous level and the worst thing is, we just seem to roll over and accept it. I am not a professional Engineer by any means and half the time will admit to just "Winging it", but even I know that some of the things I am constantly finding are just wrong.
>:(
Today was one of those rare days where I had no Hospital Appointments or Visits to contend with, all my relatives had been recently seen and none of my mates needed bailing out - so I quickly turned off the phone, unplugged the Computer and spent a couple of hours in the garage. I decided to take a closer look at my Torsion arms. Now remember that this beam arrived fully assembled with the instructions to pump the grease nipples prior to fitment. The Beam itself looks really good, nice welds, nice finish and most of you would have been forgiven for just bolting this on and attaching the wheels. Top marks so far for that bit. But I still have that constant niggle in my head that I need to check it over. I really should not have had to strip this down to component level, but with the lack of mistrust in anything now I am so glad that I did.
This is one of the Torsion Arms in question. There are two on each side, an upper and a lower, but they pretty much all look the same. Annoyingly, the close inspection I gave showed them to be very much all the same.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240003.jpg)
I'll wager that very few of you have ever looked carefully down inside the tubes and I am somewhat annoyed about what I have just found.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240004.jpg)
They have been beautifully Powder Coated to the RAL Colour I specified sure enough, but after the Sandblasting process they were not thoroughly degreased or cleaned and sticking my finger in the hole bought out a great lump of sand. Nobody thought to clean them properly afterwards and all four tubes are absolutely full of the stuff.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240005.jpg)
Now, I bet what is going through your mind is that I am being unreasonable here and that not every grain of sand, especially on the inside can be expected to have been cleaned, but just think for a minute as to where my new roller bearings will be situated? They will sit right at the inside end of this tube and I dread to think what state they would be in after a few miles had I not spent a bit of time stripping this all down and doing the job properly. The Sandblasting Company obviously did not do a great job here when degreasing and cleaning, but then I would also have expected Max at Eva Resto to have picked this up when re-assembling them too. Not impressed Guys, Not impressed at all and there are NO EXCUSES for this.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/no%20no.gif)
Luckily I now have a small parts washer tank, and after spending a while flushing them one through, poking a rag down the hole, then flushing, then ragging, repeatedly for about half an hour each one, I think that they are now at least clean inside. Whilst mentioning parts washing, I ran out the fluid that came with my birthday present and was amazed as to the costs of replacement. I could drive to my local Machine Mart and pick up another 5 litre ready to use (ie diluted) container for £15, or I could have a 25L tub of concentrate delivered from ebay the next day for £30. That should last me a while - No brainer really
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240012.jpg)
So lets now turn to the ball joints, actually that's a poor choice of wording, because turning is the last thing they are doing. Lets have a closer look at them. My limited knowledge of the Upper and Lower Ball Joints is that beneath the rubber boot they have an elongated slot for them to move in, and that when they are fitted into the arms using a Hydraulic Press they have to to be correctly aligned so that they do not lock up when the suspension goes up and down. I recall this being a problem many years ago when the tools became cheap enough for the home mechanics to do this themselves, not realising how important the alignment was. If you look at the bottom of the round base of the joint, you can see a couple of square notches in the metal. These line up with some marks in the arms, but if yours have been covered in thick paint or Powder Coat, then you may not see the marks, so as long as the notches are at 90 degrees to the main shaft, then all should be well. These ones look to be aligned correctly.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240006.jpg)
Now my Ball Joint is absolutely rigid and does not move in the slightest. From reading up on numerous forums, stiff Ball Joints are either as a result of poor quality materials or because they have been badly pressed into place. If you look closely at the picture, there is evidence of an indentation, something circular that has been heavily pressed against the bottom of this and it is very clearly off centre. I think we can make an assumption as to what has happened here then. These have been professionally fitted using a Hydraulic Press but due to not enough care being taken, the joint inside has now been squashed which is why it does not move freely. Speaking with Dave Fisher, he said that sometimes you can get away with applying some pressure in reverse and forcing them back into shape, but this again just sounds wrong to me. I could send them back to Max to be re-done, but as all four look the same I just don't think that anything coming back will fare any better as there is obviously a problem in the methods being used here.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240007.jpg)
Oh well, nothing to lose here and might as well take an even closer look at this joint. My understanding is that the metal ball joint sits tightly inside a nylon housing that is lubricated with grease and has a rubber boot on the outside that keeps it dust free. I know that these are a hot topic nowadays with the MOT centres that just love to fail split or damaged boots, but I have never stripped one down before nor realised just how cheap and easy it is to replace them. You just need to be a bit careful when removing the retaining clips that you do not inadvertently puncture the rubber boot with the end, but other than that its a very simple thing to remove.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240008.jpg)
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Shocked%20Read.gif)
If you Google this problem on the Interweb, you will find many V-Dubbers all complaining about the problems they are having after replacing Ball Joints. You see, a stiff Ball Joint can lead to a number of problems from Poor Suspension travel to very stiff steering, and if you have ever driven a car that does not "Self Centre" after you have turned the steering wheel, you will appreciate just how dangerous this can be. And for every complaint I have read about, I can see that we are not only all being fobbed off by the suppliers about this, but we are generally accepting that it should sort itself out after driving between 500 and 1000 miles. What utter crap. So I am supposed to drive that sort of distance and only once it is out of warranty will all be well, assuming I have not ended up in a ditch first? Ok, maybe I should explain how tight my Ball Joint is, the joint that should allows my wheels to turn smoothly in each direction. Well, I cannot turn this at all, even with a ratchet fitted, and that to me is just not right.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240009.jpg)
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Angry%201.gif) (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/rules.gif)
Over the years I have had many vehicles, I have had many suspension joints replaced, and not once have I ever heard such rubbish as the VW Community is being given, as I can promise you that No other Marque would put up with this at all. I mean, driving 1000 miles in my Buggy would take me a couple of years if the last few are anything to go by, and everything I am reading are tales of woe from when only one joint is replaced at a time - Can you imagine what I would be faced with in trying to set up new steering and suspension when all four joints are this tight? No, I am just not accepting this and as the Manufacturers and suppliers are so adamant that this is now the way of things, I guess its yet again down to me to find a workable solution.
Ok - Rant over (for now) - Engage Diagnostic Mode
So what happens to a squashed and deformed nylon bush over a period of 1000 miles? Well the obvious answer is that they wear, and as part of the wearing process the Nylon will reshape itself and once that happens, you should get movement. ManxDavid came up with a top suggestion of introducing some premature wear by spinning them up in a drill, making sure to lubricate them with a quality oil at all times. I did a bit of Googling on this idea and came across a few that had tried with little success, and even Snoopy chipped in that he had never got this method to work properly either. Might as well try it though and attached my Cordless Drill to it. Nope, that just flicked a light and would not even turn - No surprise there really. Time to break out my big Bosch Power Drill, and even that just went Bzzzz without turning. So I thought that before admitting defeat and replacing the joint, I would try it with my Impact driver which is brilliant for removing stubborn wheel bolts. (As a quick side note, if you have never played with one of these Cordless Impact Drivers, I can really recommend getting one and this Draper version cost me less than £20). These joints should have a bit of movement under pressure, but I wouldn't have expected it to support the weight of this.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240010.jpg)
After several bursts of the gun over the next couple of minutes, it finally started to turn. A drop of oil, and pull the trigger again. As it slowly turned, it was getting quite warm, and the warmer it got, the easier it turned. After repeating this process for a couple of minutes, the joint suddenly started to spin smoothly whenever the trigger was pulled, not fast as its not a quick drill, but slowly enough to now mean it was free.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
I turned my attention to the other lower Torsion arm and once it had been degreased and de-sanded just like the first, I tried to fit my tool into the end of the joint. Yep, that's about Par for the Course, as the hex hole in the other identical Ball Joint was of a completely different size. It was smaller, in fact it was so small that I did not have anything suitable for spinning it up that was not made of cheese. No problems, I`ll take the nut off the other one, lock the two nuts together and spin them using a socket. I should have known better, I mean two Ball Joints with 12mm Nuts should be fairly standard wouldn't you have thought? There was that niggle in my head again about not trusting anyone to do things properly and sure enough the two joints have different pitch 12mm threads. One has a fairly standard 1.5mm thread whilst this one is 1.25mm.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240011.jpg)
You just couldn't make this up. ::)
The Upper Joints did defeat me though and I sent these over to Dave Fisher to apply a bit of pressure to them as suggested. They were much better when they came back, but I will admit to also giving them a few spins in the drill too, just to be sure. At the moment there seems to be enough movement there for me to now grease them up and fit them all to the beam knowing that these shouldn't cause the steering or suspension to be stiff whilst setting it up. (I know I am going to regret saying that) and if I need to replace anything later, then so be it.
