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September 21, 2018, 11:03:33 PM

BIRTH OF A BUGGY CONTINUED

This is a discussion for the topic BIRTH OF A BUGGY CONTINUED on the board Members Buggies.

Author Topic: BIRTH OF A BUGGY CONTINUED  (Read 21907 times)

this user is offline Roadrunner

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Reply #15 on: October 13, 2016, 10:37:59 AM
(I call these spot welds but obviously they are not. I don`t know if there is a standard name but they are just repeated local welds by MIG.

I believe as you are filling the holds you drilled in the tunnel flange, these are plug welds.

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this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #16 on: October 13, 2016, 11:02:44 AM
An aquanintance shortend pans to fit a gp tub but spent hours on the measuring, cuts and fitment but all the pressings in the pan lined up after as did the fitment around the rear curves of the tunnel..
Hi Snoopy.. Ah.. this is the way to go then.  On mine I could see why a chevron cut is better than a straight side to side cut. With mine I ended up with quite a mismatch at the point where the pan rises up at the inner rear next to the tunnel. the back "half" was quite a bit higher than the front when brought together so a bit of wacking with a hammer was needed to make them meet. If you were preparing a concours pan then this might be considered "a bit messy". The pressings don`t match on mine also and had to be tweaked when welding.


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #17 on: October 13, 2016, 11:19:45 AM
(I call these spot welds but obviously they are not. I don`t know if there is a standard name but they are just repeated local welds by MIG.

I believe as you are filling the holds you drilled in the tunnel flange, these are plug welds.

[/font]  Yep you got it in 1  ;-)up  I know my problem...  Lost most of my brain cells having my teens in the 60`s . Drink more tea now than Newcastle Brown Ale  ;-)(-;


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #18 on: October 14, 2016, 03:00:44 PM
Here is the tool I knocked up in half an hour to assist with pans shortening. The venerable go\no-go gauge.. The sketch should give you a fair idea of the principle. Along with this, before cutting the pan, use a two beam laser level. (50 quid and it can be used for all sorts of things in the home etc). (Need to use this in the garage as outside it is not easy to see the lines). Line up a laser "line" from the centre of the hole in the top of the admirals hat along the tunnel to the back end. Use two lengths of masking tape to let you use an aerosol paint spray to make a line. Again use the laser level to create a line running from the point where the accelerator cable tube exits the tunnel on the nearside front and this, if the chassis is also level, passes along the tunel to the back, around the curve and across the centre of the hole in the cross member. Do thee same with the tape and paint a line. (You can do this on the offside as well if you want). Then cut the chassis, shorten it, bring the two halves together. Have a long spirit level on the tunnel as well for extra check that both halves are level. When you are happy with this part of alignment use the gauge to check as you weld by swinging the back bit from one side horn to the other and if you are all lined up the tapered point of the bolt will fit in the horn neatly on both sides. If it doesn`t you are out of alignment side to side. All sounds a bit of a chew but in operation it`s a cinch. Just be sure to check with the gauge frequently throughout welding. (Hence the term go\no go


« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 10:57:02 AM by Paul1953 »


