This is some info for you new guys to the buggy building world.
I have noticed one or two chassis pictures where a red ring of death has been fitted...(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt258/shaggy1966/image_zps4055bed7.jpg)
Over the years it has been noted that these urethane steering parts fail without warning.
Please folks if you have one fitted don't just check if it's ok.....replace it with a proper rubber one like this...
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt258/shaggy1966/image_zps9e323704.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/shaggy1966/media/image_zps9e323704.jpg.html)
I'm sure many members on here will add to my statement to back it up, let's be safe in our buggies.
the ring of death i had fitted on mine had split from the inserts to the outside and was just waiting for a bump to fail :(
I bet there are some "reputable" companies selling them, shouldnt we let them know?
I think they fail because of deflection they are probably ok if they are perfectly lined up and just transmit in a 100% straight line. Still best avoided the rubbers go on for years.
bleugh bleugh bleugh bleugh
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/toddy4281/New%20Buggy/P3290105.jpg)
Anyone who have ever tried to butcher out a Beetle's steering parts from a breaker yard will know that the original steering coupler rubber has fibres insided which makes it almost impossible to break!
Quote from: Manxdavid on January 20, 2014, 05:45:19 PM
bleugh bleugh bleugh bleugh
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b213/toddy4281/New%20Buggy/P3290105.jpg)
That is a frightening picture. Get them changed if you have one.
Cool sooo glad I read this and have removed the one I had on my watch list ready for when I start putting things back together.
this part looks very similar to the ones used on Suzuki samurai,s wonder if a zuke one would fit a buggy?
....of course you could always just buy a new genuine one....
https://www.vwheritage.com/shop/beetle/111415417/steering-coupling-t1-251-419-417b-genuine-vw/?crumbStartPage=1&crumbStartRow=1
Indeed......I always put cost into perspective......what price is your health or your life £15 is cheap as far as I'm concerned, you'll never replace that again.
Quote from: Shaggy on April 25, 2015, 09:48:19 AM
Indeed......I always put cost into perspective......what price is your health or your life £15 is cheap as far as I'm concerned, you'll never replace that again.
Totally agree, the urethane ones are between £11 and £16 (Machine7 want £12:25 to convert your car to a death trap and even suggest that it is better than an original, I think I will send them a link to this thread.
If only the original VW ones came in a range of pretty colours they would sell like hot cakes
Just noticed a crack in my steering coupling, thing is it's a black one! Doesn't look like proper rubber looks quite urethane- y, did they make "black " versions of the "red" ones. Will buy a new one a sap.
Check that you have mesh thread going through it and it has pressed steel inserts in the bolt holes. If neither are present its just a poor aftermarket copy. If all are there it could be aged or stress cracking you are seeing. From my experience any way.
I did contact Machine 7 back in April to ask if they would stop stocking this deadly bit of kit, and no reply.
Just checked them and they now do a Yellow one as well
I thought they were one of the good guys but haven't used them since and dont intend to use them again
Dave
Hey thanks guys! ;-)up
One of these is sitting in it's shiny blister pack in the box o' bits that came with the rail and it was on the list to install. Now binned.
Well done that man.
Just Kampers have them in stock if anyone needs one.......
http://www.justkampers.com/111-415-417-steering-column-coupling-vw-beetle-1950-on-vw-t25-1979-1992.html
I just bought the replacement from there last night. Febi should be good quality
I notice that the RROD version is on 90 day special order only. Maybe someone there reads the forums !
I still think it is disgusting that companies we regard as reputable will sell these things for 50p profit even after being contacted about the risks. When the first person dies when one fails they will look to blame the corpse for not getting everything dead straight (excuse the pun)
That's one more company I will never use again
err.. Not sure if you were referring to my post or the one about M7 earlier ? I was pointing out that Justkampers had (effectively) pulled the RROD from sale and only offer a quality product as a replacement coupling.
My mistake, I misread it as JK stocking them. Thanks for pointing it out
Thanks for the info on the red ring of death the buggy Iv just bought has 1 fitted 😭😭 so will have change it😃
Quote from: Shaggy on January 19, 2014, 08:59:54 PM
This is some info for you new guys to the buggy building world.
I have noticed one or two chassis pictures where a red ring of death has been fitted...(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt258/shaggy1966/image_zps4055bed7.jpg)
Over the years it has been noted that these urethane steering parts fail without warning.
Please folks if you have one fitted don't just check if it's ok.....replace it with a proper rubber one like this...
