Beach Buggy .Info

Beach Buggy Help Zone => Beach Buggy Engine and Exhaust Help => Topic started by: child of the 70s on March 11, 2013, 06:41:25 PM

Title: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: child of the 70s on March 11, 2013, 06:41:25 PM
Took my carb off today to give it a clean and see what the hole is that's letting air in

Anyway , what's this "pin" at the end of my finger?  Not the screw.
It's solid, it's not a pipe or tube. Looks just like a solid peg. Only asking as it had a rubber tube over it with a screw in the end to block it off which I thought was pointless ??
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv206/dan-peyto/image-2_zps1ee45593.jpg)

And .... The hole letting all the air in is just above it. The 2 holes one over the other. The bottom hole is a threaded hole to mount the auto choke. The top hole is meant to be an inlet, the corresponding part on the choke has a rubber grommet in it.
The choke was removed 2 years ago by hi-tech rolling road. I can only assume he blocked it off, and that's since fallen out? 
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: snoopy on March 11, 2013, 07:14:49 PM
what was the carb off?  the hole by the auto choke mtg looks like a missing sealing plug for a gallery drilling and the bottom brass plug may be a feed to a idle diaphragm that slows the throttle return on the stepped cam when cold to prevent stalling that was removed when the choke went.
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 11, 2013, 07:37:17 PM
Hi Dan

The brass pin is some sort of plug that's used to seal the hole, nothing needs to go on it, and pointless as you say... ;-)up

The other wierd pair of holes originally were mounting points for the choke housing, I am not sure
what they did, as I have never 'butchered' a carb in this way.....!

Not really sure why it has all been taken off as the choke can be disabled by either removing
the auto choke plastic housing or disconnecting the actuating arn going 'up' to the choke
pivot bar.

If it was fan housing clearance they were after, then just removing the plastic auto choke body would have achieved that.

All in all....... Its a mess!.

Here is one thats still intact.... If you would like we can transfer these bits when we meet up. I will be left with
a pile of crap, but that's what friend's are for  :) :) :) :D :D :D :D ;-)up

Peter xx

(http://www.manxmaniac.co.uk/albums/Weber32-36/slides/Dan.jpg)
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: child of the 70s on March 11, 2013, 07:58:38 PM
Yeah I never knew why they took it all off.  But since they were the rolling road people I figured they knew better than me.
I have the choke, I will refit it, but leave it disabled.
And I will let you know how it behaves. 

The offer of leaving you with a pile of useless rubbish is appreciated. But this time I have the bits, however if you feel like donating anymore stuff to me, leaving yourself in the lurch then feel free to drop Stella off anytime.   ;-)up
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 11, 2013, 08:09:37 PM
No problem Dan,

If you have the bits, then that's a good idea to refit them, I would be interested
to know what size main jets you have in there too.
The top of the carb needs to come off to find them, they are in the bottom of the float bowl. The size
is engraved either on the top or the side of the head...

And a tip, the little rubber cone shaped block off covers VW use on the Solex work far better than
the rubber hose one you have. Not an essential swap, but makes it neater and is a more reliable plug

Peter
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: child of the 70s on March 11, 2013, 08:22:07 PM
I will whizz the top off tomorrow and have a peak inside.
Just using the off the road time to have a tidy up. So may well change the rubber pipe as you suggest.

( just reread my last post, wasnt saying I thought stella was a pile of rubbish !!)

Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 11, 2013, 08:24:51 PM
Quote
( just reread my last post, wasnt saying I thought stella was a pile of rubbish !!)

Dan...

I know that  ;-)up

Don't be silly  :P
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: child of the 70s on March 11, 2013, 08:50:41 PM
Right .... Just took the top off, you can't beat the smell of petrol on your hands.

Anyways....
In this pic you can see all 4 jets.
The two in the bottom of the float bowl are ...
137 nearest the top of the pic. And 140 below it.


