https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow (https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow)
;-)up good find Hazel. I wasn't totally sure of those rules :)
Just a thought, we could split the thread in 2?
1 for my wanted and 2 separate trailer discussion :-)Geek
Good idea... Sorry, my bit was just a quick aside, but yes certainly became a useful sub topic with your links etc.
Quote from: Hazel on April 09, 2013, 11:51:38 PM
Just a thought, we could split the thread in 2?
1 for my wanted and 2 separate trailer discussion :-)Geek
;-)up
Trailer threads are always usefull too - a lot of us are towing these days
In your hands ;)
Towing on aframes unless braked are not legal even if less than 750kg ;-)up as the car is clased as a trailer once aframe fitted any trailer regardless of weight if brakes fitted ie cars wheels/ drums must work !!!!!!!
Quote from: Big Clem on May 22, 2013, 10:00:11 PM
Towing on aframes unless braked are not legal even if less than 750kg ;-)up as the car is clased as a trailer once aframe fitted any trailer regardless of weight if brakes fitted ie cars wheels/ drums must work !!!!!!!
Thats a very clear and concise definition ;-)up
There will always be a number of people who say that they have used unbraked A-Frames for many years wthout any problems, so it`s also worth mentioning that the above rules are a fairly recent change in legislation. You may have been allowed to tow with an unbraked A-Frame previously, but you are not now.
Quote from: Dave DND on May 23, 2013, 08:27:26 AM
Quote from: Big Clem on May 22, 2013, 10:00:11 PM
Towing on aframes unless braked are not legal even if less than 750kg ;-)up as the car is clased as a trailer once aframe fitted any trailer regardless of weight if brakes fitted ie cars wheels/ drums must work !!!!!!!
Thats a very clear and concise definition ;-)up
There will always be a number of people who say that they have used unbraked A-Frames for many years wthout any problems, so it`s also worth mentioning that the above rules are a fairly recent change in legislation. You may have been allowed to tow with an unbraked A-Frame previously, but you are not now.
.... And whether the local police are fully up to date with those newer rules and to be fair whether they feel its worth pulling you over for that reason alone. Simple fact is don't be surprised if they do.
Quote from: AndyRobinson on May 23, 2013, 10:06:28 AM.... And whether the local police are fully up to date with those newer rules and to be fair whether they feel its worth pulling you over for that reason alone. Simple fact is don't be surprised if they do.
There are so few plod out there these days and so few know anything about traffic law you'd be very unlucky to get done. When I tow with the A frame I make sure the Buggy's got a lighting board and the car's number plate on it, along with a breakaway cable on the tow hitch, and I make sure that everything looks 'tidy'. If I were to get stopped I'd be 'just towing it the the VW place in the next town officer, it's broken down'... ;-)up
Quote from: Manxdavid on May 23, 2013, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: AndyRobinson on May 23, 2013, 10:06:28 AM.... And whether the local police are fully up to date with those newer rules and to be fair whether they feel its worth pulling you over for that reason alone. Simple fact is don't be surprised if they do.
There are so few plod out there these days and so few know anything about traffic law you'd be very unlucky to get done. When I tow with the A frame I make sure the Buggy's got a lighting board and the car's number plate on it, along with a breakaway cable on the tow hitch, and I make sure that everything looks 'tidy'. If I were to get stopped I'd be 'just towing it the the VW place in the next town officer, it's broken down'... ;-)up
Suggest not to try that heading down to the South West then
The feds down here are
very hot on it, and actively look for the tourists and campervans towing cars - A frames are a very easy target and they will not accept any stories or excuses
;)
I'll bear that in mind thanks. I guess the change in the law came about with the popularity of towing small cars behind motorhomes.
for us young at heart ones passing your test years ago make life easier.
Quote from: snoopy on May 23, 2013, 04:42:57 PM
for us young at heart ones passing your test years ago make life easier.
Apparently I can ride a moped on my license...I've never ridden anything on two wheels in my life, I'd be lethal!!! ;D
You couldn`t be any worse on two wheels than this guy
Need to watch the whole clip if you haven`t yet done so
http://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php/topic,1666.0.html
;D
Buggy weights 600kg... Surely thats OK to be towed on an A frame without needing it to be braked. Just whack on the tow light bar on the back and off we go?
Quote from: apmaman on May 23, 2013, 05:34:06 PM
Buggy weights 600kg... Surely thats OK to be towed on an A frame without needing it to be braked. Just whack on the tow light bar on the back and off we go?
May be on a technicality as a trailer is a dead unregistered item the car is self propelled so not a trailer.
caravan movers aside but you could not travel far with them.
The rules changed and they are actually very simple.
If whatever you are towing has brakes fitted, then they have to operate from the towing vehicle.
