Hi All,
I recently purchase a tramp and I would like to put wolfrace slot mags on it, for which I need to hunt down a set.
However, the question is what is the right set, cosmetically for my personal tastes the car needs larger wheels on the rear too (or is it just larger tyre on wider wheels at the rear?
Anyway , I'm looking for advise on right sizes and also the correct wolfrace wheels to chase down eg 100E ? etc
Thanks
S
Good sizes would be something in the region of 8x15 rear and 6x 14 front or similar. Is your car 4 bolt or 5 bolt hubs? 4 bolt VW pattern ones are out there but rare and often expensive. 5 bolt wheels are more common, usually in US Chevy or Ford pattern but these would need wheel adapters or replacement drums or discs to fit them.
Thanks, I'm thinking of fitting discs so I will bear that in mind.
What did you end up buying? Any pics?
I bought the red one out of Northern Ireland that I posted a couple of weeks ago, I got him down quite a bit on the price but I am sure many will say I have over paid still (which may be right so I will keep final price to myself), it needs some work, but most appealing from my perspective and why I went for that particular one, was the many original parts still being with the car, many of the others listed had been chopped and changed which was not what I wanted.
More pics will follow at some point but it is still on the Lorry !
Quote from: Superleggera5 on September 03, 2019, 01:21:04 PM
I got him down quite a bit on the price but I am sure many will say I have over paid still (which may be right so I will keep final price to myself)
Seller will always want more, and as a buyer you will always want to pay less.
Doesn`t matter what it cost you, because if you have paid out, then you thought the price was right and thats all that matters.
All that said, the silly grin on your face in the future will be priceless :D :D
Congratulations on your purchase what ever you paid it was worth it like you say it has a lot of original parts especially the rear seats. I look forward to seeing the photos as you recreate your childhood memories ;-)up
These would be perfect but you may need different adapters, you'd easily sell these on though. These are the original Wolfrace wheels when they were still making American Racing ones under license in England.
http://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php/topic,12616.msg130294/boardseen.html#new
intersting,where does one find adaptors if you need to change them?
https://www.vwheritage.com/ac601201-wheel-adapter-5x205-to-chevrolet-or-jaguar-pair-vw-spare
...or put a wanted ad here or on volkszone. Tip...the makers have increased the stud size on these in the past few years from 7/16" to 1/2" unf so second hand ones would more likely better suit the nuts that come with Dave DND's adapters.
So when checking for various wheels I find many different markings (or absence of)
Does anyone know what the difference between "wolfrace GKN" and "wolfrace Vale" is - I gather GKN owned wolfrace (at least at some point)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fGdf-amrXdLLf1P5KG9aQ358cHhlDHxs (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1fGdf-amrXdLLf1P5KG9aQ358cHhlDHxs)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yJ0xnOlCw3-LYgMXiJOpac3d_wHinRej (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yJ0xnOlCw3-LYgMXiJOpac3d_wHinRej)
I would post photos but photobucket is already complaining that I have surpassed my limit, with only 8 photos loaded and I have only used for this forum - I've had enough of that already, so I have shared from google drive on above link I hope that works for everyone to click a link.
Wolfrace used various foundries for their castings over the years.
John Woolfe started the wheel company in the late 60s selling American Racing wheels (copies of American Ansen slot mags) cast under licence in England. I belive GKN took over running the company for a while after John Woolfe's death dropping an 'o' from the name to form Wolfrace That's when they started casting Wolfrace, wheel sizes, offsets etc into the wheel rims (ugly imho) They could have farmed out production to other foundries I guess. The current Wolfrace company have very little if anything to do with the original bar for the name though.
John Woolfe Racing are still trading I think, selling US car parts, they may know more.
Here's some early American Racing/Wolfies on the back of the John Woolfe Racing/Dennis Priddle top fuel dragster and the Hot Wheels/Ed Shaver AMC Javelin. From an ancient Hot Car magazine.