And the 2 not in the float bowl are 165 near the top of the pic, and 160 below it.
(http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv206/dan-peyto/image-2_zps9b665438.jpg)
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 11, 2013, 08:58:08 PM
Thats exactly the jet setup I am running now, upping the 140 to a 142 will give you a better pick up
when you accelerate and the 'kick' as the secondary barrel opens will be more apparent.... ;-)up

Its a lean'ish setup with the 140 and I am running that way for fuel economy, but will be swapping the 142 back in though... ;-)up

Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: child of the 70s on March 11, 2013, 09:01:39 PM
Ooh exciting !! I almost understand !!!
I can see a trip to fishers tomorrow to get a 142 !!!

For fuel economy I will use the Audi  ;-)up
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 11, 2013, 09:14:36 PM
Hopefully will see you at NEWS Dan  ;-)up
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: child of the 70s on March 11, 2013, 09:16:25 PM
Yep I'm all booked for it bud.
:-)
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Dave DND on March 11, 2013, 11:49:51 PM
Peter, is that the same carb that I had a play with for a while ?

If so, then we ought to call it Rebecca, as its certainly doing the rounds !!!

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 12, 2013, 08:16:25 PM
Yup  ;-)up

Its Rebecca...... :D :D :D she's virtually intact, has two throat's and is my spares/experiment source  :)
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: child of the 70s on March 13, 2013, 11:19:18 AM
there is a diaphram in the choke unit, and it lets the air in at the very bottom of the carb, where it bolts to the manifold.
really finding it interesting having a look at what it all does.
Id always assumed the choke only worked on the bi-metal strip unwinding and opening up the butterfly slowly. seems there is a shed load more going on. !
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Doon L004 on March 13, 2013, 12:39:29 PM
Dan

Have you had a look at what primary / secondary idle jets and emulsion tubes are fitted?

There was a thread on the old forum where Peter and I were trying to find out what jetting other single Weber users had.

The link below is a data sheet I have started to put together, it looks like yours has the same baseline jets as mine and Peter's, I got my Weber from Eurocarbs in 2004.

http://www.chris-jordan.org.uk/pdf's/VW%20Weber%20Settings.pdf (http://www.chris-jordan.org.uk/pdf's/VW%20Weber%20Settings.pdf)

Chris
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 13, 2013, 06:55:02 PM
Quote
seems there is a shed load more going on.

Yes I think there is, but it can be much simpler if the whole unit had not been randomly removed in the first place,
leaving an unnoticed, gaping unfilled mounting hole going into the venturi and letting air in....

I have to wonder about the people who did it...

Anyway, all will be fine Dan  ;-)up

Peter

Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: kustom kriss on March 13, 2013, 09:43:55 PM
would the holley 5200 ive got be running the same jets as i believe its basicly the same carb,not checked whats in it just gona see if it starts first before i mess with it
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 13, 2013, 09:53:45 PM
Hi kriss,

I would say that's definitely the wrong way to go about it, as its worth opening the top and taking the jets out
so you have an idea of what's about to happen...

If the jets are too big it will be running rich and backfiring etc, I would have thought it was better to know that
rather than trying to sort things elsewhere.

Its really pretty easy to do and well worth the effort, just my thoughts here though, as if jetting is unknown, specially if they are too small,
the results could be expensive....

Maybe  :) ;-)up
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: kustom kriss on March 13, 2013, 11:13:12 PM
what would be usual jets for 1600
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Doon L004 on March 14, 2013, 06:44:16 AM
what would be usual jets for 1600

Kriss

The link below gives you the usual jetting for a 1600, the column labelled Eurocarb 2004 is the set up most Webers were sold with.

http://www.chris-jordan.org.uk/pdf's/VW%20Weber%20Settings.pdf (http://www.chris-jordan.org.uk/pdf's/VW%20Weber%20Settings.pdf)

Chris
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 14, 2013, 06:10:58 PM
Just to note....