Quote from: apmaman on May 23, 2013, 05:34:06 PM
Buggy weights 600kg... Surely thats OK to be towed on an A frame without needing it to be braked. Just whack on the tow light bar on the back and off we go?
That used to be the way but nowaday's if the trailer or vehicle's got brakes fitted then they've got to work.
I'd certainly use your reasoning as an excuse if I got stopped though.
Quote from: Manxdavid on May 23, 2013, 06:25:44 PM
Quote from: apmaman on May 23, 2013, 05:34:06 PM
Buggy weights 600kg... Surely thats OK to be towed on an A frame without needing it to be braked. Just whack on the tow light bar on the back and off we go?
That used to be the way but nowaday's if the trailer or vehicle's got brakes fitted then they've got to work.
I'd certainly use your reasoning as an excuse if I got stopped though.
God loves a chancer. :D
Quote from: Dave DND on May 23, 2013, 06:07:40 PM
The rules changed and they are actually very simple.
If whatever you are towing has brakes fitted, then they have to operate from the towing vehicle.
Ah booo. The tow hitch on my buggy has been made so it hitches on and thats it. Guess I'll need to made an A frame mount or something.
I'm just as upset about this recent update to the law of the road - I have been A-framing my buggy around for years without issue, now my A-frame is illegal as it does not have any way of interacting with the brakes on the buggy.
The buggy is wired such that it has a trailer board socket at the front that connects to the lighting circuits and I mount trailer warning triangles as well to show it is a trailer.
I used to padlock the hitch closed and use a motorbike padlock and chain to secure the A-frame to the towing car just in case the hitch broke loose, the towing car weighing substantially more than the buggy and the buggy well within the towing car's towing capacity, but apparently this is not enough any more.
So now I have to look for an alternate A-frame, potentially one that has inertia braking and a break-away cable attached to the A-frame hand brake. I also need to have a means of connecting to either the brake pedal, or to the handbrake in order to facilitate the requirement for the buggy brakes to be active whilst towing.
However, there is yet another European directive, UN ECE Regulation 13 section 5.2.2.2, coming into effect in 2014, that stipulates that inertia braking can only be used on centre axle trailers, this would effectively mean that inertia braked A-frames would also become illegal. VOSA has still yet to decide how to implement this directive in the UK, and if it would apply retrospectively to existing A-Frames.
So I think I may hold fire a little longer to see what happens with the legislation, rather than buy another heavy paperweight.
These things arise from the idiots that push the rules saw a astra van with car trailer with a range rover on it :o do these people get caught ??? But bet if I put my buggy wieghting 540kg on an a frame I'd get a pull >:(
so... time to buy a big car trailer then.....
just a shame theyre 20ft long and almost impossible for anyone to store....
Quote from: apmaman on May 25, 2013, 10:20:38 PM
so... time to buy a big car trailer then.....
just a shame theyre 20ft long and almost impossible for anyone to store....
Thats the problem if there not bolted down some enterprising pikey will have it ::)
Quote from: Big Clem on May 25, 2013, 10:33:08 PM
Quote from: apmaman on May 25, 2013, 10:20:38 PM
so... time to buy a big car trailer then.....
just a shame theyre 20ft long and almost impossible for anyone to store....
Thats the problem if there not bolted down some enterprising pikey will have it ::)
You're not wrong there with had a few go over the years at work along with 415v generators, we say we're sure our old plant is powering half the funfairs now ;D ;D
Only problem is a lot of the younger folk need to take a test to get the trailer category of their licence as we have had to put a load through it, it's ok for us old fogeys with it already on there ;-)up ;D
Quote from: Big Clem on May 25, 2013, 09:02:16 PM
These things arise from the idiots that push the rules saw a astra van with car trailer with a range rover on it :o do these people get caught ??? But bet if I put my buggy wieghting 540kg on an a frame I'd get a pull >:(
Must be something special about astra vans I caught up with a white one (the best colour) towing a cast/steel roller(the big agricultural ones) well over 8ft wide down the A46 a few years ago no lights or nothing just lots of noise doing about 20mph and not a police car insight.
great article and found this to compliment it .