(http://www.sporting-reliants.com/images/Racers/HotWheels.jpg)
Thanks found them at the following URL for those that are interested:
https://www.woolfe.com (https://www.woolfe.com)
I will see if they can add further light on the question.
However, given the info already offered . . . . I grew up with the name wolfrace so I was fixed on that, but hearing a little bit of the back story it would seem that as American Racing Ansens could be seen as the "original" makers.
Are there any views as to whether one is better made, or rarer than another? (or just a preference by name)
It also seems if I shop outside the UK I can get more interesting prices (although language complications have to then be considered) , for example I have found a set of 4 wheels size 8.5 x 15 available for 200 Euro (stamped wolfrace VALE, although they are a 5 stud pattern . . . .
I don't think anyone has ever payed the casting numbers any attention. They're all just Wolfies, whether they're ARE, GKN or whatever. All as cool as each other.
Quote from: Manxdavid on September 10, 2019, 02:26:56 PM
I don't think anyone has ever payed the casting numbers any attention. They're all just Wolfies, whether they're ARE, GKN or whatever. All as cool as each other.
Will have to see what mine are. They also have a 2 digit number on the rim which I assume is year of manufacture. No it isn't 14 and 15
Quote from: Doon L001 on September 10, 2019, 02:32:56 PM
Quote from: Manxdavid on September 10, 2019, 02:26:56 PM
I don't think anyone has ever payed the casting numbers any attention. They're all just Wolfies, whether they're ARE, GKN or whatever. All as cool as each other.
Will have to see what mine are. They also have a 2 digit number on the rim which I assume is year of manufacture. No it isn't 14 and 15
Could be the ET (offset or inset) in mm.
Could be. I thought dates as they are something like 78 and 85 and they are 2 subtly different designs.
Will look next time I roll her out of the garage
Mine have wolfrace GKN the size and date made cast into the outer bead. The man who made Minilite wheels told me he and his mate used to polish the rough wheels for GKN when the cast them in South Wales many years ago.
Hi All,
Digging up an old post here and I have been absent for a couple of years, however, I am now able to work on progressing getting my Tramp on the road and as I look for Wlfrace (or other) slot mags I am now in the process of learning all about Stud Patterns !
So as my tramp is sat on a 1965 Chassis many of you will know already but I have just learnt that I have a stud pattern of 5x205 which is not great for finding slot mags (and those that are drilled at that size are not the prettiest!), so I am wondering about upgrading to disks and getting a pattern of 4x130 or 5x130, but this does not seem highly economical and I have been advised that drums are perfectly good for a buggy as they are so light?
I am therefore thinking about getting one of these:
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac601201-wheel-adapter-5x205-to-chevrolet-or-jaguar-pair.html?qty=1 (https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac601201-wheel-adapter-5x205-to-chevrolet-or-jaguar-pair.html?qty=1)
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac601203-wheel-adapter-5x205-to-4x130-stud-pattern-pair.html?qty=1 (https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac601203-wheel-adapter-5x205-to-4x130-stud-pattern-pair.html?qty=1)
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac601206-ssp-wheel-adaptors-25mm-from-5x205-to-5x130.html?qty=1 (https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac601206-ssp-wheel-adaptors-25mm-from-5x205-to-5x130.html?qty=1)
However I would need to switch from Bolts to nuts if I used one of these, checking out Ebay I found the following:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182805685725 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182805685725)
Has anybody used any of the above and got any advise they can offer me?
Also, I would be interested in any pros/cons on the stud patterns when looking for Slot Mags, as I notice in Germany for example I cannot find 5x130 but 5x120 are available and US seems to be short on 5x130 (5x5) too.
And finally if anybody knows of slot mags for sale please let me know.
Thanks
Those adapters will work but will add an inch or so to your track each side. You'll be able to get nuts and taper washers to suit those adapters in 1/2"unf
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8x-Wolfrace-wheelnuts-wheel-nuts-sleevenuts-1-2-unf-x11-16-17-5mm-shank-diam-/184433821229?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Most slotmags of that age will be drilled for American cars or Jags so will be measured in inches, most will be 4 3/4" pcd by 5 stud (Chevrolet or Jag) or 4 1/2" pcd by 5 stud (US Ford). Chevy are more common for adapters. 4 bolt VW slotmags are out there but are scarcer and hence tend to be more expensive.
