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August 07, 2020, 07:16:06 PM

Ignition and indicator 'box' too long...

This is a discussion for the topic Ignition and indicator 'box' too long... on the board Beach Buggy Body and Chassis Help.

Author Topic: Ignition and indicator 'box' too long...  (Read 619 times)

this user is offline Dave DND

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Reply #15 on: July 16, 2020, 11:50:25 AM
The collapsible section is pretty useless on a buggy anyway as the front beam/frame head are solid, ie not mounted in a crumple zone, and most of not all people mount the top of the column solidly to a dash frame too.

You have now got me thinking how that would ever work on an old Beetle as well ?   :-\
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this user is offline Manxdavid

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Reply #16 on: July 16, 2020, 12:31:32 PM
The collapsible section is pretty useless on a buggy anyway as the front beam/frame head are solid, ie not mounted in a crumple zone, and most of not all people mount the top of the column solidly to a dash frame too.

You have now got me thinking how that would ever work on an old Beetle as well ?   :-\

That's why the mounting holes are slotted in the top housing, so that the wheel and column can collapse into the dash. Designed when seatbelts were either not compulsory or crap design. Some iirc had a more simple shear system built into the dash bracket.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vw-Classic-Beetle-Steering-Column-Top-Housing/223673487527?hash=item3413fa90a7:g:JDIAAOSw0O9dhMFn
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 12:54:07 PM by Manxdavid »
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"Ah, Beach Buggies, sure, just a quick cheap way of getting a few more years out of a rusty Beetle. You can throw one together in a weekend." anon.


this user is offline Roadrunner

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Reply #17 on: July 16, 2020, 02:17:30 PM
I switched to an early style solid column, i'd rather be taken out by the steering wheel in a front end collision, rather than a ruptured fuel tank covering me in burning petrol.


this user is offline Manxdavid

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Reply #18 on: July 16, 2020, 02:52:21 PM
I switched to an early style solid column, i'd rather be taken out by the steering wheel in a front end collision, rather than a ruptured fuel tank covering me in burning petrol.

Good point, the collapsible bit does run very close to the tank, plus early ones are so much neater.



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"Ah, Beach Buggies, sure, just a quick cheap way of getting a few more years out of a rusty Beetle. You can throw one together in a weekend." anon.


this user is online snoopy

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Reply #19 on: July 16, 2020, 06:15:07 PM
on a beetle the extra plate fitted to the top of  the collapsible section is larger than the hole in the bulkhead so the bulkhead stops it moving up therefore it crumples but most beetles are that rusty or repaired with thinner panels  there is slim chance of it working safety wise 2universal joints are the way to go but then we all have dangerous metal steering wheels.


this user is offline Luddite

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Reply #20 on: July 17, 2020, 08:35:25 AM
I used to be both a crashworthiness Design Engineer and Homologation engineer for a global car company; the collapsible column wasn't introduced by VW to add safety to the Beetle, but to comply with the newly-introduced (1968 iirc) US crashworthiness regulation FMVSS 203 so they could continue to sell vehicles in America.  It's designed to minimise chest injury to an unbelted / lap belted occupant by allowing the steering wheel to travel down a bit when whacked by a forward-moving driver.  As has been said, with the different construction of a buggy and the different relation of wheel position to the occupant's chest, it's not going to perform the same in a buggy. And of course we all wear proper belts now. From a frontal impact perspective, there isn't going to be a whole lot of difference between collapsible and fixed, the steering wheel's going to travel back to meet you whatever.
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is...


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #21 on: July 17, 2020, 08:46:08 AM
I wonder if there is a very simple solution to your issue that would need no shortening or change of central shaft....  Just a thought this.....

The shroud you have does not extend down the outer column tube sufficiently...

So this shroud could be extended using fibreglass so that it would reach the dashboard and possibly cover most, if not all of the hole in the dashboard.   I often use thin flexible cardboard to create basic shapes. The two edges butted up and held in place with masking tape. Then the cardboard coated with the polyester resin to make it rigid. To this additional glass fibre tissue to give the required thickness to the structure. Surface\s smoothed and painted.

Is this remotely feasible in your case?   Would need to be a slip fit as it will need to be removable should you wish to gain access to wiring plugs. Would need a hole in it at the locality of the allen clamp screw.

Just a thought and maybe a cuckoo one at that   ;D ;D


this user is offline neilpop

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Reply #22 on: July 17, 2020, 10:37:27 AM
Thanks Paul,

I had thought about how to extend it but couldn't see a good fit between the shroud and the fibre glass, your idea is certainly one I could give a go, thanks for thinking of it. The wirings not in place yet, there's a new loom to go in so I have options.

I think my plan is to see how the new shroud fits, (I bought the one from ebay that was shown further up in this thread) and if that doesn't look as I'd hoped I think I'll get the collapsable section taken out and welded up.

Not being a welder makes these kinds of things probably more of a challenge than they should be, it's becoming more tempting to learn been looking at TIG vs MIG, although I'm not convinced that I want the steering to be the first thing I'd have to rely on my newly acquired skills to weld!  :o


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #23 on: July 17, 2020, 02:23:26 PM
I agree ... This is definately not an thing to weld without confidence that you have a good , full penetration, weld.

Mig verses Tig.   Mig welding brought a means for people to self teach the welding process with some ease. There is not a lot of welding classes available that don`t require signing up to a full course at a cost of hundreds of pounds. Mig is the way to go.

Tig welding really is an art to get it right. It is used for stainless steel fabrication as well as other metals where an extremely neat weld finish is required. I cannot get tig welding up to the level many can. It`s the getting one hand to wobble the filler rod in a C shaped pattern while the other hand advances the electrode along that I find lets me down. Both of my hands want to do the same motion.. ;D ;D

Another thing with Tig is that to get a good, full penetration, can involve introducing argon behind the piece you are welding. I am pretty sure if you u tube this you will see what I mean.   

You will be surprised how many welders are out there if you ask in person. Honestly... the tyre\servicing places often farm out their welding needs and will know someone locally. 


this user is offline neilpop

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Reply #24 on: July 17, 2020, 02:42:45 PM
Thanks again Paul, I'll stick to my plan then.

Try the new shroud, if that doesn't look as I'd hope get the collapsable part taken out and welded up.

Appreciate your guidance on the welding too, I know a couple of guys that may be able to help.


Cheers,

Neil


this user is offline Flags

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Reply #25 on: July 17, 2020, 02:49:47 PM
Easy fix with the early column surround and the shortening way that David suggests (same way as I did mine) if the hole in the dash is already too big to get a neat job where the column passes through you could always fit a finishing plate.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 02:52:07 PM by Flags »


this user is offline neilpop

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Reply #26 on: July 17, 2020, 07:49:19 PM
Yes that’s the kind of finish I was hoping for Flags, I was thinking of a finishing plate like that too depending upon how the shroud looks.

Both yours and David’s look super tidy - that’s the goal.  ;-)up