Towing with a Motorhome - The Camping and Caravanning Club
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=towing%20a%20car%20behind%20an%20rv&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk%2Fhelpandadvice%2Ftechnicalhelp%2Ftowing%2Ftowing-with-a-motorhome%2F&ei=2f6_UYitAofaPOCMgMgI&usg=AFQjCNGtxzzIkc5OnBK-OyFHNwTmvWEqKg
but really got me thinking more about what is a trailer ? at the end of a day its a drawabar with a braked axle . and as we all have trouble storing a normal trailer and dont want to have it around when not in use , just how basic can a trailer become ?
is it possible to extend the drawbar for a towing dolly and instead of picking up the front wheels , using airbag suspension , develop an chassis that would pick up the rear with the drawbar extending forward and out the front of the vehicle . i realise there are concerns about nose weights and such but trying to think out side the box and getting away from a flatbed trailer .
or summat like this
(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii484/andys911/trailer/DSC02718_zpsb6859340.jpg) (http://s1256.photobucket.com/user/andys911/media/trailer/DSC02718_zpsb6859340.jpg.html)
(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii484/andys911/trailer/DSC02717_zpseaaca887.jpg) (http://s1256.photobucket.com/user/andys911/media/trailer/DSC02717_zpseaaca887.jpg.html)
Interesting idea..... :)
(Hope you don't mind, thought I would sort out your link above to actually shown the photos direct. ) ;-)up
If space is an issue for storage of a flatbed trailer, why not consider a car dollie ?
(http://www.johnsontrailerco.com/images/trailer_images/2011/car-dollie-big.jpg)
Ok so its $1200 in the USA, but would that be OK in this country? Since its braked, it would overcome the A frame braked/unbraked issue??
its pricely but got to be a bit of a solution may be?
Quote from: Andys9 on June 18, 2013, 07:58:11 AM
is it possible to extend the drawbar for a towing dolly and instead of picking up the front wheels , using airbag suspension , develop an chassis that would pick up the rear with the drawbar extending forward and out the front of the vehicle . i realise there are concerns about nose weights and such but trying to think out side the box and getting away from a flatbed trailer .
or summat like this
(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii484/andys911/trailer/DSC02718_zpsb6859340.jpg) (http://s1256.photobucket.com/user/andys911/media/trailer/DSC02718_zpsb6859340.jpg.html)
(http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii484/andys911/trailer/DSC02717_zpseaaca887.jpg) (http://s1256.photobucket.com/user/andys911/media/trailer/DSC02717_zpseaaca887.jpg.html)
Think you're talking about what the call a T trailer in the US
(http://www.dune-buggy.com/uploads/BuggyTalk/bbs228/228323.JPG)
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/5/8421738da49754d77aeec2a744f382bf/l.jpg)
T trailer is a neat idea over run brakes and hand brake so legal, I thought towing dollies had been banned as you used to see a lot around with recovery firms now they seem extinct and you still have 2 unbraked wheels on the road.
T trailer would not need any brakes if all in under 750kg but I bet it would tow like s##t over 45mph ???
Quote from: Big Clem on June 18, 2013, 09:46:30 PMI bet it would tow like s##t over 45mph ???
why is that then??
Quote from: snoopy on June 18, 2013, 05:33:08 PM
T trailer is a neat idea over run brakes and hand brake so legal, I thought towing dollies had been banned as you used to see a lot around with recovery firms now they seem extinct and you still have 2 unbraked wheels on the road.
OK I haven't read it myself yet, but just found this from gov site on the rules etc for A-Frames and Dollies:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_200824.pdf (http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_200824.pdf)
liking the picture of the 2nd 'T' trailer . low slung and may well not need ramps . ratchet straps around the rear wheels but not sure how it clamps to the front cross member . any reason why it would handle like c**p ? and could be stood on end when not in use / removable drawbar ?
good find on the reg's there andy.
The T trailer is a good idea it would depend on it's max authorised mass as to brakes or not but it will be lighter than a normal trailer so a buggy of 600kgs or below and a light trailer may keep it below the 750kgs measured weight.
build one at home and it needs an iva test now and will get a MAM put on it.
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_files/127_IVA_O1O4_Inspection_Manual_0311.pdf
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/Transport_files/IVA_Information_Guide.pdf
And likewise a good find there too Snoopy...
Just saw this little extract:
1.9 When does IVA not apply?
• Vehicles designed and constructed for use by the armed services, civil defence, fire services
and forces responsible for maintaining public order.
So does that mean the buggy Mel made, currently on the market, is clear? ;D ;D ;D
Seriously, I've just added one of links Keith posted and some of others which might help for IVA/MOTs as a sticky in this section - see the great V5 debate.
Good call Andy, I`ll see if I can add those to the archives at some point, so we don`t ever lose them
;-)up
Quote from: moss on June 19, 2013, 12:21:40 AM
Quote from: Big Clem on June 18, 2013, 09:46:30 PMI bet it would tow like s##t over 45mph ???
why is that then??
Most single axel trailers don't tow well at speed tend to skip alot
http://www.the-smart-way.co.uk/doineedbe.shtml
just for info . have just weighed my Predator swb . no soft top / full fuel tank .
560kg .
so , for me , too close to call for an unbraked trailer . would need to be a braked axle .