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac601201-wheel-adapter-5x205-to-chevrolet-or-jaguar-pair.html
Quote from: Manxdavid on September 15, 2021, 12:12:04 PM
Those adapters will work but will add an inch or so to your track each side. You'll be able to get nuts and taper washers to suit those adapters in 1/2"unf
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/8x-Wolfrace-wheelnuts-wheel-nuts-sleevenuts-1-2-unf-x11-16-17-5mm-shank-diam-/184433821229?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0
Most slotmags of that age will be drilled for American cars or Jags so will be measured in inches, most will be 4 3/4" pcd by 5 stud (Chevrolet or Jag) or 4 1/2" pcd by 5 stud (US Ford). Chevy are more common for adapters. 4 bolt VW slotmags are out there but are scarcer and hence tend to be more expensive.
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac601201-wheel-adapter-5x205-to-chevrolet-or-jaguar-pair.html
Hi David, I have been talking to Sean about some slot mags I have but was wondering if you could use adapters for them. I heard it was important to use the right bolts with shoulders on them and then the correct angled washers and I hear these are hard to find now. So was wondering if it was safe or weather any adaptors would fit them. I had told him I didn't think he could use them but ask on hear!
Rob
Quote
Hi David, I have been talking to Sean about some slot mags I have but was wondering if you could use adapters for them. I heard it was important to use the right bolts with shoulders on them and then the correct angled washers and I hear these are hard to find now. So was wondering if it was safe or weather any adaptors would fit them. I had told him I didn't think he could use them but ask on hear!
Rob
There were a lot of different makes of slots so hard to generalise but most, if not all nuts are available to suit studded adapters. Bolts tend to be harder to get hold of for fitting 4 hole wheels onto 4 bolt hubs. Some wheels were drilled by the dealers not by the makers so there are some oddities. Post a pic of the centers of the wheels that you've got. Who's Sean :-\
Superlegra5if you need 5 x205 to 4 x130 beetle adaptors I have 6 here 4 with nuts on but without looking what size the nuts are pretty sure they are shouldered for ally wheels though but going cheap to get them out of the box they have lived in for about 4 years.
Quote from: snoopy on September 15, 2021, 03:23:54 PM
Superlegra5if you need 5 x205 to 4 x130 beetle adaptors I have 6 here 4 with nuts on but without looking what size the nuts are pretty sure they are shouldered for ally wheels though but going cheap to get them out of the box they have lived in for about 4 years.
Thanks Snoopy, I might well take you up on that, I will pm you once I am clear on what I am doing.
Quote from: Manxdavid on September 15, 2021, 02:20:26 PM
Who's Sean :-\
[/quote]
Well I will only give you one guess to work that one out . . . . . . . .
Quote from: Superleggera5 on September 15, 2021, 04:54:32 PM
Quote from: Manxdavid on September 15, 2021, 02:20:26 PM
Who's Sean :-\
Well I will only give you one guess to work that one out . . . . . . . .
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXvWvYXt/0-game-of-thrones.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
If it's possible I would change your brake drums for new ones pre drilled for five stud Chevy this will make life easy when choosing wheels and wheel bolts. Just my opinion but I would go for bigger diameter wheels on the Tramp as it's a long wheelbase Buggy and they will visually be more in proportion. Take a look at the Meyers Manx Manxster a lot of those have great wheel and tyre combinations. I have gone for Chevy bolt pattern 15 's up front and 17's on the rear of my Manx. I love the Tramp Roadster as my dad built one back in 1970.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mgxvjhVz/1-CBF1837-B850-4-B81-AD37-87127-D8-FC5-A4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfrZPDkc)
Hi Manxrod,
I notice you are running disks on front, what about the rears?
