Beach Buggy .Info

Whilst I am by no means a VW Purist, I fully respect that there are many out there that have a clear definition of what a Buggy should be and how it should look, and what follows here will have many of you grumbling and groaning. Personally, I just enjoy the randomness of each one that we see, and my only hope is that the "scene" will last for many years to come. We have many Body manufacturers amongst us to keep them all looking good, we have plenty of metal to keep patching up the old chassis, and there are a few spaceframes and bespoke chassis welders out there to keep us going on the new builds also. But what about the engines?

The original Air Cooled Type 1 engine ticks virtually all the boxes bar one, and that is that in its standard guise is woefully underpowered for today's high speed motoring. That said, it is exceptionally easy to bolt on some extra power in the form of larger barrels and pistons and twin carbs, and you only have to look at what some of the guys have done on here to realize that the Beetle engine can really scream if you want it to. Performance comes at a high cost though, and good parts are getting increasingly hard to find.

For those that want a bigger engine, then the Type 4 can provide fuel injection, and the 2 liter T25 engine has enough grunt to push the weight of a camper about, let alone a Buggy, and the conversion is also very simple to do. But, there is also a major downside in that shiney parts are non existent and standard parts prices are rocketing skywards at an alarming rate. Some have even opted for the Corvair 6 cylinder conversion which is nothing short of awesome. However, everything I have mentioned so far has the same achilles heel apart from very old technology. The ChineBay parts are of sub standard quality and the genuine parts are fast approaching the end of their serviceable lives.

Recent events with my own engine prompted me to see what else was out there, and one of the names that keeps coming up is that of Subaru. I used to own a Subaru Forester, and it was indeed fairly bulletproof. The in-joke amongst Scooby owners was that if it went wrong, you didn`t bother fixing it, because for a hundred and fifty quid, you just changed the engine. A beery chat with a mate of mine threw up that a friend of his was scrapping a Subaru H6, which has a 3.3 litre flat six engine, and apart from not knowing that such a beast even existed, I also wondered why I had never heard of it being put into a VW? There must be a good reason why it is not considered, and after much research indeed there was. Its physically too long for the campers and far too powerful for the VW Beetle gearbox and would break it the minute you tried to pull away.

It took me a while to find that bit of info though, and after a few nights trawling the interweb I was surprised just how much information is out there that all covers so very little. Loads of posts can be found about those undertaking the conversion, they all get hit by various stumbling blocks, wiring, oil sump conversion, fuel supplies etc, but very few threads seemed to cover everything. Most are putting the engines into Watercooled campers, so the major problem faced by us of radiators are seldom even mentioned. By this time, my mind was buzzing, and I thought I would have a detailed look at the Subaru conversion from start to finish, but with a bit of a twist - I`m not doing this in my Buggy - I`m going to convert a Subaru.

;D

Ok, that has probably confused you, so let me explain better. With the exception of the gearbox adapter plate, I`m going to try and convert everything else to be completely stand alone within the Subaru shell, relocate a radiator in the back and rewire it all in such a way that it should be a little more understandable for those wanting to splice it all into a Buggy from start to finish.

So, where do you start?

You can buy an unknown engine on eBay for £150 which has so many pipes and cables hanging off it, that its actually a bit daunting. How do you know if you have all the bits needed? You can buy a ready made VW converted wiring loom for around £400, and an adapter plate is around £500. but is that all that you need? What does it actually cost? What is actually involved?

Well, the only way of finding out is to jump in feet first and have a bash.

The starting point is deciding which engine option you are wanting to go for. Ignore the 1.8 engine as it uses a very expensive adapter plate, whereas the 2.0, 2.2 and 2.5 all use the same one. There are single overhead cams, dual overhead cams and of course you will all be falling into the same old trap as I did by now of the word Turbo. Remember why I couldn't use the 6 cylinder engine, the Beetle gearbox just cannot take the power. Unless you want to spend a fortune getting the box drastically upgraded, the general consensus is that it is easily destroyed by anything bigger than 140BHp. Turbo is fast approaching 200, so for this experiment we will, ignore it. The 2.5 DOHC engine is around 165BHp and some of the 2.2 engines have stories of head gasket failure around 130K miles. The 2.0 SOHC engine seems to be generally regarded as the one to go for, because even in its standard form it is still over three times the power of a Beetle engine and there are many cars with mileages way in excess of 180K that are still going strong. At 135BHp it can still kill a gearbox, but so long as you do not drop the clutch and wheelspin everywhere, it seems to be regarded as ok.

So we have chosen the engine and now to find a donor vehicle. Too old a car, and it will be knackered high miler, and too late a vehicle, it will have the complex drive by wire systems that are a pain to convert. The Subaru Legacy is probably the one to aim for, as generally looked after, whilst the Impreza Saloon will have been thrashed by every Chav that has ever stolen it. The spectacularly bland Forester has probably had the easiest life, but I am unawares how different the ECU mapping would be for such a large old plodder compared with the racey Impreza.

As a confirmed Petrol Head, it goes against the grain somewhat to buy a perfectly good car and chop it up into pieces, but it was pointed out to me that a Brain and Heart transplant meant that the soul lived on and was ready for an adventure. The plan is to buy a car, strip everything off it and see if you can actually finance most of the conversion by selling the bits off. Looking at ebay prices, 4WD gearboxes go for £350, interior £150, door cards £75, Lights £50 each, wheels, tyres, switches, etc, etc, everything has a value. Theoretically its possible to end up with an engine for nothing, but I have never tried it - so here goes.

Excellent post Dave

One of my buddies form some time ago had a 2.0 in a camper took a bit of fiddling but it worked and went like a train. i also saw a buggy with what sounded like a scooby engine at santa pod a few years back, it had some short type of wheelie bars hanging out the back.

I did toy with the idea of a V8 for my buggy as parts for the T4 engine are expensive even second hand, i did find a Porsche supplier 914 specialist and you would need to re mortgage the house for the parts.

Looking forward to reading through your findings. 

Have you looked into fitting a scooby box with a 2wd conversion instead of a vw unit.

Should not have taken you for a spin in the kango and then spotting you in a purple n greenn buggy having a test ride with a scooby unit. Just think, heaters demisters and less servicing.

Quote from: snoopy on May 03, 2017, 08:16:34 AM
Have you looked into fitting a scooby box with a 2wd conversion instead of a vw unit.

I did have a look at that one, but the Subaru box goes backwards. Conversion prices are silly at around £2K and then you have to fit the box in place. Sure you would get a 5 speed box, but the VW Van box is also very strong and can be fitted for a lot less than the Scooby one. No, I wanted to see what the basic conversion would entail and what can be done with our existing setup and running gear.

Quote from: snoopy on May 03, 2017, 08:16:34 AM
Should not have taken you for a spin in the kango and then spotting you in a purple n greenn buggy having a test ride with a scooby unit. Just think, heaters demisters and less servicing.

Keith, your Fiat twin cam Kango pulls fantastically and shows what an alternative engine can do - I was mighty impressed. But don`t underestimate what a well set up Beetle engine can do either - Andy Robinson took me for a spin in his Buggy and it really shifts - And I have to say that my own T25 engine is certainly no slouch either and would give many a run for their money. But apart from the power and smoothness of the Subaru, you also have another few thousand useable revs from the engine, and that has to give us something to play with.

Just rang my parents as they had an old 2.0ltr Subaru Legacy with a good engine that had been sitting in their yard for a few years. They scrapped it last week :(

Andy AKA The General has done this twice to his sandrail. Once to the 2L and then just now to the 2.5L . I have not driven it with the new engine but it was pretty scary with the last one! http://bajaclub.co.uk/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=931 (http://bajaclub.co.uk/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=931) it starts a few pages in.

The aim of this exercise is not about power or speed, not your heavy Rover V8, the thirsty Mazda RX7, the old Lancia Twin Cam, the Mortgage requiring Corvair, but more about finding a modern solution. This is where the Subaru really comes into its own, as it uses a water cooled flat four engine, with pretty much the same one used over its entire model range, meaning that there is a plentiful supply. The conversion is certainly not straightforward though, nor for the faint hearted, and there are some serious negatives that must be considered before you hit eBay looking for some bits.

Negatives:

Well the most obvious one is the radiator. There are no more modern air cooled engines around, so any engine swaps you are looking at are going to involve finding a location for a radiator and the associated plumbing that goes with it. On a positive note though, you will also end up with a heater.

The engine is a very compact flat four, but as you can see from this picture, the sump underneath hangs down a very long way. Its not just a matter of chopping the lower 3 inches out either, as that can reduce the oil capacity by a significant amount. There are companies that will provide a modified sump and internal oil pick up, but these are not cheap and something that needs to be researched and factored in to your costs.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0001.jpg)

You will also need to have a bespoke exhaust made. This probably isn`t that much of an issue for us though, as most of us have already ditched the stuff available off the shelf, and have opted for bespoke systems from the likes of Beelzedub anyway.

The wiring is probably the bit that is commented about most. Everything, and I really do mean everything on the Subaru is controlled by a central Engine Control Unit (ECU) and this little box of tricks can have in excess of 100 wires going to it. The engine is quite complex with various crank and cam sensors, so it is no surprise to find that most of the wires will be used. If you source an engine on its own, then make sure that you also grab the ECU and all of the associated wiring looms. There are companies out there that will take your own loom, chop out everything that is not needed,and send you back a plug and play loom like this for around £400. I do have a few issues with this loom though, and that will become clear as the project moves forwards.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0002.jpg)


And finally, you will need to find a way to attach it all to the VW Gearbox and make it work. This will entail some form of adaptor plate, a modified flywheel and a heavy duty clutch system. All of which are readily available (mostly from the USA) but there are still a few pitfalls to watch out for.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0003.jpg)


From what I have read, the total conversion cost (excluding labour) can be done for under 2 grand. Not sure how accurate that is, but I guess we will soon find out in the months to come.


Positives:

OK, so why would we consider it then?

The Subaru engines are very reliable, and have a good supply of spares that are readily available. They are significantly more powerful than the air cooled engines and will return a far higher MPG thanks to modern technology. There are a few added bonuses too, such as the ability to have a heater and an alternator as standard. They rev a lot higher than the old air cooled motors do too. Imagine the extra performance and speeds you could have if your engine went up to 6500rpm instead of topping out at 4500rpm?

