Greetings fellow buggers
I have a road tax exemption query.......I hope that I'm posting this in the correct place!

I seem to be going around in circles with the DVLA regarding road tax exemption on my VW beach buggy.
My buggy followed me over to the UK a few years ago from Cape Town South Africa. I had it custom built in Cape Town in December 2002 from a donor 1973 VW Beetle by a company that has been building buggies since the 70's.
Due to the regulations set out by the South African National Traffic Information System (NATIS), all the "manufactured" beach buggies are re registered in the year of their manufacture, and all original chassis numbers are removed and the chassis are given a new number, therefore, the DVLA are going according to its re registered date of December 2002.

I have since applied for and received a certificate from Stiftung AutoMuseum Volkswagen in Germany proving that my engine was born in 1970, as well as a letter from the beach buggy manufacturer stating that it was a 1973 VW Beetle in its previous life, as well as their company registration certificate proving that they are a registered vehicle manufacturer.

I've sent all these documents to the DVLA, but they all just get returned with a note saying that I haven't provided sufficient evidence of the vehicles date of manufacture.

So for the years it's been registered here in the UK, I've been very annoyingly just paying the road tax.
Will anyone be able to point me in the right direction to get my bug correctly dated?
There are no added modern bits, it's even still running on the original wiring loom, although last year I finally changed all four original brake drums for new ones.

Thanks in advance
Glenn

I don`t think I am the bearer of great news for you here.

My understanding is that if your Buggy has been built in 2002, and then registered as such, then the date of the original donor vehicle is no longer taken into consideration.

I am also presuming that when imported into this country that DVLA probably also gave you an age related plate ( 02? ) and if so, then you were lucky to have escaped any further SVA requirements, but it would mean that your Buggy has to follow the rules associated with 2002 vehicles - and that means paying tax.

It may well have started life as a 1973 Beetle, but it isn`t that any longer - and has been officially re-registered as such with a new identity.

Free Tax?  Sorry, I don`t think even I could try and argue that one   

I would agree with that, as a 2002 reg what tax band is it?
on earlier registration years they have under 1499cc and 1500cc and over so you may get a lower tax with a 1300 motor.

As others have said, the car is logged as built in 2002 (52) reg. You're lucky in a way that your car has been correctly registered. As far as the DVLA are concerned 'Don't poke the bear' any further as far as registration matters are concerned as they could insist on IVA testing etc and give you a whole heap of problems.

Nice looking Beam Buggy by the way. Rare in this country, 10 kits were imported back in '99 but were slow sellers as the buggy scene was still a little quiet then.

'Don't poke the bear' any further as far as registration matters are concerned

100% agree with this..  The insufficient info response is the most common one you will come across.  (Even so following an IVA certified pass with an ACT certificate !!!). You will literally tear your hair out, have a phone bill as long as your arm to say the least. Know of a guy who pushed and pushed. Did get there after 17 weeks and a visit to the DVLA engineer for checks under the then current 8 point rule. (long wheel base).

Hi guys

Thanks for all your replies, much appreciated!!
I only decided to pursue this because when I took the bug for its MOT, my mechanic suggested it as he saw it was an old girl.

After receiving the rejection (which I've included at the bottom) I called the DVLA twice over a few days, and both times I explained everything over the phone and was told on both occasions that it was a mistake, and that I should resend everything in again, as the documents I had should be enough, but as yet, I haven't sent them again thinking that I will ask around if there was another way to verify the chassis age, because in the letter below, one of the ways for it to get "verified" is via a "vehicle owners or enthusiasts club", and I just thought perhaps someone here would know something about that being one of the larger enthusiasts clubs around.

I've had only one go at this, and wouldn't mind giving it another, but if you all think it's a waste of time, then I'll forget it.

Below is part of the letter I received.........

"I have to reject your first registration application(s) because of the reason(s) given below:
You have not provided sufficient evidence of your vehicle's date of manufacture. Dating evidence is
required in order to ascertain the vehicle's origin and to allocate an appropriate registration number.
Date of manufacture evidence must be sought from the vehicle manufacturer. If the vehicle
manufacturer is no longer in exiştence or is unable to provide you with dating evidence we will
consider accepting dating evidence from an alternative reliable source (e.g. vehicle owners or
enthusiasts club). The 'List of Vehicle Owners Club' (V765/1) contains details of some vehicle
owners clubs which is available from www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/old-vehicles which may be
able to help you in obtaining dating evidence. Dating certificates provided by vehicle owners or
enthusiast clubs must contain the date/year that the vehicle was manufactured and must explain what
source information was used to determine the date of manufacture. They must also include an
explanation of how the source information was linked to this particular vehicle (e.g. either by
inspection or photographs and rubbings). Dating certificates must be originals, written in English on
letter headed paper and must clearly state the date of issue, the vehicle identity number (VIN) or
chassis number and the vehicle's make and model"

If the original chassis number has been removed then I can't see how VW or any club could prove date of manufacture and you certainty couldn't send them photos or rubbings. Sorry!