You can get rear drums custom drilled for Chevy pattern that would fit your earlier short splined axles with a little bit of machining, but I don't know of any custom drilled drums for king and linkpin front ends, or know of anyone that currently sells disc conversions that fit different stud patterns.
https://www.justkampers.com/air-cooled-vw-parts/vw-beetle-parts/braking-system/brake-drums-wheel-cylinders-backing-plates/98-5002-7-beetle-rear-brake-drum-with-5-x-130-porsche-stud-pattern-and-5x4-3-4-chevy-stud-pattern-fits-1968-1979-beetles.html
Heritage parts seems to have a few disk options for a 65 car:
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac6982925-front-disc-brake-kit-with-5x205-5x130-stud-pattern-with-dropped-spindles.html?qty=1 (https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac6982925-front-disc-brake-kit-with-5x205-5x130-stud-pattern-with-dropped-spindles.html?qty=1)
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac598222912-empi-rear-brake-disc-kit-for-5x130-or-5x4-75-stud-pattern.html?qty=1 (https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac598222912-empi-rear-brake-disc-kit-for-5x130-or-5x4-75-stud-pattern.html?qty=1)
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac598222865-empi-rear-disc-brake-kit-for-4x130-stud-pattern.html?qty=1 (https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac598222865-empi-rear-disc-brake-kit-for-4x130-stud-pattern.html?qty=1)
Whilst I am considering doing disk upgrades for the front the only ones for sale seem to be 5x130 pattern (which is much better than 5x205 but is not the chevy/jag pattern)
Concerning drilling drums, anybody have someone that provides that service?
Quote from: Manxrod on September 15, 2021, 07:46:33 PM
If it's possible I would change your brake drums for new ones pre drilled for five stud Chevy this will make life easy when choosing wheels and wheel bolts. Just my opinion but I would go for bigger diameter wheels on the Tramp as it's a long wheelbase Buggy and they will visually be more in proportion. Take a look at the Meyers Manx Manxster a lot of those have great wheel and tyre combinations. I have gone for Chevy bolt pattern 15 's up front and 17's on the rear of my Manx. I love the Tramp Roadster as my dad built one back in 1970.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mgxvjhVz/1-CBF1837-B850-4-B81-AD37-87127-D8-FC5-A4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfrZPDkc)
Hi Maxrod, your Dads name wasn't David by any change?
Bye the way what brand are the wheels? they look similar but not the same as US Mags?
VW drums can't be redrilled safely, the strengthening webs are in the wrong places on the rears and front drums are totally the wrong shape to redrill. Custom drilled rear drums are based on different castings. You may be able to get a machine shop to redrill those Empi front discs for different stud pattern but can't tell without seeing plus they're really $$$ and many would say overkill for the light front end on a buggy
Quote from: Manxdavid on September 16, 2021, 09:56:48 AM
VW drums can't be redrilled safely, the strengthening webs are in the wrong places on the rears and front drums are totally the wrong shape to redrill. Custom drilled rear drums are based on different castings. You may be able to get a machine shop to redrill those Empi front discs for different stud pattern but can't tell without seeing plus they're really $$$ and many would say overkill for the light front end on a buggy
Thanks Manxdavid, I suspected from looking at pictures of the drums that the webbing was where the holes would need to go so thanks for the confirmation . . .
Concerning disks, Yes my mechanic working on the car at the moment said the drums are perfectly good considering the weight(or lack of) of the car, I just remember having drums on my 1968 Ford Escort and driving through flood water to find that I had no brakes when I got to the other side, it took nearly 3 miles of driving with one foot on the brake to dry them out, luckily no one was coming the other way in the narrow Devon country lanes, so since them I have been a fan of at least getting fronts converted to disk. And after all buggies are great for taking out on the beach (when you can find one you are allowed on) :D
P.S. the bloke that had my car before was undoubtedly a cow-boy neither the front or rear fender were attached in safe places (or at all in the case of some of the front mounts.
