Its been a while since I was last in the garage as things have been a bit busy down here. My House now has a new roof and the scaffolding has now come down on my Mum's house too. Building 2 houses at once has been a bit time consuming to say the least.

So normal service will resume as soon as I can remember where I left off.  Doh! 

One thing I have done though is to tidy up some of the wiring under the bonnet. I had loads of cables draped across the tank, and as the tank has been in and out so many times, I thought I would rewire it all. Now everything is inside some conduit and routed around the edges which should make life a little easier for future tank removals when I come to play radiators.



I always suspected that the rack was sitting a little higher than it was designed to be when using its original mounting bracket, and this was confirmed by Ed at Stoneleigh. The CAD design for the rack height showed that if it were a few millimetres from its intended height, then the steering would suffer badly with "Bump Steer", and if it was out by anything more than a few millimetres then the steering would be catastrophic. Although the steering never actually felt that bad on the modified bracket that was made, I though that it was worth just double checking - hence the reason that the car is in bits again.

Rack height seems spot on - so that one can be ticked off the list. 

I take it that the trip to Mevagissey for fish & chips is inching closer then!

I take it that the trip to Mevagissey for fish & chips is inching closer then!

Oh yes . . . . Need some Chips for sure 

Its that time of year when the word "Stoneleigh" is being banded about. That word has many meaning to many people. To some, its a great Kit Car Show. To some it heralds the start of the show season. To most of us on here, it means an awesome weekend camping with your mates. To me, it means pull your finger out and get that bloody car back on the road. Its the same every year.


Right then. Steering column alignment. My steering column has always been at an angle and whilst fitting the rack meant that the column went through exactly the same bulkhead hole as before, it seemed to be even more out of alignment due to the positioning of the lower joint. As I am now using universal joints instead of a long straight shaft, moving the bulkhead hole over by an inch or so sorted that one out fairly easily.

This did mean playing with the universal joints again, but if I'm brutally honest, I have never really been that happy with these ones. Sure, they are the supposed Grand-Daddy of joints as recommended by just about everybody and the Premium ones that Car Builder Solutions supply, but I really don't like them. A couple of times the steering has felt a bit "Notchy" for want of a better word, and the wheel does not seem to rotate as smoothly as I was hoping. I have always been a bit suspicious of these joints when the working angle was reduced on the CBS website from 45 to 30 degrees so whilst they were removed, I thought I would take a closer look at them. I took a die grinder to the square edges and rounded them off a bit, which certainly gave an extra few degrees of operation and seemed to eliminate the problems I was having.   



But I am still not happy with them. The problem is that they are just too thick and heavy. They look awesome, no doubt about that, but the metal is just too thick to be able to clamp them up properly, and despite using a breaker bar to nip them up, the one attached to the rack has no "give" in it and just will not tighten up as it should. I have now sourced an alternative, and these pictures should illustrate what I mean.






The next problem I have to solve is the distance between the two universal joints. There must be a real market out there for someone to supply short lengths of splined bar, because the gearbox people wanted an arm and both legs to supply a large quantity, or the metalworkers in India of all places were happy to supply me with one, but I just couldn't trust the translation in order to get exactly what I wanted. Plan B was to buy one of the bars from CBS, cut it down to size and weld it together. Sounds great for those of you that can weld, but I am still in the self learning phase. I know you have to butt weld the two ends together, sleeve them and them weld up the sleeve for total strength. Mine ended up looking like a gobstopper in the middle, but at least I am confident that it will never ever break.




Everything seems to line up and rotate, but I`m not really going to know how well it works until I go for a drive.




It does mean that I can now put the tank back in though 

Buggy is back together at last and time to take it for a spin around the block. I can't say I'm going for a test drive as nothing has yet been aligned or adjusted. I learnt least time I did this that it needs a good mile or so for the suspension to settle properly as rolling it in and out of the garage and jumping up and down on it simply wasn't enough.

That drive though was certainly not for the feint hearted. In fact, I would go as far to say that the car was bloody lethal to drive. The wheels are still obviously pointing in all directions, and whilst the front suspension certainly feels quite smooth, it is really showing up how stiff the rear is as when going around a corner it felt like the rear wanted to Pogo and somersault. Oversteer at low speeds really makes you wonder whether to bother cleaning the seats afterwards, or just change them. The steering still felt a little odd though with a few tight spots, but I am wondering if my column may be slightly out of alignment because of my duff welding - need to check that one and maybe re-weld it.

