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March 07, 2021, 02:55:05 AM

copper head gaskets! Perhaps one for Peter

This is a discussion for the topic copper head gaskets! Perhaps one for Peter on the board Beach Buggy Engine and Exhaust Help.

Author Topic: copper head gaskets! Perhaps one for Peter  (Read 1614 times)

this user is offline farmer rob

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on: February 23, 2013, 07:04:45 PM
Hi Guys, I need some 2mm head gaskets for my new type 4 engine build with 96mm bore's. I have not as yet managed to buy any and I think I will have to make some!!!.

 So my question is..... Which grade of copper sheet would be best suited for head gaskets?  Unless of cause someone knows where I could get a set of the above from!.

Cheers Rob


this user is offline Shaggy

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Reply #1 on: February 23, 2013, 09:14:51 PM
as far as I know these are a steel shim and are available from http://www.laperformance.co.uk
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this user is offline Peter

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Reply #2 on: February 23, 2013, 09:16:07 PM
Hi Rob,

I will have a look at this, my guess would be, that it should be a harder grade but that it should have been 'annealed'.

Will pop back and let you know what I find

Peter
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this user is offline Peter

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Reply #3 on: February 23, 2013, 09:29:19 PM
Well, I can't find a lot that targets specific grades, annealing softens the otherwise
harder copper sheet, and I think the softness is important here, as
it must deform slightly to ensure a good seal.

Will keep looking, there seem to be many available from places like 'Scat',
but all have a maximum size of 94mm

Peter
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this user is offline farmer rob

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Reply #4 on: February 23, 2013, 10:22:36 PM
Hi Peter, thanks for your help. The cylinder heads I managed to get had been fly-cut a lot and need approx 3mm of shims and gaskets to set my deck height. I do not think it would be a good idea to shim the amount at the cylinder bases with how far the pistons go down. So thought if I could get or make 2mm copper head gaskets I could use the ordinary base gaskets to fine tune the deck height. However there seem to be a few different grades available, so wondered which might be best as they would be quite thick.

 I have found out that copper is best as it seals best when annealed and also it evens out cylinder too cylinder head temperatures well.

Many thanks, Rob


this user is offline Peter

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Reply #5 on: February 24, 2013, 05:40:14 AM
Yes,

Copper will heat up faster than Aluminium alloys, so the transfer will be better.

However, it maybe worth noting that there could be a hot spot always present at the copper seal due to this.

When I am machining copper, the rate at which it heats up is MUCH MUCH faster and I have to make allowances for that.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 05:41:50 AM by Peter »
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this user is offline snoopy

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Reply #6 on: February 24, 2013, 09:17:52 AM
Hi Rob have you asked folks like http://www.geneberg.com/contact_us.php they are helpful if you send a question in and may have already had this problem.


this user is offline Manxdavid

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Reply #7 on: February 24, 2013, 11:18:54 AM
For all things Type 4 the first port of call has got to be Stateside Tuning...

http://www.statesidetuning.co.uk/mainpage.htm

or John Maher's done a fair few as well...

http://johnmaherracing.com/

I've found with both that you're best phoning rather than emailing though.
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this user is offline ben_w

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Reply #8 on: February 24, 2013, 12:27:31 PM


6 Pots...stuff your bhp, torque is king

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this user is offline farmer rob

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Reply #9 on: February 24, 2013, 12:45:58 PM
Thanks for the replies guy's. I have done a fair bit of ringing round but it seems most after market one's, even for T1 engines only go up to 60 thou and 94mm. I rang stateside tuning!. The chap was asking lots of questions but not giving many answers. He kept saying I should machine dishes in the the pistons but I think that is a bit costly and would only add a few cc's of head volume and would still need more than a standard head gasket.

 I'm sure some American sites would sell them but I am a bit pee'd of with waiting for bit's for this engine rebuild, so think I will make my own!. With searching copper grades, I am thinking of going with the C106 grade which seems easy to get your hands on. Unless someone advises against it lol.

Cheers Rob

Oh cheers Ben, just seen your post and had a quick look but it seems they only do them up to 60thou as well, Bugger!

Are you over later?


this user is offline ben_w

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Reply #10 on: February 24, 2013, 12:52:34 PM
Rob,

Probably not. Feel completely rubbish today. Poorly rubbish, not hungover rubbish. Dont wanna give it to you so im going to stay at home and drink tea and feel sorry for my self!

Probs drop over next weekend if thats ok?


6 Pots...stuff your bhp, torque is king

Green Sidewinder with a 6 pot lump


this user is offline farmer rob

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Reply #11 on: February 24, 2013, 01:02:16 PM
That is OK Ben, It is pretty raw outside, not good when your unwell!. I am about most times, bring all the bit's!. It then helps you understand why it got taken out in the first place

Catch you later Rob


this user is offline Doon L001

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Reply #12 on: March 05, 2013, 04:57:31 PM
Might be a daft idea (I am sure Peter will tell me why) but is there a reason why you cant use 2 gaskets to get the required thickness?

They are the same material so will expand and contract at the same rate, they are softish so will mate well.

Now stepping back and waiting to find out why it wont work  :-[

Dave
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this user is offline Manxdavid

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Reply #13 on: March 05, 2013, 05:04:47 PM
...or maybe take a skim off the tops of the pistons, I've done this on old diesels (Fordson tractors IIRC) to set deck heights/bumper clearances in days gone by.
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this user is offline farmer rob

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Reply #14 on: March 05, 2013, 07:56:34 PM
Hi Dave Doon L001

 Yeah, 2 head gaskets are not a good idea; your just asking for trouble but I am going for one 2mm head gasket and two or three 0.3mm base gaskets.

Hi Manx David, the B+P I have got are AA ones and I do not think they are thick enough on the crowns to machine any off. Which is a shame as it would cure the problem.

 Anyway I have got hold of some copper sheet, 2mm, 106 grade; so I am having a go at making the head gaskets required. It has to be the slowest engine build I've done because I found one of the cylinders was damaged, so I thought I'd get a standard 2.0L cylinder bored out to suit but found these are slightly taller, so had to get a pair rebored to try and keep a side level.

 I ordered a cam shaft and lifters in November, they came in in two weeks; I thought great! till I found they had sent hydraulic lifters instead of solid. They sent them back for exchange but the suppliers had none and had to order from the USA and I still have not received them. Well at least it is not a type 1 engine, so I could rebuild the bottom end and sort my deck heights out. You never know, by the time I have the heads on; the lifters might be here  ;)

Cheers guys, Rob