There is a lot more than two pipes and a radiator to contend with, and although not the same as mine, this brilliant picture that Wayne has just sent me of his Nova will give a rough idea of how much I am also trying to cram under the bonnet - and he didn't have a fuel tank on top of it all

You need a body change plenty of space here for the beetle tank and 205 gti radiator😉

Quote from: snoopy on May 17, 2021, 10:15:11 AM
You need a body change

  Don't even go there . . . .   No . . Seriously . . . Just DON'T 

I really don't want that idea in my head      

Too late it is already there

Its been a few weeks now, so I thought I would update you with my solution.

After many phone calls and calling in some very large favours . . . .  My Imohr front beam is up for grabs and I have decided not to use it

Brilliant bit of kit, but I am determined to get that Scooby lump in there and this just does not give me the space I was hoping for up front.

Plan B to follow, and what a Plan B it is !!

I guess now its been posted online by Kingfisher Kustoms, the cat is out of the bag 

As previously mentioned, many many moons ago, I was having one of those mad conversations with Ed from Pie Valley Buggies and Dave Fisher about making something to go head to head with the Red9 front end. And both seemed really interested in the concept. I even spent countless hours bouncing drawings and ideas backwards and forwards with Ed, but eventually gave up suspecting that Ed was never going to build this and it would always be a constantly evolving engineering exercise - He always displays a Buggy Chassis at Stoneleigh. Brilliant engineering, but I don't recall ever seeing one on the road. It's almost certainly a Mk:107 version by now with a tweaked Mk:108 being drawn up as we speak (Mk:109 to follow).


However, I decided to ring up my mate Dave Fisher and asked if we could just build this bloody thing to which his unexpected reply was "Ok then, What Colour?"

And yesterday, I not only got to see it, but brought it home   




As you can see the arms are shorter than the Imohr and there is a lot more space inside to play with.




Eenie . . Meanie . .Miny . . Mo . . . The ones on each end have got to go   




Christ . . . .  I hope this one works 

Haha, I saw the one on FB and nearly posted it looked like Hammerite blue.

Quote from: Buggybaggy on June 12, 2021, 08:03:27 AM
Haha, I saw the one on FB and nearly posted it looked like Hammerite blue.

Amazing how close RAL5019 Capri Blau can look to Hammerite Blue 

I wonder how that could have happened ?   

The beam had been very quickly assembled prior to me picking it up just to check that everything was there and for a photo to be taken for their publicity. So the first thing I did when I got home was to strip it all down and make sure everything was as it seemed. I must have worn out a couple of tape measures that evening as I checked and measured and measured and checked because something did not seem quite right. Now I am fully aware that as one of the first people to play with this beam outside of Kingfisher Kustoms that there will undoubtedly be a few teething troubles - I have no issue with that as Dave Fisher and Ed have been brilliant with their support so far, but what I did spot made me chuckle a bit and left them a bit speechless too.

Spot the difference 




Unlike his Boss, I can't be too harsh on Ryan for putting these on as he made me a very nice cuppa when I was there. Still, those mismatched shocks were never going to work and after a quick phone call I received a matched pair of Gaz adjustable shocks (to be set near minimum of course) and Ed recommended using a pair of 8" springs that have been down rated to 175 lbs each to cope with the lighter weight of the Buggy.




Right then, time to put a beam on my car - Wish me luck   

Good spot Dave and easy fix although a slight leaning 'stance' to your buggys front end would give it individual personality making it easier to visually locate in a row of green buggys in the supermarket car park ?

When you see this beam up close, the first thing that hits you is the sheer quality of it. The pictures really do not do it any justice whatsoever. The standard of welding is absolutely impeccable and as a design and engineering concept, it has an awful lot going for it. Ok, it may not (yet) have the racing pedigree of the Imohr but there is no denying that it is indeed a thing of beauty, and the guy that commented about hanging it on his wall as a piece of art . . .  I can totally get where you are coming from.

However, if I am brutally honest with my "Warts and All" build thread, whilst it is 99% there, that last one percent is going to be very hard and frustrating to get right. There are still a lot of unanswered questions along with quite a few differing replies from Ed, lots of things that do not fit and quite a bit that will still need to be fabricated. I have always expected this to be the case, after all, every Buggy is different.

But if you are looking to simply purchase this and fit it straight out of the box (as it is being inferred) then I think you may be a little frustrated, and may also question why it isn't a perfect fit given the higher cost of it over its rivals. But also bear in mind that any extra fabrication work required is probably no more than you would need to do with the Red9 or Imohr either - The biggest problem you will face is that unlike those two, there is nothing for you to look up on google just yet as no one else has fitted this, and I am going to have to make this up as I go along - Thankfully I have Ed and Dave on speed-dial if needed.