So . . . Have I completely knackered them? Or will they work for a while? Truth be told, I have no idea. :-\
:-X
fair rant you pay good money for stuff and services, to press joints in you need thick walled tube the fits on the outer ring not the centre where the ball is.
spinning them so they get hot whilst getting them free may shorten their life but buggies are not high mileage cars so they should last years.
Quote from: snoopy on January 28, 2024, 06:34:03 PM
. . . . buggies are not high mileage cars so they should last years.
That was my thinking too ;)
Honestly in 20 years of building cars I've not had a single aftermarket part - or even a part ordered to an engineering drawing - that I haven't had to correct or rework in some way. It's why I do so much stuff in house that doesn't seem to make sense to do - I don't trust *anyone* to make what they actually bloody should these days, nobody gives a damn any more so long as they've got your money.
Honestly in 20 years of building cars I've not had a single aftermarket part
nobody gives a damn any more so long as they've got your money.
Could not agree more with this. The ball joint issue is a perfect example... I cannot calculate how many of these I have fitted since buying my first car 54 years ago. Until the modern repo market emerged these joints came out the box in waxed paper wrapping and they could be "rotated" by hand with ease and smoothly at that.
And you all thought I had finished moaning about these Torsion Arms . . . :P
Whilst fitting them to the beam, I have decided that I am not really happy about the plastic end caps that have been fitted - They look like 3D printed ones to me bleugh
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240013.jpg)
So a quick trawl of the net and I found some replacement metal domed ones from LimeBug
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240014.jpg)
A swift bang into place with a suitable size socket
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240015.jpg)
And a quick dab of paint to protect them and seal them in place
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240016.jpg)
I also checked the camber eccentric nuts and set them at zero degrees
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240017.jpg)
It was quite reassuring to know that the camber remained at zero degrees throughout the entire suspension travel - VW really got this bit right
Much happier with these now. ;)
Look like badly 3d printed ones at that, over extruded and way too cold.
So, what do I now do about the steering? I really want a Rack and Pinion type steering if I can, and the Rack of choice at the moment seems to be a LHD Ford Escort Mk2 that is then flipped upside down for RHD use. I have crawled over both Alan's and Lawson's Buggies taking photographs from every angle, and they seem to fit really well. However, I also have an alarm bell going off in my head about bump steer due to the length and pivot points of the arms. Whilst those Buggies I have seen, I know drive really nicely with no problems whatsoever, I am also very conscious that they are both sitting quite low with a very limited amount of suspension travel when compared to mine. I am concerned that because mine sits very high with a much larger amount of movement, that I may inadvertently recreate the previous problems I had with bad handling, and for that reason, (for now), I am ruling out this particular choice.
There is (or was) another very popular conversion from many moons back using the centrally mounted steering rack from the old VW Polo, affectionately known as the Breadvan but it has fallen out of favour these days as there are just no parts nor donor vehicles left. It just so happens that I still have a few of those racks stashed away, along with all the necessary rods and brackets as I was actually contemplating going down this route before I got involved with the previous front end.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240018.jpg)
It does present itself with a few problems though due to its size, as it is quite large and bulky and would require a new petrol tank to be fabricated around it.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240019.jpg)
Initially, that didn't phase me, as I am going to have to make a new tank for the Subaru conversion anyway, but I would actually like this thing to see some tarmac in the near future so I am going to opt for a much quicker and faster solution so that I can come out and play with you all once more. I now just want to get this back on the road and that meant yet another call to Dave Fisher who responded by sending me a parcel. Yep, going back to basics and fitting a standard VW Steering Box albeit on a temporary basis. Its not what I wanted to do, but if I have learned anything from my mistakes over the front end swap, its not to try and change too much in one go.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240020.jpg)
By changing one thing at a time, I can always quickly unbolt stuff and revert back if it doesn't work and still keep the car on the road whilst experimenting.
Hopefully Chinese Forst are better quality than the last TRW box I brought a fair time ago, I have a good spare original stashed away for any future failure on the buggies
Even the Chinese ones can't be worse than the old box I took off, or that bloody awful rack from the Mini - I really won't miss that one >:(
I did a really silly thing a few years back, No, not changing the front end, I cleared out my garage of a lot of original Beetle steering stuff that I thought I would never use again and now it has come back to bite me. Have you seen the price of Pitman Arms lately? Christ, what happened there? I have been on a quest to source all of the bits now needed to restore the steering box and track rods back to original. Something I had not considered though was the end stops for the steering, those little bits welded to the beam that stop your wheels from turning too far and hitting the bodywork. I didn't fancy welding anything to my beam for obvious reasons and Dave Fisher informed me about a bolt on plate that has two adjusters that limits the movement of the Pitman Arm. Because I could not think of another way to accomplish this, I grabbed one - but if the truth be told, I`m not entirely certain about it just yet and think it may need some fettling to make it work in a better way than intended - but I will deal with that later once I've got the steering working.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240021.jpg)
Remove the bolts holding the steering box, fit plate and refit bolts - Simplez ;-)up
Yeah, right - when has anything on my car been Simple? For a start, the steering clamp bolts were an imperial size which really threw me as I thought that everything on a Beetle was metric. Turns out that there was indeed some form of abomination released from Wolfsburg, and that's the one that my Chinese manufacturer had copied. I then had to work out where to fit the box on the beam and what angle to set it at. On a genuine beam there are some small raised locating pegs and depending on which way up you fit the clamp (Beetle or Ghia I think) it sets both the alignment along the beam and the angle of the steering column shaft. So when you have a nice smooth aftermarket beam with no marks, how do you know where the box is supposed to go?
I measured a mates Beetle, and it was approximately 220mm from the centre of the shaft to the centre of the beam - So I will set it there and point the shaft towards the bulkhead hole where the steering column is emerging from, WHICH SHOULD HOPEFULLY REDUCE THE ANGLES OF ANY UNIVERSAL JOINTS. - Apologies, had to shout a bit there so that Ed from Pie Valley might hear it and take note as his column angles were just crap.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/beam.jpg)
I then centred the steering of the box by turning it all the way to each end, counting the turns as I went along and then finding the halfway mark. Apparently there is a visual mark on the genuine boxes, whereas mine was made from red marker pen so I could ensure it stayed in one place.
Something that has puzzled me though whilst reading up on tales of woe about some of these steering boxes is that nobody seems to mention anywhere that they need to be filled with some form of lubricant. Back in the day, VW filled them with Gearbox oil and used the two plastic bungs on the top of the steering box as a fill guide. Remove both bungs and pour in some EP80 into the top hole until the level reached the bottom one and the refit bungs. I`m just wondering how many of these failures are down to dry boxes as everyone incorrectly assumes that they are sealed units?
:-\
VW used two variants of steering box lubrication. Oil & grease. I have found no issue over the years cleaning the grease version out and using oil. Any gearbox oil works just fine. Be aware that many a repo box will drip oil from new (From the large hex nut end) :'(
To be fair, my genuine one needed a drip tray ;D
Quote from: Dave DND on April 01, 2024, 11:17:56 PM
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240021.jpg)
You shouldn't need this Limebug bracket, the limits of the steering box is enough to prevent it hitting the sides of the tub, I'm planning on removing my one of these.
Quote from: Roadrunner on April 02, 2024, 10:16:36 AM
Quote from: Dave DND on April 01, 2024, 11:17:56 PM
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240021.jpg)
You shouldn't need this Limebug bracket, the limits of the steering box is enough to prevent it hitting the sides of the tub, I'm planning on removing my one of these.
Relying on the limits of the steering box can cause it strain and internal damage.
Quote from: Manxdavid on April 02, 2024, 10:40:10 AM
Relying on the limits of the steering box can cause it strain and internal damage.
Agreed - I would far rather a physical end stop than relying on the limits of a gear mashing itself until it can't move ;)
I think I may do something better than bolt heads though - just looks a bit "unfinished" to me
Swap them out for coach bolts with a nice rounded head
Time to connect the steering Column to the box. I am quite happy with the Golf Steering column I made last time and I am certainly not going back to a Beetle one, but of course, the universal joint on the end is a completely different diameter to the shaft of the Beetle steering box. I am fairly certain that the box has a very limited life with me as I really do want to go for a steering Rack, so rather than chop it about, or weld on yet another end piece, I thought this time I would just make a small adaptor that can easily be removed if and when I change the steering to something else without making a whole new column.
When I was previously playing with the Golf columns, I also ended up with a knackered Golf MK4 rack that I chopped the input shaft off, knowing that one day it may be useful. The idea was to weld this to a Beetle lower flange joint and then I have the perfect adaptor piece allowing my new column to fit an old box. Manxdavid came to the rescue here with a genuine flange for me as all of the new ones I could find were either chrome plated (difficult to weld) or made from Chinesium Cheese.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240022.jpg)
Another beauty of the VW Column is that the lower section is continuously telescopic which means that it can constantly adjust itself to any alignment imperfections from my bad welding in joining these two bits together. So far it all looks quite promising as everything seems to fit together very well. When I come to replace the box, I can now just slide this joint out of the way and refit it to something else.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240023.jpg)
I managed to liberate a set of tie rods from a mate of mine who has a rotten Beetle that has been sat in a wet ditch for many years and sadly beyond salvaging, but after striping them down and then pricing up a new set of ends and joints, it was actually cheaper to buy a complete kit from VWHeritage that also included both rods than to buy the bits separately.