And whilst £2K is by no means a cheap solution, you wouldn`t actually get that much for your pound if throwing it at an air cooled lump, so in some ways it could actually be seen as good value for money and a viable proposition.

Have you see the http://www.rjes.com/ bell housing solution for the engine/gearbox mating. Also lots of useful information on there too

Quote from: fugglededumm on May 03, 2017, 09:23:31 PM
Have you see the http://www.rjes.com/ bell housing solution for the engine/gearbox mating. Also lots of useful information on there too

There is indeed some brilliant info on their site and I have spoken to Rich at RJES a fair number of times, but they only really cater for Bus gearbox bell housing conversions, (which is the same as Andy has in the General) but unable to provide a solution for a Subaru on a Type1 Beetle box. That will have to be done with an adaptor plate sourced elsewhere.

Dave, loving your thread, something I've considered for a long time but not had the balls. There's a guy our way with a 3.3l which goes like stink in a camper😍
Why not go all the way, buggy 😘

For my own project, I have decided to use the Subaru Impreza GX on the basis that it will have the added ECU mapping and performance of the Chavtastic Impreza Saloon, but being the "unfashionable Old Man's estate" version, may not have been thrashed quite so much.

I don`t want to be messing about repairing anything for this experiment, so it was important that I started out with something good. I located a 52 plate Impreza GX AWD with the more desirable engine known as the EJ20 2.0 SOHC that was for sale with a full service history, a years MOT and a mere 100K miles on the clock for just £600. It is a lot more than you need to pay for a donor, but the 200 mile drive home confirmed that everything including the 4 wheel drive gearboxes worked brilliantly (and could therefore be sold for parts) and most importantly, demonstrated that the engine was silky smooth and very responsive.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0004.jpg)


Opening the bonnet reveals a flat four that looks very scary because of the number of pipes and tubes everywhere. Once the power steering and air con is removed, I`m hoping that a fair chunk of plumbing will also follow. One of the other reasons that I chose this engine is because it has a standard cable operated throttle. The later ones have motors operated by sensors on the gas pedal. They can still be used, but its a lot more work.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0005.jpg)


So over the next few months, I will bore you all senseless as I start to rip this apart and see what all the fuss is about

8)

Watching this thread with keen interest Dave.

Dave, keenly watching your outcome. As always, from you the start of a brilliant and well thought out thread, packed with useful info . Best of luck. Save the steering wheel
🤑
Paul

The project is under way and cheaper than an aircooled engine alone, now chop the body off the pan and fit the buggy body.

This will be a long interesting thread.

Dave, might be worthwhile either talking or just browsing this company- have been advertising for a while in Volksworld- someone must know something about them. Anyway parts may be available from them. ;-)up

http://www.tsrengineconversions.co.uk/contact.htm

Quote from: snoopy on May 04, 2017, 07:51:16 AM
now chop the body off the pan and fit the buggy body.

I`m currently 2 weeks into my evening course for welding, and it has certainly crossed my mind more than once to practice my skills on the shell

:D

Can't wait to c how this build goes Dave 😀👍

Before I start ripping bits off the engine though, I want to take a closer look at the complex wiring and see exactly what we are dealing with here. Like most modern cars, Subaru have also inconsiderately covered everything up very nicely with lots of plastics and dash panels. Hanging from the Ignition key is also an indication that we will have some serious security issues to overcome in the form of a high end alarm and immobilizer.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0006.jpg)


WARNING
Before you attack any modern car, just have a quick look about and determine what it has in the way of Supplementary Restraint Systems (S.R.S.). Look for Airbags especially. Steering wheel centre and passenger dash board ones are usually obvious, but also look for seat bolsters and side curtains on the A-Post and B-Posts. Anything fitted will always have an AIRBAG symbol as a warning, and seats will have a badge sewn on to the sides. Look carefully at seat belt mechanisms, as they can often have explosive charges fitted to pull the belts tight in the event of a crash - they look like thin cylinders running down the sides of the chairs. They usually catch people out, and can take your fingers off if you are a bit rough in removing the seats. Next time you open the door of your daily driver, have a quick nose about and see how many you can spot. Always disconnect the battery before messing with Airbags and always have a cuppa before you disconnect anything, as it allows the system to fully discharge (20 mins) once the battery has been disconnected.

A quick look around tells me that this particular vehicle has an airbag in the middle of the steering wheel and one on the top of the passenger side dash. The seats are clear of anything, but there are explosive charges wrapped around the front seat belt mechanisms located within the B-post. Although I cannot see it yet, I expect there will be an Airbag Control Module somewhere near the tunnel and some impact crash sensors located somewhere behind the front bumper or corners of the wings.

Obviously I am not going to be hanging upside down in the foot wells here, so I have disconnected the battery, had a cuppa, and then set about removing the seats and dashboard so that I can locate this troublesome ECU and all of its wiring. A top tip here is to plug everything back in afterwards to check that it all still works, and then you can set about removing one circuit at a time. With so much being controlled by the ECU, you really do not want to start cutting wires just yet.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0007.jpg)


Lets get the dangerous bit out of the way and deal with these airbags then. This is the bit that scares many people, but as long as you follow some simple rules, and treat them with respect, you needn`t worry. First some do`s and don`ts. Airbag wiring in cars is very easily identified as it will always have a yellow sleeve and yellow connectors on anything dangerous. Look at the picture above and you will see the yellow wires from the passenger airbag all the way down to the control module with a big yellow sticker on top of the tunnel - right where I suspected it would be. NEVER unplug any wiring with the battery connected, and NEVER go near the wiring with a multimeter. So, disconnect battery and sit back for 20 minutes whilst waiting for the system to discharge itself. Once that has been done, simply unplug the airbags, sensors and remove the control module. These are all worth good money too, so remove them and put to one side. On that note, you MUST store these items with the bag side facing upwards, so if they do go off, it will just deploy as normal with a loud bang. If they are stored bag side down, they will literally take off like a rocket and will cause serious damage and injury. You can now trace and remove all yellow wiring, its not needed.

I can hear you all screaming "Holy F . . . " at this point along with the thud of your jaws hitting the floor, but to be honest, I`m in my element here as this bit really doesn`t phase me at all. The next step is to make it all look really scary by removing all the insulation tape holing the wiring loom together so that we can separate out the wires and start working out what we need and what we can simplify.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0008.jpg)


I have now reconnected the battery so that I can start the engine and hope that everything still works, which it does. With the safety systems now dealt with, its now time to focus on the security systems and make life a lot easier by removing them also.

All cars produced after 1996 must have an immobiliser fitted. Usually this is down to a small chip built into the key, and we shall deal with that one later, but for now, I am ripping out the Subaru Thatcham Category 1 Alarm and extra immobiliser system that was also fitted as an upgrade. I don`t want to go into too much detail of how to remove it on a public forum, but to give you a heads up, its a Sigma M30, a brilliant system in its day and the wiring is fairly easy to trace if you have got to this stage. If you do encounter problems though, please let me know as I was actually trained by Sigma and have the full schematics for this system. What I would suggest though is to have a large bucket of water handy. The siren has a back up battery inside it, and if the alarm wiring is tampered with or wires cut in the wrong sequence, it will cause the siren to go off, and when it does, there is nothing to stop it. So, remove the bolts holding it in place, unplug the wiring quickly and throw it in the bucket of water where it will silently burble away to itself for the next few days.

The main ECU that we are looking for is pretty well hidden, and its not until you remove the foot plate on the passenger side that its location is finally revealed.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0009.jpg)


Now that everything is visible, we can start to mess about in removing unwanted items and circuits. Things like windscreen wiper motors and washer bottles are not connected to the ECU, along with the stereo and fog lights. These parts can be removed and sold, and the fewer wires we are left with, the easier it is to work out what we are doing.

There's an awful lot wires there Dave. Just as a really really alternative engine conversion had you considered going old school carbs and distributor

Quote from: Merscury on May 05, 2017, 03:27:27 PM
There's an awful lot wires there Dave. Just as a really really alternative engine conversion had you considered going old school carbs and distributor

The Subaru engine does not have a distributor, and there seems little point in going to the expense of trying to fit an aftermarket ignition system when all of the sensors and ecu are already there. The electrics won`t look as bad as this when I have finished. Carbs is a good call though, but again, a set of carbs and a bespoke manifold are going to hit four figures very quickly - and again, you have a modern fuel injection system here that was actually built with economy and performance in mind. Might as well use it?

Trying hard not to look at Old Skool here, and trying to look forwards instead   ;)

Quite understand Dave.  It was just a thought, with your new found welding skills for the manifold and the distributor they use for the conversion is off a lowly Ford Escort.

Quote from: Merscury on May 05, 2017, 04:57:44 PM
the distributor they use for the conversion is off a lowly Ford Escort.

Really?  Not come across that one  ???

Quote from: Dave DND on May 05, 2017, 05:02:53 PM

Quote from: Merscury on May 05, 2017, 04:57:44 PM
the distributor they use for the conversion is off a lowly Ford Escort.

Really?  Not come across that one  ???

Yes I think it's a an 81-87 Escort, I believe it's a favourite with the home build aeroplane boys in the states.

Quote from: Merscury on May 05, 2017, 06:04:29 PM
Yes I think it's a an 81-87 Escort, I believe it's a favourite with the home build aeroplane boys in the states.

Yes, I`ve heard of those distributors in planes before, just not scooby`s

Trouble is, its now a 30+ year old bit of kit that may be scarce or wearing out - might as well stick with a 009 on that basis  :-\

Here is what I am hoping to achieve:

The wiring is also a major part of this conversion that scares people - and with very good reason as there is an awful lot of it. There is precious little on the Interweb about the wiring that you need to retain, and the technical stuff is fiercely guarded by those doing the conversions at £400 a pop plus your own loom.