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Reply #19 on: October 15, 2016, 02:17:09 PM
8) 8) Here we go the good stuff ;-)up  First.. Rear of chassis where the clutch and throttle cable tubes come out. Look into tunnel and locate where both tubes are welded to the support. Remove the welds so that both tubes are free. Next.. About an inch behind the handbrake support position is where to star marking out for a cut. I used a 2 beam laser level to determine where I was going to paint a thin line along the side of the tunnel, also another line front to back at the top of the tunnel. Centre of the hole on tope of the admirals hat is "dead centre". The line along the side I took from the rear centre of the tube at front of tunnel where the accel` cable comes out to meet the pedal. A horizontal line from here, back over and around the curve along the back support passes right across the centre of the large circular hole in the cross member. Again a good way to aid alignment in the vertical plane as well as horizontal. I used masking tape to create a slim line along which I could aerosol paint a bright line. Marked my first side to side "chevron line across pan, up tunnel, over tunnel. back down and across second pan in the same way. Cut a bit of wood next exactly same length as the amount to shorten pan, (in my case 14, 1\2"). Used this as a guide when marking second cut line. (Used the laser level again to get straight lines across pan etc.  There are a number of tools you can choose for cutting. I used a sabre saw and a 1mm cutting wheel. If you use a sabre saw or a jigsaw take care. Wear eye protection and a air filter. A cutting wheel creates great amounts of tiny metal particles that you don`t want in eyes or lungs. Believe me when I say I was sweeping stuff I couldn`t see from the garage floor etc into piles. When sawing across pans use a medium saw speed and try to keep progress constant. Blades snag easily, especially if you let the sheet metal bounce. Take good care when cutting the tunnel as there are a number of tubes that are close to the inner surface of the tunnel. 2 x handbrake tubes. 2 x heater vent cables. Clutch, throttle and fuel also. Take a look at the photo to see how I first cut out the tunnel section before cutting the pans. You will see the maize of tubes. The fuel line is secured to a metal tab on the nearside of the tunnel just above the floor pan roughly down from handbrake pivot point. Easily seen. I drilled this spot weld out. Having chosen this route, and with hindsight, and also that old mate of mine IVA I have some additional thoughts regarding chassis cutting that would have simplified things for me further down the line. Just in case my 60 minutes log in time is running out I will post these thoughts separately.


« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 11:01:45 AM by Paul1953 »


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #20 on: October 15, 2016, 02:45:13 PM
Here we have the chassis well and truly severed. The alignment lines can be seen a bit oversprayed to protect bare edges but still visible. After a bit of hindsight thought a few comments which may be worth considering.. I had planned to retain the original fuel line as it was in perfect condition. Had the two halves back together before I realised that IVA requires that a fuel line be metal, which it was, but also that the line be secured every 300mm which it wasn`t. Also IVA requires that the examiner can confirm these securing points, no exception.  However photographs will be considered as proof of fixing. (In reality this may be down to interpretation by each individual inspector). If you want to comply and use a fuel line down the tunnel I guess the best way to do this and get photographs would be to remove the centre underside closure plate which I think I am right in saying is spot welded in place. This would also help with access to another thing..
The handbrake cable tubes must be secured in the same position that they are originally. The hand brake won`t work if the tubes are free to float about. (The tubes would probably be fine if securely supported on the tunnel of the back half as this is coming right up and butting to the front. I havn`t tried this though). Hand brake tubes are flared out over at handbrake end so that the cables don`t fray or get caught up. This is easy to copy on your newly cut ends by using a hammer and something tapered which fits to pipe end. When bringing the two halves together I didn`t have access to the hanger just aft of handbrake mount in order to tack both tubes in position and secure them. Could have got in with the bottom closer off. To overcome this I cut two small sections of tunnel out so that the MIG nozzle could get in.


« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 01:25:55 PM by Paul1953 »


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #21 on: October 15, 2016, 02:48:28 PM
An aquanintance shortend pans to fit a gp tub but spent hours on the measuring, cuts and fitment but all the pressings in the pan lined up after as did the fitment around the rear curves of the tunnel..
Snoopy.. Have had a real long hard look at my pans. Just out of interest and in case I ever do another one from scratch do you have a photograph of how this was achieved?  ;-)up


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Reply #22 on: October 15, 2016, 03:09:29 PM
Photo of rear half... Notice how the handbrake tubes are well to the sides of the tunnel, travel in over, then straighten up to line up, both parallel to align with the support below handbrake mounting. Here is my way..
Measure how far forward into the front half the tubes need to go to be welded in place. Add a little to allow for the belling out of tube ends you are going to do. Remember the gear change rod travels past these tubes to the gearbox connector and it will need to clear any change of position you make. Again if the bottom closer panel was off the re-shaping of the handbrake tubes would be easier and you would have access to see how well your shortened change rod lined up. (More on rod shortening etc later). I found re-arranging the line the two handbrake tubes follow in order for the cut ends to be parallel but still the correct distance apart I used a 10mm pipe bending spring and a " blow torch" for heating. Bit at a time until all is right.  Heat up a tube to red heat with the spring in the tube. (Bit of string in the spring end loop to pull it out while it is also hot). Bit of force and effort needed here but persevere and the tubes will be of correct length and line up and clear rod etc.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 01:27:09 PM by Paul1953 »


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Reply #23 on: October 15, 2016, 03:14:13 PM
I like to use a ratchet type chain or rope winch to pull the two halves of the tunnel together and hold while tack welding.