Had a reprieve from Hospital visits for a few days and it has been really good to be back in the garage working on it again. ;-)up
Dave... Just an observation after having fitted two of these..... They are simple to put on and equally easy to remove should you ever need to as long as your arm joint`s are not as ancient as mine. The bolt heads I agree do look unfinished just hanging there so in two instances I have used the black plastic dome shaped bolt/nut cap covers. These give a soft face when the steering is at it`s limit either direction. They fit tightly and they look better than a hex head bolt/nut.
Quote from: Paul1953 on April 03, 2024, 10:39:33 AM
Dave... Just an observation after having fitted two of these..... They are simple to put on and equally easy to remove should you ever need to as long as your arm joint`s are not as ancient as mine. The bolt heads I agree do look unfinished just hanging there so in two instances I have used the black plastic dome shaped bolt/nut cap covers. These give a soft face when the steering is at it`s limit either direction. They fit tightly and they look better than a hex head bolt/nut.
Brilliant ! Like that idea a lot ;-)up
Reprieve from hospital visits is the good news
Quote from: snoopy on April 03, 2024, 05:07:23 PM
Reprieve from hospital visits is the good news
;-)up She's doing really well - Neuro rehab is worth all this effort for sure - should slow down a bit now until we get the results in
There are certainly times when the Buggy appears to be fighting back at me and I`m wondering if it wants to go back on on the road again? ::)
Today was one of those days. I recently asked in a previous thread about Brake Back Plates and if they were actually needed. They serve a useful purpose in keeping the muck and crap off the wheels and as someone also pointed out, the water also. Now it may have seemed a strange question to have asked, but here was my dilemma. Have you spotted the blindingly obvious problem yet?
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240024.jpg)
If you are not sure of the problem, then lets play a game of "Can you see what's missing?" and start with looking at my old stub axles that have just been removed.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240025.jpg)
And then look at the brand new stub axles that Eva Resto supplied
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240026.jpg)
Yep - you got it, there are no holes to attach this backplate to. Yet again I have been let down by the lack of attention to detail from one of the Major suppliers. The easy option here would be to try and give Max a ring, but that in itself can be a mission as he seldom answers his phone. So, as I no longer trust any of these "So called Major Players" to get anything right these days, I guess I have to crack on and see what I can do myself. Most of what I am doing to my car is a steep learning curve for me as you know from reading my ramblings on here, and what I am about to attempt I have never done before. I know the concept of drilling and tapping some holes, I even have some tools in the garage that I have used in the past for cleaning up old and rusty threads, I have just never done it before from scratch.
With the plate in place and centred around the spindle, I centre punched and then drilled some holes. I know I used a brand new drill for this, but I must confess to being somewhat alarmed as to how soft the metal appeared to be - the drill went through them like butter.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240027.jpg)
I then used my Tap to cut the new thread. I know not to just wind it in and that you must alternate clockwise and anticlockwise whilst advancing a quarter of a turn each time to keep the new threads clean and true - at least that is what I thought.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240028.jpg)
And sure enough it was not long before my holes now resembled threads. But again, I am a bit surprised as to how easy that was and how soft the metal is.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240029.jpg)
The bolts were then fitted whilst making sure that they were not overtightened in the soft metal - Job done and quite pleased with myself for that one.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240030.jpg)
The wheels bearings were then repacked and the axle reassembled - time to do the same on the other side.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240031.jpg)
With the other side now done, its past Beer O'Clock and a good point to stop for the day. ;-)up
I know that these are aftermarket parts and made from Chinesium Cheese, but I am a bit concerned by these and if truth be told, I would have been much happier if the bits holding the wheels on were not of such poor quality. Maybe something I need to investigate further at some point.
:-\
I know it doesn't help hold the wheel on but if the soft metal is a risk with the backplate threads why not use longer bolts and a locknut. After all you don't want the bolts working loose as they could damage the disks.
Glad Liz is progressing, give her our regards
I am 100% certain that the bolts won't come undone as decided to also add a bit of threadlock to them.
No, my concerns are a bit more fundamental than that and I am reminded of a conversation I had many years ago with Nathan Baker who made my raised spindles at the time in that he would only ever use genuine ones to modify as he had seen too many aftermarket ones fail with wheels falling off. There are so many out there using non-genuine ones that you tend to dismiss it a bit as heresay, but after seeing just how soft these are, I am starting to wonder (given my current luck thus far) if I may have some super soft ones here?
Has anyone out there actually seen or heard of these failing first hand? Not as part of the rumour mill - Just wondering?
:-\
I havn`t Dave but I understand your concern. Way back in 1970/71 I had a front wheel come off whilst driving along. (Stupid wheel reversing that was common back then and because they were 5 stud wheels that have the very short bolts there was insufficient thread on bolts going into hub). To this day I find myself double/triple checking wheel nuts/bolts when I have had a wheel off. I have, in the past, drilled into genuine hub carriers. They are very tough indeed needing the use of cobalt mix drills. I wonder if "buggypete" can advise here ?
I'm guessing that the difference in the metallurgy is that standard VW spindles are forged steel and that aftermarket ones are on the whole cast iron, which I think is a cheaper process and the reason that most aftermarket spindles are a little bulkier. I know my Empi ones certainly are.
Is there a reason you can't use standard spindles Dave? Are these 'dropped' ones to lower the ride height?
Reading your saga I can only deduce to trust no one in the aftermarket industry (not that KK were ever on my Xmas card list) and for reliability sake keep things as 'standard VW' as possible :-\
I love this forum to bits, and its great to get peoples input on things, even if what they say is not what you really want to hear, because Manxdavid has just said something that has unknowingly confirmed the end of a restless night thinking about it.
Quote from: Manxdavid on April 04, 2024, 08:20:29 AM
I'm guessing that the difference in the metallurgy is that standard VW spindles are forged steel and that aftermarket ones are on the whole cast iron, which I think is a cheaper process and the reason that most aftermarket spindles are a little bulkier. I know my Empi ones certainly are.
Is there a reason you can't use standard spindles Dave? Are these 'dropped' ones to lower the ride height?
Reading your saga I can only deduce to trust no one in the aftermarket industry (not that KK were ever on my Xmas card list) and for reliability sake keep things as 'standard VW' as possible :-\
I know I am using a set of "Borrowed" short shocks to get me started with some height measurements, but those hubs do seem to sit very high up into the arches, so I have just bypassed my cornflakes and gone out to fit a wheel - and I am not happy as I do not appear to have any suspension travel at all without the wheel physically hitting the wing. Something has gone drastically wrong here.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240032.jpg)
Mandavid's comment has saved me a lot of head scratching here though as he has spotted and commented on something that I had not even considered. It appears that I have been incorrectly sent a pair of Powder Coated LOWERED spindles instead of standard ones that I ordered and I have lost two and a half inches of travel. Didn't spot that one and could kick myself for assuming that I would have been sent the same parts that I had ordered, especially as they had been customised in blue as a special order.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/brickwall1.gif)
I would be forgiven for losing the will to live at this point, but anger has taken over and I am not going to be beaten by this. Dave Fisher is still one of the good guys remaining, but as much as I respect how busy he can be, there are only so many times you can be told by his staff that he is not in the office when you can clearly hear him nattering in the background. I cannot wait for them to resolve this as that will be another week or two at the speed the world currently seems to operate, so its back to that Buggy in a ditch with some beer tokens and just rip the rusty front off it and bring it home. Its restoration time.
I knew I was going to come back to these at some point, but had hoped to have at least got both wheels on before having to replace them.
>:(
Don't worry Dave, 'been there done that' as they say.
I was given a rusty old beam one that had been left out for the scrap man, I used the spindles on a buggy that I was throwing together out of parts, I couldn't for the life of me work out why the 14" slotmags wouldn't bolt on. It turned out the spindles were CB Performance forged dropped ones ;-)up
I got £95 on vzi for them and they're happily chugging around London on a Karmann Ghia.
Sometimes you eat the bear... ;D ;D ;D
Your problem is possibly that Eva Resto are aimed fair and square at the low brigade not buggies with big tyres, fit some standard hubs and sell the lowered ones summer is coming and you need to be on the road.
Cheap as chips...
