Beach Buggy .Info

Beach Buggy Help Zone => Beach Buggy IVA / SVA Help => Topic started by: MMeNDtal on June 01, 2019, 01:26:40 PM

Title: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: MMeNDtal on June 01, 2019, 01:26:40 PM
Sorry if this is a silly question... Just very quickly, if I were to remove the body from a bug and bolt on a tubular frame (no chassis modification), do I still need an IVA? Thanks!
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Manxdavid on June 01, 2019, 01:37:19 PM
No, probably just an inspection or maybe not even that if you get all the numbers matching and take plenty of photos to submit to dvla for change of body type and colour etc.

Feel free to introduce yourself in the Newbies section, we're a friendly bunch!
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: MMeNDtal on June 01, 2019, 01:44:08 PM
Thanks, I'll do that!

I'm up in Shetland, so I'm trying to avoid having to ship it somewhere for a test, if possible!
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Paul1953 on June 01, 2019, 04:03:20 PM
Just seen this post.....  As David says as long as you retain the original structure of the headframe\tunnel and rear  horn section you should not need iva. The issue of iva only arises if you sever the "chassis" structure.. say side to side as in "shortening" for a short wheel base buggy (for example). Be careful with the degree of suspension\steering mods as well. It was pointed out to dvla a long time ago that the transmission. That is to say gearbox..differential.. rear axles be it swing type or other is technically described as a "transaxle" and as such constitutes one item therefore the refurb` of all of this is 1 item refurbed. You will see why this is good to know when you read the guides.

As long as you avoid shortening then at worst you will have to comply with whatever today goes for the "8 point rule". If you are not aware of what this DVLA 8 point rule is google it for full details. This also is subject the the dvla appointed individual`s interpretation. An inspection was once required but I don`t know if this is still the case.

What has helped the guys I have been involved with in the past was V5C and chassis matching vin number. Loads of photo`s. As much in the way of invoices that you can provide and especially a "build diary". (Day to day write up of the build).

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: MMeNDtal on June 01, 2019, 04:58:08 PM
Thanks for that. I did read something about the '8 point rule', but it seemed to say that if you had to go for that inspection, it's basically an IVA?

So, in theory, I can take off the body - keeping the chassis standard - stick a frame on, get it MOT'd and say nothing to the DVLA? Or do I need to inform them and see what they say?

While I'm here, is there a particular model of Beetle I should look for as a better platform to start with?

Thanks for the help!
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Manxdavid on June 01, 2019, 08:44:08 PM
As well as the spine you'll need standard or at least standard style replacement floors. As for model well I suppose whatever you can get hold of, not a 1302 or 1303 Super Beetle though as they have different front suspension. The front of the chassis can be swapped but that would be a chassis mod (officially, but we wouldn't tell!).

Buy a Beetle, strip off the body, fix any chassis rust, bolt whatever frame on that you want. Take snaps of the original car showing licence plates, chassis number, engine number etc. A few of the strip down and build up then some of it 'finished' (if they fever are!) again showing license plates etc. Send snaps and amended V5C along with a covering letter reminding them of their own rules off to dvla and see what they come back with. They'll either send you a replacement V5C with Buggy, Convertible, Roadster or something else suitable on it or have you complete a 'built up vehicle' form and refer you to a company called SGS to have it inspected.
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Manxdavid on June 01, 2019, 09:13:38 PM
As much in the way of invoices that you can provide and especially a "build diary". (Day to day write up of the build).

Hope this helps.

I disagree, you're trying to claim it's standard so invoices for standard replacement parts, brakes, transaxle mounts, whatever not needed. Give them as little as necessary, too much info will confuse them and only serve to flag you up for further interest. You're just rebodying a standard Beetle remember, not putting it thru IVA, nothing like it.
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Manxdavid on June 01, 2019, 09:30:29 PM
Here's the chart for the 8 point rule:

A simple rebody on a chassis with all standard but overhauled components will retain all of its points.

