Hi
I'm looking to fit front seats into LWB buggy which have seatbelts built in.
This is because at present I'm not looking to fit a roll bar, but may do in future so won't have seatbelt mountings.
I need black leather front seats preferably not electric adjustment
I'm having trouble finding anything, the few I can find are electric and this can be tricky to properly install so I'm told.
I've also been told by a breaker that if I installed any seats with built in belts I would need to mount them to box section not just bolt to floor!
I'm not sure of the technicalities but this is a way I really want to go and would appreciate advice
Thanks in advance
Chris
Any harness that goes over the shoulders, needs something higher up to anchor to, or in the case or an accident it will crush down on you.
You can of course take the risk, or go for a lap belt - check the legalities for the age of your chassis.
I understand the point but on a bmw cabriolet they don't have any anchorage point other than at the shoulder height of the seat.
Of course they do have the bottom mounting for chassis.
Wouldn't want lap belts at all!
I would assume that the seat on the BMW is re-enforced to handle the compression forces exerted in the case of a crash, also as Dave mentioned in the other post, does it have pre-tensioners which would also help with the forces.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roll-Over-Bar-Porsche-Boxster-986-/380277052150?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item588a4752f6
adopt , adapt, improve?
I wouldnt bolt a seat with integrated belts/buckles to a VW flloorpan.
The forces involved in an accident can be immense. With all the fixings on the seat only, it's going to put a massive strain on the seat mounts. It will rip through a beetle floorpan with no issue at all. The barker who advised you was right.
If you are set on black leather, non electric seats, try and find some Porsche Tombstones. They will fit to some proper mounts very well, cause you no issues and generally look pretty good
Thanks for the suggestion, as regards the roll bar would the Porsche roll over hoop mentioned earlier fit without too much hassle?
Cheers
I believe it would still require some modification to fit as mountings wouldn't be in the right place I think.
Someone on here did it I think to a sidewinder or a prowler. Can't rightly recall now.
If I were to fit seats with integrated belts, would it suffice to strengthen the whole thing with box section/similar?
I would do a full perimeter box section with cross bracing for the seats. As said the beetle floor is no where strong enough to hold with the forces placed on it even under heavy braking. You will eventually have stress fractures and suffer metal fatigue in a very short time.
So you'd say box section on edges and an x across the inner?
Or would you mean bracing outside of the box?
I know that the seat belt mountings on a production car are tested to 13.5kN for certification. So I did some quick calculations based on a seat-mounted belt, and in a frontal impact from 30mph, I reckon the rear seat mounts will see almost a ton of load each if the seatbelt upper anchorage point is fixed to the seat shoulder! The average buggy weighs in at around 0.6-0.7 ton. Could you brace the floorpan so the whole buggy can be lifted on one seat mount point?
Having said that, rather than a frontal impact I think a more likely scenario for a buggy involves coming off the road, possible rollover and - if the belt doesn't fit properly - potential occupant ejection, a situation which has a very high 'poor outcome' statistic.
Crikey, seems like I'm opening an awfully big can of worms!
Back to drawing board!
Quote from: Luddite on June 06, 2014, 10:19:48 AM
Having said that, rather than a frontal impact I think a more likely scenario for a buggy involves coming off the road, possible rollover and - if the belt doesn't fit properly - potential occupant ejection, a situation which has a very high 'poor outcome' statistic.
And if running no roll bar, I think occupant ejection may be the better scenario.
Ok as that's the case I'm going to have to get a roll bar/cage of some kind, however, I really need to avoid having to do this before the car has an mot.
If I was to use lap belts in the front mounted to the chassis, just to get it through an not, then install a roll bar shortly afterwards and then 3 point seatbelts, would that be legal?
Otherwise I need to find someone who has a used rollbar or similar suitable for my buggy, or someone who can make and fit one cost effectively. It would need to be fit for purpose and presentable and have seatbelt mounts but nothing fancy.
Any ideas?
Let's be honest here.
If you are getting into the territory where you are turning a buggy over, you are heading for a world of pain /general deadness.....
In a buggy, with a single stainless roll hoop, mine included in this, you are done if you turn it over. It's bolted to the floorpan, rather than secured to welded in plates ad a full roll cage is, the front screen has zero strength in it in terms if being able to support any kind of accident weight/impact. Turn one over, at even relatively low speeds, it's game over.
The only true way would be to install a full cage, which would need to encompass a rear hoop, a front hoop around the screen at a guess, cross members where required, plus beefed up floor mount points. Even then, a roll over is gonna be some scary shizzle....
Having said all.of that, a buggy is for wafting about, in the sun, generally being daddy cool on the school run (as I do...!!) and not hooning about at breakneck speeds etc........all this from.the man about to install a Corvair engine... ::)
As Ben says a buggy isn't about being safe.
If you crash it's going to hurt unless you have a full cage. You're in a fibreglass body and are riding on a large skateboard, many of us have the fuel tank up front too. Any crash and bits of body are going to fly everywhere, maybe fuel too, and roll it over and you're likely to be face planting the tarmac.
But hey they are so much fun, whether you are being daddy cool, or honing around, you only live once, enjoy it.
Hi
I've decided I don't want a roll bar at the moment for many reasons.
I'm definitely going for seats with integrated belts, only issue is how to mount and reinforce them.
I was thinking of a crosspiece from side to side off the central tunnel and strengthen it a bit that way.
Ideas welcome on this guys
I'd be binning off the floorpans and building the chassis back up using the appropriate size box section and sheet steel to be honest if you are going with those seats....
There are plenty of build threads on here that have done it, just dont have one to hand to link to
Basically, the box section forms the edge of the chassis and then the steel plate fills in the rest. You can weld in cross members for the seats and I'd be looking at reinforcing them with gussets, plus drilling the holes in the correct place for the seat mounts and then welding in the nuts. The welding is gonna need to be good too. Some serious forces going through the mounts...
What I don't understand is why if I built a reinforced box section with supports, then that would not be good enough.
It would be anchored on the central tunnel also which seems pretty sturdy. The buggy won't be used for racing and will not be abused or anything.
I may look to get a roll cage at some point but not at present, this is why I'm looking to work within current curcumstances.
The spine end is fine. The other end would just attach to the floor pan. Not strong enough
If the spine end is fine, then if i make a point of anchoring it on that side, and building box section with supports on the other side, surely from a common sense point of view, doing this makes no difference to fitting normal seats with bolts.
I'm just struggling to get into perspective some of the comments regarding safety and such.
As I said build a box section on top of the floor and weld it down. Bolt your seat to it. Let's be honest here any accident that you get in that can rip your seat out of the floor ....you wasn't going to walk away from it in the first place. What I have suggested should satisfy any legalities regarding mot testers. Be secure under heavy braking and general road use.
All I have in mine is a roll hoop bolted to my 44 year old floor pan with inertia reel aftermarket seat belts affixed to it. If I ever get into a head on or side on impact at speeds of 40+ I know I'm dead as it's a fibreglass tub with the strength of custard. I accept that as I built it.
Your seat belt will be part of your seats, this will put extra strain on your seat anchors. Using the box section welded to the floor will help spread the load in the event of an accident. The seat belts will work fine and will keep you in your seat.
That's what I was thinking/hoping.
I will stick with what's planned and hopefully it will work.