(https://i.postimg.cc/mD5KxWzj/Screenshot-20240404-172716.png) (https://postimg.cc/hzV2xw0Q)
All sorted and I am now the proud owner of a pair of complete hubs from this donor Beetle. I think that the discs and pads were replaced just before it was laid up as underneath the surface rust, the pads look new and there are no wear marks on the discs. Been standing a while though as the back plates are disintegrating as we speak and it looks like I have left a long trail of brown breadcrumbs going back to the garage.
In fairness to Dave Fisher, he rang me earlier in a bit of disbelief that this could have happened and I think he had a few choice words with Max about it. I think Snoopy is right though that Max is so used to dealing with lowered cars that everything goes out with dropped spindles, irrespective of what you ask for. Anyway, Dave is shipping me a brand new set of spindles as we speak, but I think I am going to strip these rusty ones down first and see what I can do with them as I would far rather renovate some genuine parts now and try and limit the use of some of the aftermarket bits where I can.
The Saga continues
:-X
Genuine spindles are built to a quality not a price ;)
I'd stick with the guaranteed genuine original ones rather than risk anything new from KK that's possibly got the structural consistency of white dog muck (remember that!?).
;D ;D ;D
Well my recently acquired thread tapping skills came in handy today as two of the backplate screws snapped as soon as I put a spanner near them. ;D
For those who are struggling to understand how different a set of drop spindles can be, if you have a look at these two side by side and it might help explain it a bit better.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240033.jpg)
Off to see the Powder Coaters tomorrow ;-)up
Oh, and if anyone needs a pair of discs or front calipers and is not afraid of a bit of rusty clean up work, give me a yell ;)
Just a point to mention. I don`t know if there is any engineering reason for this but it has been around for as long as I can remember and CSP fitting instructions made a mention of this also..... "ensure that the "facing surface" of the carrier is free of any surface rust or paint. (This would include powder coating). I am finding lately at my age my memory is not any where near what it was so I cannot remember the reasoning behind this.
(After powder coating run a tap down thro the threads again to clear them out).
Quote from: Paul1953 on April 05, 2024, 09:01:48 AM
Just a point to mention. I don`t know if there is any engineering reason for this but it has been around for as long as I can remember and CSP fitting instructions made a mention of this also..... "ensure that the "facing surface" of the carrier is free of any surface rust or paint. (This would include powder coating). I am finding lately at my age my memory is not any where near what it was so I cannot remember the reasoning behind this.
(After powder coating run a tap down thro the threads again to clear them out).
Powder coating can cause problems on a multitude of surfaces and easiest to explain the problem with wheels when they get coated as everyone always coats 100% of the wheel including the faces of the bolt holes. Instead of the wheel nut being nice and tight against the metal of the wheel, it ends up with a few microns of plastic coating between them that does not actually take that long to break down and when it does, the wheel bolts start to unwind themselves often with horrific consequences as the wheel falls off.
A lot of prep is required when powder coating and if you have masked everything off correctly, running a tap through a thread should not even be necessary (but done all the same)
A friend of mine had his Karmann Ghia engine rebuilt by John Maher in his old Manchester workshop. While it was in he got his wide 5 steel wheels powder coated, bolted them on and he made it about 10 miles down the M62 before all 4 wheels came loose. Brake heat had softened the powder coat on the rear of the wheels and as you say, the bolt tapers. It totally wrecked the wheels and drums, nearly the car too 😭
A bit of an update, but not as much as I had hoped :-[
I came back from the Powder Coaters with a pair of these - Considering what he was given and that he couldn't have bought a beer for what he charged, I am quite happy with them.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240034.jpg)
It was quite funny really, that on my doorstep when I got home was another parcel. True to his word, Dave Fisher had sent me out a brand new replacement set of spindles. Far better quality than the lowered ones from Max, these actually looked quite substantial. A decision had to be made as to which ones to use.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240035.jpg)
It was a No Brainer really - Aftermarket or OEM ? - And as I was messaging a member over on the Muddy Side (Baja Club) I found out that only a few hours earlier, one of their Cars had just suffered from snapping an aftermarket front spindle. Thankfully no real damage done by all accounts.
Right decision made then. 8)
The next job on my list is to sort out the correct length of shocks (spring weights will be measured later) and the way I finally ended up doing it last time (after ignoring everything that Ed from Pie Valley was telling me to do), was to jack the car up and to physically measure the length that the shock needed to be. I needed both a fully extended and a fully closed measurement. I rigged up a stick with a scissor Jack under the front beam so that I could raise and lower the front end and make a few marks to indicate the travel of the suspension.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240036.jpg)
Fully closed was an easy one, it had to be before the tyre hit the wheel arch, so that even under the heaviest of braking it will not scrub the wheels or damage the wing. Fully open was also an easy one to measure as the suspension can only travel so far, so the open measurement was just before it had reached the limit of travel.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240037.jpg)
I really need to get the wheels on the ground so that I can weigh it for the front springs, so whilst it was bobbing up and down with the scissor jack, I put my angle gauge under the floor to get a rough idea of a where a horizontal ride height would be.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240038.jpg)
And once I knew that rough suspension height, I could then recreate something resembling the smoothness of my first suspension to get the wheels back on the ground. ;D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240039.jpg)
Now I have these measurements, I can ask GAZ to make me a set of Shocks ;-)up
Hadn't banked on the 5 week lead time though - That's just scuppered a few early shows. :(
I went with Protech for my shocks, turn around was really quick
I've come this far - another few weeks waiting for the bits I want
A parcel landed on my doorstep the other day from Gaz. I should have been really excited that it had arrived early and Lisa was a bit puzzled by my bemused face before I had even opened it up because the way this has all gone so far, I just knew that I was relying on someone to make something to my measurements and I had a gut feeling that it would probably be wrong.
And sure enough it was. (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/brickwall2.gif)
The open length of the shock was perfect, but instead of having a short measured travel, they sent one with a longer than specified travel which meant that at under heavy braking, the wheels would hit the arches, and because the shock body was a few inches too short it meant that the springs did not have enough thread to attach to, let alone adjust.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240040.jpg)
A Call to Gaz eventually confirmed that they had indeed made something different to my drawings and they would happily make me another set but it would have to go in the queue again. As they were ultra busy, it would probably be another 4 or 5 weeks. You can imagine my response. They did however have a longer set of springs available at a slightly softer rate and were happy to send them out to me free of charge to see if I could do anything with them. As you can see, they are a much better length for this shock
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240041.jpg)
Right then. As always, make something myself. :-X
By my calculations, the stroke length was around 40mm too long, and I thought the easiest solution was to put a longer bump stop in there. I have a large box of bits and pieces from messing about previously and it just so happened that I had a par of 38mm polyurethane bushes that would be just about perfect for the job. Pulling the end of the shock off was no easy task as Gaz make them properly (albeit the wrong size) but after a bit of chemical intervention I managed to soften the threadlock they had used to weld it together and my new bump stops then slid into place.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240042.jpg)
And finally, I have a shock absorber all custom built and ready for use. The only downside is that if this one doesn't work, then I have no one else to blame ::)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240043.jpg)
This was quite a significant moment for me as the shocks are now fitted, the initial ride height settings are good and the Buggy is now sat on its wheels on the floor. :D
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240044.jpg)
I have a bit more fettling and tweaking to do before it rolls out of the garage, but for today I think I will stop before something else goes wrong.
;-)up
I may often appear to be a super critical individual but no matter how hard I try I just do not understand what went wrong.... You can no longer rely on just about anybody to do / supply what they say they will. It should not come down to money, (profit), verses quality be it goods or services. So many people simply do not care any more...... :'( :'(
At least they reacted with free replacements
Quote from: snoopy on May 10, 2024, 09:11:28 AM
At least they reacted with free replacements
Its a little bit more complicated than that. Gaz only supplied the shocks (no springs yet) at this stage to my photos and drawings, and I was going to temporarily use some of the many springs I had here to determine exactly what I needed weight wise by messing about with them and then get back to them with some measurements. Because the shock dimensions were completely wrong, none of my springs fitted.
To be fair, the Boss man (Warren) really did go out of his way to source the closest size available springs from another company and get them to me very fast. By way of an apology, he also sent them free of charge too which is a real bonus if they work out to be correct.
Whilst the problems should never have arisen in the first place, they handled this very well. ;-)up
Finally all back together again and after a bit of final fettling with shock ride heights and tracking it was time to take it for a quick spin round the block :D
Attempt 1 . . . .
Really Bumpy ride, in fact absolutely bloody awful,
but knowing that each click of the adjusters on the shocks was equivalent to around 10lbs I backed them all off to zero :-\
Attempt 2 . . . .
Much smoother, but steering felt really odd.
Got back to find that the Drivers side upper Torsion arm had popped out of its location - that's a bit scary :o
Attempt 3 . . . .
Steering wheel is turning further and further to the left as I am going in a straight line -
again feels very odd on the corners, almost spongy feeling :-\
Attempt 4 . . . .