Now here is the thing. I have seen and studied many of these so called loom conversions, and I have alarm bells ringing in my head as I simply do not agree with the way most of them have been done. They have all been stripped back to the bare minimum which is ludicrous really. The Subaru engine is crammed with sensors and yet none of the conversion looms make it easy for you to add extra gauges and dials should you want to. Its all there to be used, yet everyone has chopped most of the wires off. I will deal with each problem in turn rather than just list them all here, but suffice to say that some of the wiring conversions are actually compromising the engine performance rather than making the most of it.

My ultimate plan is to produce a diagram or list showing exactly which wires are required for everything to function and be sufficient for you to make your own conversion in such a way that you can easily splice it into an existing standard Beetle ignition & starter switch with an extra supply feed to the battery for the ECU functionality. That side of it I want to simplify, but I also want to make sure that we can also add extra dials and gauges too.

Its going to be a tough call to do this, and there is every possibility that I could be wrong - But it will be interesting to see how far I can get

Dave, loving this post. We're lucky to have someone with your background to suss out the potential electrical pitfalls. Could well be the future ;-)up.
Are you letting  the ex engine god anywhere near the engine ;D

Paul

Really interesting this. I wish I had the space to be able to tinker* and dismantle a car like this.
* - tinker was the best term I could come up with. Not meaning to belittle your task

As for the airbags, you could buy a donor which had been hit on all sides and rolled. That would sort 'em.  Save any nasty surprises. :D

If you hear ticking and see Dave running get on yer toes and try and overtake !!  ;D ;D

Time to start getting technical then. The ECU that I am playing with is this one, and it controls just about everything.   :o

3H 
22611 AF634
A18-000 D8U 1Y26

It has Blue, Red and Green Colour coded plugs with a lot of wires to contend with.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0010.jpg)


I have relocated this ECU to where the top of dash would be so that everything is accessible and I can start messing about with the wiring in an attempt to understand it all. As I work through this mess with a pair of cutters, I will make a note of any modifications made and add them to this list as I go along so that eventually we will have a full updated list of what is and isn`t required for the conversion into our Buggies.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/ecupinout.bmp)


Hopefully when I have finished, this list should be fully populated.   ;-)up

Respect Dave, that's  an awful lot of time an effort you are putting into thi project

Quote from: pepsi81 on May 11, 2017, 09:41:57 AM
Respect Dave, that's  an awful lot of time an effort you are putting into thi project

Well I need something to tinker with now Farmer Rob has banned me from messing with my own engine again  :-[

At least you are still speaking after yellowgate  ;D

Yellowgate  ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: Zip Buggy on May 11, 2017, 12:29:07 PM
Yellowgate  ;D ;D ;D

;D ;D ;D ;D

Quote from: pepsi81 on May 11, 2017, 12:26:52 PM

At least you are still speaking after yellowgate  ;D

I didn't know he'd painted is gate yellow as well! This is getting out of hand now! ::)

Think he had plenty of 'hands' helping him  ;D

I wonder if the president will now fire the head of the FBI (Farmerrob Builds Ingines)?


...... I'll get me coat  ::)

 :-\

So, getting this thread back on track  ;)

As I think I have mentioned, I am having a serious issue with some of the so called professionally converted looms out there, and one of the issues I will now address as it means I can lose a few wires.

The ECU controls everything, and by that I really do mean everything. The blower motor in the cabin is controlled by an ECU wire and there are several inputs and outputs that are also connected to the Air Conditioning system too. Now I know what you are thinking, a blower motor can just use a 12v supply and the air con is going to be lost anyway - but hang on a minute.

The ECU carefully monitors all of the temperatures and settings to ensure the most efficient means of running, and it even controls the outputs to the radiator fans. Its an over complex system, and to be honest a simple thermostatic switch would work just as well.

So, why am I having problems with the looms then?

The Subaru, like many modern cars, has two cooling fans. They name them as a Main fan and a Sub fan, even though they are identical in size. The theory is that one fan will come on at a certain temperature, and under other certain conditions, then sub one will then kick in for extra cooling. Sounds straight forward so far and most of these converted looms have ecu wiring and relays included to power both fans independently.

Except, that the secondary sub fan only comes into play when the Air Conditioning is running at full tilt to give extra cooling to the secondary radiator that is part of the air con system, it has little to do with the normal temperature of the water system. But if we have removed the air con system wiring from the ECU, then that sub fan system is never going to function at all - unless the ecu is tricked into thinking that the air con is indeed fitted and running the twin fans.

And this is the problem. If you trick the ECU into thinking that the air con is installed and running by grounding the signal on B136/Pin30 in order to make that second fan work, what people do not realize is that it also remaps the ecu characteristics to take into account of the extra engine loads involved by running the air con compressors. You have spent all that effort in getting the best performance out of a Subaru engine, only to restrict it by limiting the software and ignition parameters. So many conversions seem to have gone down this route and it is just wrong.

Far better to have no air con fitted, ditch the secondary fan output, run two great big cooling fans on the single output (or a separate thermostatically switched circuit) - and that will leave you to run the ECU at its optimum performance settings. As a bonus, you can also lose another bunch of wires.

On that note, my ecu diagram has now had an update.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/ecupinout.bmp)

Good work Sherlock. I can't see what the update is on the diagram though?

Dave, you are doing a hell of a job  ;-)up often wondered about the ecu wiring requirement,put me off. Keep up your fab efforts .
Thanks, Paul

Quote from: Zip Buggy on May 11, 2017, 11:29:59 PM
I can't see what the update is on the diagram though?

Stuff is starting to appear - diagram was initially blank.

I`m updating the diagrams globally to make sure they are easy to find in the future, and its not a case of anyone in years to come finding one of the early incomplete ones, they will only ever see how far I have got.

Dave I think the image is proxy cached.  If you change the link to include something like ?v=1 then ?v=2  then that will force a refresh for the updates

Quote from: Roadrunner on May 12, 2017, 09:06:45 AM
Dave I think the image is proxy cached.  If you change the link to include something like ?v=1 then ?v=2  then that will force a refresh for the updates

It may well be cached at a local level and if you refresh your own browser you should see the changes. I can see the updates immediately they are loaded, and the latest list will show some lines as populated with "NOT REQUIRED" or similar. You can always refresh your browser by hitting F5 a few times too. Didn`t want to physically change the link, as it preforms a global update to the other places it appears too (which seems to be working here)

With the the Air Conditioning electrics now removed, it seemed a good idea to de-clutter the engine bay a little by physically removing the Air Con system in its entirety. If you compare the pictures of before and after, looking at the alternator in the center, you will see that I have removed the compressor, brackets, drive belts with adjusters to the right and also the pipework that comes from the front of the radiator right along the right hand side and along the firewall at the rear. It still looks pretty complicated in there, but that's a huge chunk of bits that have now been replaced by space.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0005.jpg)

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0011.jpg)


Another note of caution here:
The Air Con system is pressurized with some nasty liquid gas that is harmful to the environment. What you are supposed to do is to go to your nearest air con specialist to have the system discharged before messing about. What you are not supposed to do is crack open one of the joints until you hear it hissing and go for a cuppa.
:-X

I have also removed the air con and entire heater unit from inside the car to give me a clearer view of what is going on, but I have refitted the original heater matrix so that the water cooling system is left in its standard state for the time being with everything being plumbed in as it should be. I`ll tackle the cooling issues at a much later date.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0012.jpg)


More good bits removed for ebay in order to fund the project   ;-)up

In order to be able to connect this rats nest of wires to the Beetle, it makes sense to think about what the guys from VW gave us to play with and try and recreate it in here.

The Original VW wiring could not be more simple. We have a permanent feed from the battery, we have a switched ignition feed that comes from turning the key, and if you turn the key a little further, you get another switched feed for the starter motor. That is really easy to recreate with a little panel.

So this is my Beetle - my intended vehicle. I have a permanent feed going to the left side of a fuse box, I have a big red FIA key that is going to pretend to be my VW ignition switch (I`m using this so I can also remove it for security) and this will give me a simple ON/OFF supply to the right hand side of the fuse box, and to replicate the second position of the ignition key, I am going to use a simple push button, which will also go through the fuse box just so we can see how its all connected.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0013.jpg)


This panel is completely independent of the Subaru wiring, and is simply fed via a circuit breaker directly from the battery.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0014.jpg)


Mounted in the middle of the dash, the challenge is now to be able to run everything via this panel, and when I have managed this, the loom will then be ready to tidy up and install into another vehicle with ease.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0015.jpg)


Starting to think the £300 loom conversion charge was a good idea   ::)

Dave,

Still think you are a god of green(not yellow; Rob), with the patience of a saint. :P

Paul

Anyone who has looked through the Subaru wiring diagrams will have understandably noticed that a great deal of security has been added around the starting systems in the form of interlock relays and immobilizer modules for obvious reasons. However, we are not actually transferring any of this tech over, so we can pretty much ignore most of it and junk the lot. VW gave us a simple starter wire from the ignition key directly to the starter motor solenoid and as we will be retaining the Beetle starter, its important to recreate the same setup on here. I have therefore joined a heavy wire from the starter solenoid to my push button, and when I press it, the engine turns over - simple.

We are playing with a lot of electrics here though, so whilst 99% of the relays can be ignored, we still need to supply a signal to the ECU to let it know that the engine is cranking and the easiest way to do this is by means of a White/Black wire from the Beetle starter solenoid to B135 Pin28 on the ECU.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/ecupinout.bmp)

Bosch and VW kept it simple on the 411LE a ignition wire into the injection control unit, a rpm sensor at the flywheel, temperature switch that also worked the excess fuel cold start and the accelerator butterfly things have progressed to nightmare wiring in the last 40 plus years..

Quote from: snoopy on May 22, 2017, 08:45:58 AM
things have progressed to nightmare wiring in the last 40 plus years..

I know what you mean Keith - when (and why) did cars become so complicated? Believe it or not, there are still more wires to be found, and the main power loom from the engine fuse box to the cabin actually runs inside the inner wheel arch. Not the easiest of looms to strip out, but I want to make sure that everything is visible before chopping too much about.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0016.jpg)


Most of the wiring from the engine is via a number of plugs on the drivers side, and the access to the rear bulkhead is a right PITA to get at from both the cabin or the engine bay. The size of the Air Filter inlet and resonator box cannot be understated, it is absolutely huge, and removing this gives me a lot of room to play with at the back. You can also get a better idea of just how short the engine block is here too.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0017.jpg)


Removal of the air box does mean that there are now some rubber pipes to contend with. There is a 13mm breather pipe from each of the rocker covers, similar to what we sometimes fit on the Bugs, and a 13mm pipe from the top of the inlet manifold. because I want to maintain the original setup at the moment, I will get some short bits of hose and a few connectors so that they can be joined together and fed back into a 70mm aftermarket air filter.