Also never belive what the makers or other folks say when it comes to how much to take out of the chassis. I always like to measure the body as fibreglass is a bugger for growing, shrinking and generally moving around over the years.

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Reply #24 on: October 15, 2016, 03:59:03 PM
An aquanintance shortend pans to fit a gp tub but spent hours on the measuring, cuts and fitment but all the pressings in the pan lined up after as did the fitment around the rear curves of the tunnel..
Snoopy.. Have had a real long hard look at my pans. Just out of interest and in case I ever do another one from scratch do you have a photograph of how this was achieved?  ;-)up

I do not have any photos must be about 5 years ago now, the buggy was not built just stored awaiting the owner to get some cash together. I will ask about photos though.


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Reply #25 on: October 16, 2016, 08:10:15 AM
When the pans were off on my last chassis I seperated the bottom plate from the tunnel by drilling the welds. I then shortened the bottom plate at the napoleons hat end so there was no join in the middle of the bottom plate. I also ran a new fuel line and put the brake line inside the tunnel. Well I say 'I', I didn't actually do any of the welding!
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this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #26 on: October 16, 2016, 01:07:42 PM
I like to use a ratchet type chain or rope winch to pull the two halves of the tunnel together and hold while tack welding.

Also never belive what the makers or other folks say when it comes to how much to take out of the chassis. I always like to measure the body as fibreglass is a bugger for growing, shrinking and generally moving around over the years.
Everybody out there who plan a buggy build and shortening a pan.. David is 100% correct. My build is quite ahead of my posts. I don`t know why really but I registered with this brilliant site and took a while to start posting. Think I was a little in awe of how to post photo`s etc. Anyway my body is now on the chassis but what a chew and carry on and, in my opinion, the fit could be better from scratch. The 14, 1\2" is not an ideal figure. It is in reality variable. I have a tiny garage , a small shed and not much else in the way of space. For this reason I didn`t order or get the body until I had the chassis back together in 1 piece. Do get your body before shortening as you will then get a much better fit with less hassle than I had. Just don`t expect a body to go straight on... It won`t,


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #27 on: October 16, 2016, 01:24:00 PM
A bit of a change from floor pan stuff. Gearbox coming to bit`s for rebuild. Clean as much crap of from the casing as you can before dismantling, especially if you plan removing the masses of surface oxidation. See the gear poking out from the true part of the gear box into the final drive bit? the serrated securing "nut" is often "loose" after decades of running. Make sure this is really tight when you rebuild. I am old enough to remember having a drive of other people`s new beetles and the gearchange was tight, not at sloppy and all over the place, even reverse. Not as precise as modern stuff but you did not have to even think about where the gears were. So have this nut tight. Before you re-fit the dogs leg and nose cone push\pull all three selectors in and out to ensure they move freely. Will feel tough to do just use a bit of muscle. When you are happy all is well make sure the U shaped sockets on the end where the dogs leg lever goes are all lined up in a row. This is Neutral position. Fit the dogs leg and nosecone. The reproduction bush and seal are really poor but that`s all we have got. Make sure you put a bit of oil on this seal before pushing cone on. Have a few photo`s somewhere of the lever line up so will dig them out.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 01:39:34 PM by Paul1953 »


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #28 on: October 16, 2016, 01:32:34 PM
When the pans were off on my last chassis I seperated the bottom plate from the tunnel by drilling the welds. I then shortened the bottom plate at the napoleons hat end so there was no join in the middle of the bottom plate. I also ran a new fuel line and put the brake line inside the tunnel. Well I say 'I', I didn't actually do any of the welding!
Hi.. Yes I think I would do this if I were to have another go. Am really, really trying to not think of another. Am nearly bankrupt now  ;D


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #29 on: October 16, 2016, 01:35:15 PM
Final drive out for rebuild. Keep workplace spotless for this sort of thing. Ha Ha look at my bench

« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 01:42:40 PM by Paul1953 »