Reversed out of the drive at full right hand lock with someone in the passenger seat as Ballast and didn't even get out the drive before it went BANG :o
This time the lower Passenger side torsion arm had popped out of its location -
That would certainly explain the dodgy feeling steering as I was physically sliding the Torsion Arm in and out.
Now, whilst very unusual, I can understand that I may have got something wrong here with bolting on a torsion arm once, but to lose two arms on opposing sides means that I am doing something dangerously wrong here as I do not believe that I could have got this wrong twice. So after a call to Dave Fisher, I have booked a Lorry and the Buggy is now heading up North for him to cast his eyes over it and put it right. It's not that I am admitting defeat on this, but after several years of building various front ends, I have run out of ideas and really just want to drive it again.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240045.jpg)
Time for the Buggy Guru to take a peek :-)Geek
not nice trailing arms popping out must be the location slots not aligned with the point on the grub screws. Dave will sort it and it is up here for the Kit Car Show.
Quote from: snoopy on May 22, 2024, 07:36:56 PM
not nice trailing arms popping out must be the location slots not aligned with the point on the grub screws. Dave will sort it and it is up here for the Kit Car Show.
That's the strange thing - I even removed the grub screws so I could look down the holes to align them with the groove (there is only one groove) and still they popped out.
I even started wondering daft thoughts like whether the grub screws were the right shape for the grooves?
I think Kit Show may be a bit optimistic given he is busy and we have a Bank Holiday also between now and then - No worries, I just want it driveable :(
drivable and safe is good see you at Malvern
That`s a new one to me Dave. Never come across a torsion arm that has moved out - over before. I am waiting patiently to hear what the guy has to say when he has had a look see.
If I were a gambling man, my money would be on me not having the knack of assembling this particular one correctly - Hence sending to the experts
Today I found myself at Kingfisher Kustoms chatting with Dave and his team about their findings, and they have certainly been struggling with this one. ???
Many theories had come to light about the front torsion arms and the reasons that they would not stay in place, and whilst my favourite from Pat Masters was the shape of the end of the grub screw not locating fully into the groove, it was not to be the case. It took them quite a while to fathom out the problem here and after much deliberation, it seems that the torsion arm problem of sliding out of the beam is down to thickness of the supplied torsion seals. Dave reckoned they may be K&L seals and a bit too thick to be used here. The thickness of them would not allow the arms to be correctly inserted and aligned with the groove for the grub screw to locate correctly as the amount of sideways pressure due to their thickness meant they could not be pushed in far enough to engage the correct location slot. Where I was lining them up with a slot that I could see through the grub screw hole, it was not the correct one and the sideways pressure was just forcing the arms outwards each time the suspension moved. When Max supplied it, the arms were forced into the beam so hard that the thickness of the seals were actually preventing the arms from rotating freely. The seals were slimmed down to a lesser thickness and all appears to be well.
At this stage, I think it important to reiterate just how elusive and unhelpful Max at Eva Resto has been, and that was also echoed by Dave Fisher and his team who were also struggling to get any answers other than "The beam was supplied fully assembled".
Well Max, the beam may well have been supplied fully assembled, but this is what you left inside it from where you did not clean it out properly after shot basting. >:(
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20240005.jpg)
Poor assembly job and zero aftersales service on this one. (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/no%20no.gif)
Problem number 2 - The Steering Box(es). ::)
I think this one has been a real revelation to Dave and his team who have just realised how bad the steering boxes they are supplying actually are. In the recent weeks, they have fitted no less than six brand new boxes to my Buggy and have been staggered as to how much play they are giving. They have stripped them numerous times, rebuilt them, adjusted them, shouted at the suppliers, refitted them and cannot lose the severe amount of play that they keep ending up with. Around 4 inches of play on a 12 inch steering wheel is ridiculous. Feedback from their supplier is that they should be fine on an old Beetle, but we disagree, as not only are these so dangerously loose that they would fail an MOT, it has recently transpired that a certain £85K Porsche Replica Company that also uses them has just had a blanket ban imposed with IVA as they are so poor. Luckily, Dave managed to liberate an EMPI one from a display stand at a recent show and test it on my Buggy where the transformation was incredible. It was them removed and given back as it had to be shown again on a Manufacturer stand at the EBI Show in Belgium last weekend. Dave however, managed to pinch it back again and its now back on my Buggy where it will remain. Its not a cheap box at around £400+Vat, but unlike the sub £200 ones in circulation, this one works. In fact, sitting in Dave's office for an hour or two, I think I may have started something here as from the constant phone calls he was receiving, the steering boxes are certainly a very hot topic at the moment and I`m not sure if the cheap ones we have all come to hate, will ever be stocked again.
The preload on my 140lb front springs has been backed off a little to soften the front up a bit, but with everything still being very new, it's still a bit stiff and needs to wear and bed in a little for correct free movement, and if I need to change the springs out for some softer ones, then that can be done in less time than writing about it here. That can be a trial and error one as time goes on.
I know that some of you were of the opinion that the faults here were of my own making from messing about with things, but it turns out that these problems even had the Guru and his Team baffled for quite a while and turned out to be a lack of quality control on parts being supplied. AGAIN !
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/brickwall1.gif)
A huge shout out and thanks to the guys at Kingfisher Kustoms for sorting this one out, and whilst the black skies that appeared over Smethwick and following Monsoon prevented me from taking it for a proper test ride, I could see that they had all put some serious miles on the clock and were all pleased with it. So I hitched it up and towed it home, where I must confess that it seemed a lot less bouncy than it usually is in my rear view mirror. Hopefully the sun will be out back home and I can have a play at long last.
UPDATE
Managed to take it out for a spin today and whilst the steering and suspension are still a little stiff from everything being so new, I`m pleased to say that I returned home with as many wheels fitted as I left with. That was a win. Need to put some miles on it now and have a shakedown in a few months.
I think the interpretation of the arm pop off issue has to be the correct one. I cannot think of anything else....
Steering boxes... I learned the hard way. Steer clear of all aftermarket versions. They are worthless. I would suggest an original VW manufactured unit. Send off to N2 Engineering with some patience as the guy is often stowed under with the work. You won`t get the box you send back but will get the first one available. The difference has to be experienced to be believed. The first one I received back actually made me realise how shot the ones were on my Beetles back in the 70`s ;D You will never need another replacement.
Yes my box, as was all the steering, came under extreme scrutiny upon inspection.
Did an adjustment on the Hulk buggy steering box the other day it has done 1000 miles since Volksmagic built it and after going for a test drive I can see why so little use, you turn the wheel a 1/4 of a turn and nothing happens then it catches up then you get the same straightening up so it was adjust both settings on the box to eliminate any play but they are quite hard up adjustments not settings.
Jon the new owner is well happy with the feel now but not sure how long it will last with the box fitted.
About time somebody made a 16mm inner thrust bearing to go onto the original box shaft after the bearing race curve has been machined off.
Well, its had a good shake down and has probably covered nearly 600 miles with a mixture of being towed behind my van and a fair few added from me driving it also.
And I have to say that I am still not really enjoying driving it. I have this constant niggle in my head that something is still wrong that may be a bit more serious than mere fettling. :-\
The front suspension is still very stiff. Its certainly drivable, and a lot smoother than it has been for a long time as Liz is keen to point out, but to me it does not feel quite "there" yet and I am certain it can be much softer. I know all of my mechanical joints are reasonably loose, so the suspicion is that I may have too strong a coil spring on there. After chatting at Swanage with Roadrunner, (who inspired me to go down the Eva Resto front beam route), I found out that his own front end is only just starting to loosen up and he is currently running 125lb springs, which are considerably lighter than my 140lb calculated ones. I always knew that this aspect would involve a bit of trial and error and thankfully the springs are extremely easy to swap out. It got me thinking though that if he was running 125lb springs on a much heavier Longer Wheel Base Buggy, then I may as well start off a few pounds lighter and have therefore ordered up a set of 120lbs springs that should be here in a week or so.
Whilst waiting for those, I am going to have another look at this steering. When it left Kingfishers a few weeks ago, it felt stiff and heavy and I was assured that it would get better as everything freed up. But many miles later it has me somewhat perplexed. As the miles pile on, the increased play in the steering wheel is becoming more noticeable and I think the steering is also getting much, much heavier to turn the wheel, if honest, almost too heavy to be comfortable enough to drive. The tracking feels out too despite it being set up. Whilst I appreciate that I am being told it needs to bed in, I am also somewhat impatient and just cannot accept this to be right especially as modern cars never have this problem. A trip up on the rough roads of Dartmoor the other day saw it bouncing about like a thing possessed and when coupled with the really heavy steering that would not self centre properly, it nearly saw me in a ditch when trying to avoid a sheep. Back into the garage then and break out the spanners yet again because as much as Dave Fisher and Crew say they have sorted this, I now have a more than serious doubt about it.