The majority of the wiring loom to the engine connects via a series of plugs that can be found just to the rear of the block on the drivers side. Subaru also seem to have colour coded these too, which does make things a little easier to work out what is going where.

There is a 16 pin brown plug down the back of the engine that Subaru call B22 and most of the wires go back to the main ECU.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0018.jpg)

For the time being, I am not concerned about going into too much detail about how the various sensors work etc, (we can delve into that at a much later date), but for the moment I am only looking to map the wiring out from A to B so that I can get the loom to work independently.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/enginepinoutB22.bmp)

Main ECU Pinout diagram also updated

I had a bit of a diversion today as some of my ChineBay goodies arrived.

Now this is another one of my "Pro-Loom Annoyances" and its to do with a Rev Counter / Tacho / Call it what you will.

Some may view them as a bit of nonsense, some minimalists may hate them, but personally I like them, so splashed out a whopping £8 (including postage) to upgrade my new Dashboard. My annoyance is that the tacho feed wire is usually chopped off by the conversion companies and you are seldom given the easy option to retro fit an aftermarket one. To me this is just madness especially as there is a wire coming out of the ECU that we can use, (or ignore if you so wish) - but at least you should be given the option by retaining the wire.

Wiring in an aftermarket tacho is easy and only takes three wires. A fused ignition live and an earth will take care of the power, and on a Buggy, we would connect the sensor wire to the coil negative. However, the Subaru does not have a conventional ignition system, but what we do have is an Orange / White cable coming out of the ECU on B134 Pin 30 - Connect your sensor wire to this and the tacho will work.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0019.jpg)


I know that an £8 rev counter sounds cheap, and there is a reason for this. It looks nice in its standard guise, it actually performs pretty well and if it lasts until the end of this project I will be very surprised. However, when you switch it on, there is a tacky blue backlight from an internal bulb that has been so badly placed behind the mechanism that it casts a terrible shadow across the face at night. Serves a purpose for now though.

Trying to remember where I left off, as its been a while. I have now finished mapping out the B22 plug and that list should now be fully populated

One of the other wires that is often not connected is the Green/Yellow wire that goes to ECU B135 B24. Most doing this conversion retain the original VW speedo and do not see the need to add this wire. Again, you are missing out on some valuable power here. Give or take, a standard VW lump will red line at around 4500 revs per minute. If the Subaru ECU thinks that it is stationary and not moving, then after 30 minutes, many of them go into a "Limp Mode" allowing you to continue to your destination albeit under restricted power and performance. Some modern cars are really hard to drive in limp mode, but the Subaru will simply limit you to around 4000 Revs with full accelleration. You can understand that with this figure being close to what the VW lump gave, that with your foot flat to the floor, you may not actually realize anything is wrong. With a speed pulse taken from a small unit strapped to the speedo cable or magnetic pick ups on the rear wheels, adding that wire will allow you over 6000 revs with no problems whatsoever.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/ecupinout.bmp)

This maybe of interest, seems rancho are now doing rear engine conversions for Subaru gearboxes.

http://ranchotransaxles.com/rancho-subaru-5-speed-conversion-for-type-1-2-and-vanagon/ (http://ranchotransaxles.com/rancho-subaru-5-speed-conversion-for-type-1-2-and-vanagon/)

Seem to recall that their Subaru boxes were megabucks, about $4k (before importing)

I`m actually using a 1600 Type 1 Rancho box (extra strength) that I picked up from Heritage

Classic Car Rescue did a subaru conversion with the orginal VW box left in and then hardened the hubs/drums for the extra horsepower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTt2sYR1Xss

Nowt wrong with a Corvair. You can build one for bigish Type 1 engine money really. You'll need a mortgage for fuel though, ideally mates in the shipping industry and a while heap of bloody luck to find another engine in this country....

And that's the issue with these really. Rarity. Whilst a very different (but bloody great) way to go to power a buggy, having to ship EVERYTHING from the states soon becomes a chore. I just buy several.of everything I need at once now. Several.spare oil filters, air filters, fan belts etc in the garage shelf now.

Dave,was talking,sorry getting talked at,at Bristol volksfest about a scuby conversion. Red 9 design have done a few. Use the vw box on their van for over 10 years. Also they know a guy that sorts the looms out for you for not much £££££. Give them a ring,they can chew your ear off then ! ;-)up

good project

there are 4 VW Beetles in VWDRC that run the Subaru conversion if you need any help .

Loads of conversion information here -

  http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/SubaruVanagonGen.aspx

i've just ordered my Rotary Conversion kit from them .

another option for transplanting a subaru lump being used by some people. fuel by carburettor(s) and ignition by distributor. it seems a ford escort (cvh?) distributor is fairly easy to adapt to fit into the back of one cylinder head driven from the camshaft.
ttfn glenn

Quote from: 93fxdl on September 15, 2017, 06:58:30 PM
another option for transplanting a subaru lump being used by some people. fuel by carburettor(s) and ignition by distributor. it seems a ford escort (cvh?) distributor is fairly easy to adapt to fit into the back of one cylinder head driven from the camshaft.
ttfn glenn

I have heard of that one and may investigate it further in due course, but I think I will try to use the existing fuel injection setup and ECU first as its included with my donor at no extra cost

;)

F... knows what this does to the historical vehicle status  ;D

Quote from: pepsi81 on September 15, 2017, 09:20:23 PM
F... knows what this does to the historical vehicle status  ;D

Show me where it is written what engine should be in a 1966 Vehicle called a VW Convertible then ?   :P

Apologies to those who were initially following this thread - I got a bit sidetracked looking after Lisa last summer, and didn`t manage to spend much time on this project. But that's not to say that I have not been sat twiddling my thumbs though. I have been slowly pulling bits off the car and listing them on eBay to sell, and this is how the donor car currently stands.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0020.jpg)

There is no interior at all, and I mean nothing - but the car will start and I can still move it around my yard under its own steam - cannot see out of the windows when sitting on the floor, but hey ho.

It has however, proved to be an interesting challenge, and today a major milestone was reached. I have just broken even financially with the bits sold so far (£605) - everything else is now profit. That means that I now have a Subaru engine for free, and enough parts left on the car to hopefully pay for the rest of the conversion.

Like your thinking Dave. Looking forward to more updates  ;-)up

During the summer of last year, I enrolled on a local college course and finally learned to weld. I can really recommend searching out such a course and kick myself for taking so long to do it. The parting words of my teacher was "Practice Practice Practice" and it got me thinking about my Subaru Project. I am far from even thinking about transplanting anything into a Buggy just yet, so thought about rigging up a test bed that I could build everything up on to see if and how well it all runs.

After a trip to the local metal factors, and an afternoon of mischief in the garage, my test bed had started to take shape.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0021.jpg)

Using a spare T25 lump I had as a template, the engine was mounted at the same height as it would be in my Buggy, and the frame is not only wide enough to be stable whilst the eventual engine is running, but is also the same width as the rear cage on my Buggy, so I have some realistic parameters and mounting points to work with. I can attach some speed sensors to the gearbox to simulate motion and there is enough space for me to fabricate radiators, exhausts and petrol tanks over the coming months and decades.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0022.jpg)

Lisa decided that it needed a lick of paint, and who was I to stop her. It was really great to have her back in the garage again getting her hands dirty.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0023.jpg)

And this evening I bolted on a gearbox, ready to receive a new engine.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0024.jpg)

There are still a lot of electrical investigations to complete before I can think about ripping the engine out, but at least I now have somewhere to put it when I do.

A neat job it should make life easier.

That's the DBs Dave. Looking forward to reading the next bits.

Nice job Dave  ;-)up

Please can we have some more :D

Quote from: pepsi81 on April 19, 2018, 02:49:19 PM

Please can we have some more :D

Sure thing Oliver !

More to follow soon  - Just trying to work out what this yellow thing in the sky is at the moment 

(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Cool%20Sunbathe.gif)

Thank you sir. We had the same yellow thing this morning. It's fine now, back to grey and overcast. The rain won't be long coming  bleugh

Managed to get a spare hour on the Subaru and mapped out the wiring of the 2 Oxygen Sensors to the ECU, ticking off another few wires on the list. These sensors are the ones that monitor and control the fuel side of things - more about their workings later.

The plan will be to make full use of the Oxy sensors and include some form of catalytic convertor on my build. If we are to look to the future, then any alternative engine setups we use are going to have to also be emission friendly and IVA Compliant, and that probably means getting to grips with Fuel Injection too. Its all here with the Scooby setup - just have to figure how to make it work properly for us.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/ecupinout.bmp)

Time to start de-cluttering the engine bay of other stuff that is not needed for my conversion.

When I was researching the vast number of different Subaru engines on the net, there is a lot of talk about overheating and the later models that are also suffering from head gasket failure as a result. I have been having a thought about this one, and whilst this may not be a conclusive explanation, its certainly worth bearing in mind. Most people are opting for the much later higher performance engines (including the Turbo) and most of the bad experiences and reports seem to be coming from these conversions as a result.

From what I can gather, the Subaru Cabin Heater Matrix can suffer from blockages with little or no heat coming out. If you simply top up the engine coolant with tap water instead of the correct grade of anti-freeze & summer coolant, then you can often cause the internals of the engine to corrode and form a sludge that builds up and will block heaters and radiators. That's something we pretty much all know about. The thing is, on a conventional car, if the heater packs up, its a mild irritation - but on a Subaru, it can be Catastrophic.

