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November 21, 2019, 06:45:55 AM

BIRTH OF A BUGGY CONTINUED

This is a discussion for the topic BIRTH OF A BUGGY CONTINUED on the board Members Buggies.

Author Topic: BIRTH OF A BUGGY CONTINUED  (Read 38950 times)

this user is offline snoopy

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Reply #315 on: October 23, 2019, 08:25:21 PM
observation side/tail are better fused left and right so if a tail does go you still have one working  on front and rear.
 Why complicate it with secondary relays on the headlamps just wire the fog unit to 56a and b on the main relay, a headlamp relay will take the power for 2 X 55/60W bulbs and your primary relay does only with ignition on headlamps.
you also need a high beam warning light.



this user is offline Dave DND

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Reply #316 on: October 24, 2019, 07:54:25 AM
Why complicate it with secondary relays . . . . .

Actually I agree with the extra relays and a higher level of complication, but for a different reason.

Having previously spending many years in Vehicle Security (at a considerably higher level than your average alarm fitter) what has always concerned me is the simplicity of the older generation of classic cars (and Buggy's) and just how easy the systems are to hotwire and bypass. The more wires, relays and levels of confusion you can thrown in there, to me, the better.

Coming on great though and fascinated following this thread   
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this user is offline snoopy

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Reply #317 on: October 24, 2019, 10:03:12 AM
Complicated on antitheft is one thing but a failure on the road of a lighting circuit at night is harder to sort and the chance of a failure increases with complexity more so if you have chineseum relays.

A simple piece of wire 2 ft long and a bump start will take any buggy with a standardish ignition system no matter what you have under the dash hot wiring is easy unless you go to an ignition control box that needs another feed to work.
Anti theft for a buggy needs to be mechanical, luckily they are not targeted the by criminal fraternity as pool cars.


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #318 on: October 24, 2019, 02:45:09 PM
Hi  Keith.... I can answer your question...... "does it need to be this complicated?".....  The answer is no of course but I have a view upon the question and I hope I can put it in words........

A beach buggy is quite unique and as such an individual vehicle. So I believe there are two basic reasons for ownership. One is that whereby an individual is introduced to a buggy and is hooked forever and there are those that "dream buggy" and find the actual ownership not quite the dream and so the buggy gets passed on. The first category guys then I believe to be "real" individuals themselves otherwise they would never have got hooked in the first place. I have seen comments on the forum such as "preference to build a buggy out of bits and pieces sourced from all over and built in a weekend". That is absolutely fine by me. I see it like this..... That is fine.... Also can I use Ludicruz as an example. He has spent many, many years creating his buggy. Spending lots of money on the way I guess and engineering his dream of what a buggy should be for him. The result speaks a thousand words. I simply see that either end of this spectrum and all stages in between are all of equal merit for each and every indivual effort. What I post on my thread is "Paul`s dream".... a buggy that will go through the latest iva test procedure, a buggy that whilst compromised from the original Manx buggy will look very close to an original and the mods will take some looking to find and see. It is purely my choice to use the described things\methods you see in the thread.

I do agree when you say that the simpler something is the less there is to go wrong but there is nothing wrong going a step further surely..  Chineseum quality relays are what is commonly available and it is what I am using until post iva and on the road. At that point I will be replacing with original nos Hella relays. They are readily available and may cost a little more but the build quality is as good as you are going to get.

I think what I am trying to say here is that there is a place for all individual tastes\views etc...  ;-)up ;-)up


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #319 on: October 24, 2019, 03:04:02 PM
I overlooked mention of the speedo bulb....  It is omiited from my original schematic on purpose as I am using dual intensity illumination at the switch but I should have explained this. IVA is very specific about switch identification. Switch must have identification. You can have a switch and an appropriate separate indicator light. The switch should have a lens of the proscribed colour with the prescribed logo on the lens. You can use dual intensity at the switch for purpose of night i\d and circuit live. I now know that this has been thought of and used by others. The more usual option is a separate lamp indicator per switch. Again appropriate colour and logo. So.... the speedo bulb as found in a VW speedo.... You would need to remove the bezel to gain access to the "dial" face in order to place the appropriate logos next to the main beam and indicator gels. (I have had my speedo apart to recondition it and forgot this bit so it`s a job to do probably on another speedo I have).

Twin fusing at the rear.......... I have this for two reasons. One as Keith says to allow one light to be operative should the other default to dud. The other is that aftermarket led lights are sealed and come with bare wire ended cables. I have a fuse box located at the rear of buggy also so that i can fuse individually and have the means to teminate light cables correctly and have the means to "un-plug" should I ever have cause to need to remove a light. Somewhere along my timeline I will try to create a full schematic but this is not easy for me. I cannot get my head around CAD programmes so am using Microsoft Publisher which is a laborious way to do it. I also am limited to A4 page size.



this user is offline snoopy

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Reply #320 on: October 24, 2019, 08:10:07 PM
Quote from: Paul1953

I think what I am trying to say here is that there is a place for all individual tastes\views etc...  ;-)up ;-)up
[/quote

very true Paul no 2 are the same just like the owners. ;-)up


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #321 on: November 12, 2019, 02:27:24 PM
Here is an introduction to the "timer relay"....

Not needed on a buggy I know, unless you go the heated windscreen route as I have.   The timer relay can be used with any suitable load that requires a timed on period. (or off if you can think of anything requiring this).    There are timer relays and then decent timer relays. The versions with a little variable resistor that you can adjust through the relay casing with a tiny screwdriver are generally useless over any prolonged period of use. I use Nagares, an oem supplier and their relays can be found on many cars etc. They vary with load capability and timer duration. The Nagares TLT/5-12 as you can see in the photo has a load capacity of 20 amps and the timer duration is stated at 10 minutes. It`s accuracy is not too far out and the one on my buggy goes off after 12 minutes. This relay will cost between 15 and 20 but in this instance you really do only get what you pay for

Sticking with my idea of dual brightness illumination at the switch, low brightnesss for night lighting and full brightness to indicate Demist On gave me an issue that I did expect to come across. Back EMF when relay switched to on and pin 5 became live. Solved with the old school method of including a 12v 500ma Zener diode in the wire from pin 5 back to the momentary switch led positive. Diode anode, (the end with the coloured band), to the switch side.
(You can use switches with incadescent bulbs but they are quite dim when resistor fitted in line with feed).   Having not kept up to date when electronics went digital and solid state I don`t know if all diodes are of zener variety now. The first diodes were "slow in action" and so did  not take over from rectifier valves until the zener was introduced.

The relay has 5 terminals.  Terminal 1 is linked to terminal 4 via a "momentary" switch. The relay operates when this switch is depressed and released which sends a pulse to the relay. The first pulse forces the relay into action. A second pulse switches it off..  Terminal 5 is the 12 volt out to the "load", the demist screen in this case. Terminal 2 is the relay ground. Terminal 3 is a 12 volt, fused, ignition switched feed. Also to terminal 4 is the ACC 12v in. (Should be fused also).  ACC = accessories and the terminal remains live. The momentary switch is there to ensure you cannot operate the screen demist without the ignition on.

Only for dual brightness at switch illumination.....  Wire from the relay terminal that is live with ignition on, (no 5), a wire back to the positive side of the switch led with the diode fitted in-line. To same switch illumination terminal a wire with an in-line resistor from dash illumination or sidelight switch on output terminal.