This kit would work for you if you found a supplier in the UK. It retains your current spindles with a bolt on caliper bracket and later 4 bolt discs/hubs. 6x15 4 bolt Wolfies are common enough.
https://www.jbugs.com/product/22-2986.html
Here you go, special order though...
https://www.heritagepartscentre.com/uk/ac6982986-front-disc-kit-4-130-t1-65-for-standard-k-l-spindle-empi.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw1ouKBhC5ARIsAHXNMI8FZwGHhSKs9TMmj4Wo1ryhpEn7W5Qmdjw9KdyTt0e1yrDuaorbI9EaAsYhEALw_wcB
Thanks,
However, I notice in the on JBUGS website they mention 15" or more wheels (don't mention the same on the heritage site) but this would give me a problem to run 7x14 front (with 8x15 rears) which is what I was planning on as finding larger diameter the 15 for Wolfrace slot mags seems to be a challenge. Although newer slot mags (eg US Mags) seem to go between 15 and 17.
I doubt any maker would claim that their calipers would fit inside a 14" wheel, especially one as thick as a cast alloy Wolfie.
Quote from: Superleggera5 on September 16, 2021, 07:43:09 AM
Hi Manxrod,
I notice you are running disks on front, what about the rears?
Yes disks on the front and drums on the rear I think that I got them from CSP Custom & speed parts.
I've got 14x6 on the front and 15x8.5 on the back with standard beetle disks at the front.
When choosing wheel sizes don't forget it affects gearing and a decent height sidewall and lower pressure can make the ride nicer
(https://i.postimg.cc/mgxvjhVz/1-CBF1837-B850-4-B81-AD37-87127-D8-FC5-A4.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hfrZPDkc)
[/quote]
Hi Maxrod, your Dads name wasn't David by any change?
Bye the way what brand are the wheels? they look similar but not the same as US Mags?
[/quote]
My Dads name was Keith Hill and we lived in a Village just out side of Honiton. We first saw the Tramp Roadster at the Devon county show I think that it was 1970. I can remember going down to Brixham and going for a ride in the demonstrator ( the Green one featured in the Buggy magazine) I was 8 years old. My Dad then ordered one in the same colour as the demonstrator and it was finished and on the road in 1971. It's on my wish list to find a reasonably priced Tramp and restore it to resemble the one my Dad built with a few updates.
The wheels on my Manx are Boyd Coddington Smoothie 1's. If you can manage to change to Chevy bolt pattern the wheel choice is extensive.
Boyd Coddington ... (sadly no longer with us).
Really miss watching this guy and his crew on telly. :'( :'(
Quote from: Doon L001 on September 16, 2021, 06:23:51 PM
I've got 14x6 on the front and 15x8.5 on the back with standard beetle disks at the front.
When choosing wheel sizes don't forget it affects gearing and a decent height sidewall and lower pressure can make the ride nicer
Sure but there's no way of knowing who's calipers Empi are supplying with their kits, plus there's more room inside steel wheels because they're thinner than cast alloy ones.
You're absolutely right David. Just saying my 14" 4 hole Wolfrace fit over 1972 VW discs ok. Ball joint front of course
Quote from: Doon L001 on September 17, 2021, 05:10:08 PM
You're absolutely right David. Just saying my 14" 4 hole Wolfrace fit over 1972 VW discs ok. Ball joint front of course
Same here - Wolfrace 14" with Discs on 4x130
(http://beachbuggy.info/Buggypedia/Brakes/brakes001.jpg)
http://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php/topic,20.msg62087.html#msg62087
Quote from: Dave DND on September 17, 2021, 05:17:53 PM
Quote from: Doon L001 on September 17, 2021, 05:10:08 PM
You're absolutely right David. Just saying my 14" 4 hole Wolfrace fit over 1972 VW discs ok. Ball joint front of course
Same here - Wolfrace 14" with Discs on 4x130
(http://beachbuggy.info/Buggypedia/Brakes/brakes001.jpg)
http://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php/topic,20.msg62087.html#msg62087
No chance with drop spindles then :-\ :-\ :-\