Unlike a conventional car, the Cabin Heater Matrix forms part of the Engine Cooling system and is operated at all times at full flow and full heat. The more power the engine has, then the more critical the flow through the heater matrix can be, so if you have any restrictions whatsoever within the pipework, then engine cooling will be seriously compromised - often with dire consequences. One of the tests I would do if purchasing a Subaru is to test how fast the cabin heater gets up to temperature - if it doesn`t blow hot air almost instantly, then walk away - Cool air comes from ducting, not from cool water in the heater system and cold air here means the engine may have been overheating at some point.

At the rear of the engine, are two 15mm heater pipes - and they go straight to the heater matrix on the other side of the bulkhead.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0025.jpg)


Most of the conversion overheating stories I have been reading about are from those either trying to integrate this engine into an existing Watercooled T25 or into a Beetle using an aftermarket heater box. Its so easy to see where their problems are arising from, because people are simply looking at two pipes, one in and one return, with nothing more than a heater matrix on the other end.

WRONG !!

The T25 heater system, and 99.9% of the aftermarket heating systems all have an inline valve to control the temperature, effectively like turning a hot water tap on and off. Now think about what I just said about the heater matrix running at full flow and full heat, then the penny should drop that any such valve will be seen as a major restriction to the flow, and therefore water cannot pass from the cooling system to the cylinder heads.

Result = Overheating.

If you want to incorporate a heater as part of your conversion, then what you need to do is to add a short pipe that connects these two heater pipes together, allowing water to pass from one to the other when your heater valve is turned off. Its that simple and would take nothing more than a couple of "T" Pieces and jubilee clips to fabricate some sort of "H" shape.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0026.jpg)


At the moment, I am just trying to remove as much as possible whilst still keeping the engine running, so a quick and easy solution for a full flow bypass of the heater matrix can be done with nothing more than a short length of Silicone hose.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0027.jpg)


I may or may not add a heater to this, I`m really unsure at the moment, but if and when I do, I will definitely leave some form of bypass in place.

As said, I am not sure if this is where some of the stories are coming from, but from what I have seen so far, it certainly is a quick way to cook a cylinder head, so there may be some truths to it.

many modern vehicles use a constant full flow heater with solenoid operated air flaps for the hot/cold selection as it is more controllable. The buggy will be better compared to vans and beetles as your pipe run is shorter and circulation will be better.
I have considered moving my heater to under the rear seat and ducting the air to the front as in cold weather the air flow around the engine means it gets nowhere near the thermostat opening with full running temp reached but 33 years on nothing has changed.

Quote from: snoopy on May 14, 2018, 09:38:51 PM
many modern vehicles use a constant full flow heater with solenoid operated air flaps for the hot/cold selection as it is more controllable.

Didn`t know that - might mean a better selection of heater boxes then should I go down that route in the future

Another big chunk removed today was the power steering pump - You can see the empty cradle just to the left of the alternator.

Frustratingly difficult to get access too. The front two bolts were easy to spot through the holes in the rotor wheel, but the long bolt at the base was a nightmare to get to, so ended up removing the cradle in the end and unbolting the pump on the bench rather than in situ. Pump gave me another quick £50 to the coffers via eBay too, which was a nice result.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0028.jpg)


It does leave me with a problem though, and that is I have now lost my alternator belt. I will order a short one up for the time being, but I`m not even sure that the alternator will remain in this position yet. I have a feeling that the air intake and throttle body pointing towards the rear of the engine may foul the rear bulkhead of the Buggy, but I have read somewhere that the inlet manifold can be spun 180 degrees and the alternator relocated.

Something else to play with when the engine is out then, because that radiator hose is also pointing in the wrong direction too  ;)

I`m going to give a mention about removing a Vacuum hose here, as it nearly caught me out. The pipe in question is the one that goes from the inlet manifold to the Brake Servo, and it provides the necessary internal vacuum that allows the brakes to work more efficiently as the pedal is pressed.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0029.jpg)


Something you will notice when working on this car is the unusual sizes of the nuts and bolts. Most vehicles are tackled with 10/13/17/19mm spanners, but everything on this is slightly smaller. Where you would expect to wield a 13mm spanner, you will be reaching for a 12mm one - What should be a 17mm will be a 15mm - get the idea? Everything is metric, there are a selection of thread sizes, and there are just as many conspiracy theories behind this. Some say that the reduction is a weight saving exercise resulting in more performance, whilst others maintain a considerable productions savings to be made in raw materials. The Jury is out on this one. Anyway, with the hose pulled, we are left with an open hole that needs to be plugged.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0030.jpg)


And this is where I nearly got caught out. The stub that unscrewed looked like a 10mm bolt with a really fine thread, in fact it resembled an M10 x 1.0 which is an extra fine. However, it is not. It is actually a 1/8" BSP Tapered Thread, which any old skool engineer will tell you has little place on a modern Japanese Car, but thats what it is. Had I wound an M10 in there (and yes, it would have felt tight) it would have stripped the thread of the manifold which would be quite expensive to replace. 1/8" BSP Taper plugs are commonplace in pneumatics, so finding a blanking plug was relatively easy.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0031.jpg)


If you are one of those that likes a thousand and one panic dials on the dash, then this would be a great location to put a sender for one of those Vacuum gauges with the needle that swings from red to green indicating fuel economy. I just wanted it blanked off.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0032.jpg)


You are probably throwing all of these pipes and hoses in a pile, not knowing what will be required at a later date - well pay particular attention to the Vacuum hose that you have just removed because it also has a one way vale inside that is almost impossible to identify externally. This may cause issues in the future should you inadvertently tried to fit in anywhere that you expected fluid to flow.

Really enjoying this Dave. Looking forward to the next instalment.

My aftermarket oil filler neck had an odd thread on the takeoff, think it was BSP. A plug used on gas fittings was the right fit

Really enjoying this write up Dave

Unusual to have manifold operated vacum I thought most vehicles had swapped to vacum pumps with the emissions and need for economy before the 52 plate. Makes life easier for you though and you could servo your rear brakes to up the efficiency and help control front lock up.

By now, most of you will know how easy it is to drop an engine block out of the back of a Buggy, and for those of you who don`t, then it is only held in by four bolts. Undo those four bolts and the engine slides out. It really is as easy as it sounds. So, how do we make our Subaru engine physically fit then, especially given that it is held in place with six bolts and they are in different places?

We use what is called an adaptor plate. It is a thick metal plate with 10 holes - six of which bolt to the Subaru lump, and the remaining four allow it to bolt to the VW Gearbox. Most of the adaptor plates will come as a kit with a modified flywheel (we will cover that one later) and this is where you are going to be spending a rather large chuck of money. Most kits will come in at around the £500 ~ £600 mark, but that doesn't include shipping or any import duties which have to be carefully considered if bringing one in from the States, as a final bill for around £900 is not uncommon if going down that route.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0003.jpg)


Whilst shopping around for the best prices, you will also come across a variety of different plates too. Most of them however fall into two types that are fairly easy to identify. One of the plates has very "Rounded" sides and is often known as the "German" or "Euro" one as I guess that someone over there is banging them out. The picture above shows the German one. The other style is called the "Kennedy" plate, as it comes from a Company in the States called, yep, your guessed it, Kennedy. If you compare the above picture to the Kennedy plate below, you will see the obvious difference in shape.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0033.jpg)


Your research will also have probably thrown up a few forums and chat rooms full of people having problems with both of these plates. More people seem to complain about the German one than the Kennedy one, but I think that's because there are more German ones in circulation due to the costs, so the percentage of people moaning about them is going to be higher. They do all seem to have issues with the same thing though - Bent or damaged studs.

Now studs just don`t bend on their own and a lot of the early posts seem to be regarding studs that were already fitted to the plates prior to shipping and were bent in transit due to the very heavy flywheel bouncing off them in the box. Later plates are shipped with the studs removed, ready for you to fit them when they arrive. This again caused problems with stripped and crossed threads and bent studs as a result of intervention with mole grips. Some even complained that the studs bent whilst fitting the engine, but that sounds as if the engine and gearbox heights were incorrect and the engine was resting on the studs - that's a rookie mistake and not really any fault of the adaptor plate. Some mention has also been made that the plates do not line up properly and do not sit flush with the gearbox or engine. Again, this sounds like something else going one here, but nevertheless, is something that can be easily checked by test fitting the plate to the gearbox and see if it sits flush.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0034.jpg)


So which is better? The cheaper and more accessible German one, or the Prohibitively Expensive to Ship Kennedy one? The Kennedy one is a more complex design shape and obviously more expensive to produce, so the only thing I could think of was that more effort had been made into the research and reason of this shape, but still unsure exactly how it could make it better than the German one? After some searching on the net, I stumbled across a secondhand Kennedy kit for £300, and believe it or not, was located a mere 1/2 mile from my house !!

So that was the one for me  ;-)up

Did you not consider the Rjes method ? Make a very good install and lots of info on the site. The other Sandrail on the island went this route.
http://rjes.com/

Quote from: fugglededumm on June 11, 2018, 12:04:20 AM
Did you not consider the Rjes method ? Make a very good install and lots of info on the site. The other Sandrail on the island went this route.
http://rjes.com/

Wasn`t an option as I don`t use a Van gearbox - Rails tend to have a bit more wriggle room for such inclusions of physically larger boxes

If you want to retain the Type 1 Beetle gearbox in a Buggy, then an adaptor plate is really the only viable solution

Dave, this is a great read. Looking forward to your thoughts/solution when it comes to cooling.
You should consider a mini business for conversions, I'd be a customer.
Best,
Paul

Thanks Paul - glad someone is enjoying reading it   ;-)up

I have been looking at Alternator Belts. Now that the Power Steering Pump and Air Conditioning Condenser have been removed, I need a much smaller belt to go between the crank pulley and the Alternator.

The belt is known as a flat 5 ribbed Poly V one, and has five small ribs that locate in the grooves of the pulley wheel. With the Alternator adjusted to its mid position on the adjusting bracket, I measured the length of the belt that I would need, and each time I got a slightly different measurement. They were all around the same though, and varied from 700mm to 710mm which was close enough to go shopping for.

Not knowing which sizes were available, my local parts factor guy was very helpful. It was no surprise that he would not have anything suitable off the shelf, but the available sizes and prices seemed to be really random. 697mm = £14 (3 days) / 700mm = £11 (Next Day) / 705mm = £28 (10 days) / 708mm = £14 (3 Days). The 700mm seemed to be the cheapest and most readily available, and I couldn't really justify an extra £17 for another 5mm of belt, when an extra 8mm would have only cost £1 more. Figure that one out?