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt258/shaggy1966/image_zps9e323704.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/shaggy1966/media/image_zps9e323704.jpg.html)
I'm sure many members on here will add to my statement to back it up, let's be safe in our buggies.
Quote from: Leebow on February 13, 2017, 08:08:07 PM
Thanks for the info on the red ring of death the buggy Iv just bought has 1 fitted 😭😭 so will have change it😃
;-)up ;-)up
Another northern buggy owner. ;-)up
Fancy giving us some background on you and your buggy in the Newbie Area?
I am so pleased folk are reading this and changing them over to the proper ones....so much safer
Wonder if trading standards would be interested in the sellers of these things?
Quote from: Doon L001 on February 15, 2017, 07:10:09 AM
Wonder if trading standards would be interested in the sellers of these things?
I think the first step would be to get the VW Specialist Suppliers to stop buying them in and selling them >:(
Quote from: Dave DND on February 15, 2017, 08:01:26 AM
Quote from: Doon L001 on February 15, 2017, 07:10:09 AM
Wonder if trading standards would be interested in the sellers of these things?
I think the first step would be to get the VW Specialist Suppliers to stop buying them in and selling them >:(
Well there are a few suppliers that sponser the site LimeBug/ VW Heritage/Machine 7 have
we made them aware of this ?????????
Quote from: HUDGE BUGGY on February 15, 2017, 01:06:19 PM
Quote from: Dave DND on February 15, 2017, 08:01:26 AM
Quote from: Doon L001 on February 15, 2017, 07:10:09 AM
Wonder if trading standards would be interested in the sellers of these things?
I think the first step would be to get the VW Specialist Suppliers to stop buying them in and selling them >:(
Well there are a few suppliers that sponser the site LimeBug/ VW Heritage/Machine 7 have we made them aware of this ?????????
Not officially as far as I am aware, but I know a few members have mentioned it to them before :-\
Hudge has actually raised a fair point there - maybe we should make an official awareness of the problem ? :-\
If we are going to do that, then we could do with a few more pictures of those that have failed. We all know the problem exists, but to save an argument being thrown back that we only have one very scary picture of a failure, I would ask you all to see if you can find some more pictures so that we can put a good argument together and post them on here.
;-)up
Another point to made here is that we are only a small percentage of VW beetle chassis owners on this forum restoring these 60 odd year old vehicles, what about VZI, beetleownersclub.co.uk and volks whatever - they must be aware of this problem and have potentially the same companies sponsoring their forums. ::)
As a percentage, we are indeed small
But . . . We are incredibly proactive and resourceful when it comes to stuff like this - we can also be very "noisy" too
Most other companies just look for money when it comes to sponsorship, and you will seldom see a forum owner actually posting anything
Thats what makes us a little different ;)
Quote from: Dave DND on February 15, 2017, 03:19:20 PM
we can also be very "noisy" too
Know all about that Dave ;D ;D
I wrote to Machine 7 over a year ago pointing them to this thread, did not even get a reply. So since then I have given them the same ignoring.
Trouble is they pretty much all stock them.
We need to try to do something. Not only could we save lives but if the unthinkable did happen with this thread publicly predicting it the bureaucrats trying to stop any car mods would have a field day, and then all the suppliers would suffer as well so it is in their own interests to start putting safety before profit
Once we fix that maybe we then start on sub standard fake German bits from China
Just stumbled across this thread, I have the red urethane one, I'm now going to change it. Is this the best one to change it to:
https://www.vwheritage.com/251419417b-rubber-steering-coupling-vw-spare (https://www.vwheritage.com/251419417b-rubber-steering-coupling-vw-spare)
No go for one with reinforcing in so if the rubber cracks the material will still hold it together.
My coupling is showing signs of wear - is this one from Just Kampers OK?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steering-Column-Coupling-For-VW-Beetle-1950-on-VW-T25-T31979-1992-111415417/292864177727?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steering-Column-Coupling-For-VW-Beetle-1950-on-VW-T25-T31979-1992-111415417/292864177727?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649)
I'm not sure if it's reinforced or not though, so is there better? Cost not important over safety.
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
reinforced ones are hard to find, guessing it may be rubber and not urethane so will flex better without cracking.
Well, this one is stamped 'Germany' and has the same part number as a lot of others, and pretty definitely rubber rather than urethane.
Silly question time - will it just be a matter of unbolting, replacing and then re-bolting the coupling?
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
an easy swap just check the column earth wire is in good condition whilst removed.
;-)up ;-)up
reinforced ones are hard to find, guessing it may be rubber and not urethane so will flex better without cracking.
