hi
im always thinking about my next project and one thing ive always fancied is a sand rail type buggy like the UVA fugitive, i need to know more about the suspension on a vw beetle ive just been watching  yt vids on buggies and the front looks like it just bolts on with clamps  presumably to the floor pan ?,  how is the rear attached to the floor pan ?, do i need to use the floor pan to keep the identity i assume i do and not shortened i guess ?
anyone got any exploded views of beetle suspension and how they attach to the frame/floorpan
what would be the best way of acquiring a front and rear axle ?  just hunt through ebay for them or buy a cheap complete cheap beetle to remove the suspension and floor pan from ?
thanks Andy

Andy... vehicle identity is defined in two manners.  One where a vehicle has a body separate from the chassis. In this case the chassis is the identity not the body and the VIN number is stamped into the chassis. In the case of monocoque construction the vehicle is "one piece" so it`s id is as per it`s entirety.   

The vw chassis..... Front beam is secured to the frame head with 4 bolts. The rear of the chassis terminates in two "horn" type structures to which the gearbox bolts. The engine bolts to the gearbox. Picture the gearbox/engine assembly as "hanging off the end of the chassis. The gearbox/axle assembly is described as a "transaxle" being all one unit.

Floorpans... these are two sections, nearside and offside that are removable and replaceable. The VIN number is stamped into the central tunnel structure. You can remove & renew floor pans with no issue... just use original thickness items which are expensive but miles ahead of the floppy cheapo versions unless you strengthen them. Take a look at my build thread..."Birth of a Buggy in the members build section for extensive details and photo`s which should answer any query you may have.   

Fugitive type rails had a full tube frame chassis so did not use the Beetle floorpan and the front axle was indeed held on by clamps, the rear torsion tube by u bolts.

If you want to avoid having to pass a type approval IVA test you could use a completely unmodified Beetle chassis with some sort of frame bolted above using the standard Beetle mounting points.

You'd probably be best looking out for a complete rolling chassis with logbook as a basis for the project to save a lot of time parts chacing.

  paul     will go and have a look at your biuld now   thank you

David  i think that makes sense, i will try and learn a bit more about types of suspension before i buy  a beetle

best get a correctly registered rail as suggested and rebuild it, Kingfisher Kustoms did over 200 Chenworth rails then they also did Kammando rails a home grown version other companies were UVA they did off road and street and rails from VW powered to rover V8 mid engine ones.
Kingfisher do the Overlander frame uses a standard beetle pan so a rebody not an SVA test build there are also some Dreamshack frames around on beetle pans but quality was patchy.

i agree finding a correctly registered fugitive would be best  but i think ive got more chance of knitting fog than i have of finding a cheap fug
im still looking to see whats about
this might be an option ??
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176027821163

This is the sort of frame you could fit to a Beetle chassis.

Use only the original body mounting holes though and do not drill any additional holes at least until you get the v5c description changed.

If you're starting with a full donor vehicle a photo of it showing its number plate may help you in the future.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1144478679863804/?ref=facebook_story_share

If you intend to restore "? A sandrail type buggy I'd avoid any uva fugative,they were thrown together and the majority are swing axle(not DESIREBLE), ALSO THE DRIVING POSITION IS AWFUL

Quote from: Manxdavid on November 15, 2023, 12:42:02 PM
This is the sort of frame you could fit to a Beetle chassis.

Use only the original body mounting holes though and do not drill any additional holes at least until you get the v5c description changed.

If you're starting with a full donor vehicle a photo of it showing its number plate may help you in the future.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1144478679863804/?ref=facebook_story_share

morning
yes thats the sort of thing that interests me,  im impressed you found something "sand rail" for sale i never can,   its the shape i like, i dont mind if its vw based or not,  i have an audi v6 engine and box i would probably use instead of the beetle engine/box  or even my subaru forester engine
this is where im heading





i dont like all the rear over hang you normally get  which an audi  or subaru engine would cure as the engine would be forward of the box
i realize the seats etc would need to go forward to give room for the engine,  or maybe use a transverse engine and box out of a much later beetle   2 lt water cooled with autobox,

Quote from: buggypete on November 15, 2023, 12:50:30 PM
If you intend to restore "? A sandrail type buggy I'd avoid any uva fugative,they were thrown together and the majority are swing axle(not DESIREBLE), ALSO THE DRIVING POSITION IS AWFUL

i think i would rather biuld one from scratch rather than restore an old frame, driving position i can change, and whats the alternative to swing axle   IRS ?

im thinking i will buy a beetle and fit a tube frame to it , then try and get the V5 amended to VW sand rail  then go from there with the engine choice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J_NzaS6d3I The overlander from KK is just that as long as the chassis is 100% standard it is a simple DVLA form and some photos to change the V5 this is good forany cage on a beetle pan.

Quote from: snoopy on November 16, 2023, 01:36:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J_NzaS6d3I The overlander from KK is just that as long as the chassis is 100% standard it is a simple DVLA form and some photos to change the V5 this is good forany cage on a beetle pan.

ha i had no idea they were still going used to go there ( west Bromwich ? ) 25 years ago
i used to have a a fugitive with a rover V8 in it, Renault gearbox if i remember correctly, it was so unreliable that i could never get it to work for more than 10 minutes at a time,  then along came a berrian with a fiat  twincam in it was great for racing around the fields but its road manners left a bit to be desired   at the time they dident seem worth keeping but how times change lol, will see if i can dig out some picture of them,
the overlander you posted the link to looks just the ticket   still got the looks i like but might be more suitable to run on the road too
i will investigate the price of an overlander frame 

The overlander with body kit looks more useable.
Thats three now I know of that used/ use the twincam motor my daily driver buggy there was one other kango now scrapped and your Berrien, get the photos up

Quote from: baloo on November 16, 2023, 10:19:12 AM
im thinking i will buy a beetle and fit a tube frame to it , then try and get the V5 amended to VW sand rail  then go from there with the engine choice

Just bear in mind that even after amending the logbook, any cuts and changes to the chassis and/or drivetrain changes outside of the 8 point rule and you're still technically into IVA territory.

Latest DVLA/DVSA purge has seen Mk1 Escorts with bubble rear arches deregistered because of the cutting of the rear wings and alterations albeit minor, to the monocoque structure in fitting the arch extensions.