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March 06, 2021, 02:44:58 PM

IVA / SVA Overview

This is a discussion for the topic IVA / SVA Overview on the board Beach Buggy IVA / SVA Help.

Author Topic: IVA / SVA Overview  (Read 5513 times)

this user is offline HUDGE BUGGY

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Reply #15 on: February 20, 2018, 08:38:57 PM
Found this on a FaceAche page, and thought it might be of interest maybe


Bob Pike DfT - Road Vehicles Improving Air Quality and Safety - Consultation Response
Below is the Air Quality Consultation Document link, and all links to respond to it as well, the main bulk is a guideline for your response if you need it, covering why their document is totally unworkable and the points they need to consider before implementation.

This consultation closes on Friday 2nd March!!!!!!

DfT -Road Vehicles Improving Air Quality and Safety – Consultation
https://www.gov.uk/.../road-vehicles-improving-air...

DfT -Road Vehicles Improving Air Quality and Safety - Consultation Response
Answer Question 10 as NO,detailing reasons why as below

The notified list does not contain any clubs to do with kit cars which will be majorly impacted but the Road Safety Markings Association have? This does not seem to be a “consultation” but a “notice of intent”because of its timescale.
As much as the major companies would wish us to renew our car every 3-5 years, kit cars and particularly radically built vehicles mostly reuse second hand parts, by recycling like this it is far more environmentally friendly than buying new parts off the shelf which creates pollution in manufacture.
The timescale given in your document is completely unworkable as many hobbyists (even some kit car companies) take years to complete a project.
Mentioned in 4.7 is that vehicle convertors can carry outworks and it would be prohibitively expensive to upgrade the engine, as long as he maintains the existing emissions on the engine, should this not also apply directly to kit cars if not more so due to expense?
In 7.8 the car or van categorisation, it is stated that you are taking a “common sense” approach if you cannot determine the prime function of a vehicle. Why is a similar approach not being used for a person building a classic style kit car and their engine choice?
4.10
Reconstructed classic cars do not require IVA?
The sensible route is for the installed engine to have an age appropriate emission test as it currently is now. Which is the same as all the classic and historic vehicles currently on the road with the same engines.
This is the only sensible and workable legislation to have.
4.11
Most kit cars are built to a style of decades past(Caterham, Cobra), which by definition includes the drivetrain, this stops this stone dead.
Kit cars based on a VW Beetle with an original engine will never ever pass the proposed emission tests, so again this stops stone dead.
This also unworkable as the emission level limits will only ever get tighter which means if you are taking a number of years to build you will permanently be “chasing your tail” to meet the “current” level in place at the time of test.
4.12
Reconstructed classic cars do not require IVA?
Define a “broadly unchanged” appearance, as early separate chassis cars when coach built were vastly different on the same chassis, which is the basis for a vehicles identity.
Engine capacity, is that within type or as the individual vehicle left the factory?

4.13
A 25 year old engine as suggested will not meet current emission levels
The cost of using an engine from the last 25 years which does meet current emission levels will be out of reach for many due to cost and a lack of understanding of ECU’s, we are engineers not computer programmers.
Many more modern engines with ECU’s will not function without being in their original chassis or without the airbag and ABS systems in place, which cannot be in place for a BIVA test. There are no workable alternative ECU’s available.

Consultation Replies to :-

Email to: ivs.consult@dft.gsi.gov.uk

Or post to:-
Robert Lloyd-Smith
Zone 1/33,Great Minster House
33Horseferry Road
LONDON
SW1P 4DR

Also, extra responses can be forwarded to :-
Head of DfT - Chris Grayling
chris.grayling.mp@parliament.uk
Other members of DfT
https://www.gov.uk/g…/organisations/department-for-transport
Postal Address for DfT :-
Department for Transport, Great Minster House, 33 Horseferry Road, London, SW1P4DR
Manage