Reinforced available from either just kampers or heritage. (forget wish). However because most people seem to want the cheapest item they can get the ring is "special order only". (Presume they don`t want to hold a stock that will cost in overheads).
It is not cheap. £35.00 last time I looked.
Quote from: Paul1953 on April 06, 2020, 02:05:32 PM
reinforced ones are hard to find, guessing it may be rubber and not urethane so will flex better without cracking.
Reinforced available from either just kampers or heritage. (forget wish). However because most people seem to want the cheapest item they can get the ring is "special order only". (Presume they don`t want to hold a stock that will cost in overheads).
It is not cheap. £35.00 last time I looked.
But will probably last more than 3.5 times as long as one costing a tenner, and you don't have to keep refitting and you will probably survive if it does rot
Pay the money and do it properly,. there's no backup steering
Agreed, I would pay for and get reinforced if I could, but neither Just Kampers or Heritage show them on their websites ;)
This one looks to be the right type but I need to check if they ship to the UK - https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/front-axle-steering/steering/3369/ (https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/front-axle-steering/steering/3369/)
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
Quote from: HughBug on April 06, 2020, 03:17:29 PM
Agreed, I would pay for and get reinforced if I could, but neither Just Kampers or Heritage show them on their websites ;)
This one looks to be the right type but I need to check if they ship to the UK - https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/front-axle-steering/steering/3369/ (https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/front-axle-steering/steering/3369/)
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
I've bought from them before they do ship to the UK
Quote from: HughBug on April 06, 2020, 03:17:29 PM
Agreed, I would pay for and get reinforced if I could, but neither Just Kampers or Heritage show them on their websites ;)
This one looks to be the right type but I need to check if they ship to the UK - https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/front-axle-steering/steering/3369/ (https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/front-axle-steering/steering/3369/)
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
Here it is... Just Kampers... A tad over £35 (It is genuine VW)
https://www.justkampers.com/111-415-409-steering-column-coupling-lower-flange-vw-beetle-1946-2003.html
Great. I think I'll order 2 in case any one else needs one :)
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
Quote from: Paul1953 on April 06, 2020, 06:04:27 PM
Quote from: HughBug on April 06, 2020, 03:17:29 PM
Agreed, I would pay for and get reinforced if I could, but neither Just Kampers or Heritage show them on their websites ;)
This one looks to be the right type but I need to check if they ship to the UK - https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/front-axle-steering/steering/3369/ (https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/front-axle-steering/steering/3369/)
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
Here it is... Just Kampers... A tad over £35 (It is genuine VW)
https://www.justkampers.com/111-415-409-steering-column-coupling-lower-flange-vw-beetle-1946-2003.html
Thanks Paul.
When I said I'd order 2 I meant from the Dutch site, but that was before I read your link ;)
I shall go with the genuine from JK.
Cheers :)
Hugh
Thanks again, ordered from Just Kampers :)
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
Also try Lee Southerton at Volksmagic 0121 541 2278.
Lee has many many contacts in the VW world and can get most things. He got my last original coupling no problem.
Thanks
Chad
;-)up ;-)up
the sort I used on Amy's beetle for Shaggy it will last for years and not break into two, pity nobody in the UK sells them although repeats sales would be virtually non existent.
Happy to report a Just Kampers one via e bay at £11.25 with free p&p arrived within 48 hours and looks fine German made and rubber.
Snoopy can you do me a favour and stick a multimeter on continuity across 2 of the metal rings. I got a new reinforced couple and mine was conductive. Seems they had reinforced with wire rather than fibres.
ah too late Gordon it is fitted and bridged but it is solid in the middle if you try and bend it so think there is a sprung steel X plate in there to the bolt holes.
took the bridge wire off and column earth circuits are inoperative and I get 0.67 ohms on 2k or with diode flow tester 711 ohms.
Can remember at work a protected earth vehicle was showing a negative fault it turned out to be the air intake rubber tubing which had the restricted air flow switch on it but the hose had nylon chord strengthening not wire spiral so not expected.
guessing the steering coupling is not pure rubber but perhaps a composite however the spacers are not connected by metal.
Just Kampers have emailed me to say they can no longer get the reinforced coupling, so I will order the normal one as per Snoopy's purchase.
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
Hugh I had the same email, so have ordered one from Paruzzi in the Netherlands
;-)up
strange the UK firms cannot stock the woven ones somebody must be making them.
Does anyone work in factory maintenance? In South Africa they cut their own out of old rubber conveyer belting ;-)up
No but I do work with tanks and the mud flaps they use have a canvas weave. Too thin though.