Chassis, monocoque body shell original or new and unmodified 5 points.
Suspension (front and back) original 2 points.
Axles (both) original 2 points.
Transmission original 2 points.
Steering assembly original 2 points.
Engine original 1 point.
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: snoopy on June 01, 2019, 09:31:19 PM
Just send them photos of the beetle complete and body stripped off but including floorpan refurb to show it is unmodified and bog standard on VW axles. Then photos of the frame and fitting again showing standard floorpan. I agree with David to many receipts for standard repairs may confuse the matter as you are not going for an IVA where you need receipts to prove the build specification suits the requirements.
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Paul1953 on June 02, 2019, 08:01:01 AM
Too many receipts... Understand the comments. Just passing on 8 point rule actual past experiences most of which you could now class as "outdated".  ;-)up ;-)up
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: snoopy on June 02, 2019, 08:23:15 AM
It is good news now that they have changed a few standard car V5s to 4X4 utility or convertible on just photographic evidence of the build when new LWB buggies have been built. Thinking they have no one or the recourses to do and inspection like they used to.

Hopefully the shrinking size of the Kit Car show scene possibly down to the ever harder IVA test is not a death knell for the new registration of swb buggies and kit cars
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Manxdavid on June 02, 2019, 09:53:25 AM
The last LWB that I built needed inspection by DVLA engineer but there aren't any of them now. The inspection was no more than a very quick look over, no receipts or build pics asked for. Replacement V5C received the next day with 'Beetle' and 'Saloon' changed to a simple 'Convertible', very easy!

Inspections are now carried out by SGS, they have one engineer for the whole of Scotland and he does this as well as his regular job, not full time so there can be a bit of a wait. I'm not even sure that there is any coverage for 'the islands'!

Again, I'm thinking just enough pics and info to satisfy their rules but not enough to confuse someone who is most likely a part time, short term contract temp worker, not a car guy, possibly not having English as their first language. It will have a good chance of slipping thru.
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: MMeNDtal on June 02, 2019, 02:46:38 PM
Thanks for the advice guys! This is exactly what I was looking for - info in plain English! Gives me hope that it's not too much faff after all!
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Jbug61 on June 02, 2019, 09:52:58 PM
Hi I have just done this myself,built my own tubular frame and bolted it on. You need to keep everything original from the donor beetle and just inform them of body change( unless you are changing colour,number of seats etc). I changed all 3 on v5 and sent it away. I had to fill out some forms stating everything was original with photos,sent it off again,got another reply asking if chassis had been modified and was tubular frame welded to chassis. I confirmed chassis was unaltered and frame was bolted on picking up original holes in chassis,sent it back,got new v5 back couple off weeks later now convertible,colour changed and number of seats.
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Manxdavid on June 02, 2019, 10:42:42 PM
Well done but number of seats?

Since when's that been a thing on V5Cs? None of mine mention seat numbers.
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: MMeNDtal on June 03, 2019, 06:16:55 AM
Hi I have just done this myself,built my own tubular frame and bolted it on. You need to keep everything original from the donor beetle and just inform them of body change( unless you are changing colour,number of seats etc). I changed all 3 on v5 and sent it away. I had to fill out some forms stating everything was original with photos,sent it off again,got another reply asking if chassis had been modified and was tubular frame welded to chassis. I confirmed chassis was unaltered and frame was bolted on picking up original holes in chassis,sent it back,got new v5 back couple off weeks later now convertible,colour changed and number of seats.
That's awesome! Any pictures?
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Jbug61 on June 04, 2019, 06:32:52 PM
That's got me wondering now just checked my other v5's i've got a few for my other buggies and beetles and there is a section for number of seats but none of mine have anything beside them. When I got the docs for the one I've just built it came back with number of seats 4 it's now 2 . I have some photos on my phone I will have to try and post some( haven't done that for a long time!!!!) .
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: Manxdavid on June 04, 2019, 06:38:47 PM
That section is usually reserved for mini busses and the like.
Title: Re: IVA if replacing the original body with tubular frame?
Post by: fugglededumm on July 06, 2019, 05:50:50 PM
Sure I saw somewhere a letter that was Q&A about the 8 point rule from a DVLA Engineer, very detailed and useful - I can't find it on here (might even have been a scan of a letter), anyone else remember it or has better Google Fu ?