BIRTH OF A BUGGY CONTINUED

Started by Paul1953, October 10, 2016, 10:28:01 AM

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Paul1953

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Location: Newton Aycliffe, Co Durham
Think I have the 2 ICT`s settled for the current ambient temp up my way.  The main thing I notice is the stiffer accelerator pedal operation. Not by much but it`s noticeable. The good thing is all 4 spark plugs are the colour the electrodes should be so not running rich and not running lean.  ;-)up ;-)up

A couple of things have become obvious...
The distributor mechanism, on mine at least and possibly because of age, needs connection to both vacuum take offs on the carbs. Dropped sizing to 4mm bore tubing from each carb to tee at vacuum diaphragm. (I will give this some time before trying out a decent new distributor that has vacuum advance. Possible a 123 as these have impressed me recently. My distributor is of 1975 origin so it can be forgiven for it`s inherent wear. It could of course be rebuilt but that is quite pricey and it needs a pro who knows what he is doing).

The other is that the air filters, which are of the "oiled variety", change the airflow into each carb detectably so this has to be allowed for during final set up.

I have to be honest here...... Although the 2 ICT`s are a decent alternative to a genuine German Solex PICT 3 the Solex provides the better carburation providing you have an original manifold with a fully clear heat riser connected to the exhaust system. With the correct gaskets and with a working hot air heat source feeding to the carburettor intake airflow.
The ICT`s, once the manifolds are warm, idle well. They pull strongly through the gears and I think I am not imagining it when I say they provide a tad more lively acceleration.

I have run this buggy now for 18 months and although it may be my age I find that I love the gentle driving through the country lanes so peaceful and reminiscent of the days back in early 1970 when my grandfather taught me to drive in a 1962 Vauxhall Victor FB with 3 speed column change gearbox. It`s as though he is sat next to me once again, not saying anything, just a smile on his face.

snoopy

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A single ICT does not have enough air flow and thus vacuum to work the advance fully they need both joining up to get the full advance just like twin 40 webers need the small 28mm venturi to work correctly on a 1600 there is not enough flow for the larger 30 or 32mm ones.

Paul1953

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Location: Newton Aycliffe, Co Durham
To try to answer some questions with a reply in the one place....


What is dwell angle and is it important......

]DWELL ANGLE..... The duration on the distributor lobe that relates to the time the coil is supplied with voltage/current.

IS IT IMPORTANT ?

Sticking my neck out here but if you have a stock air cooled engine then I will say no it`s not.... Think of your ignition coil. This is nothing more than two windings of wire. One inside the other. Inner winding has more turns of wire than outer. So 12volts into the outer causes an induced voltage/current in the inner which is higher than the outer because of the difference in the number of windings. Generally wound to give 15,000 volts plus from inner winding.

Now then you cannot just connect 12 volts to your coil and get 15,000 out... the physics don`t allow it. The coil has to be provided with a pulsed 12 volts. It`s the pulse that causes the voltage in the inner. This gets you to your contact breaker, (points). The points are nothing more than a on off switch. However it`s operation is vital. As the points open and close the voltage is supplied a a square wave. (Look this up if you want to see an image of a square wave).
The points are open and closed by the lobes on the distributor shaft. The points have to open and close as efficiently and as quickly as they can. A square wave.....  Think of the square wave as a sequence of top hat shapes joined together side by side. The critical thing is that the rise of voltage from zero to 12v has to be as instantaneous as possible. The duration at 12 v has to be as precise as possible with the drop from 12v to zero again as precise and as quick as possible. Your points are mechanical and have mechanical limitations of speed etc. Electronic ignition provides are more precise creation of the square wave so it causes the coil to provide more voltage to the plugs.
DWELL...... VW and other manufacturers provided a "points gap" figure to which you would set the gap as precisely as you could using a feeler gauge.
This gap would be between 17 & 18 thousands of an inch. I have an analogue meter from the 70`s which has three ranges, One range RPM. The second range DWELL and for love nor money I cannot remember the third range. (I still prefer these analogue meter movements with a pointer and "parallax error" mirror).
Procedure..... Set points gap per manufacturer setting. Here`s the pain in the arse bit... on most distributors you need the cap off to gain access to the points to adjust them, Cap back on, run engine and see what meter reads, Engine off, cap off, adjust again, cap back on and so on until the meter indicates your are at the recommended Dwell setting required. I have not seen one for a long time but some manufacturer`s provided an access hole in the distributor or cap or both to let you get something in to adjust the points with the engine running. This saved taking the cap off and on repeatedly.

I hear you ask a question..... Why set the points to 17 thou` if you are then going to change this to get the dwell setting as recommended? I cannot answer this  :'( :'(
I didn`t bother with my type 1 engines. I just fit new points and set them and in those day you could do thousands of miles before they needed to be re-adjusted. A condenser would last for years also.  (A condenser is simply a component that minimises sparking at the contact breaker points to slow down wear. This is a critical component and I would buy one from a British electronic outlet so that you get a decent one).