Quote from: Flags on April 22, 2020, 02:28:34 PM
No but I do work with tanks and the mud flaps they use have a canvas weave. Too thin though.
some of the B vehicle fleet had thick reinforced mud flaps but done so many trying to think of which ones as it has been over 3 years.
How about using an old tyre carcass?
Ttfn Glenn
Forgive my ignorance here and just thinking outside of the box,
but why can`t we adapt a universal joint to fit ? :-\
Took a look to see If Quintell Hazel or Schlegel Automotive Europe Ltd were still manufacturing rotoflex couplings. (These two companies were the prime suppliers of rotoflex couplings for the classic car industries and Land Rover). Wasn`t surprised to find that they both no longer exist. Most people will immediately think of the six bolt hole coupling for 60\70`s Triumphs etc but rotoflex couplings came in many shapes and sizes.
Quote from: Dave DND on April 22, 2020, 07:45:24 PM
Forgive my ignorance here and just thinking outside of the box,
but why can`t we adapt a universal joint to fit ? :-\
you would probably need to shorten the column to get one in even removing the 2 T sections so it clamped box shaft to column.
needs somebody with a 1303 shaft to measure the bottom joint length and compare it to a coupling and T pieces if ok then needs splines cut and bolt slot cut onto the shaft if the diameters are the same to fit the column too.
Quote from: snoopy on April 23, 2020, 08:37:27 AM
Quote from: Dave DND on April 22, 2020, 07:45:24 PM
Forgive my ignorance here and just thinking outside of the box,
but why can`t we adapt a universal joint to fit ? :-\
you would probably need to shorten the column to get one in even removing the 2 T sections so it clamped box shaft to column.
needs somebody with a 1303 shaft to measure the bottom joint length and compare it to a coupling and T pieces if ok then needs splines cut and bolt slot cut onto the shaft if the diameters are the same to fit the column too.
I have a 1303 column here and will take a look at that when I get around to changing my front end then - If anyone wants any measurements in the meantime though let me know
My Paruzzi, order was delivered today, not bad considering I ordered it 2 days ago.
Shipping was €19.95, so order a few things from them if you are ordering.
I ordered the Steering coupling disc A-quality for €11.25 each https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/front-axle-steering/steering/3369/ (https://www.paruzzi.com/uk/volkswagen/front-axle-steering/steering/3369/)
It comes in a Paruzzi branded blister pack
(https://i.postimg.cc/7LjHn59Z/0-FF4-C2-AB-EEB1-4-CCC-A45-C-93-D0315919-C6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/cKMGs4Pp)
Opening the packet is a strong smell of rubber.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9QpJvkN6/IMG-1541.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Looking side on you can see 3 rows of fabric embedded in the rubber for that peace of mind.
(https://i.postimg.cc/9M4bwQF2/IMG-1542.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I put a multimeter across the metal rings and there is no continuity, so they are proper fabric reinforcement, rather than wire as other modern replacements are supplied.
Overall very impressed. Glad I purchased 3.
That's very quick; my rubber one from Just Kampers arrived today, with a fun packet of Haribo sweets included in the envelope :)
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
Haribo! never got any with my order :(
Quote from: snoopy on April 23, 2020, 09:58:06 PM
Haribo! never got any with my order :(
Send me your name and address, date of birth, passport number, bank details and phone number and I will send them to you :D
Cheers :)
Hugh the 2nd
Thanks Hugh a generous offer but a few gummy bears is not enough of a temptation.
Quote from: snoopy on April 23, 2020, 09:58:06 PM
Haribo! never got any with my order :(
Think you have been unlucky Keith. Have bought many parts from them and a little packet of haribro each and every time. Give them to my grandkids ;-)up
Quote from: Paul1953 on April 24, 2020, 06:23:23 PM
Quote from: snoopy on April 23, 2020, 09:58:06 PM
Haribo! never got any with my order :(
Think you have been unlucky Keith. Have bought many parts from them and a little packet of haribro each and every time. Give them to my grandkids ;-)up
Seems to be a trend - I seem to get Haribo with quite a few different orders these days - :-\ Long may it continue :D
It's posts like this that are invaluable to a noob like me :) I would have bought something like this if i needed one 'coz it looks like an upgrade. Ya just can't beat experience - thank you
A damn good shout about this, especially to us newbies, luckily I haven't got one.
Another shout from me....... Take great care if replacing anything original. (ie VW manufacture). It`s not just the buggy world but classic car guys etc who despair at modern day replacement parts). Keep anything original that you can.. it may come in handy one day