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March 28, 2020, 05:51:36 PM

STANDARD BEETLE WASH\WIPE

This is a discussion for the topic STANDARD BEETLE WASH\WIPE on the board Beach Buggy Electrical Help.

Author Topic: STANDARD BEETLE WASH\WIPE  (Read 234 times)

this user is offline Paul1953

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on: February 12, 2020, 04:59:55 PM
As I am about to update my build thread I thought I would post this issue with regard to a standard vw wash\wipe switch just in case anyone  at some time used the thread data for their own use.

Initially I had planned to use 2 individual old school style rocker switches for 2 speed wiper and washer operation with a lucas wiper motor. This was all worked out and bench tested and it worked with a single change over relay. Keith, snoopy, mentioned he used the steering column style switches for convenince to hand.. This sort of stuck in my mind and I have just completed bench testing of a standard beetle wash wipe switch and connected it to the buggy wiring temporarily to double check operation. Foolishly I managed to create a short whilst it was operating. I can sort this easily but for anyone changing out to this style of switch take real good care. Experience has taught me to bench check every switch terminal for every possible connection variable via continuity via multimeter and still I got caught out.

I purchased the late model switch combo advertised as the better quality and so paid a few pounds for it and it is now scrap. I am not criticising the build quality... just the use of modern materials. (What happened to old school heavy brass contacts and Bakelite bodies... as near as dam bullet proof as possible to be). The repo indicator & wash wipe switch bodies are nylon, or similar soft resin, and will not stand up to a short for more than a few seconds. My switch smoked and was disconnected as quickly as I could. Lever arm rigid. Took it apart to find out why. Nylon structure local to brass contacts had melted and contacts all out of position. No way at all to remedy this.

This was my problem but here are some pointers so that you can know what to watch for over and above not shorting out due to negligence.

The donor beeetle had no indicator, wash\wipe switching in place. All bits and pieces hung all over the place so I have no reference as to original fitting. See the two photos as to the switch type I obtained and was oping to use. (2nd one on order now  ;D). It has the usual "j" plug connection with 6 of the 8 "holes" populated with wires. Has the 2 washer water tubes plus washer pump motor connections. (Washer tubes to be redundant in my case). The six wires have colours that differ from the standard VW loom wiring colours which doesn`t help the novice.

The blue wire provides +12v for the whole system. There is an oddity that I cannot explain until I see a correct wiring diagram as I am at the moment baffled by the fact that the little brass hoop that the switch securing screw will go through and is a ground connects directly to the washer switch moving contact. This would mean that all would appear to work until it was in place on the column. Once screwed to the column the +12v would be grounded the moment the ignition came on and the fuse would blow. (Hoping here that someone will respond saying I have mis-interpreted the interaction of the various contacts but I am blowed if I can see how). Initially I thought the brass tag was one piece with the brass angled upright I have marked X.  Upon opening the switch up I was wrong. They are two separate contacts but kept in continuity via a contact moved by the arm throughout all switching positions. i,e permanently grounded. Note the two red arrows. One to the blue wire contact, (+12v). The other to the moving contact which connects to the blue wire and in its normaal position contacts point X.

The switch worked as I would expect it to with a off position, moving through intermittent to slow speed and finally to fast speed however to get this to work without blowing a fuse the angle at X would have to be bent down to break contact with the moving contact. (Contact moves up-over for wash function).

Ah well another sleepless night as I ponder just what I am missing here. It is as though the blue wire wants to be -12v, (ie negative).




this user is offline snoopy

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Reply #1 on: February 12, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
Is your wiper motor compatible with the switch. The GP build 2  years ago had unknown years parts on it but the switch was not compatible with the motor so I ended up removing one of the brass fingers in the motor and bridging that supply to the next brass finger as it kept blowing a fuse during rotation on part of the self park set up. Worked a treat afterwards though but took a bit of head scratching until I stripped the wiper motor cover off and saw how it worked.


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #2 on: February 15, 2020, 12:18:40 PM
Hi   Keith...  Have had time to delve into this.   you are correct.....  The Lucas wiper motor is not initially compatible with the wash\wipe switch I had.
For the moment I am going back to the reproduction lucas style rocker switches for wash & wipe with the single change over type relay.

The reason for this is I must have this build ready for iva inspection as soon as poss now. (Cannot believe how long this build has stretched on). The wiring is in place as well as motor relay etc so a quick simple fix.

No disrespect to others here but real care is needed if you are not fitting like for like as found in the donor beetle or matching bits for the motor etc and your electrical experience is limited. Took the switch to bits and what a lot of springs there is inside. The contacts are minimal quality and the wire crimping to the contacts is less than heavy duty. The bodies are nylon and just a little temperature is all that is needed to melt this. There was minimal melting but this is sufficient to allow the contact segments to displace and lots of smoke also.

I will re-visit the was\wipe column option some time in the future.



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Reply #3 on: February 15, 2020, 01:30:29 PM
lucas switches connect the motor live to the park switch in the motor when the switch is in the off position.


this user is offline Paul1953

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Reply #4 on: February 18, 2020, 08:18:27 AM
Thats correct Kieth...  Non ignition switched live, referred to most commonly as "ACC 1" or "ACC2".  Have this running in place without wiper arms at the moment. I realise now why old school cars mounted the lucas motor , bowden drive and wiper arm gearboxes in the engine bay side... Quite a noisy system. Not that this is an issue in a buggy... ;D