David is correct with the original VW number removed along with it's original registration number in SA you have no history pre 1992 so you have been given a 2002 reg date which is good the other option would be a Q plate but you still pay road tax.


To get you buggy body tax free your only option is buy an  historic buggy UK buggy and swop the body tubs and fittings over then sell your 2002 on as whatever buggy it is.

We have been vetted and are now on the official V765 Club lists

However, as has been said - if your VIN numbers have been removed and the chassis re-assigned as a 2002, then there is nothing we can realistically do to prove its history.

If you can prove to me beyond any contestation that the chassis you have is indeed the date you think and can prove that the chassis in front of you is the same one you are referring to, then I would be more than happy to write something on behalf of the Club to help.

If you have proof of the old VIN number, and there is proof that the VIN in question relates to that chassis by way of markings - then there is a slim chance.

But . .   I really don`t see how you can prove it if the numbers have been removed?

Thanks again guys

And yeah, I thought it was a bit of a long shot as it was.
But last week I did actually call the guys in Cape Town who built it to ask for the original documents etc, and he said he'd go through his records, but they've moved workshops and a "lot of stuff" is in storage he says...... So I think I'll possibly have to remind him.
So, it's not the end of the world paying road tax, it's not as if I use it every day of the year like I used to in Cape Town, LOL!!!
But at least I know where I stand, and if I manage to get the records out of him, which he says he still has, then great!!

Hopefully bump into you all when the sun comes out!!
Thanks again!

A few words following my most recent experience with DVLA and VW Museum regarding dating.
My donor beetle was an import from South Africa built originally at the Utenhage plant.

Imported to the uk and re-registered. V5C therefore shows the replacement registration with the import date as date of 1st registration. (This being a N plate).

Firstly DVLA.. during a had hoc phone call, during which I insisted my enquiry was hypothetical and not relating to an existing vehicle I was informed that both DVLA & VOSA no longer accepted any confirmation from vehicle clubs etc regarding dating of vehicles. They were insistent in the case of a Beetle donor only a "birth certificate" confirmation from VW Museum would be accepted as proof of age of the donor chassis and engine number dating.

Now.... in trying to obtain a "birth certificate" from VW Museum peoples I came unstuck. A long story cut short. They could give an estimation of the Beetle chassis age from the vin number. They could give an estimation of date of engine build from engine number stamping but they would not verify this with written certification.  Why.... Utenhage built the SA Beetles under "licence" .  No further involvement by VW  Wolfsburg allowed due to the "political instability \ differences at the time with Europe in general. There was a major fire at Utenhage and much of the early records were destroyed.

The uppermost point from DVLA, I thought from conversations, was that a "birth certificate" would be given when the Beetle could be confirmed as a "fully original" vehicle. That is to say Proof of original vin on chassis with provable shell from original vehicle with confirmation that the current engine was the original fitted to this chassis\shell combination.

So convoluted I agree and it is my fear that pushing DVLA further could result at best in them allowing the same status that you have now and at worst revoking the registration number you have and insisting upon an engineering inspection followed by the issue of a Q plate registration which if you were given can never be swapped for anything else..ever.

You will have seen the efforts initiated by DaveDnd & others to resolve buggy acceptance etc with DVLA and hopefully when the dust settles so to speak DVLA\DVSA will have a permanently resolved path for buggy owners to follow and all peoples within DVLA organisation will be on the "same page" and the term beach buggy will be accepted.

Hey Paul1953

Thanks for that!!
Very interesting, your so right about them needing to be "on the same page", it actually makes me want to tip toe very quietly and quickly away and pretend that I didn't say or do anything 

I'll let it lie!!
Because as I mentioned earlier, it's not taxed the whole year round anyway. Besides...... I bet you a million bucks that the DVLA are desperately trying to figure out a way to tax all vehicles again...... Look what they've done with the EVs.

Cheers

Look what they've done with the EVs.

Yep

Bit off topic I know but I am very familiar with the Lancaster area. Spent a lot of time in my contracting days at Heysham when power station no 2 was being built.  Have you ever had your buggy across the mud flats of Morcambe Bay?.... bit scary that would be not knowing if you would get across or disappear forever 

Actually, my bug is covered in mud right this minute sitting in the garage because of the Morecambe mud, I actually apologised to it on Tuesday that I hadn't giving it a bath!

I won't attempt going across, as there's plenty of area to make a fool of one's selves without  having the risk of disappearing 

Thanks again guys for clearing things up for me, I'm not going to bother with it anymore.

Thanks again guys for clearing things up for me, I'm not going to bother with it anymore.

Not sure I would give up just yet . .

If you can get something official from Cape Town indicating the original VIN number that they removed in favour of the new one that was put in place, then that would be enough to start the ball rolling and a case could be constructed around that bit of crucial information - the rest would be quite easy.

But until that document comes to light . . .  Pay the road tax