So I went with this one.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0035.jpg)


And it fitted absolutely perfectly


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0036.jpg)


At some point I may experiment with turning the inlet manifold around 180 degrees as I think that the air filter may foul the buggy bulkhead which would mean relocating the alternator - but for now this will do

Hi Dave,

Great thread and loads of useful details and info.
Going through the Scooby conversion at the moment but going down the bus box and RJES bellhousing route which is throwing up all sorts of interesting challenges.
Looking forward to your next post. ;-)up

Will the bug box take the Subaru power ? I thought the idea of the Bus box was to handle the torque? Physically I don't  see much in it bu I guess it is how tight it is in there.

@JimB if you have not already, take a look at "Road Going Sandrail" over on the Baja Club forum - that's my mate "The General" and he has done exactly the swap you are with the Rjes - twice in fact as he did the 2L then the 2.5L

Dave,
Couple of questions, daft unless you know the answers.
Does an engine swap affect our current historical status.

What about insurance.

Have you thought about the gearbox. Depending on how aggressive you are with it, think I read a standard box may take up to 150 bhp, not sure about torque. Maybe that was in a dream  :-\ :D
Paul

Quote from: fugglededumm on August 02, 2018, 10:11:53 PM
Will the bug box take the Subaru power ? I thought the idea of the Bus box was to handle the torque? Physically I don't  see much in it bu I guess it is how tight it is in there.

@JimB if you have not already, take a look at "Road Going Sandrail" over on the Baja Club forum - that's my mate "The General" and he has done exactly the swap you are with the Rjes - twice in fact as he did the 2L then the 2.5L

Cheers for that will take a look ,could do with a few pointers ;-)up

Quote from: fugglededumm on August 02, 2018, 10:11:53 PM
Will the bug box take the Subaru power ? I thought the idea of the Bus box was to handle the torque?

The Type 1 box is good for around 140bhp, the EJ20 Scooby engine is around 130bhp, so as long as you don`t drop the clutch every time, then you should be ok.

If going Turbo motor, then you must find an alternative to the Type 1 box, but in a Buggy, that is a whole new challenge due to the space we have.

Quote from: pepsi81 on August 02, 2018, 10:35:22 PM
Does an engine swap affect our current historical status.

No. Genuine VW engines are no longer made, the points system was dropped, so engine swapping can be done. Oh, and we also got them to scrap emissions testing on the replacement engines too.

Quote from: pepsi81 on August 02, 2018, 10:35:22 PM
What about insurance.

Its still a kit car, and still has a 2 litre engine - many have said that insurance is unaffected

Thanks for clearing that up ;-)up

Re insurance I went from 40Hp beetle to 140HP MX5 and they put it up.... by about £10  ;-)up

On a Buggy, we have a single fuel pipe that goes from the bottom of the tank to the pump and then to the engine - its a very simple setup.

Not so on the Subaru. Because this is a fuel injected engine, the fuel is pumped from the tank at very high pressure with the fuel injectors taking only what they need to squirt into the engine, and the rest is then pumped back to the fuel tank in a big loop. This does also mean that you have to use special high pressure fuel lines to do this. However, from the engine and through the car, confusingly, there appear to be three fuel lines instead of the expected two.

The three pipes disappear into a void above the tank, but even with the rear diff removed I cannot get my hands up there to see what is going on with this third pipe, or even the other two if I`m honest.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0037.jpg)

Whilst trying to follow the pipes by touch and feel feel where I could, I also found out that they went to this box hanging out the back, and this also had its own little rats nest of pipework too. Wasn`t quite sure what this box was at this stage, or if it would be needed later.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0038.jpg)

Inside the car under the rear seat area are two removable inspection plates for access to the fuel pump that is immersed inside the tank, but even with these removed and a big chunk of floor removed with an air chisel (that was great fun) I still could not determine where all of these pipes were heading.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0039.jpg)

By this time I was getting more than a bit frustrated, so took to the underside with a large grinder and a crowbar, and everything you see there are fuel pipes. Certainly far more than I was expecting. After returning from my 3 hour visit to A&E with only one eye now open, I then tried to fathom out what was going on with all of this.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0040.jpg)

So . . .
The fuel line that went from the pump to the engine was easy to identify, as was the return pipe from the engine back to the pump. Everything else looks to be some form of elaborate tank venting system to prevent vacuum or over pressurization with any excess fumes being vented to the atmosphere by the black box, that seems to be some sort of carbon filter for eliminating the smells. All of this is controlled by that third pipe. I could however be wrong, and won`t really know until I strip down the tank properly and see where that third pipe goes on the engine.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0041.jpg)


If I am right, then that third vent pipe will go to a manifold take off or vacuum point on the engine and all of this pipework and carbon filter can be junked, just so long as the Buggy tank breather is up to the job - and if not . . . .  Well that's for another days investigation.

(https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/sherlock.gif)

I bought myself a new tool the other day, a Draper Cordless Impact driver. I am surprised that I have got this far in messing with mechanics not to have had one of these before, and following a top tip on the Subaru forum to get one of these, I have decided that it is now one of my favorite tools.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0042.jpg)


The first thing you notice underneath the engine is just how big that sump is, but no matter, as there is a good solution for that one coming up later. The next job is to remove those two exhausts, and this is why I bought the new tool. As we all know, exhaust studs rust and corrode, and can be a real bugger to get off. Quite often we will have a big ratchet or spanner on them and apply so much sideways pressure to the stud that it will often bend, break or shear off. That is where this impact wrench comes into its own as it took no more than a few seconds to remove each of the siezed nuts in perfect condition.

You will notice that I have highlighted the lower part of the chassis in yellow. Whilst you are stripping the bits out, you would be well advised to remove the dozen or so bolts holding this lower subframe in place. They call it a "U" or "C-Section" and a quick search on eBay will show that even the rusty ones can fetch 3 figures as long as they are straight and not crash damaged.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0043.jpg)


I kid you not - This exhaust system was removed with every nut and bolt intact in less than five minutes using my new tool. I am stunned. I haven`t tried it yet, but that manifold looks like it may even be reversible so that the exhaust could exit towards the front of the engine, which may be useful to those of you that like the Tri-Mill or Bobcat style exhausts. The smaller bit is the Catalytic Convertor with the two sensors for controlling fuel mixture. Something we will also have to investigate later.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0044.jpg)


Whilst crawling about underneath, I noticed that the Subaru block has two conventional engine mounts, so removed all the visible nuts for these too.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0045.jpg)

The cooling system is without any doubt, going to be the real achilles heel of this project, which is a far cry from seeing just how simple Subaru made it when originally conceived. Two bolts, two hoses and the entire cooling system comes out in one lump. One fan is for Air Conditioning and the other for engine cooling.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0046.jpg)


With such a compact lump, you can see why many of our International friends seem to just hang the radiator at the back of the car and connect it up - but that is not the British way. We must take a perfectly useable system designed by a well funded team of engineers, and come up with something we think will be better on the back of a fag packet. This is what I am hoping to recreate though, hopefully at the front of the car. This does also mean turning the engine hoses through 180 degrees so that they point backwards instead, and that itself will involve a fair bit of head scratching.

Am I missing something. If the fans pull then the hoses are pointing the right way

Quote from: Doon L001 on August 16, 2018, 06:08:55 PM
Am I missing something. If the fans pull then the hoses are pointing the right way

The Radiator as you see it there is correct - its the hoses on the engine that are pointing the wrong way as the radiator will effectively be mounted behind  the engine and not in front of it.

Got any pics of the outlets on the engine?
Someone may spot a bit from another car that could be substituted

Quote from: Doon L001 on August 16, 2018, 08:32:49 PM
Got any pics of the outlets on the engine?
Someone may spot a bit from another car that could be substituted

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0047.jpg)


Some have fabricated new manifolds for this to make the outlets point the other way, and when I strip this engine down I`ll have a look to see what is involved in that

We all know that a Beetle engine can be removed in a matter of minutes with a trolley jack, as it just slides straight out of the back. However, the removal of most of the conventional car engines out there will require some form of crane or hoist to be used as they often have to be lifted out of an enclosed engine bay. And that got me thinking.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0048.jpg)


To be fair, I didn`t think that hard about it because I do not have access to an engine hoist, but I do have a big angle grinder and an ATV Jack. I decided to chop the front off and pull the engine forwards - something I would later regret.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0049.jpg)


With the front chopped off, and some sheets of wood put down under the jack to make sure it would slide easily, I set about trying to jack it up. Unlike the Beetle engines, the underside of the cylinder heads are where the exhaust studs are, so I had to be a bit careful here and decided to jack it up on the bottom of the very rounded sump. It was immediately obvious that the engine mounts would not let it pull forwards and jacking the engine up to clear them meant that it was at such an angle (even with gearbox raised) that I would never be able to separate the engine from the box. The trouble I was facing is that the rear engine mount bolt is obscured by the front cross member and trying to remove the bolts whilst in mid air would mean some very precarious spannering as loss of fingers was a distinct reality. Figuring that I had already been to A&E once over this car, I decided to remove the bolts. With the engine lowered back down to the horizontal again, it still would not budge.

This was where I was glad to have the rounded sump pivoting on the jack as I could really give it some welly by shaking it from side to side. Eventually it came free and it turned out to be one of the small casing alignment studs that had corroded in place. I won`t pretend that it slid out as easily as I was expecting, but very glad to have the smooth wood underneath the trolley wheels. And then I had a problem - a big problem.

Those of you of a certain age will remember the "Weebles" and are probably now humming that catchy tune in your head "Weebles Wobble . . ." Yeah, well, with a nice rounded sump that is as far as I got before the engine decided to fall off the jack - luckily it fell backwards onto the wood and missed all of my toes. Managed to get it back onto anther trolley though, and this time supported it with bricks. Doesn't look like any damage has been done, except for my pride.