Road vehicles: improving air quality and safety - GOV.UK
gov.uk





Bob Pike The above is a response from the NSRA to provide a basis for letters/emails we all need to send to the appropriate Government departments..
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this user is offline Jaysons Dad

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Reply #16 on: February 20, 2018, 09:46:27 PM
The uk gov hyperlink don't work  :(
Definitions -
Understeer  - Hitting the fence with the front of the car
Oversteer    - Hitting the fence with the rear of the car
Horsepower - How fast you hit the fence
Torque        - How far you take the fence with you


this user is offline HUDGE BUGGY

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Reply #17 on: February 21, 2018, 08:15:56 AM
I am so sorry about that, I copied and pasted into google and it does, so try this one    https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/road-vehicles-improving-air-quality-and-safety
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this user is offline Ralphypants

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Reply #18 on: January 21, 2019, 11:48:33 PM
Evening all, my V5 says “vw convertible”  it was a 1972 1500 beetle. It is Tax exempt but is it MOT exempt? I don’t think it is as it has been modified, but others say it is. I’d have it checked regardless.
Any ideas?

Colin.


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Reply #19 on: January 22, 2019, 07:44:39 AM
1972 registration date is mot exempt by the printed date.


this user is offline Dave DND

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Reply #20 on: January 22, 2019, 08:56:32 AM
1972 registration date is mot exempt by the printed date.

Incorrect - that rule does not apply as our Vehicles have been Radically Altered in their Visual Appearance

The Registration date on your V5c DOES NOT entitle you to MOT Exemption Status

MOT Exemption is awarded upon the DATE THE BUGGY WAS BUILT and NOT the age of the Donor Chassis

Full details can be found here
http://www.beachbuggy.info/index.php/topic,429.msg120024.html#msg120024
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this user is offline Manxdavid

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Reply #21 on: January 22, 2019, 08:57:31 AM
Evening all, my V5 says “vw convertible”  it was a 1972 1500 beetle. It is Tax exempt but is it MOT exempt? I don’t think it is as it has been modified, but others say it is. I’d have it checked regardless.
Any ideas?

Colin.

If its a buggy then l only be mot exempt if it was turned into a buggy 30 or more years ago and has not been substantially changed since then.
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this user is offline Dave DND

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Reply #22 on: January 22, 2019, 09:00:32 AM
Apologies for the double post, but this is important


Now that our Club has been Officially Recognized and my name is on the FBHVC Register of experts, I am now getting quite a few referral calls from them as well as DVSA with regards to issues arising with Beach Buggies. There currently seems to be a lot of confusion over the MOT Exemption Status especially with regard to Beach Buggies being advertised for sale on eBay and various Websites.

So lets try and make this very clear for all to understand.



RULES:     These will Differ from Classic Cars as our Vehicles have been Radically Altered in their Visual Appearance


The AGE of your Chassis DOES NOT entitle you to MOT Exemption Status

The Registration date on your V5c DOES NOT entitle you to MOT Exemption Status

Tax Exemption DOES NOT entitle you to MOT Exemption Status

MOT Exemption is awarded upon the DATE THE BUGGY WAS BUILT and NOT the age of the Donor Chassis

If your Buggy was built less than 30 years ago then you DO NOT QUALIFY for MOT Exemption Status

If DVLA/DVSA were NOTIFIED of Change from Beetle to a Buggy less than 30 years ago then you DO NOT QUALIFY for MOT Exemption Status

If your Buggy was built over 30 years ago AND DVLA WERE NOTIFIED of such - Then you "MAY" Qualify as MOT exempt
(Subject to other other rules and regulations that may apply)




Common FAQ's:

My 1966 Buggy is classed as a Historic Vehicle with Free Tax, so its Automatically a "VHI" and MOT exempt, Right?
Wrong. The 30 year exemption ruling is from the date when the DVLA were notified of it being transformed into a Buggy, not the age related year of the donor chassis. If, for instance, your chassis is 1966, but it was converted into a Buggy in 2001, then whilst you may still benefit from free tax, you do not have enough "Buggy years" under your belt to qualify for MOT exemption. This is one of the DVSA quirks as the tax relates to the age of the chassis, yet the MOT exemption relates to the date that DVLA/DVSA were notified of the conversion. This ruling is different for us as unlike the majority of Classic Cars out there, ours have been Radically and Visually Altered - ie: they no longer look like a VW Beetle.