The entries under Aircooled.net with a primary of 130 and a secondary of 180, I think would be way out,
though can work.

The 130 is definitely too lean when driving on a low throttle, but the 180 would/may balance that out when you step on it!....

I would prefer to jet so that the mixture was ideal over a far wider range and have a fully under control throttle/engine response at all times.

The 137/142 combo does just that  ;-)up

Peter
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Doon L004 on March 14, 2013, 10:17:24 PM
Peter

I have tried the Aircooled.net settings and you are spot on, it may work in the US with plenty of heat but not in the UK on a cold winters day.

I have run my new 1600cc engine in using the standard 137/140 combo, but intend to try the Eurocarbs 2012 set up with the different idle jets and emulsion tubes to see what the difference is. If anybody on the forum has recently purchased a Weber 32/36 from Eurocarbs I would be interested in hearing how they have got on with their latest set-up.

Chris
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 15, 2013, 05:07:36 PM
Ahh, Yes thanks Chris

I forgot to mention that, as its important to find out in what part of the world some of these details originate, and
that one was glaring at me! :D :D :D :D

The setups will work, but its all about air pressure and temperature that's prevailing at the time.

So far for me, the 137/142 route has been the best yet for my 1600 twin port, but subtle differences in engine setup and internal parts
will have an effect on the final choice for others.

What ever though, it just great to see these posts that can stimulate and help, as its not as hard
as it first seems to be.. And is well within the capabilities of anyone in this forum  ;-)up

Peter
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: kustom kriss on March 15, 2013, 07:07:23 PM
this could get awkward with chris ;-)up and kriss :D
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Doon L004 on March 15, 2013, 10:38:52 PM
there is a diaphram in the choke unit, and it lets the air in at the very bottom of the carb, where it bolts to the manifold.
really finding it interesting having a look at what it all does.
Id always assumed the choke only worked on the bi-metal strip unwinding and opening up the butterfly slowly. seems there is a shed load more going on. !

A friend of mine sent me the link below which explains how Weber's work, you are right there is shed load's of other things going on.

http://www.webercarburatori.com/?p=handbook (http://www.webercarburatori.com/?p=handbook)

Chris
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 17, 2013, 11:25:21 AM
Thats a nice link Chris

It shows the importance of the float bowl level relative to the outlying air correction jets etc...

Mmmm there is indeed a lot going on, mostly it can be easily ensured to be happening, by just
checking all the settings are done properly.

Hopefully whan Dan gets the missing parts back on, things will start to improve and the carb will
setup as it should  ;-)up

Peter
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: kustom kriss on March 17, 2013, 05:06:09 PM
ive had the carb off today and the jets as follow

primary main jet 130    air corrector 170

secondary main jet 132    air corrector 175

cant see any markings on the idle jets

the pump discharge nozzle 50

cant get emulsion tubes out    how do you get out
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: Peter on March 17, 2013, 06:14:03 PM
Quote
ive had the carb off today and the jets as follow

primary main jet 130    air corrector 170

secondary main jet 132    air corrector 175

cant see any markings on the idle jets

the pump discharge nozzle 50

Sometimes its a case of 'knowing' what engine this came off, as the 32/36 is
a mainstream carb used by car manufacturers world wide, the only bit thats been specially made in out little area of VW buggy's is
the manifold.

But on the strength of these figures I would say its jetted for a smaller engine, ie a 1300 or slightly less. If you run it on
your 1600, it could be that its far too lean across the entire range, as the jets
are BOTH smaller than has been shown with set ups so far.

If you do try it, be very aware of the heat that a lean mixture will generate, very fast...

The emulsion tubes just pull out, from memory, from beneath the air correctors......, they may have corroded in place though!

Peter
Title: Re: What's this then Peter ?
Post by: kustom kriss on March 17, 2013, 08:38:50 PM
working just down the road from a carb ctr in nottingham tommorow gona nip in see if i can pick up some jets