Paul1953

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Location: Newton Aycliffe, Co Durham
More of the learning curve......

I decided to go the electric fuel pump route after finding my original mechanical pump falling to bits....  :'( :'(

My experience prior to this has been mainly with modern "in tank" electric fuel pumps. Way back when I was a lad just about every affordable car, van etc had a lever action mechanical pump. These ran forever without trouble...

After buying a "cube" shaped Facet pump, (chosen due to the low oulet pressure to suit the twin webers), I wondered what it`s performance would be like as it was a "piston" type variety operated via a solenoid. Without giving it much thought I located the pump, cut off relay and post pump filter on the tub wall at the rear tying in with the existing fuel line. (There was already a filter just after the fuel tank so I wasn`t sure if two filters would be an issue. It was in that the Malpassi filter regulator was mounted slightly higher than the pump outlet. I couldn`t maintain fuel pressure, ie flow, at mid to full revs. Bit of toing and froing and it became obvious that the Malpassi needed to be mounted lower than the fuel pump outlet.

Pump creates flow carb gives pressure in line. (as does the Malpassi ).   Realised that my first thought regarding the Facet in that the pump would be ok pushing fuel it would be poor at pulling especially all the way from the tank via the initial filter. Took a look at the BMC/British Leyland forums and sure enough this push rather than pull is a common issue.

Although I am running ok at the moment I wanted to pass this on to anyone on the forum who may be thinking of going the eletric route. (I will be re-locating the pump etc to the tank area shortly). It is quite some years ago that I came across people using a rotary electric pump and the American "Carter" was the go to pump for many. It looks as though Carter still produces a rotary pump but I doubt the current version is the same as it was those years past. Chineseum probably now. I will look into the Carter providing I can get one without paying the pathetic shipping charges the US producers now charge as norm.

Until I can get to changing my system and have first hand experience I would still recomend fitting any solenoid piston pump straight after the tank outlet ensuring it is below bottom of tank level. Boots & braces... angle the pump slightly to ensure outlet is fractionally higher than than the inlet to prevent air cavitation. (2 degrees is the accepted norm).  Important to have a filter prior to the pump inlet. If you have a standard type VW tank outlet a sintered metal filter is available that slips directly into the tank outlet as per VW intended and is all you need. If fitting aftermarket filter again ensure it sits horizontal with outlet fractionally higher than inlet.



snoopy

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The pump will be fine at the back very few cars have bottom exits on normal cars the pump has to suck up and out of the tank which is why rear mounted by the tank but on a beetle it will flow down the pipe to the pump with gravity and up to 9 gallons weight trying to escape you will not be using more than can flow out of the 6mm pipe. The less pressurised system the less chance of a leak.

Manxdavid

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#530
I've recently gone electric (I blame Bob Dylan) using a Facet copy (Chinese I know but I've been using them for years on my wife's golf buggy with no issues) mounted on one of Empi's neat little combined pump mounts/case block offs. I needed a 45 degree / 6mm elbow from the Orient but it sends the hose neatly under the alternator. It's further from the fan belt than it looks.






Filterking is mounted under the rear on the offside set at 2 psi which the engine seems to like. All good so far. Again it's further from the exhaust than it looks in the picture.






"Ah, Beach Buggies, sure, just a quick cheap way of getting a few more years out of a rusty Beetle. You can throw one together in a weekend." anon.

Paul1953

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Buggy Prince
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Location: Newton Aycliffe, Co Durham
I've recently gone electric (I blame Bob Dylan) using a Facet copy

Yep..... I remember it just like it was yesterday. Me and my mates thought Dylan had lost the plot .... then along came Jimi & Led Zepelin and we were hooked on Marshall/Vox amps  ;D

Paul1953

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Buggy Prince
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Location: Newton Aycliffe, Co Durham
Wish I could get my head around the fact that I have been retired 7 years last Feb and I should be sat in the garden in the rain chilling year round     ;D ;D. (It`s now 2 full years of almost continuous rain up here).

Cannot sit still more than 10 minutes....  Finished the latest bit for my buggy and yes it is inspired by the tramp buggy..

Wanted something to fill the gap below the manx dashboard hence this. Wanted it to fit and remove in a couple of minutes just in case I ever manage to lie on my back with legs in the air to get under dashboard once more.