How do I prove when my Buggy was Registered as Converted?
If you can find a clear and concise way of answering this one, then please let me know. In the meantime, I can only offer some general advice based on my experiences so far. This requires some considerable homework. You may need to approach DVLA for a history report on your vehicle, and that again comes with a few caveats. As a general guide, those that were correctly registered and converted prior to the mid 1990`s may have "Convertible" on the Registration Document. Those that have Beach Buggy or the name of a Buggy, such as GP or DOON will probably have been registered post 1998, more often than not with a date specified on the V5. Those that have BEETLE or SALOON registered are unlikely to be considered for MOT exemption as DVSA will class these as not having been correctly registered as a Buggy, unless you have inspection documentation or provenance that can prove otherwise. There will be exceptions to this, and remember that this is just a guide towards MOT Exemption, and not about Vehicle Registration.


My Buggy is Short Wheelbase, Can it still be MOT Exempt?
Sometimes. Chassis length is not taken into consideration providing that any alterations were completed over 30 years ago and that it has the correct wording on the V5. My understanding is that a Short Wheelbase with "Beetle" or "Saloon" on the V5 is NOT EXEMPT and will still require an MOT to be carried out. Anything else on the V5 should be ok. (see above)


I`m not sure my Buggy would go through an MOT, so can I register it as exempt and not have to worry about it?
Definitely not. You car must always be in a fully roadworthy and safe condition. If you think that there is something that will fail an MOT, then it still needs fixing before you can use it on the road. If you get stopped by the side of the road in an un-roadworthy vehicle, then you could face some very serious consequences.


Do I need to find a Special Buggy Friendly MOT Station?
Strictly speaking, No, as any MOT station should be able to test your vehicle although there is no harm in looking for an MOT station that is use to dealing with Classic Cars rather than modern Repmobiles. Some of the younger generation of inspectors may not be initially aware of what they need to test and what is exempt from testing due to the age of the Buggy, and a certain amount of educating them may be required. Its actually quite difficult to fail a Buggy as there is precious little to test, and most of the allotted time will be spent twiddling their thumbs and drinking tea. It is always a good idea to strike up a good rapport with your MOT station though, as it can make life a lot easier!


My MOT tester reckons my 1979 Buggy on a 1966 Pan should be classed as a reconstructed classic.
No. This is an indication of a tester that does not understand the rules and what they have said is actually nothing to do with them. If the registration document indicates that you have a 1966 vehicle, then it is tested as such. This is one of the rare times that I would advise going to another MOT station, as there is no point in making life difficult with an uneducated jobsworth before its even gone on the ramps for inspection.


Do I just let the MOT run out and continue driving as Exempt?
Absolutely not. MOT exemption has to be applied for by means of an annual self declaration of at the time of applying for your vehicle tax. If you are caught driving with an EXPIRED MOT, then this is treated very seriously with the usual result of the car being impounded and often destroyed.


Will my Insurance be OK if I am MOT exempt?
Have a word with your Insurers. A few will allow continued cover, although most of them will have imposed severe restrictions against mileage, personal injury and international travel, and I am aware of quite a few that will no longer provide any cover whatsoever if the vehicle does not have a current MOT.



At the end of the day, if for no other reason, why not just MOT it for peace of mind?
Or are you really that arrogant to think that £30~£40 a year for a second set of professional eyes to carefully inspect your vehicle for faults is not worth it?