Bottom line: Is it better than its rivals?  Looks like it may be.    Is it worth the extra costs?  HELL YES !    Is it easy to fit?  Well, jury is out on that one at the moment, but read on . . . . .

Unlike the twin tubes of the original beam that lock into a cradle with four low torque bolts simply holding them in place, both the Red9 and Imohr have flat mounting plates at the front which I have always been a bit confused by. I have often wondered how a flat plate can be deemed as strong as the original when fitted against a curved surface with those four bolts now acting as the strength, but I now understand why they have done it.

Before I offer this up the car, its worth pointing out the vast variations in the height distance between the front of the frame head and the chassis. Before you all start typing that they should all be the same standard that VW made them, I will just reply with, ha ha, dream on, think again. Out of the factory were some incredibly wide tolerances, and with so many variations now in reworked, replaced and chopped about frame heads, the height difference can easily be around an inch. Because the original beam only has a mounting with four bolts at the front with the arms trailing behind it, this difference is seldom noticed - Split torsion springs, bent arms, knackered shocks, and most of us bugger about with suspension heights anyway, we just accept that some cars sit better than others. Its only when a frame is fitted with rear mountings to contend with that this height difference needs to be addressed. Don't worry if I have started to lose you at this stage, all should become clear very soon.

The Red9 and Imohr both bolt to the front frame head, and some elongated holes in those flat plates allow for a bit of wriggle room to compensate for the height differences. The Red9 fills any gaps that are left with a big bag of washers whereas the Imohr has a rear mounting welded in place so there are no gaps at all. So what of this new beam then? Well those two tubes fit perfectly into the cradle at the front, and are locked in place by the same four low torque bolts. The downside is that there is no adjustment whatsoever, no wriggle room, nothing - where it fits, it fits, and that is that. Its also a lot heavier than the others too, and it helps to have some supports or blocks to raise the rear if trying to fit this on your own.






And of course it goes without saying that everything I have ever bolted in place previously like the washer bottle and speedometer cable for instance, is now in the way and will have to be removed and relocated.
 



The original beam has all its strength at the front where the torsion arms pivot, and because we now have some pivot points at the rear, some extra strength is required to prevent the suspension frame from being forced upwards and twisting the frame head. Both Red9 and Imohr have some extra bolts with large washers that are drilled through the flat metal either side, near where the uprights are for the brake pipes, and the Imohr goes one stage further by having a welded mount on the top of the tunnel too. Some real thought has gone into this unit though, as all of the strength is underneath and rather than pulling on a washer on a thin plate on the topside of the chassis, it uses the might of the structure of the chassis itself and pushes upwards against it. Its a brilliant solution that is far superior and stronger than any of the others. At the rear of this frame are two long bars that go back to the original body mounting points (no extra holes need to be drilled) but this added strength does come with an issue that needs to be resolved.

Now the longer these arms are, then the bigger the gap will be between the mounting plate and the underside of the chassis, and hopefully all that babbling I went on about will now make sense. With no adjustments available, this gap as you can see is quite large (18mm). Now I am not keen on just filling this with washers like the others do, and I think that something more "Bespoke" needs to be fabricated and would certainly be more in keeping with the high standards so far. I suggested to Ed that a thick spacer plate should be offered as part of the kit, and he is now getting a range of them laser cut and manufactured in various thicknesses to offer for sale. Sure, its a bit of a compromise, but well worth it given the extra strength that will be achieved. I`ll come back to this when the plates arrive.






I am actually quite pleased by this too, as I have always suspected that my chassis may be a bit twisted, but these two bars are not only perfectly horizontal, but have exactly the same 18mm gap under them at either side.

Couple of questions Dave before I get my wallet out

You say it's heavier. Is it much heavier than the original beam? How does it connect to the steering column?  UJs I assume but welded or splined?

Cheers
Dave

Quote from: Doon L001 on June 21, 2021, 07:03:27 PM
You say it's heavier. Is it much heavier than the original beam? How does it connect to the steering column?  UJs I assume but welded or splined?

Probably not that much heavier than the original beam, (weighs a ton compared to the Imohr though) felt about the same moving it about, but heavy enough to be awkward trying to ft it on my own, but that was more about trying to balance it whilst getting the bolts in. As for steering, not quite solved that yet but suspect some splined u/j's as they are easier to work with than welded ones and shortening the shaft to suit somehow. Hoping to tackle that fairly soon.

Looks a good fit and using the tube mounts as per original is a sensible idea.