The rev counter is a nos older "programmable" version. Programmes for any range, within reason, on 2 4 6 & 8 cylinder engines and has a facilty to "fine tune" the meter action so that it zero`s and reads rpm very accurately. These meters have been available on ebay for peanuts for some years but older types are becoming scarce. You can get up to date models but they cost a lot  :'( :'(

Need to shout out about the two switches you see.... They are the best I have come across with an incredible set of options. Stainless steel bezel/body/securing nut. Socket included with ten flying leads, (yes you read that right.. ten of them). Each switch can be "normally closed" or "normally open" whichever you want to choose. Each switch has rgb illumination option. (red, green or blue). They have a really small  panel height when fitted and have a long enough threaded length to allow easy fitting to thick fibreglass panels. They, in my, opinion, are not expensive. Trying hard  to convince myself not to swap out my existing rocker switches for these. (These push button switches are iva compliant).  They are obtainable with logo or without. Latching or non latching (momentary).

https://www.carbuilder.com/products/stainless-steel-24mm-diameter-push-button-with-12v-rgb-illumination-2?_pos=88&_sid=2fdcc50d9&_ss=r





Paul1953

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Buggy Prince
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Location: Newton Aycliffe, Co Durham
I have come to realise two things. One brought about by the item in the photo below and the second as a result have having a buggy that I no longer need to spend every available hour all 4 seasons of the year for years on end building away.

The first thing is an understanding of why many people shy away from automotive wiring....  In the photo is the rear view of the fibreglass structure that will fit onto the tunnel and at the top to the manx dashboard lower edge. As I looked at the multitude of wires in front of me, and there are still more to add, I thought to myself that what a lot for two switches, one 12v aux socket, 1 usb socket and a rev counter  ;D  It probably does look daunting but it isn`t it`s simple stuff and just needs a methodical approach. Needed a new reel of leaded solder and almost fell over when I had to pay 28 quid for a small reel
:'( :'( :'(    Did fall over last Tuesday out on my travels and when I went to fish shop for cod and chips and got 25p back out of a tenner. £9.75 for a fish a a few chips..... staggering.

The second thing was that I suspect there are two types of buggy guys out there, especially the ones that have become involved in recent years. There are the people who buy/build a buggy for the fun of running one on the road. Some end up loving it and some realise they were only dreaming and sell them on. The other sector are the guys who get great enjoyment from the build itself, finish the buggy and sell on. I think I lie in the middle of both. Have loved buggies since seeing the original thomas crown affair. First build in 1974 and then working away from home kept me from further involvement. Then in 2016 I bit the bullet and started afresh. Just prior to this an individual said to me "you will never be able to get a buggy through the latest iva requirements with a roll bar among other things". (That was was the 2013 requirements and then along came the 2016 and 2018 versions of requirement). Well that did it..... foolishly maybe but I got up the next day determined to prove to myself  that this guy was wrong. Bit like a "red flag to a bull" maybe ...     ;D ;D

Having finished the build to a point where it got through the iva inspection and re-registration seamlessly I can now look back and have to accept that I probably got at least as much enjoyment building the buggy as I do driving it. (Needless to say it continues to rain today as it has almost daily for 2 years now and I have to admit to a being little bit fed up of getting wet. One thing really does stand out tho` I never would have thought that a buggy would be as resilient as it is when everything gets soaking wet. A manx has its engine really exposed to the elements).

Anyway I have pinched a line from strictly come dancing with a bit of a mod    "keep on buggying"   









Dave DND

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Quote from: Paul1953 on October 20, 2024, 12:58:07 PM
I can now look back and have to accept that I probably got at least as much enjoyment building the buggy as I do driving it.

Pretty much in that camp myself . . . .

. . . . Just as well these days as it as hardly been on the road for a few years now - Next year WILL be different   ;-)up
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Doon L001

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Wish we could get fish and chips under a tenner
Dave - Doon LWB Name "Weather Permitting"
Poco Loco!

Paul1953

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Buggy Prince
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Location: Newton Aycliffe, Co Durham
Doon..... my head just won`t advance alongside the passing of decades. I remember as though it was yesterday evening going to the fish shop for my mam and getting us fish and chips with mountains of scraps for 6 old pence per person. Took them home to our officially condemded home. No hot water supply, just cold water taps. We all sat close to the fire on a winters evening dodging the crackling sparks that shot out from the fireplace and do you know what. Not nostalgia but I would back to 1he 1950`s at the drop of a hat if I could. My parents barely had coppers to spare each week but my brothers and I never gave poverty a thought, How different I see the world today.

Doon L001

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Handful of cold gravel for breakfast beteeen 15 of us, and the youngsters today just won't believe us
Dave - Doon LWB Name "Weather Permitting"
Poco Loco!

Dave DND

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Keeping quiet - Cod and chips down here is £5.70

Hope my local Chippie doesn't see this  :-X
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Doon L001

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That's not much more than our chips cost Dave
I'll be asking for food parcels from you at this rate
Can't only be because we're so far from the sea
Dave - Doon LWB Name "Weather Permitting"
Poco Loco!

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