Nuff Said.
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this user is offline Manxdavid

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Reply #23 on: January 22, 2019, 09:03:27 AM
If I remember correctly yours is a short wheelbase JAS buggy? The Jas kit wasn't introduced until 1999 but if when they built it they re-bodied an existing buggy (an old GP or whatever) then personally I wouldn't consider an almost like-for-like body swap to be a substantial change.
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"Ah, Beach Buggies, sure, just a quick cheap way of getting a few more years out of a rusty Beetle. You can throw one together in a weekend." anon.


this user is offline Dave DND

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Reply #24 on: January 22, 2019, 09:05:33 AM
If I remember correctly yours is a short wheelbase JAS buggy? The Jas kit wasn't introduced until 1999 but if when they built it they re-bodied an existing buggy (an old GP or whatever) then personally I wouldn't consider an almost like-for-like body swap to be a substantial change.

Correct - the terms "Radical change in its visual appearance" is the transformation from Beetle to Buggy. I cannot see that a re-body from Buggy to Buggy would throw up any issues.
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Reply #25 on: January 22, 2019, 01:55:47 PM
A minefield it may be but if it says 72 as a convertible and has nothing on the V5 saying body type changed after 1988 etc it will be mot exempt as it has not changed in 30 years as said you are allowed a rebody that does not radically change the apperance it is still a buggy.
If the chassis has been modified in the last 30 years it looses exemption and done past june 1996 it should have had an SVA or IVA test with supporting documentation. Unfortunately some swb builders never bothered so if caught up with now or in the future the buggy will have to pass a much stricter test than it was back then when they have their V5 withdrawn.

Pre 1996 it is a problem caused by a poor registration system and local offices applying descriptions and rules differently hopefully there is now a set standard.


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Reply #26 on: January 22, 2019, 03:09:01 PM
The only real problem is finding out when the description on the V5 was changed, assuming the car didn't start out as a convertible (the chassis number would show this). Most of the time the only ones who know would be DVLA and they are very reticent re giving out information these days citing data protection etc.
Photos printed on genuine ILFORD® paper.

"Ah, Beach Buggies, sure, just a quick cheap way of getting a few more years out of a rusty Beetle. You can throw one together in a weekend." anon.


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Reply #27 on: January 22, 2019, 07:01:56 PM
That is the problem some V5 can show a major change as a statement on the bottom, anything undated or showing no changes you can only go by what you have and apply for exemption if you want it, but if DVLA know better date wise they should contact the owner and withdraw the exemption with the reason.

 Their database will be vague and full of different standards from all the regional offices that finally closed in 2013 plus the Post Offices input, no idea when they went computerised but the new database started 2013 however you can pretty well gaurantee the old paperwork system would not have had every piece of documented info uploaded onto the previous systems and mistakes will have been made.

1986 they issued me a V5 showing Customs restricted vehicle not to be issued without contacting HM Revenue and Customs as it belonged to an American airforce person who had not paid tax on it.


this user is offline Ralphypants

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Reply #28 on: January 22, 2019, 10:11:12 PM
Well that’s that cleared up then🤔
Many thanks.


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Reply #29 on: January 19, 2021, 07:19:08 PM
Well that’s that cleared up then🤔
Many thanks.

 ;D ;D As far as i've read if it was a buggy and reg'd as such for 30+ years then MOT exempt.
If not then it isn't.
If the chassis has been substantially modified i.e. cut then not exempt.
As far as i've read for body change the new body should not be a major change from the original i.e. a beetle shape and hard top.
Now as far as i can see even Stevie Wonder would be able to see that a beach buggy open top body shell is nothing like a beetle saloon body so how can that not be a substantial modification?
Changing the body will void the MOT exemption as i was told by the kit cat man at DVLA.
Mine is LWB so not chassis mod but is not MOT exempt as it was not build 30+ years ago and V5 changed to beach buggy in 2004 so mine will be exempt in 24 years.
How anyone can seriously say and think that taking a steel 2 door saloon body off a chassis and bolting a fibreglass open top non beetle looking body to it and say it's not substantially modified and mot exempt must have rocks in their head.
For £45 why don't people just get it done?