Morning all,

This is my first buggy build although I have plenty of beetle experience.
Time to build up the brakes

I've been reading plenty on brake set ups and issues with buggies.

I will be running stock later model type 1  drum brakes and a dual MC.

In my parts I have some new 17mm rear cylinders and new 22m front cylinders and a 19mm dual MC.  I may also have a larger bore MC in the cupboard.

I have also read about the 24mm 1303 slave cylinders and also some 19mm slave cylinders.

What is a good set up for a SWB with pretty standard underpinnings?

22mm on the rear, 17mm up front, standard MC?

Or find some 19mm for the front?  Or 24mm on the rear with 19 or 22mm on the front.

Is it worth using a larger MC to require more foot pressure?

I've read about switching the lines at the MC but that seems to be for disc brakes?

Advice appreciated, Matt

TBH over the years I've tried all of those combinations of parts and not found that much difference in any of them, personally I'd just leave it all standard and you'll find it'll be fine, unless you're building to pass IVA test but that's a whole other ball game. The only useful mod would be to fit Type 3 (Fastback etc.) rear brakes but they are getting scarce these days.

Thanks David,  so you wouldn't consider swapping the front and rear slave cylinders over? I'm at the point of fitting them up.

If I'm going to get down the line and I'm locking the front all the time, it would be more hassle to change them around at that point..

As I said I've never found it makes much difference but there are more things that come into play apart from cylinder sizes when it comes to brakes locking up, eg wheel sizes, widths and weights, tyre sizes, tread patterns and rubber compounds, weight distribution (petrol tank in front, full or empty?).

I'm sure that others will have different opinions though.

I found biggest impact on stopping power is soft compound tyres at the front. Ditto for road holding.

I found biggest impact on stopping power is soft compound tyres at the front. Ditto for road holding.

I used to run Colway (as in really good quality) remoulds when they were still available for that very reason.

Years ago Top Gear when they were a proper car show and not a circus act did a braking test on various types of tyre. Remoulds stopped best with the least amount of fuss, followed by budget radials, then heritage brand radials...it's mainly about the rubber compounds used, soft to hard.

185/60 14 Colways on the front, everything else standard for a 1970 chassis, stopped brilliantly!

Thanks all for responses.

I will be running 15" rims, 5.5" up front and 8" rear.

Tyres are yet undecided but I can imagine the front wouldn't be wider than a 185.

Sounds as though I should crack on with a stock set up and tune it down the line.


Matt

Until recently I was running those exact wheel sizes with 275/60 15 rear and 185/65 15 fronts and it stopped and rode brilliantly.

My buggy went thro iva so had to fit discs at front. During build up  pre test trials I spent countless hours ensuring brakes would meet requirements.
One thing became 100% clear.

Bog standard Beetle drum brakes all round with bog standard wheel cylinders on front and rear with a twin brake master cylinder is ALL you need.
A buggy is so light that with this standard braking the wheels will lock solid in an instant. The front of the buggy will dive as it should.
You do not need discs. You do not need anything other than standard sized front and rear cylinders...You do not need residual pressure valves.

I then spent months trying all sorts of camber angles, spring plate settings and so on. As already mentioned it`s the front tyres that make the most notable difference to ride quality. Soft rain tyres the way to go.

Probably the most helpful thing I can say is that you must learn a new way of braking. Very gentle, very light pressure on the brake pedal is essential.
Have fun with the wind blowing in your hair and safe, effective braking.  

I'm old enough to have been taught 'cadence braking', the forerunner of ABS...

    

recently changed my wheels   from  8 and 10 inch steels   with 235 x60   x15 and    31x10x15      to 7 and 10  inch alloys   with 205  and 275 50x15    the  difference  it has made  to how it drives is  out of this world,    the braking   is better the handling    better       and the performance   of the  1641cc  twin carbed motor     has improved  due to its lower stance   and smaller diameter tyres 

That's some good info. I had been considering uping the size of my rear cylinders.  Not had much issues with the brakes, but it does take more effort to stop than a modern car,  But Its not a modern car!

After reading this, i do wonder if disk brakes push the front wheels wider apart and alter the handling?  I may be completely wrong as im more familiar with drum brakes all.round on a beetle

Both CSP & Empi do a "Zero Offset" disc brake conversions. Mine is CSP.   It`s isn`t quite correct that you have zero additional offset as it is about + 4mm. However that is "nit picking".  What you do lose in order to get this "zero" offset are the two disc "splash plates" that you find behind standard disc brake rotors. Handling complaint is something that you see mentioned time and time again. There is no way a buggy can handle like a modern car, nor like a standard vintage car. The gross weight has been screwed up. The Beetle dimensions are lost and so on. You should not have any difficulty braking and very little effort on the pedal is required if all is set up ok and ALL air is out of the system. With regard to handling think of all the production cars you have seen.... Every single one has four wheels of identical diameter. That`s not coincidence

ultimately a disc brake without a servo is less efficient than a drum brake but discs require no adjustment and are safer after driving through water as they displace and dry the water faster, on a light weight buggy or beetle discs are fine but on the 1972 type 2 van we had VW fitted a servo.

That's some good info. I had been considering uping the size of my rear cylinders.  Not had much issues with the brakes, but it does take more effort to stop than a modern car,  But Its not a modern car!

After reading this, i do wonder if disk brakes push the front wheels wider apart and alter the handling?  I may be completely wrong as im more familiar with drum brakes all.round on a beetle
I've got disc's all round on mine and it stops on a six pence. I have no issues with wheel track width, locking up or anything else. I have a dual mc and braided hoses all round.
I had standard drums n it with a 1641 in it without issues but when i put a type 4 lump in the back i decided it needed better brakes. I don't have a servo, don't feel it needs one and the brakes are far better than drums, i don't have to adjust them either. Well worth the effort for in my opinion.
If its a new build swb you'll need to IVA it so maybe you look to see what you need to do to pas that.