The picture below will show the trouble I had getting this out. In order to get a lower center of gravity on the drive train, the bottom of the bell housing has been removed along with a big slot in the front cross member where the flywheel goes.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0050.jpg)


In hindsight, I should have used an engine hoist for this, as I could have pulled the engine out at an angle with all mounts still fitted and it would have been fully supported at all times - it would also have taken less time to do than it has taken to write this bit up !!

I have an engine hoist from machine mart. Not expensive and has paid for itself many times over.

Used it to get engine on bench, assemble a 3 person build concrete BBQ on my own, help shift railway sleepers and makes you look like you mean business when people see it in the garage

Loving these wrte-ups Dave, but I think the thread title should be changed to 'What Could Possibly Go Wrong? - DaveDND Explains' :D
Keep up the good work, and keep your fingers, toes, etc.

Agreed, keep it up Dave, your write ups are excellent

WARNING !  Check Your Nuts !

As a result of VW ownership you have probably got a garage full of various nuts and bolts and if you have got to this stage yourself, then you also now have a floor littered with a pile of bits that once resembled a Subaru. Now is the time to be very careful as all is now not as it may seem.

The VW nuts and bolts we have grown used to are metric. M10 is a 10mm bolt, M8 is an 8mm bolt and so on. We are used to this and if you are in need of a 10mm bolt then you probably rummage around the floor for something that looks the right length and wind it into the hole. If you are not careful, then you can cause all sorts of damage because M10 VW bolts and M10 Subaru bolts have different threads. Subaru has what is known as "Metric Fine" with a lot more threads per inch.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0051.jpg)


If you put a VW bolt (1.5mm threads per inch) into a Subaru hole (1.25mm threads per inch), or vice versa, then to those that were not aware of this, the bolt will initially just seem very tight. The internal threads can easily damage (called cross threading) if a spanner or tools are used when you think it just needs a bit of force. Be careful as an engine can turn into a large pile of scrap very quickly. Separate tubs for VW and Subaru bolts are called for and double check everything before you fit it.

And am I the only one puzzled by the designation of "threads per inch" on a "metric" bolt?  :-\

yes, and whatever you do don't take a fine thread nut off and chuck it in your box of 200 standard ones - unless you want to spend an hour searching for it as they look pretty much identical! - You can guess how I know that...

That's a top tip Dave  ;-)up

Time to take a look at the business end of the Subaru engine. The first thing you will notice is how much larger the flywheel and clutch plates are, but that's about it. The cover plate and flywheel are remarkably similar to the Beetle one we are used to and can be dismantled in exactly the same way.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0052.jpg)


That battery impact wrench I bought earlier made short work of removing the flywheel bolts and managed it in a few seconds without even having to prevent the wheel from turning - I am so impressed with that tool. I have no idea at the moment what those two cover plates are for and will resist the temptation at this stage to take a peek as I will save that for when investigating the engine at a much later stage. What we do need to deal with though, is the thin plate at the bottom of the engine that sat on top of the front cross member mentioned previously.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0053.jpg)


The black plate is held to the engine by two small bolts. Obviously, if you remove this then there will be a big exposed hole at the bottom of the engine that will need to be filled, and as far as I am aware the aluminium angled plate shown came as part of the adaptor plate kit. However, I cannot be certain of this as my parts were a collection of second hand bits, but it should be fairly easy to fabricate one though if you do not have it


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0054.jpg)


This is how the plate is supposed to fit. There are a few gaps around the edges, but lets face it, the original one had a great big hole in it too, so I guess that small gaps are not that critical.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0055.jpg)


The adaptor plate is trial fitted in place and has just indicated something that I was unawares of. Ignoring the obvious four bolts for the VW gearbox, there are three holes on either side used to attach this to the Subaru engine, and right up until this point, I incorrectly assumed that I would be looking for six bolts to use. The bottom 2 studs will of course be removed in place of bolts, but the 2 holes halfway up on either side are for locating pins, not bolts, one of which I will now have to go and recover from the gearbox as its still stuck in there.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0056.jpg)


There are many threads on the net about this conversion, and one of the driving forces behind this write up is that most of the websites I have seen have either lost most of their picture content after the Photobucket fiasco a while back, or fail to include some of the really silly details that can hold you up for quite a while. For instance, had I known that I needed four bolts with special threads rather than the numerous VW ones littering the floor of my garage, then I could have ordered them ready for this bit instead of twiddling my thumbs now - But what size do I order, and when they arrive, what torque settings do I use? Its these little details that can prove quite frustrating and very time consuming to research.

So, I have ordered four engine bolts  M10 x 50mm length x 1.25 pitch of 8.8 strength and according to the Subaru Manual, will be tightened to 36 ft-lbs.

Quote from: Dave DND on August 28, 2018, 02:26:05 PM

If you put a VW bolt (1.5mm threads per inch) into a Subaru hole (1.25mm threads per inch)
And am I the only one puzzled by the designation of "threads per inch" on a "metric" bolt?  :-\

No, because it's not 'threads per inch' - it's pitch spacing. M10 coarse is 1.5mm from thread to thread, fine is 1.25mm, extra fine is 1mm.
M12 is 1.75mm, fine is 1.5mm, EF is 1.25mm, etc, etc.

Most japanese and european engines will use fine pitch fasteners for anything critical, btw, both on cars and bikes.

Quote from: PhillipM on August 29, 2018, 02:48:14 PM

Quote from: Dave DND on August 28, 2018, 02:26:05 PM

If you put a VW bolt (1.5mm threads per inch) into a Subaru hole (1.25mm threads per inch)
And am I the only one puzzled by the designation of "threads per inch" on a "metric" bolt?  :-\

No, because it's not 'threads per inch' - it's pitch spacing. M10 coarse is 1.5mm from thread to thread, fine is 1.25mm, extra fine is 1mm.
M12 is 1.75mm, fine is 1.5mm, EF is 1.25mm, etc, etc.

Most japanese and european engines will use fine pitch fasteners for anything critical, btw, both on cars and bikes.

Learned something new there -  ;-)up ;-)up

Many of the threads I have read speak of problems in getting the engine and box to fit together, and quite a few say that they have really struggled. Nobody has appeared to have posted the reason why this may be though and my initial thoughts were that maybe the clutch was not centered properly as some said that it took a bit more force to tighten all of the bolts up than they were expecting. That really set alarm bells off in my head as that just doesn`t sound right. This is where trial fitting everything together comes into its own as I have fitted the adaptor plate to both engine and gearbox so many times with absolute ease, and it is not until you start trail fitting some "assembled items" and not just individual parts that you can actually see what is going on.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0057.jpg)


Because its not until you fit the engine bolts that you can see where the problem lies. The back of the bolts are pressed hard against the engine mountings. Now this is one of those things I am really glad I came across before trying to finally fit the engine into place, as it is not a problem I would have relished finding at the last minute.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0058.jpg)


I cannot tell you how many botched conversions I have seen now where people just wind the hell out of the lower engine studs so that the nut is forced into a now severely deformed rubber gearbox mount. That puts so much stress into that area when the solution is actually very simple. The holes in the adaptor plate allow you to mark on the rubber where the bolt heads will go, and a few minutes with a die grinder, (or something similar), will result in a small slot on the gearbox mount just large enough for a bolt head to sink into.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0059.jpg)


Making sure that you do not go too deep and only remove as little material as possible. The hole has to be Deep enough for the bolt head and no more.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0060.jpg)


There would be slightly different solutions to this depending on whether you have rubber mounts, Rhino, or solid ones, but at least you have a heads up as to what to look for and solve prior to trying to fit it all together.

That's good work Dave.  ;-)up

Good idea there Dave, with solid mounts you could go straight through, just an unfortunate position with the engine bolts.

Dave,

Found this link and thought of you. Maybe you've seen it, maybe not ;-)up

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=77027

Paul

Not seen that one - really good one too -  ;-)up

Time to look at the flywheels and the first thing you notice is how much larger the Subaru one on the left is, but what you cannot tell is how much lighter it is than the large lump of modified VW flywheel is on the right.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0061.jpg)

The VW flywheel has a large spacer due to it having the thickness of the adaptor plate to contend with, and has the eight holes drilled in the middle so that it can bolt to the Subaru crankshaft which according to the Subaru Manual, are tightened to 58ft-lbs

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0062.jpg)

With the flywheel fitted, its now starting to look a bit more familiar - Almost identical in appearance to those with a 200mm clutch

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0063.jpg)

Something it does mention in the Subaru manual that seemed important, was to make sure that you do not wash these flywheels down with a petrol wash or anything similar due to the sealed bearing in the middle. I must admit that rightly or wrongly, I always put a blob of grease on the end of the gearbox shaft when refitting them just to make sure that everything is lubricated when sliding them back together.

Yes, they're fine to wash down so long as you give the roller bearings a dab of grease - we always convert our flywheels to run a spigot bearing.

There are many different types and strengths of clutch friction plate available, depending on your state of engine tune, but I have opted to keep this one simple and stick with a standard off the shelf 200mm Sachs VW clutch. This is the same as I am currently using on my existing 2 litre T25 engine conversion. I will be upgrading the pressure plate, and more of that in a minute.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0064.jpg)

When fitting the clutch plate, its critical that the splined hole in the middle lines up absolutely perfectly with the small hole in the middle of the flywheel, else when you come to fit the engine to the gearbox, the input shaft will be prevented from going where it is supposed to. We use a clutch aligning tool to do this. The top picture shows the various diameters of tools available and the middle shows the 2 sizes that we will be using. The small one will fit inside the flywheel, and the larger one fits snugly inside the splines of the clutch plate. The bottom picture shows how these are assembled on a shaft and ready for use.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0065.jpg)

With the tool in place, you can now see how the clutch friction plate is centralized in the flywheel prior to fitting on the outer pressure plate

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0066.jpg)

The next bit to go on is the pressure plate, also commonly known as the cover plate

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0067.jpg)

The cover plate is fitted making sure that the friction plate is still perfectly centralized before tightening the bolts up.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0068.jpg)

The eagle eyed amongst you that are not completely bored by my ramblings may have noticed the words STAGE1 on the cover plate.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0069.jpg)

The purpose of the cover plate is to squeeze the friction plate in a sandwich against the flywheel and allow the vehicle to drive. The more powerful the engine, then the greater this pressure needs to be to stop the friction plate from slipping or spinning under hard acceleration. The cover plates come in various higher pressure versions with stiffer springs, called Stages 1, 2 and 3 depending on how much power your engine has. The higher the stage number, the higher the power it will handle, but there is a penalty for this in that the higher the pressure, the stiffer the clutch pedal becomes to press. The torque generated by the Subaru engine is far too much for a standard VW pressure plate to handle and so an uprated one needs to be fitted. Many will recommend going for a Stage 2 clutch with the Subaru conversion (essential if going for a Turbo engine), but as I do not plan to drop the clutch when launching the vehicle, (and I fancy a more comfortable clutch pedal), I have opted for the milder Stage 1 version instead.