At least it moves and I can now start playing with some of the alignment toys I bought.
Christ, that was scary though 

[Camber is measured in degrees and is the angle of the wheel when viewed from the front of the vehicle. If the top of the wheel is tilting away from the car, or outwards, then the camber is said to be positive. If the top of the tyre is tilted inwards, then the camber is said to be negative.When the camber of your wheels are out of adjustment you can experience premature wearing of the tyres on the affected side of your car. Another problem that can result from your camber being out of alignment is the steering can pull to the side with the most positive camber.These types of camber issues usually arise as the result of structural damage or damage to the strut and/or spindle assembly. Other factors that cause your camber to fall out of alignment are sagging springs or other attached parts becoming defective such as ball joints. These mechanical issues can all have an affect on your ride height.]

All the Gear and No Idea . . . .   
I just thought I would say that before you lot do 

But on a serious note, I have never done any of this before, so if you spot something I am doing wrong, or you would do it another way, please let me know as my build thread on here is very much warts and all - if it goes wrong, then at least you can see what I did wrong and hopefully not make the same mistakes.

First up is setting the Camber:

Camber is measured in degrees and is the angle of the wheel when viewed from the front of the vehicle. If the top of the wheel is tilting away from the car, or outwards, then the camber is said to be positive. If the top of the tyre is tilted inwards, then the camber is said to be negative.

When the camber of your wheels are out of adjustment you can experience premature wearing of the tyres on the affected side of your car. Another problem that can result from your camber being out of alignment is the steering can pull to the side with the most positive camber.

These types of camber issues usually arise as the result of structural damage or damage to the strut and/or spindle assembly. Other factors that cause your camber to fall out of alignment are sagging springs or other attached parts becoming defective such as ball joints. These mechanical issues can all have an affect on your ride height.




Looking at Ed's latest set of figures (its a different set of numbers each time I ask) was to start out with around 0.5 degrees of negative camber as more can be added in later if needed, which seemed straightforward enough and meant it was time to get the first toy out of the box.

This frame is designed to sit flat against the wheel rim so that a measurement can be taken. The two round bits in the middle slide along the grooved centre so that different sizes of wheel can be accommodated. This is somewhat better than the two sockets we had taped to the side of a spirit level back in the early days of setting the wheel in a vertical position.



The frame is then "hung" on the side of the wheel and is held in place by two rough strips, like industrial velcro, that grip against the tyre surface to stop it slipping. The actual measurement is taken using an inexpensive (cost me less than a fiver) angle finder, which being magnetic makes life a lot easier.



The next step is critical. This frame needs to be adjusted so that the vertical bar is indeed perfectly vertical and that the two round spacers I mentioned earlier are firmly against the side of the rim both top and bottom. Even the slightest gap here and the measurements will be compromised. Sounds fiddly, but it really isn't as the way this frame has been designed it just drops in place and adjustments are really easy.



Time to break out the spanners. Unlike that large eccentric nut on a conventional VW front end, mine has a really easy method of adjustment in the form of a Rose Joint that is screwed in and out of the top arm until the correct angle is reached.



You have to be careful when tightening up the locknut as it can also affect the reading, but after a few attempts, half a degree of positive camber was what I was after,and I reckon I have got this spot on.



This procedure is then repeated on the other front wheel and then the original one re-checked again to make sure it hasn't moved.

So far, so good - I can now tick that box 

Be worth checking it does not alter too much through the suspension travel range.

Be worth checking it does not alter too much through the suspension travel range.

I agree with you, but if it did, then that would mean a hole can of worms about the whole design and geometry - I`m kind of holding on to the thought that Robin got the concept right here as its a tried and tested setup as used on the Westfields etc - Where I was going wrong so far (we think) was the ride height position and rack location, both of which appear (I hope) to be sorted. Arms are pretty much level which is a good place to now start from. Going to take my time with this one now and get everything set up - including the rear, before it hits the road again.

Hi Dave..... Following this with a great deal of interest..... I am running .5 camber. (Well in theory  ). Principle of adjustment is to slacken the link pin clamp bolts. Tighten link pin fully and slacken off fractionally. Shimming to get your neg camber. However same drawback. Pull in the link pin tightly and measure camber. Slacken off a tad and measure again and yep... change there..Think I posted some while back that I, by pure chance, came across the opportunity to speak to a retired pro who spent his career on steering/suspension geometry alongside modded road, off road and track cars......

Briefly as I can, (and hopefully put into words some of the advice he passed on)......  The real issue with a swb buggy will always be the front end lightness due to removal of the shell etc. With standard set up you will always have a structure that wants to hop about at the front....  This is where I believe your approach will eventually lead to a solution that I am sure there is a market for.