Ok then - lets start with the basics and remove the steering box, which thanks to my telescopic steering column can now be done in a matter of minutes. It suddenly dawned on me that my new Steering Damper may be too stiff, but as the wheels turned very smoothly from side to side with the box removed, I felt that I could rule that one out. With the brand new (and very expensive) steering box clamped in a vice, it feels Ok "ish", maybe a bit tight, but certainly not as bad as it feels on the car. So, remembering to only change one thing at a time and check the results, I thought I would try another box for myself. My good mate Adam down the road was stripping down a waterlogged and rusty Beetle that still had a steering box on it, and he handed it over for me to have a play. On the bench it felt absolutely knackered by comparison, the baggy grinding noises it made as it turned confirmed that it was devoid of any internal lubrication whatsoever, but what the hell - it would take less time to fit than waiting for the kettle to boil.
Hmm. Once fitted, interestingly it felt quite good on the car. Sure, I had not quite got the rotational angle of the steering box quite right onto the beam and the tracking was indeed all over the place due to the pitman arm now pointing skywards, but instantly I could feel a massive improvement as the steering was now light enough for me to be able to use one hand rather than tugging at the wheel with both, like a Lorry driver with broken power steering. The play had largely gone too, and certainly not enough for me to warrant trying to adjust anything further there at this stage. So what would this knackered box be like to actually drive on the road?
The test drive this evening down to the sea front by pure chance found me another 2 miles down the road following a stunning DB6, a Delorean and a Stag, down to a brief local classic car gathering that I knew nothing about. Brixham Classic Cars assemble at the Broadsands Beach Car Park at 6pm for just 1 hour where I not only lined up with around 50 or so amazing cars, but also bumped into my friend John Clewer, (who was once in league with Chad in building the Doon, and also the guy who sold DC and Gail their Buggy all those years ago). That was a really good and unexpected evening.
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/Brix1.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/Brix2.jpg)
(http://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/Brix3.jpg)
Anyway, road test - how did it go? That knackered box felt infinitely better than the brand new one it has just replaced and I think I am going to leave it on there for now. Its not perfect, its still very badly worn, but at the moment it feels like I can drive and steer with a bit more confidence than I have been. I suspect that my new steering damper is now masking the tiredness of the box, but for now I am ok with that. Next job then is to check the geometry properly - Camber and tracking. Theoretically camber should not have changed since I have had it back, but the rotational alignment of the steering box and Pitman arm may require some minor tracking adjustments as a result of being refitted.
But thats for another day.
FWIW I run 100lb/inch at the wheel (Not the spring rate, as that's useless given my arm length differences, but that's only 185lb/inch even with my long arms) for my front rates, and only 40lb/inch when it's on the tender/twin springs initially. Obviously bear in mind that's a full race car so comfort isn't a priority.
It really sounds like you've been taken for a (rather rough) ride by companies that a lot of people have relied on in the past as being trustworthy ones. I really feel for you Dave and count my blessings that I can do most all things for myself. If I were paying good hard earned cash for this kind of work I'd either be going mental or going legal! >:(
'...get better as everything frees up' was a shocking thing to say about a vehicle that sounds as if they let it go in a dangerous condition. Shocking! >:(
Quote from: Manxdavid on August 30, 2024, 10:05:43 PM
It really sounds like you've been taken for a (rather rough) ride by companies that a lot of people have relied on in the past as being trustworthy ones. I really feel for you Dave and count my blessings that I can do most all things for myself. If I were paying good hard earned cash for this kind of work I'd either be going mental or going legal! >:(
'...get better as everything frees up' was a shocking thing to say about a vehicle that sounds as if they let it go in a dangerous condition. Shocking! >:(
I hear you loud and clear David, but this does seem to be the general attitude right across the entire Classic VW Air-Cooled Scene nowadays. I know many traders and Mechanics who have now given up on the older stuff due to the quality of parts. As I have often said before, No other Marque would put up with what we have to accept here, but rather than accept what I am told, I will always strive to find a better way to do it. Somebody has to try some of these unusual approaches, else how would we learn what not to do? It can often end in tears as my build thread will testify, but I will never give up as the gauntlet has been thrown and challenge accepted. My views on letting others touch my car, and that I find it increasingly hard to trust any of the big names out here, are well documented on my build thread, and it has sent me down a massive learning curve that has also been quite enjoyable at times - It would be nice if the car was drivable too, but I am actually making progress, albeit very frustratingly slow.
For the Record, I have a hell of lot of time and respect for Dave Fisher and for the avoidance of any doubt, the car was safe, drivable, and they insisted on me being happy with a test drive on the smooth surrounding roads before it left them. It was taken to them as I simply could not fathom out what had gone wrong with the beam supplied by Eva Resto (who are certainly NOT on my Xmas card list) and it took them a while to suss that one out too. With every single component being brand new, stiff and badly made on my front end, I can understand the theory behind the comments made - but it does not mean that I will accept it.
>:(
My goal is 2-fold here. Firstly, due to Lisa's physical condition and Brain Injuries, I need to make the car as soft and smooth as possible over the pot-holed Rally Stages that we have come to know as our roads down here as she is struggling with being shaken about so much. And Secondly, a few years back, Farmer Rob once told me that my Buggy was the worst that he had ever driven ( I couldn't disagree there ) and my challenge is that one day he will drive my car again and think the ride to be amongst the best.
Just not yet. :-X ;D
Quote from: PhillipM on August 30, 2024, 08:04:58 PM
FWIW I run 100lb/inch at the wheel (Not the spring rate, as that's useless given my arm length differences, but that's only 185lb/inch even with my long arms) for my front rates, and only 40lb/inch when it's on the tender/twin springs initially. Obviously bear in mind that's a full race car so comfort isn't a priority.
I thought of going down the twin spring route, or even progressive springs, but not really cost effective for a trial and error exercise as most seem to be made to order and not readily available off the shelf.
Yea progressives are a pain, best only gone for when you know exactly what you want - twin springs are easy though.
There's a whole lot of bullsh.. in the aftermarket world these days by people that don't understand a damn thing they're selling beyond it being shiny. I try to counter what I can with info but unfortunately there's too many bullsh..ters out there to cope. Same as all the crap a-arm/double wishbone kits and things out there made by people with zero idea bar copying what they saw on an MX-5 and hoping it works...paint it red and suddenly it's a top-tier motorsport part ::)
Quote from: PhillipM on August 31, 2024, 02:34:40 PM
...paint it red and suddenly it's a top-tier motorsport part ::)
;D I couldn't possibly comment . . .
. . . . But if Powdercoated BLUE, then I may still give it a go ::)
The top three things to worry about on a VW front end, both the suspension and steering, are friction, friction, and friction.
Springs, dampers, arms, etc, can be worried about after you minimise that. Geometery is almost an afterthought given the weight and tyre heights (which is why tiny little a-arms are pointless).
Getting a steering box rebuilt that tight it's causing issues from friction is a bit of a red flag for a VW specialist...
Time to swap to a rack and reopen that can of worms ;) ;D
Quote from: PhillipM on September 01, 2024, 03:26:15 PM
Time to swap to a rack and reopen that can of worms ;) ;D
Reopen? That can was never closed . . . . :D
This time around I want to be able to drive it in between playing though, been off the road for far too long.
At least the knackered box will allow me to set the suspension up in the mean time.
;-)up
What front end did KK use on this build Dave? Is it one of your old ones? I do know it's got a custom tube chassis though. :-\
(https://i.postimg.cc/wTCMdP8Y/Screenshot-20240910-090401-2.png) (https://postimages.org/)
Quote from: Manxdavid on September 10, 2024, 09:09:14 AM
What front end did KK use on this build Dave? Is it one of your old ones? I do know it's got a custom tube chassis though. :-\
(https://i.postimg.cc/wTCMdP8Y/Screenshot-20240910-090401-2.png) (https://postimages.org/)
It is indeed the same as mine - however, the car has been lowered and the A arms are pointing upwards - this will give a very limited amount of vertical movement, probably less than 2 inches. If used on a slammed car with stiff suspension, then it will probably work quite well. The problem I has is that I ride quite high with just over 3.5 inches of vertical travel and soft shocks which is outside of the geometrical tolerances of what that front end can do.
There's an old circuit racers quote for that - "Any suspension works great if you don't let it move"
Quote from: PhillipM on September 20, 2024, 06:43:17 PM
There's an old circuit racers quote for that - "Any suspension works great if you don't let it move"
Cannot disagree with that one ;D
Apologies if I have been a bit quiet over the last few months.
There have been a few things going on down here mainly Health and Hospital related and life in general seems to have taken a bit of a turn. Arguments with GP's, referrals by new GP, Hospital Admissions, Severe Medication Reactions, Heart Surgery, Blue Lights, Nose Operation not going to plan, Severed Arteries, Uncontrolled bleeds, Cancer Scares, you name it, we have been hit with it, but save to say all is well and Liz and I are both still here.