We are almost ready to mount the engine onto the gearbox, but before you do, there is one more little modification that needs to be done.

When removing the VW engine, you will be aware of the strange bolt that goes through the starter with the shaped end that wedges up against the side of the motor, preventing it from spinning round when you are tightening the nut on the other end. As our adapter plate has a full set of studs fitted, we will not be using the long bolt and therein lies a problem.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0070.jpg)

There is a small flange on the side of the starter motor that is specially shaped for that bolt, and it will need to be gently ground away so that the nut can freely rotate and be tightened. Nice and easy modification to do, but its one of those annoying ones that could so easily catch you out when you have just wrestled the engine into place and have no means to keep it there.

Just a quick question? If Ive imported an engine from Japan (Nippon), would I have to have the ecu and harness that accompanies the engine so that RJES cheadle could do the conversion?

Quote from: Jonnylea on October 28, 2018, 12:37:48 AM
Just a quick question? If Ive imported an engine from Japan (Nippon), would I have to have the ecu and harness that accompanies the engine so that RJES cheadle could do the conversion?

No idea, probably a question best put to them if you are intending them to do the work  :-\

There seem to be a few subtle differences between engines and sensors, so I would suggest to grab all that you can from the same donor to be on the safe side

Hi
  what an excellent informative thread, it caught my eye as I've come by a Subaru forester on an R plate which is I think 1998
engine looks similar, would anyone know if the information here is relevant to my 2lt engine, I would quite like to use it in a buggy if I can get it wired up our of the car
                                any help would be mucho appreciated

thanks Andy

The nice thing about the Forester is unlike the Impreza, it has probably had an easier life !!

Check for a throttle cable though and not drive by wires for the accelerator

EJ20 2 litre engine was widely used across the range and wiring will be similar (ish)

Dave,

Sent you a YouTube link. It may or may not help. Want to do it but worries me  ;D ;-)up

Saw the link - but you can go a bit later than pre-1996  ;)

Dave,

Sent you a pm  ;-)up

Huge apologies for this thread being so quiet, but those that know me will be aware that the last 12 months have been a bit  . . . . .  Well . . .
Lets just say something I would like to forget and move on from.

Sub-Normal service is nearly being resumed and I can try and get my head around this project again.

First thing to do was have a clear out of unwanted bits. The car initially cost me £600 and I have been breaking it bit by bit and listing on eBay. Surprisingly, the larger items were the hardest to shift and the money actually came from the smaller items such as switches and trim bits that we would all normally forget about. I could have kept going to sell more, but things like doors and wheels I couldn't give away, so bit the bullet and weighed it in as I have had enough of having half a car parked outside.


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0071.jpg)


Didn't do bad on it though - after taking postage and eBay fees into account, I have made around £1400 in parts - that's an £800 profit over what I spent on the car, which has paid for some of the conversion bits - and gave me the engine, loom and wiring for free !!

Nice one Dave . Plus you'll end up with more power than you need. Always a nice feeling. ;-)up

 ;-)up Good to see some action down there

So,
Are all your electrics sorted? Not my forte xx ;D ;D

As far as I am aware, I have all the drawings for the electrics as they were removed, and this should be enough to get the test bench working. If so, then I can start playing with a few things before transferring it over to the Buggy - which will be a while yet.

Next job is get the engine off the floor and onto the gearbox   ;-)up

beetle chassis/ porsche 911 body\ no gearbox but subaru engine stated to be ready to fit straight to aircooled vw g`box.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-turbo-wide-body-kit-car-based-on-beetle/303452883638?hash=item46a7338ab6:g:kvcAAOSw-MpeJJWG

After a major garage clearout, I finally found the engine and my test bed and managed to put the two together at last. The adaptor plate lined up perfectly and it is all held together using the standard 4 mounting bolts that we would normally use for a VW air cooled lump.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0072.jpg)

You can now see just how small and compact the Subaru engine is

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0073.jpg)

Yes, there is a lot of plumbing, and we will deal with all of that in due course, but its really not as daunting as it looks

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0074.jpg)

This should give you a rough idea on the differences in size, and as you can see - its not a lot different at all - if anything its shorter

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0075.jpg)

And not a lot difference width wise either - it will fit in a standard Beetle engine bay - Just !

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0076.jpg)

I have purposely made this engine stand to be the same height as my Buggy, so the crank centre line is at the same height too. This will make it easier to design pipework and exhausts etc etc.

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0077.jpg)

I run a stock (and quite high) ride height on my Buggy, and that sump sticks an awful long way down even for me, so if you were running with lowered suspension, then you may need to think carefully what to do about this. When I can find where i put it, I will show you my solution.

Does it weight significantly more, and have a bit more rear end sag factor too?
(Of course you have a type 4 lump, which I think is a bit heavier than a T1 anyway)

Quote from: Buggybaggy on January 31, 2020, 06:16:09 AM
Does it weight significantly more, and have a bit more rear end sag factor too?
(Of course you have a type 4 lump, which I think is a bit heavier than a T1 anyway)

It certainly weighs more than a stock air cooled lump, and I would say that it feels marginally heavier to move about than my Type 25 lump too, but not by much.

Not many figures on the net, but I recall that I saw somewhere that the Subaru short block was around 110Kg for shipping weight, so by the time you have ancillaries and fluids in there, it would be half that again. Remember though that a lot of bits will also be removed too. Power steering, Air Conditioning and the cast iron manifolds are heavy beyond belief for what they are, and thankfully all gone.

But, engine mounts and gearbox cradles really should be investigated if considering this conversion - the engine in the cradle sits exactly where I was hoping, with no additional sag than when a T25 lump was in there - that's a good start.

All of my engine and gearbox mounts have already been uprated though in anticipation  ;-)up

just thinking another option for sump to ground clearance is to raise the gearbox like the lowriders do. With irs it is easier then a swing axle.

Quote from: snoopy on January 31, 2020, 08:06:08 AM
just thinking another option for sump to ground clearance is to raise the gearbox like the lowriders do. With irs it is easier then a swing axle.

True, but if you were going to relocate the gearbox, then you really should not be considering the EJ20 engine as a conversion. For all the extra work involved in lifting and moving the box, then you would be better off making space to fit a 6 rib bus box in there - and that way you can use the EJ25 Turbo engine which is a lot more powerful.

I have decided not to go down that route as my own ultimate goal is a more reliable engine with parts that are easy to get. The power increase of the EJ20 is more than enough in the Buggy for me and the higher revving engine should give me a bit more speed too with a much smoother delivery.

At least I hope so  :-X

Going the high powered turbo route needs a full frame for rigidity in my book so built to suit the required box.

Quote from: snoopy on January 31, 2020, 08:38:23 PM
Going the high powered turbo route needs a full frame for rigidity in my book so built to suit the required box.

;-)up ;-)up Absolutely - Beetle chassis was never designed to take that much power

I cut and welded a sump to make a 4.3/4"? deep just lower than the oil filter for a friend at the same time I made it wider and longer added some tubes in it to get to the  bolts, this made it stronger we did it all to keep the stock oil capacity over just cutting it off

How amazing  ;-)up

That engine is so small, it seems, I hope all goes well with it  ;-)up

(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0073.jpg)

Its not actually that small Peter - If you look back to the start of the thread to a picture I took of one in Sawmill Jim's Bug, it fills the engine bay about the same as an air cooled one would


(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0001.jpg)

Ha, Yes, thats exactly what I meant, just came out wrong.

The thing is, it fits perfectly size wise, I often think some of the bigger versions hang out
the back a lot and it all looks out of balance, design wise.

This is really nice and neat though and an obvious choice for a more modern upgrade I think,
as you are going to get a big improvement in power and a more modern delivery of it all  :)

Brilliant  ;-)up

Quote from: Dave DND on January 30, 2020, 11:08:02 PM
(http://www.beachbuggy.info/Pics/Scooby/scooby0077.jpg)

Some paint (maybe even the AstraChrome stuff https://www.astrachrome.co.uk (https://www.astrachrome.co.uk))
Maybe some custom ali pulleys and a few other detail bits and the engine won't look half bad

That's the beauty of playing with the Jap stuff - the bling options are limitless !!

Don't know how good they are quality wise though as not ventured down that route just yet

Quote from: Dave DND on February 03, 2020, 10:16:36 PM
That's the beauty of playing with the Jap stuff - the bling options are limitless !!

Don't know how good they are quality wise though as not ventured down that route just yet

Careful with Japanese bling you may end up with a Bosozoku buggy

Quote from: snoopy on February 04, 2020, 03:24:27 PM
Careful with Japanese bling you may end up with a Bosozoku buggy

The way my luck is going it is more likely to be a Coronavirubaru Buggy with Chinese parts  (https://www.dndservices.co.uk/smiley/Mates%20Nurse.gif)

Hi Dave
  did this engine go into something and all work ok ?
ive got a 2lt manual forester on an R reg do you think its likely that your wiring chart will work  if i pull the engine and put it in a buggy ?
or would it make more sense to lift the whole loom out as use it complete

Project is on the back burner still, but I do intend to finish it one day - engine is running on my test rig but never got as far as the Buggy.

Loads of ECU variations, so check numbers on your ecu and wires in locations on my chart to be sure, but if you have the chance of pulling the loom and anything connected to it, I would advise to do so (key barrel and immobilisers) and that way you can always hand the loom over to someone for conversion if unable to do it yourself.

i will strip it over xmas and do as you say and remove the whole loom ign etc
thanks Andy