He said that an initial aim should be to work with the vw data purely as a starting point but expect to move away as needed. Each buggy will be different. It will be a journey.  Said that it isn`t coincidence that all standard production cars etc have a wheel on each corner of precisely the same diameter.    Camber..... negative so that max tread width squats on the ground. Same to give self centre steer on level graded ground/road.   Castor... start with a standardised setting if changeable and work from there.    Tracking.... again use the VW 1/8th toe in but be prepared to experiment...

Initial aims...... Self centre steering at low speed. Camber/castor/tracking whereby no tyre tread "wipe off" of note. (Ensure front wheels don`t crab. Ensure back wheels don`t crab).

Document all changes/adjustments  so you have data to refer back to. It`s normal for it to be one foot forward then two back... nature of the game without computer simulation.

Each individual change may/will effect other aspects. (This reminds me of something that was common knowledge back in the seventies but seems to have drifted away. I have seen many state that you do not need an anti roll bar on a buggy due to the light front end. Remove an anti roll bar and you remove it`s other equally important function.... that is to minimise a front wheels tendancy for rearward movement as much as possible.

So I have a humble opinion brought out by one of your comments...... I believe there is no right or wrong way. There is only the way that achieves what you are searching for......   

So I have a humble opinion brought out by one of your comments...... I believe there is no right or wrong way. There is only the way that achieves what you are searching for......   

I like that a lot 

I've actually had a few light bulb moments in the garage in the last few days and some very interesting findings that I think may be the root cause of a lot of problems. I will certainly document them all on here as I go through them, including a though on my rear suspension also. My ultimate goal is for Farmer Rob to drive my Buggy again in the hope that he can alter his comment from "mine is the worst he has ever driven," to that of  "it may now be one of the best"

I`ll get him to eat those words one day . . .  Trouble is, until that day, I cannot actually disagree with him   

Well with all these new, modern parts fitted, surely you can not make it worse 

Rob

Well with all these new, modern parts fitted, surely you can not make it worse 

Erm . . . . Uh . . . .  I think my brain took that as a challenge . . . .  because it went from worse to undriveable 




But on the more positive side - It can only be improved now as genuinely could not get any worse 

Here are two photos taken during the lockdown period when weighbridges were closed to the public. These to show that it`s far from straightforward getting a buggy steering/suspension anywhere near what you think it should be. It`s all trial and error as Dave is finding. (It can be frustrating to say the least. I haven`t resolved all issues to my satisfaction and I am on standard swing arm...k&l systems). If I had not seen this with my own eyes I would simply not have believed it possible.  Bought 4 off 0 to 300kgs scales. Checked their accuracy and went for a first try in measuring the buggy four corner weights. This was on flagstones but later measurments were carried out on a dead level concrete garage floor. (Yes I took the carpets up  ). The scales have 4 adjustable feet so can each can be levelled accurately....

So look at the two photos. These are of both the offside and nearside front wheels and all 4 scales were definately operational.....
One side shows a front corner weight of 60.30kgs and the other shows 0.00kgs. Yes that is truly at zero. Was stunned to see this. After much checking of the correct levelling of scales front to back and side to side and diagonally both directions I had to step back and think.

The cause of this proved to be the rear swing arm set up as it was then. I had always held the view that to set up the rear swing arm assemblies on a buggy that the offside and nearside swing plates needed to be adjusted to a point whereby the rear wheels sat relatively squarely in relation to the road surface after the system had settled. A little negative camber where possible and not sat right down on bump stops. I had been pleased with what I had accepting that each torsion bar would differ from the other so the plate angles may be fractionally different to compensate.

Here lies the problem of following protocol to the letter and is probably a good example of why I was told each buggy would be different in it`s suspension set up. So tweaking of one side spring plate by just a tad resulted in the front end levelling out. This example goes to show that when considering suspension/steering one tweak can and will have an effect elsewhere...   

While you are setting your angles, might it be an idea to replace the shock absorbers with solid bars, to eliminate any chance of  the height changing and affecting the other settings, reduce the number of variables
Ttfn Glenn

This may be an idea Glen......       (I cannot recall how many times I have tried to get the rear end to settle back to a "normal stance" after jacking back end up. All because the swing arms drop each time to the shock absorber limit).

I have my corner and total weights now. They are quite close side to side. Needed them for the for the iva plate and application sheets.....  Iva inspector uses these weights to programme the brake testing equipment. This section of testing goes way beyond mot test requirement.

Just out of interest here are my current weights...(Bear in mind the scales used were far from pro quality/accuracy). Weights checked repeatedly by rotating each scale around the wheels).


Offside Front.....  108kgs
Nearside Front....110kgs
Offside Rear........186kgs
Nearside Rear......175kgs


(These weights are without driver in vehicle. Approx 5 litres in fuel tank).