I think I can sum most of it up with this. ::)
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Junk/2025.jpg)
Anyway - Back in the land of the living, (literally), and trying desperately to recall where I left off several months ago :-\
Steering - That was it ;)
- That expensive steering box was returned back to Dave Fisher, and I know he is frantically scratching his head too. I have a knackered box with a brand new steering damper fitted, and whilst not ideal, its certainly driveable and enough for me to now draw a line under it and accept that replacement VW Steering boxes are bad. End of. I still want a rack and pinion at some point but for now will concentrate on the suspension for a while.
Everything is new and it desperately needs some miles under its belt so that it can free up a bit, but I figure that it will never free up if the springs are too stiff and will not allow it to move freely. So as my vast spring collection seems to have a full compliment of poundage options, I have just replaced the front coil over springs with a lower rate and dropped down to 120lb ones to see how it feels.
Next outing will be down to the MOT Centre in a week or so, as it sadly lapsed a few months ago. :-[
Lets hope the worst is over medically and you can both get out and enjoy more stuff in 2025.
N2 steering boxes I fitted one on a buggy that in my thoughts had to much play but did not want to alter it incase it had to go back as warranty but then had to tweak the adjusters after a bit of use as it got worse so hope that when it gets used this summer it stays as is for the owner.
Any Drive back from an MOT Center, with a Pass in hand, along a Sea Front in glorious sunshine should be a heavenly commute.
But down here it isn't. >:(
The 3 mile Journey from Torquay to my house in Paignton is along what must be one of the worst roads in the Country. With Bump steering over the potholes and tramlining along the knackered tarmac, its quite a challenge to keep more than 2 wheels on the ground at any time and it makes it near impossible to know if the Buggy is still at fault when the roads are this bad. To be fair though, my Landrover also struggles along this bit too.
So trying to ignore the road surface and reflect on the Buggy, the suspension, whilst still very stiff and not yet bedded in is certainly absorbing a lot more of the potholes and the seat belts now feel like they are protecting me once again rather than strapping me down and preventing me from going into orbit. The ride height seems good too.
The knackered steering box felt like it used to, but something was still bothering me. Everything seems to be niggling me with this bloody car and I would really like to rekindle my passion with it once more - and then it dawned on me - could it be the steering wheel itself? This is nothing more than a psychological thing, but I really miss my old silver Mountney Steering Wheel, it was the part of the Buggy that I physically connected with. When I changed my steering column, I had to ditch the Mountney as they do not appear to make a boss adapter to fit a Classic wheel to a modern airbag equipped shaft. It didn't seem an issue at the time as I opted for a really nice brand new Momo wheel , but it radically changed the look of the cockpit and things have never been good with the car since it was fitted.
Time to revert back to Old Skool and see what can be done to get my old wheel fitted. When looking for obscure fittings and weird adapters, I have tended to look towards the Rally World, and sure enough I came across a multi fit disc with numerous PCD holes that looked suitable. For the price of a small mortgage, it arrived on my doorstep a few days later.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250001.jpg)
I remember my steering wheel being a bit scruffy when removed as the moisture had previously got to it and anybody with a Mountney wheel knows that whilst the outer leather rim usually remains intact, the edges of the spokes tends to flake off and look really messy. I managed to gently remove the flaky painted surface and get it back to bare leather using a scalpel.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250002.jpg)
You have probably worked out by now that I have been watching too many episodes of the Repair Shop, because it actually inspired me to have a crack at this and see if I could somehow revive it. Sure enough with a bit of searching on the Bay of E, and I came up with this stuff for a very modest fee.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250003.jpg)
Not quite sure if I was doing this right, but I applied a fairly thin coat and then as it was drying, applied a second heavier coat. It went on and covered really easily and felt almost like a really high quality Acrylic paint. Once dried and left for a few days, I gave it a little polish and I think it came up quite well.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250004.jpg)
The Adapter plate is fitted to the Momo Boss on the column - Amazing how many variations this covers
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250005.jpg)
And I think it now looks more like my Old Buggy again.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250006.jpg)
I am using a polished center horn push which whilst it looks great, my advice to anyone looking at this is not to bother as you will be forever fighting with it to make it fit properly. I spent many hours trying to get it to fit the old setup, and for the hours spent, it just was not worth the money. It sits a bit too far forwards on this setup, and I need to fettle it a bit, but that can wait for another day because its on and working.
And as for that black repair, you really don't notice it at all once fitted back on the Buggy.
:D
If you are a Welder or Fabricator of a nervous disposition, then please look away now as I take no responsibility for any injuries sustained whilst laughing at what I am about to attempt next on here. This is probably not the correct way to do this, but I am trying to learn a new skill on my own down here and will post my attempts to inspire others to seek professional advice where possible.
:-X
Now that I have gone back to a more traditional front end, I am looking at my old bumper. Its more cosmetic than structural, and I am fine with that, but this one no longer fits and has evolved into a bit of a mish mash of shapes. I spoke with a metal fabricator who quoted me a four figure sum to manufacture something, (who was promptly told where to go), so I thought I would have a go myself and try and replicate something that looks like this, my old one.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250007.jpg)
I certainly do not have the skills nor facilities for bending anything, so I guess its down to cutting and welding something. I learnt to MIG weld at a college course a few years back, but was always told that stainless is best TIG welded. I have a small TIG welder here, but cannot find a course nor anybody down here to show me how to use it, so whilst what follows will look bloody awful to most of you, I am desperately trying to learn this by trial and error. What I did learn from the MIG course though was to invest and buy shares in flap wheels - so I did.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250008.jpg)
Its a very complex shape to reproduce, and even more so for an amateur. I have to make this in a way that everything points in the right direction and I am very aware that any heat from welding can bring a lot of distortion too. Looking at some of the metal suppliers online, I came across a company called DC Iron and they had a very good selection of Stainless Balcony and Handrail products that were sleeved, which would make fabrication a hell of a lot easier than I was expecting as it initially looked as though I could get the shape I wanted with a few pre-formed sections and a long length of tube chopped into short pieces. How hard could it be?
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250009.jpg)
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250010.jpg)
I suspect you can see where I am going with this by now . . . . ;)
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250011.jpg)
Now for the TIG Welding bit. I cannot decipher the Chinengrish Manual to know how this machine works. Amongst the numerous buttons and displays are only two that I have currently worked out. One appears to be a form of current setting, and if too low does not penetrate and if too high burns a big hole. The other is an on/off switch. So, Crocodile clip connected for the earth, point the torch at the metal, big flash, and hey presto - I made a mess. I know to make a small tack joint at each side first to keep the joint aligned, and as it gets hot, feed in some filler rod where I can see dips and holes.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250012.jpg)
I can hear the laughter from here, but whatever I did wrong, with whatever settings I had, the two bits are firmly joined and I can clean up this mess very easily with a flap wheel. I`m not going to go too mad grinding the lumps fully just yet though as that will come much later if all goes to plan.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250013.jpg)
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250014.jpg)
The front hoop was easy to make as I lay those parts out on a flat surface, but I need to find a way to ensure that the two lower legs that fit to the car are in the same trajectory, and I figured that if I welded a couple of end caps to a bar with correct spacing, then in theory with the front spacing correct and the rear spacing correct, I would just need to join the two together. I'm sure there are easier ways if you know how, but if it doesn't work, I know I can chop it up and do it again.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250015.jpg)
So far, so good. From a distance it does look like I have got reasonably close to the shape I was trying to replicate. However, if you look closely, then you will see the limitations of the flap wheels as the round tubes are certainly showing more than a fair share of lumps and bumps where I have tried to grind the welds down.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250016.jpg)
Now the sun is out, I am going to have a play with another toy that I have picked up. Its a belt sander attachment that fits to an angle grinder. I tried this on my cordless grinder, but it didn't really have the power to operate this quite like a corded one. It came with a range of coloured belts of different polishing grades.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250017.jpg)
Its sprung loaded to fit around the round tube, but you have to be a bit careful as any deviation in angle of attack can see the belt flying into orbit, but with a bit of practice it soon becomes quite easy to use. The results though are just staggering - the lumpy bar is starting to look not only round, but also starting to shine.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250018.jpg)
Moment of truth time - cutting that rear bar in half ???
If I have got it right, with no distortion, then it will be a simple straight cut :-X
If I have got it wrong, and everything is under tension, then the bars will go ping and be out of alignment :-X
Gulp :-\
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif) PERFECT ! (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/yahoo.gif)
Actually, there is another problem that I have just spotted. The lower bars are too short to clear the bumper and could do with being a few inches longer. I know I originally said I would chop the rear to make it fit, but this was a real schoolboy error as in my excitement to get this made, I completely forgot to measure the bar lengths with the bonnet fitted. I`m not too sad about that though, as those were the welds I made many hours ago when I first started and they look really bad where I have melted and distorted the metal very badly. Out with the angle grinder and extend them with some more bits. On the positive side, at least they are pointing exactly in the right direction now and have matching lengths.
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250019.jpg)
I welded the flat bar back on to the ends and bolted it onto the car. That didn't go well. :-X
The problem was that my stainless bar was flexing about quite badly and was giving me motion sickness whilst looking at it. So plan B was hatched to double up the thickness of the bar by welding another length behind it. Bolted it back onto the car and it's rock solid - doesn't look too bad either
(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/pics/Junk/Buggy/20250020.jpg)
It still needs a lot of polishing to get the lumps out, and some of the welds that I did in a hurry will be gone over when I can work out a few more of the settings on this machine, but for now, its good enough to bolt on and let you guys pick it to bits at the next show.
:D
Still laughing? Or is it not really that bad for a first attempt?
Even experts start with no knowledge or skill so well done with the attempt you are on the way.
Honestly looks more like a contamination issue than anything - was it definately the right gas you used for the TIG?
Quote from: PhillipM on May 30, 2025, 09:08:56 PMHonestly looks more like a contamination issue than anything - was it definately the right gas you used for the TIG?
You are more than likely correct - just plugged in the Argomix bottle from my MIG :-\
I figured that with the stte of my welding, it would not have made that much difference - May try with some proper stuff though ;-)up
Yea, that's your issue right there. Tungsten will be contaminated too, pure argon gas required.
Apologies - its been a while since I updated this, but so far the start of this year has not proved to be much better than last year, sadly Lisa lost her Mum (Rushed into Hospital on my Birthday of all days) and you can imagine the rest.
:'(
Anyway, a few months back, I dragged the Buggy out and was trying to remember the problems I was having towards the end of last year and after a quick jaunt for an MOT, I remembered - well, it was a bit obvious actually, there was an oil pressure problem, or rather lack of it. Engine would start and it was pot luck as to whether the gauge would move, how far the needle would swing and where it would end up at any speed.Its was really erratic.
First up, change oil and filter. In fairness, it had not done many miles since the last change, but that could have been 3 years. For the sake of a filter and an El-Cheapo tin of 20-50 it was a good place to start. I had not envisaged what was about to come out though, and still cannot fathom it. The oil, darkened, but looking fairly good, was coming out of the drain plug quite freely when all of a sudden a large gelatinous lump came out. It was most odd. It was still the colour of the oil, almost translucent, and can only liken the texture to that of a raw egg, with the yoke still intact. I caught about a cupful, but no idea how much had gone into my catch tin as draining quite fast. Had this been a water cooled engine, then I could have come up with many theories, but eventually settled on it shouldn't be there and maybe this gloop was blocking the internal oil ways somehow? That would certainly explain the random readings.
New filter, new strainer, changed the oil and went round the block - all was looking good. Started the car the following day and my oil pressure was all over the place again. Sometimes the pressure is there, sometimes the pressure drops like a stone and the gauge could point just about anywhere. I did wonder whether the gauge itself was faulty, but the warning light on the dash also kept coming on too. They do share the same sender unit, so I swapped that one over and I thought I had cured it. Driving around the Beer weekend all seemed just fine with no problems. Happy Days. Parked it up for a week and I could hardly get the gauge to register with the engine running. Maybe there was still a lump of that jelly in the oil way somewhere? This time, before I drain the oil, I am going to use a tin of Wynns Engine Flush. Yes, I know we should all do this when changing oil, but lets face it, we never do. Pour in the tin of liquid, leave running for 15 minutes and drain oil.
Yet another new filter and a can of oil and head indoors for a beer. Came out the next morning to fin that I had lost around 2 pints of oil all over the garage floor as my oil strainer cover plate had refused to seal this time. This felt like Deja-Vu as I started draining the oil and by this time I was getting annoyed. Not with the Buggy though, but with that bloody Orange Man Baby who kept throwing his toys out of the pram regarding Countries he didn't like, because thanks to Donald Trump, the prices of oil were starting to skyrocket to a point that even GSF were changing prices of 20-50 by the hour in their shop. Go in there for a can of oil and out came the calculator. At least this time I can reuse the oil and filters, so filled it up and started the engine.
You can guess the result :'(
Pull the pressure relief valves and give then a clean also do the seating faces then reassemble. Water ingress could be the air filters with last winters heavy rain if it was parked outside at any time.
Good luck Dave.
Not quite the same as mine, no gloop in mine, but mine needed a dose of Rob magic to sort.
Never left outside, but I agree - time to take a look at the Pressure relief valve. I could just about see the nut holding it in and tucked behind my oil filter, exhaust pipes, rear cage and tow bar which should indicate just how accessible this was going to be and knew that once again, I had to drain the oil.
Its one of those jobs that is often overlooked because the nut is really tight. Bastard tight.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DwHbG6M4/2026-08-18-1.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
If you have ever tried taking that screw off, you will know how hard it is. It looks like a slotted screw, but don't be fooled as that slot is also curved internally to a perfect shape that a wide screwdriver does not fit and a smaller one will destroy the sides of the nut as you try to turn it. The only way I have ever got that nut undone is by using the curved end of an old fashioned tyre iron and a pair of mole grips, but to make that work properly the engine has to be upside down on the work bench. Starting to get the idea how tough this job is?
But, there must be a tool for this surely? In my 40+ years of playing with Beetle Engines I have never come across one nor heard of anyone that knows what else to use. So with a picture of the above retaining nut, I decided to use AI to identify it. Took a few goes, but it seems to herald from the Aircraft Industry and was called an HTS bit. A search on Amazon then came up with a Company called Apex-Tools that sold HTS Bits, and I reckoned I needed size number 4.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SsqRLv7K/2026-08-18-2.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I can now see why people use screwdrivers as being Aircraft tools, they are near 3 figures a bit. :o
Thankfully, I found someone on eBay selling a complete set second hand, and fifty quid later they were on my doorstep.
Worth every single penny ;-)up Popped number 4 on the end of my ratchet and undid that screw with considerable ease. :D
As I withdrew the long spring and the valve on the end, I couldn't help but notice just how clean and shiny the internals of the engine were. It was almost a mirror finish in there and whilst I expected no less from a Farmer Rob engine, it does go to show how impressive that tine of Wynns Engine Flush was.
So this is the offending article - the actual Pressure relief valve.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fbvDsTmJ/2026-08-18-3.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Mine was spotless, clean, no visible marks or scores as was the long tube that it went up inside. You can buy replacement valves (just) but I could not accept that replacing a lump of undamaged vintage VW metal for an aftermarket lump of Chineseum was going to help. So cleaned it all up and put it back together. Filled back up with oil and started the engine.
Guess what. :'(
During my searches, I had seen many sites selling replacement springs and for the sake of £8, it was something that could be tried fairly easily so once again I drained the oil.
Comparing the old and new springs side by side showed that there was a slight difference. Whilst they were both the same length, the tension in my old one was considerably less. No idea what this would do, but at least I am changing something this time around instead of just changing oil. The spring was fitted and I fired up the engine. This time things were noticeably different from the start.
The gauge is indicating more pressure being read. When started from stone cold its around 4.5 bar, sits upper mid way on the gauge when driving about and when you come to a set of lights after ragging it about the gauge shows 1.5 bar at tickover when very very VERY hot.
Has it cured it? Don't Know. :-\ Looks promising, but I have been here before. :-X
If not, then the next thing to look at is oil pump, and that's a pretty major job with my setup.
The downside is that with my new oil pressure that I now have an oil leak somewhere at the rear of the engine. Gut feeling is that the Crank seal may have started to weep which is unsurprising on a car that has been sat around for the last few years, but I will put some miles on it first so that the traces of oil are easer to spot when I can be bothered to get round to it.
;-)up
When I was looking at the relief valves Chris (Doon-L004) kindly sent me a set of plugs for use with Allen keys. Well worth getting as they stay on the end of the Allen key when relocating them.
Instead of draining oil jack up the LH side front and back and you'll only loose a little.
I always just used a coin for those curved slot nuts. Or a washer and mole grips.
Quote from: PhillipM on August 19, 2026, 07:42:50 PMI always just used a coin for those curved slot nuts. Or a washer and mole grips.
Never thought of a washer and mole grips - but access on the CU engine may be a little restricted for that
Did you ever find out what the gloopy stuff in the oil was? :-\ :-\ :-\
Quote from: Manxdavid on August 25, 2026, 08:56:18 AMDid you ever find out what the gloopy stuff in the oil was? :-\ :-\ :-\
No, never did. :-\
I've had that with some Castrol in an MX-5 before, was a known side effect of one of the early magnatec additive packages when vehicles were stood for a long time.